Life outside Earth?

[Che]

Daily, people are living out their short lives. Maybe they accomplish something, maybe they take out their garbage, maybe they have an argument with a neighbor. Boring. They watch the news at 6 o clock and find out how many people got shot or robbed or whatever else. Which celebrity did something that normal human beings do everyday but got caught doing it today?

Are we wasting our time here?

It seems like people just live out their lives on a micro scale. Shouldn't we be thinking bigger, harder, further? What is out there? Can we figure it out? Why are we here? What made us?

Any of those questions are more important than any question you can show me in your text message log from this week.

Why must we destroy and kill and conquer rather than explore, learn, and expand?

[Alpha]

Why must we destroy and kill and conquer rather than explore, learn, and expand?

This... doesn't sound like Che?

It's entirely possible that everything we are is just the daydream of a giant super-beetle in a far away galaxy. So why bother doing anything?

I don't think there is an answer to this. But there are answers, if you get what I'm saying. I think we go on doing these things because that's the only option we have, isn't it?

It's not like we don't ponder these questions at all, just that we can't spend all day pondering them. Some people get too caught up in their own individual importance that they actually forget that they are completely unimportant. I was talking to Rags the other day on MSN, and I said something straight off the cuff that I think is relevant here.

There's only one person who is me. There are 7 billion people who are not me, and they are infinitely more important than me.

So my answer to why we don't ponder the larger questions is that we can't. We have day-to-day life to occupy us, as distracting as it is, we'd go insane without it.

To what is larger than us? Everyone is larger than anyone. I like that axiom.

[Che]

I want to imagine a life that is completely different than what we experience day-to-day. I want to imagine a life where we put everything into space, and exploring, and finding out things that are actually important instead of spending every single day doing the same old crap in a boring desk job that ultimately won't change anything or ever discover anything new.

Not sure why you don't think it sounds like me. It's probably because I'm so cynical about the world and people, and that I don't really have hope for the human population. We are doomed to be retarded and want to destroy everything and even 10% of the population being intelligent won't change our fate.

I'm just wishing here that somewhere along the road of evolution we can find out what's most important to us, and that it won't be who owns what territory or which celebrity did what today, but rather where our place is in the universe (or multiverse).

ps I like your "Everyone is larger than anyone". I agree with that. People are all the time observing death around them, and they are so changed by it. That's another question. Why are humans so personal? If one ant dies, it doesn't affect the entire colony, the colony lives on and goes on without them. Why are we programmed to be emotional over a personal death?

[Fluffy]

Even if we were to find something, it'd probably be as insignificant as everything else we already have. We might even just end up finding out that everything is, in fact, meaningless. And then what? Knowing everything's meaningless is probably worse than simply believing it, at least on a personal level.

Humans are personal and ants aren't because both have different methods of ensuring the survival of our respective species. If we didn't care so much, we probably wouldn't have made it this far.

[Sinister]

Wth is wrong with a micro scale? The Universe exists as a perfect cooperation of fractals and mircrocosms with wholes and supersystems. As above so below, man! Besides, you say wasting our time here... As compared to what, though? Not all that much else to do, is there?

As far as other life, you've heard of the Drake formula? The formula for calculating the possibility of life existing on another planet in the universe. Scholastically, it's looked at as kind of a joke. The highest number reached so far is about 18,000(planets). Problem is, is that formula may realistically be as much interaction with them that we'll ever achieve. Remember to be content with what you are, where you are and what you're doing. You'll only be that way for such a short time anyway.

-Sin

[Govinda]

We keep living because we are alive. Isn't that cool? So much chaos, so many generations - it takes so much to make one human being.

Property is the reason we spend all our time behind desks. It all comes back to property. I'd love to imagine a world where everyone stops being so obsessed with property, but I don't know if we'll ever be able to make a world that's secure enough to allow that to happen.

I take solace from the sky. It's not going anywhere while I'm alive. I can breathe clean air. The phrase that gets me through the day, and keeps me cheery, is this: I was not born on a rubbish tip in Mumbai, therefore I am happy.

The question comes up: are we free? You can be if you want. If you think you're wasting your time, Che, think of something you could be doing that wouldn't be a waste of your time. Go do it. Be brave.

As for the rest of the population, we're socialised into being this way. The desire to annihilate comes from, again, property; the desire for resources that aren't currently ours. On a smaller scale, it can come from mental illness too. All some people want from life is stability, a job, a family. These things really make them happy, and I'd never deny them that. It took me a while to understand that.

Nobody can answer these questions for you. Everyone has to make their own peace with the world around them and the way it turns. Maybe you should take a few days in a quiet place. I like to do that when I'm feeling confused by the weight of the world. Sometimes it gets so bad that all I can think is 'This is a massive, cosmic, joke. It must be.' But then I go to a place where you can actually see the stars and I'm reminded that I'm tiny and pointless, and that while I'm here I might as well try to make things more comfortable for those around me, and think hard about the ways we can make it better. If I ever come up with a good way of actually helping, I'll go and do it, but I'm not smart enough yet. Remember - when you look up at the sky, there is nothing tangible between you and infinity. You're touching it, and you're a (tiny) part of it. It's right there.

Good luck.

[OnOneRyder]

Sadly where we're at right now keeps us relatively grounded with short excursions into space, so going off and searching for answers really isn't an option right now. Sure we can send probes and such out but they only accomplish so much, we need to discover a much more efficient form of travel before we can even consider taking off for exploration of far off worlds.

It's fine to feel small and insignificant...because we are! We're shadows of existence in the middle of nowhere which no one else will ever care about. Our entire civilization may flicker out like a candle, thousands of years of evolution without anyone else so much as knowing we ever existed gone in a celestial blink of the eye. But we're also part of a much bigger picture! That whole thing about us being stardust is completely true, the 5 most plentiful elements as we know to be found in the universe and also the top 5 in the complextion of our bodies.

"The cosmos is in us, we're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" Carl Sagan

[Jin]

The more one seriously contemplates life on the macro level, the more depressed one becomes. You end up realizing how utterly pointless our lives are. But there's a catch. You also end up realizing how utterly pointless everything else is. There's no point in living differently; in the end, it'll end up being just as meaningless as that which we consider a mundane life. So what can one do?

Forget this box of chocolates nonsense, life is a completed game of Grand Theft Auto. There's no point to it unless you make your own goals and purpose. So just dick around and explore. Learn some things, experience some other things, kill some hookers, go nuts.

[SOLDIER #819]

Why must we destroy and kill and conquer rather than explore, learn, and expand?

It can be argued that one leads to the other. The fact that we can't be satisfied and continually search for something more has been, on some level, the reason that people end up hurting each other. We're definitely expanding, but very slowly. Life really is just too short to see it clearly.

Not to say that'll really get us anywhere.

[Che]

It seems like all of you pretty much think the same way.

We (meaning some scientists, not anyone I know) just invented a rocket that can take us to Mars in 39 days (or something like that). Now, instead of going back to our moon in 2020 (like NASA has stated they want to), one guy in NASA is pushing to send people to Mars, or one of Mars' moon. He sees no reason to go back to the moon. Although I don't quite agree with that, because if our moon has water then we could set up a base there in which we could ship water to the International Space Station so that our load when launching shuttles (or the new vehicle in a few years) is lighter.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I think we should put forth all we have into space and exploration. Expanding. If our lives are indeed pointless, and we are just a virus spreading throughout the galaxy killing nature, then why not find out if that's true or not? It's better than going to the same boring ass ****ing job day after day rotting our youth away until we die.

And has no one seen Futurama? (<--sort of a joke) All we need is our brain to survive, we can transplate other things. We are probably pretty close to figuring out how to regen our organs to lengthen our lives. If we colonized and terraformed planets to suit our living environment we wouldn't have to deal with an overpopulated Earth, and we could grow more resources. At least for a little while we'd have more resources than we could use and there would be less fighting over oil, etc.

Stop spending all our taxpaying money on wars that ultimately won't mean anything once we start thinking universally. Pump money into education and stem cell research and focus on real shit.


Is anyone pumped yet or do I have to keep going?

[loaf]

I've thought of this since I could remember. And I honestly think there are other beings out there. I mean, hell, when we see a Star, we are seeing where it was 50 years ago. Hell, if the earth is only how much billion years old, imagine what else is out there.

P.S. I've smoked too much weed on this subject to many times.

[Tiffany]

Shouldn't we be thinking bigger, harder, further?

♪♪ Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger... ♪♪

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

I'll have you know that my text message log is pretty weak this week. Not much going on in the realm of Tiffany, that's for sure. So no, there isn't anything better in there.

Not all of us destroys and conquers. Its people like you, who ask these sorts of questions that balance out the people who do. I don't think anything is a waste of time unless you allow it to be. Granted, I don't watch the news. There rarely is anything beneficial on it, and I don't care about how Tiger Woods had an affair with, or the next celebrity being pulled off the pedestal that the media placed them on. It's all balderdash, as I like to say.

Although unless you've been an ant... you don't exactly know if the death of one has an impact. Maybe it doesn't if you measure it on our value scale. But you could say the same for us. If someone dies, we mourn but life goes on and we carry on as per normal.

I'm not sure your questions have specific answers tbh. Although I agree with Lowlf ( ) and back in tha day when I used to smoke weed, my friends and I contemplated this topic quite often.

[Jin]

If our lives are indeed pointless, and we are just a virus spreading throughout the galaxy killing nature, then why not find out if that's true or not?

Both nature and the galaxy are pointless as well. The only galaxy that had a point is far, far away and that was a long time ago.

[SOLDIER #819]

It's better than going to the same boring ass ****ing job day after day rotting our youth away until we die.

I sort of get what you're saying by this. It'd be nice to escape the inevitable, where we'll most likely all end up working for the rest of our lives after we're done living out our youth. It'd be cool to delay that if at all possible. Though to do what you're saying the majority will inevitably have to work day after day doing grunt work.

Having a purpose in life wouldn't be so bad right about now.

[OnOneRyder]

I certainly get what you're saying Che, and I completely aggree with you 100%! The problem is...our technology is holding us back. Look at current rocket technology used to get out into orbit, a HUGE percentage of all the weight found on a rocket it fuel...used to power a rocket which lifts that fuel plus a little bit more. It's a terribly inefficient way to reach orbit and even worse for actually leaving earth and venturing off. For us to actually be capable of travelling our own solar system and returning will require us to find a way to either bring the fuel into orbit to be used for the trip..or find fuel somewhere else. Also we don't have the propulsion technology needed to get much further than mars in a reasonable amount of time. Getting to mars is decades away and getting to probably the next biggest step for us Europa is most likely centuries off. As for leaving our solar system and venturing to stars which have planets we believe could be similar enough to earth to support life...we can't even speculate on that. More than likely voyages like that will not include a trip home So we had better be sure when we set off we know what we're doing. We have to work in the realm of what we know, and that is that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light so many of these worlds are simply unreachable regardless of technology.

[Che]

I certainly get what you're saying Che, and I completely aggree with you 100%! The problem is...our technology is holding us back. Look at current rocket technology used to get out into orbit, a HUGE percentage of all the weight found on a rocket it fuel...used to power a rocket which lifts that fuel plus a little bit more. It's a terribly inefficient way to reach orbit and even worse for actually leaving earth and venturing off. For us to actually be capable of travelling our own solar system and returning will require us to find a way to either bring the fuel into orbit to be used for the trip..or find fuel somewhere else. Also we don't have the propulsion technology needed to get much further than mars in a reasonable amount of time. Getting to mars is decades away and getting to probably the next biggest step for us Europa is most likely centuries off. As for leaving our solar system and venturing to stars which have planets we believe could be similar enough to earth to support life...we can't even speculate on that. More than likely voyages like that will not include a trip home So we had better be sure when we set off we know what we're doing. We have to work in the realm of what we know, and that is that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light so many of these worlds are simply unreachable regardless of technology.

Actually, it's not our technology. We have a lot of technology going for us, the problem is funding. Which brings me back to my original point. Nobody believes we are ever going to find out enough about ourselves. They see it as pointless, thinking we can never do something like that. But as humans, we do some amazing things when we put our minds to it. We amaze ourselves constantly, yet we never seem to pick up on the pace.

We could launch a mission to Mars tomorrow, and be there in 39 days. Yet we don't know enough about the mission and enough about ourselves to know if humans could be that far away from their home. We definitely don't have the funds right now, either. But if we had the funds, and astronauts brave enough to do it, we could. Tomorrow!

I have problems believing that for the rest of my working career I'm going to be at the same job, doing the same old things for decades. I would much rather see new things, and explore, and better our future. I just need the rest of the world to work with me on this.

[nix]

Actually, it's not our technology. We have a lot of technology going for us, the problem is funding. Which brings me back to my original point. Nobody believes we are ever going to find out enough about ourselves. They see it as pointless, thinking we can never do something like that. But as humans, we do some amazing things when we put our minds to it. We amaze ourselves constantly, yet we never seem to pick up on the pace.

We could launch a mission to Mars tomorrow, and be there in 39 days. Yet we don't know enough about the mission and enough about ourselves to know if humans could be that far away from their home. We definitely don't have the funds right now, either. But if we had the funds, and astronauts brave enough to do it, we could. Tomorrow!

I have problems believing that for the rest of my working career I'm going to be at the same job, doing the same old things for decades. I would much rather see new things, and explore, and better our future. I just need the rest of the world to work with me on this.

I'm with Che on this one, space travel is a choice and could easily be achieved.

How you ask? Well, how about instead of spending the trillions of dollars on weapons of death and war to blow the shit out of helpless countries each year, we instead spend the funds on clothing and feeding every single person on this planet and travel space?

We could fund weapons slowly on the side and keep them for actual threats we meet in deep space... no ?

I'm just a dreamer, but im not the only one

[Alpha]

Che, I think you misinterpreted my axiom a while back. No, I don't think people should spend all this money on space travel. We know enough about our solar system to know that only we live in it. Even if ('primitive' --- whatever that means) life exists within our solar system, what use is that? Did you know that it is estimated that science has described only 10% of the species living on earth? Probably 99% of mammals, but 10% of the insects (still millions upon millions). What use is going somewhere else, when we haven't even discovered Earth?

If everyone is truly more important than anyone, then people should be selfless. The average person on earth lives in poverty (in absolute terms; so what about relative terms? --- which is where my axiom comes in), and until that changes, why are we spending billions of dollars in space travel, when there are people who can't afford food, and destroy their environment, not out of malice, but out of necessity.

In related news, New Zealand officially has a space programme. We sent our first rocket into space the other day. We bet the Australians in the third great space race.

[Che]

Did you know that it is estimated that science has described only 10% of the species living on earth? Probably 99% of mammals, but 10% of the insects (still millions upon millions). What use is going somewhere else, when we haven't even discovered Earth?

Yes, I did indeed know that. You basically just said "why go to math class when we don't know how to play all the sports in gym class?" We can still continue to explore our own Earth, and venturing to other planets could potentially teach us things we didn't know already.

average[/I] person on earth lives in poverty (in absolute terms; so what about relative terms? --- which is where my axiom comes in), and until that changes, why are we spending billions of dollars in space travel, when there are people who can't afford food, and destroy their environment, not out of malice, but out of necessity.

Very true, but by harvesting resources and opening up jobs on different planets we could provide people with the things they are missing. I feel like this could get into a completely different topic, but I don't disagree that we should help the people who can't afford food to survive.

New Zealand officially has a space programme[/URL]. We sent our first rocket into space the other day. We bet the Australians in the third great space race.

Congrats! I always enjoy reading about more and more countries venturing into space on their own. I think it's a a huge step in the correct direction.

[RagnaToad]

The question is not why we are wasting our time, it's all about how you want to waste yours.

To summarise some stuff Nietzsche wrote: When nothing really matters anymore, and there is nothing that is worthy of being called 'God', what is left to do? Accept that you're not special, and live your life by trying to be a better person. ('Better' doesn't mean 'friendlier' in this context though.)

The way I see it: Give your own life meaning, not life in general. Whatever makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone else...

Most of the time, I feel like the last born of Generation X.

First rule of life is: You do not talk about life.
Second rule of life is: You do nót talk about life!

[Govinda]

I'm not really into space. There's too much to do down here. But hell, Che, go for it. Escape your life. Get on the road. Get people to listen to you and do your bit. Amazing things can happen when you put your drive into practice. Get people to follow you, get the people who control the funding to listen. You can do it, if you really believe in this. It might even give you the meaning you're looking for, too.

[Sean]

I suppose I'd have to partially agree, but I'd honestly much rather see more exploration of our own planet take precedence over the exploration of space. There's honestly only so much funding to be had, and I'd rather see more focused on discovering the secrets of our own planet.

Ideally I'd like to see all available funding diverted to research of both, however.

The thing that generally gets me down about life is when I learn and read about the great thinkers from centuries past. Science only seems to have been hindered, and sometimes I believe we're 200-300 years behind where we could be. I blame the Catholic Church for a lot of this... the sheer disregard for any way of thinking that opposed a divine being that lead to the deaths of hundreds of scientists and mathematicians is appalling.

The more I've learned about mathematics the more depressing this way of thinking becomes. Only recently have we found practical uses for things discovered hundreds of years ago. Matrices, something rarely used before 1900s, are a staple in computer programming. The binary number system is again something that was discovered in the 17th century and only began to have practical uses recently, as it is, literally, the language of computers. Electrical currents only have two states, on and off, a binary number system fits this perfectly. (I use the term discovered, because it's more so a discovery of the correlation between numbers and not an invention) Electricity rules our lives today, but how much further along could generator technologies, or appliances or technological devices be if people had begun to think of practical uses for electricity upon it's discovery?


As far as wasting one's time is concerned... I try to stay away from this entire line of thinking. Existential crises are just not fun.