Lies - okay? not okay?

[Freya]

This is a topic I'm really interested in.

You can skip the next paragraph if you're not interested in my reasons for making this thread:
I made this thread because I talked to my boyfriend a few minutes ago about a party we want to go to on Saturday. I told him that I probably wouldn't go there because I can't stand everyone getting drunk and acting like a fool. (Especially as I won't drink any alcohol....... and I would've to drive those drunken fools home <_<")
So my boyfriend said that we have to tell our friends my decision. The thing is: He didn't want to tell them I don't like drunk people - he wanted to tell them a lie. He just didn't want to tell them the truth.

Read on HERE if you skipped the first paragraph. ^^

Do you think that's okay? Lying to other people KNOWING that you're lying?
I know, it's not THAT dramatic. It could be way worse. (Like telling someone a person died although that certain person is still alive... such things...)
And: Do YOU lie sometimes? Or do you tell the truth all the time?


I can't stand lies, actually. It's not that I'll get angry and want to lose that friend if he/she ever lied to me. It's just that I tend to tell the truth all the time, just because I don't want to lie to people I like. (If I don't like the person or don't know the person then it's actually pretty easy to lie ^^" Like: "Are you feeling okay?" A person I don't like or know doesn't need to know that I'm actually feeling TERRIBLE. I'd tell my friends so, though.)
So I got a bit angry when my boyfriend wanted to lie to our friends. And as I always tell him the truth, I told him that I don't like it. <_<"
Nevertheless, sometimes I try to... kind of cover the truth. If I don't want someone to know the REAL truth, I cover it up so that the statement IS true, but the person I talk to still doesn't know the truth. (Gosh, I'm so bad at explaining what I'm thinking x..x")
Oh, and I don't tell the truth all the time, of course. Sometimes I lie, but only when it doesn't really matter. At least I TRY to do that. Dunno if I'm good at it. Probably not.

Besides, I think a thread like this already exists... somewhere. I didn't find a newer thread, so I hope it's okay to have created this one.

[Leon]

I never liked lying. I always preferred people being honest to me than lying to me. Whether the truth hurts or not, at least it was real.

My advice? Just tell them you're not comfortable with other people getting drunk around you. You don't necessarily have to tell them you HATE it when they do that.

[Taco-Calamitous]

I am very similar to you in that I don't really like lying very much, but sometimes I won't tell the whole truth. I will say part of what I am thinking and leave the less favorable part of what I am thinking out quite frequently-or I won't say anything at all-though sometimes I will hint at it with my face or my tone of voice. If someone comes out and directly asks me/guesses at the less favorable part, then I will come clean about it, though I always try to be polite about it. Very rarely do I actually lie, though. Unless you count sarcasm or extreme exaggeration for humorous effect (even if it's only amusing to me.)

Of course, the problem with not lying is that you could end up like Abraham Lincoln here:

Furthermore, I agree with the advice that Leon has given you; you can tell them that when people are drunk around you, it makes you uncomfortable, or that you don't like it when people drink. Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

[winterborn86]

I think it depends on the situation, for example: a friend of mine keeps asking me to go out clubbing with her, but she's a kind of an irritating sort of person and I don't really want to spend an evening drinking with her, so I lied and told her I was short on cash and couldn't get a babysitter. A lie like that is fine, it's nicer to lie than to tell her that I can't handle to much of her, I think she may of been pretty offended if I told the truth.
So basically, to me small white lies are fine, big nasty lies are not so fine. If you're lie isint hurting anyone then it's no big deal

[Pete]

Just tell them a half truth. Tell them you refuse to get stuck DDing, and that's that. Don't make it an issue about people being drunk or anything, just tell them you don't want to be responsible for everyone else. It's something that nobody can argue with, especially if you don't drink, and don't have to rely on others to drive you.

I try not to lie, but sometimes when it's a sensitive matter, and the other person won't know, I won't have a problem with it. For instance, I was playing Black Ops the other night, and one of my coworkers sent a request to play with me. Now, this guy is super annoying, but not a bad guy. I ignored the request, and logged off after my match. The next day he was like "Oh what happened last night?" I told him that my brother was on my account, didn't know who it was, and then logged off.

No harm no foul.

Case in point, white lies and half truths are alright, depending on the circumstances.

[OceanEyes28]

If I don't want to tell the whole truth, I still try to be honest somehow. So I'm with Pete, just say you don't want to get stuck DD-ing. You don't have to explain why the truth is what it is, but it'll probably keep your conscience in check if you stay honest.

I don't like when people aren't straightforward with me. I try to give most people the benefit of knowing where they stand with me, especially if they ask. It's always frustrating when others aren't as direct.

But I'm not for being mean either, so no, I won't say someone looks fat in something (for example), I'll probably just say "Why don't you try something else?"

[Unknown Entity]

I withhold aspects of the truth to save myself from lying. I hate lying, so I try to be as honest as possible.

Last lie I told was to my mother about a week ago when she asked if I'd seen the e-mail she'd sent me. I said yes just to please her, but I was stuck when she asked what it was about. That there is just one reason I don't bother lying - I'm bad at it. If I was thinking, I'd have said that I overlooked it, but should have just said that I didn't. ._.

[bahamuts heir]

It's not a lie if you say part of the truth and let the other person speculate about the rest it's just less painful truth
Anyways other than that way^ I try to not lie at all so I see where your coming from. If you really are not comfortable around people who are drunk then you shouldn't have to hide your opinion and those friends of yours should accept that. I hate when people lie to me and when people twist my words and accuse me of lying so no, unless it's needed it isn't ok. Best be careful your boyfriend doesnt go overboard while they are drunk though or he could get hurt

[Merlin]

In general, lying is a bad thing but there are times where being truthful causes more harm than lying. For example, if someone sustains an injury that will result in death within the next few moments. It would be better to provide comforting words rather than blurting out that the person has no chance of survival. Also, how many relationships would actually work based on 100% honesty? Perhaps if society developed based off that methodology it would work. If it wasn't, it would be social suicide. The difficulty is finding where that line is. I say, live by telling the truth and only use a lie as a last resort.

Of course there are situations where you are screwed no matter what you say, like the most famous question of all: "Does this make me look fat? / Do I look fat?"

[Freya]

Of course there are situations where you are screwed no matter what you say, like the most famous question of all: "Does this make me look fat? / Do I look fat?"

Haha... good example. ^^ I totally agree. (And I know what I'm talking about, I'm a woman!)

Thanks for your advice, everyone! I was completely flashed when I saw that you wrote something about my little... "problem". (It's not that much of a problem, actually ^^") I didn't mean to scream "HELP" by writing it. It was just a sort of introduction.
But I'm glad to have read your advices. That encourages me in telling my friends the truth about that problems.... though maybe I won't mention the word "hate", like Leon said. ^^"

[Clint]

I don't mind lying as long as it's for some sort of clever cunning purpose, or just for pure ludicrous effect. Personally, I never tell anybody the entire truth. I'll say something vaguely true, but I'll stop talking after a while and allow people to assume what they want, because quite frankly, talking in detail is overrated. I don't like when people are straightforward, nor do I like being straightforward with others. That's for pussies. I like vague details and a vague understanding of what anybody is saying, including myself.

[Furore]

I'm not too big on lying both for myself and others. Hell, there was a time I swore off it though these days lying can be almost a necessity - if I want a violent or drunk person to leave, suggesting an incentive in a certain direction can work wonders. Other people may also have valid reasons.

But, some lying can be easily forgivable. In fact, most lies I come across seem to be exaggeration based on not properly recalling details, OR when a person feels sure of something and states it as truth because of it, but it isn't. Things like scientists stating something is truth as no other alternative seems likely, only to have another disprove it later or someone accusing someone with an unlikely story of lying are two examples of this.

Malicious lies on the other hand don't serve any purpose but to create disharmony, these are on a whole other level.

[che]

I'm not too big on lying both for myself and others. Hell, there was a time I swore off it though these days lying can be almost a necessity - if I want a violent or drunk person to leave, suggesting an incentive in a certain direction can work wonders. Other people may also have valid reasons.

Don't mean to quote you up, but is that really lying? Suggesting something for the good of the drunk/violent person is good for both themselves, you, and third parties. I see a lot less harm done than good unless you were to tell them that they should go be drunk in traffic instead of be drunk in a club.

Things like scientists stating something is truth as no other alternative seems likely, only to have another disprove it later or someone accusing someone with an unlikely story of lying are two examples of this.

Wouldn't it be beneficial for scientists to lie to us? Take something, for example, like global warming. One scientist warms up of climate change, and then everyone flips out and starts researching why. Eventually it is researched again and again, where as before it would have been left alone. The result? Education of issues. The price? We won't trust that scientist anymore if they are wrong. But maybe that was worth that scientist's career to them?

In a perfect world, I would never endorse lying. At the same time, however, this world isn't perfect and I respect that sometimes good things can come out of it. Yes, I do have morals, but you can't lie to yourself by thinking lying is a black and white thing that's either right or wrong.

(ps that last part was not directed towards you, Silver)

[Imposter]

So is withholding the truth a lie? I mean the intention is to withhold information to deceive the person in one way or another. Despite whether it is for their good or bad I think if you are deceiving someone by using falsehoods or keeping away certain aspects of the truth so they won't know then it is still lying.

Like the majority I think lying is wrong, whatever form it is in. I guess that it is black and white to me but I just reason it out to avoid the idea of lying being wrong all the time. Despite this though I still lie, in fact if I really think about it I lie a lot, about a lot of things. I mean despite us all saying it is bad and that we don't appreciate it we still do it.

Most of the time it's just because I'm lazy I think. It's easier for me to lie about 'little' things than tell the truth and deal with the consequences of those things. I mean I even down play lying saying that if it is over something little that lying is insignificant and no big deal. Although if I actually think about it if the issue was that unimportant was it even worth the lie? Haha, I would suppose that would make me a pretty dishonest person, and although I would say I stand for honesty and think it is something that should be cultivated in the human character I haven't quite achieved said plateau.

In fact I don't think I even know many who have. I mean if we think lying isn't great and shouldn't be done why do we continue to do it in any form? Is honesty really that unimportant now?

[Furore]

Don't mean to quote you up, but is that really lying? Suggesting something for the good of the drunk/violent person is good for both themselves, you, and third parties. I see a lot less harm done than good unless you were to tell them that they should go be drunk in traffic instead of be drunk in a club.

Yeah, definitely lying. I'm suggesting something cool is elsewhere so they don't damage my site or target other people in the area. See I do see it as almost being a necessity as some of these drunks/druggies can't easily be reasoned with. They're a minority, but one which causes most damages. This is on open sites btw, clubs have other laws security can utilize to legally use some amount of force to evict troublesome patrons at the site owner's discretion.

Wouldn't it be beneficial for scientists to lie to us? Take something, for example, like global warming. One scientist warms up of climate change, and then everyone flips out and starts researching why. Eventually it is researched again and again, where as before it would have been left alone. The result? Education of issues. The price? We won't trust that scientist anymore if they are wrong. But maybe that was worth that scientist's career to them?

In a perfect world, I would never endorse lying. At the same time, however, this world isn't perfect and I respect that sometimes good things can come out of it. Yes, I do have morals, but you can't lie to yourself by thinking lying is a black and white thing that's either right or wrong.

(ps that last part was not directed towards you, Silver)

Perhaps it would be beneficial, it may depend on an individual case. The point there I was trying to make was that sometimes a lie is unintentional, be it one with positive consequences, negative consequences or some degree of both.

I agree wholeheartedly that lies aren't always black and white. The trouble as I see it is most lies do have some negative implications, even if just being people losing faith in your ability to remain honest.