Let's Be Civilized

[Rocky]

Everyone that signs up at TFF is required to sign the member agreement. Simply put is that if there is a section of that agree that is amended to incorperate the mature forum and its rules then people who accept the terms and agreements of this forum take the responcibilty all on their own. Thus also freeing TFF of the liability.

so what would happen if someone lies about their age, do they get perma banned or what?

[loaf]

You can't force underage people not to look at it or try and get into it. Underage people are doing illegal things IRL and also online. All you can say is, only 18+ are allowed to be in this section. Once someone underage reveals their true age, you make it so they can't view it anymore.

[che]

And I guess that's my point that I want to make as well with Treize said. Why are we going to make a system that is going to be already flawed, and we know it? Is that honestly our best solution is to hope that the kids don't lie about their ages? Come on guys, you were all 16 at one point in time, you know that something to that extent will happen.

Then so what? Parents who let their kids on the internet take a risk. If you're lying about your age, then how can anyone hold TFF responsible? It's the same thing as if you were 16 and tried to go to a porn site. You had to lie about your age to view the 18+ content. No porn sites get sued by parents over that. And that's porn, which won't be posted on TFF.

So what if a kid reads the F word? In some countries there aren't any censorships on language in the first place, and those kids grow up to be just fine. And I'm assuming if you are on the internet in the first place you've heard something like that before.

[Meier Link]

so what would happen if someone lies about their age, do they get perma banned or what?

Privliges to the forum can be removed. Just like in ID if you break the 2 strike limitation you are bannd from ID, not the whole forum. The only difference would be that there wouldn't be a second strike in that forum. That is not how it should be set up. Atleast that is my opinion of what should happen.

[Rocky]

All I'm saying is why even make an 18+ forum if people know it's going to be easily exploitable (i.e., lying about your age), why even bother of going through the process of doing it. Seems like a waste of time to anyone involved.

[OceanEyes28]

Why not bother? Experimenting with a new sub-forum isn't a life or death situation. We've tried out a Flaming Forum before (didn't work out.... sorry), why not NSFW?

If it causes problems, it can be taken down.




I want to call it Kids' Club.

EDIT: Or Virgin Isles......

[Victoria]

All I'm saying is why even make an 18+ forum if people know it's going to be easily exploitable (i.e., lying about your age), why even bother of going through the process of doing it. Seems like a waste of time to anyone involved.

Well with that logic, may as well just shut down the whole internet. >_>

[che]

I would like to nominate Meier Link for mod of that forum, if it gets made. I think he's very mature and can handle things calmly and collectively.

[Victoria]

Yeah, except one problem. It'd be a sub forum in Gen Chat, So Ally and Ann would mod it anyways.

[Rocky]

I would like to nominate Meier Link for mod of that forum, if it gets made. I think he's very mature and can handle things calmly and collectively.

I'd rather nominate Mistress Victoria, from what I hear she has more experience in that department.

so when is this nsfw 18+ thread going to be made? I'd hate to see this debate reach no conclusion... like the last 8756233556 threads about this very topic made years back.

EDIT: some quote to think about, since activity is a big issue atm.

HOWEVER, I think that by creating more forums and sub- forums, you're taking away from general chat. And at the same time, if someone who can't see this adult forum posts an 18+ topic, what do you do? Do you straight up tell people they can't be in an extension of gen chat? Or do you pull some kind of CIA black ops crap and just delete the thread and pretend it never happend?

[RagnaToad]

Am I the only one bothered by this:

Whenever there is ANOTHER post in some eliminatin or word game thread, it shows it under General Chat, so you can't see if there's an actual update in the GC forum itself. It annoys me when I click on General Chat, only to find out that the only updates were indeed in that WG forum. The only solution to this would be to make the WG forum an entirely different subforum, but that's not an option I belive.

Any way, on the mature forum: I don't want to kill the idea, but I don't see any need for it. People who want to discuss more NSFW stuff, including myself, have made such threads in General Chat before. It has mostly (if not always) been mentioned in the thread title that the content would be NSFW or 18+, and those threads have been very decent so far. I'm not sure if creating another subforum in General Chat just for NSFW stuff will be an asset to the forums.


EDIT: Also: Why is there even a text filter? The only words I know that are censored are 'fuck', 'cock' (but not 'cocks', go figure...), 'dick' and some derogatory term for gay people I believe, which is ridiculous, since anyone can figure out how to bypass the filter. And are people really that offended by those words. (I do reliase that without a filter, certain expressions and words would be used too much on these forums, which still attract lots of young people.)

[Pete]

I'm against the NSFW forum. The whole idea is to make more of a community here. By segregating the members by age, you'll just wind up making it adult gen chat and kids gen chat. There would just be separation and people would just be acting the same way.

It would essentially be the same as it is now. Us older members would all just be doing the same thing, but being allowed to talk about sex, and the younger members would be stuck at the kids table. The same cliques would be there, and older members would just essentially have a lot of the rules repealed for ourselves.

I mean, as nice as it would be to talk about my pubes, or jerking off, or whatever, we still had a basic 13+ rule set, and if we decide to make a special 18+ subsection, we're kind of defeating that purpose.

Plus it's easier to avoid all sorts of crazy issues and arguments if we just leave it be. I'd much rather be able to form more of a community, while being able to have real discussions.

EDIT: And I agree with Rags, that shit annoys me too.

[che]

Am I the only one bothered by this:

Whenever there is ANOTHER post in some eliminatin or word game thread, it shows it under General Chat, so you can't see if there's an actual update in the GC forum itself. It annoys me when I click on General Chat, only to find out that the only updates were indeed in that WG forum. The only solution to this would be to make the WG forum an entirely different subforum, but that's not an option I belive.

Any way, on the mature forum: I don't want to kill the idea, but I don't see any need for it. People who want to discuss more NSFW stuff, including myself, have made such threads in General Chat before. It has mostly (if not always) been mentioned in the thread title that the content would be NSFW or 18+, and those threads have been very decent so far. I'm not sure if creating another subforum in General Chat just for NSFW stuff will be an asset to the forums. Plus, it is absurd that '****' is censored, but 'cocks' isn't.


EDIT: Also: Why is there even a text filter? The only words I know that are censored are '****' and '****' and some derogatory term for gay people I believe, which is ridiculous, since anyone can figure out how to bypass the filter. And are people really that offended by those words. (I do reliase that without a filter, certain expressions and words would be used too much on these forums, which still attract lots of young people.)

I'm against the NSFW forum. The whole idea is to make more of a community here. By segregating the members by age, you'll just wind up making it adult gen chat and kids gen chat. There would just be separation and people would just be acting the same way.

It would essentially be the same as it is now. Us older members would all just be doing the same thing, but being allowed to talk about sex, and the younger members would be stuck at the kids table. The same cliques would be there, and older members would just essentially have a lot of the rules repealed for ourselves.

I mean, as nice as it would be to talk about my pubes, or jerking off, or whatever, we still had a basic 13+ rule set, and if we decide to make a special 18+ subsection, we're kind of defeating that purpose.

Plus it's easier to avoid all sorts of crazy issues and arguments if we just leave it be. I'd much rather be able to form more of a community, while being able to have real discussions.

EDIT: And I agree with Rags, that shit annoys me too.

I changed my mind on the NSFW stuff. I agree with these two wonderful posts, and it goes with the idea of making general chat more of a general chat. Also, **** the language filter. Should be able to disable it if you want.

[Violet]

I'm against the NSFW forum. The whole idea is to make more of a community here. By segregating the members by age, you'll just wind up making it adult gen chat and kids gen chat. There would just be separation and people would just be acting the same way.

The only kinds of threads that would be in the NSFW forums would be NSFW content. Meaning, strictly NSFW content. Everything else can remain in GC, the adults could still post in it, it wouldn't be the "kiddie" table, you just wouldn't see threads like "Threesomes" or "Favorite Sex Positions". It would be separating those threads from the quality threads that everyone can enjoy.
Besides, I'd be a little concerned if a little 12 year old was feeling bad because they were missing out in all the talk about foreplay or whatever.


Also, I think Ally made the best point. "We've tried out a Flaming Forum before (didn't work out.... sorry), why not NSFW? If it causes problems, it can be taken down."

Why shoot down an idea before we've even tried it to see how it goes? I think in order to help the forums, trying things out is a necessity. I'm not saying this NSFW idea will help, but I'd like to see it be done and tried rather than left in the dark.

[RagnaToad]

In that spirit, is removing the Word Games forum not also an idea that could improve the forums and could easily be undone?

[Pete]

Why shoot down an idea before we've even tried it to see how it goes? I think in order to help the forums, trying things out is a necessity. I'm not saying this NSFW idea will help, but I'd like to see it be done and tried rather than left in the dark.

You can say the same exact thing about removing the Word Games forum and making Gen Chat more general. I just think that since the flaming forum went over so poorly, it's kind of an indicator of how this will go. I just think it will only create more divergence between members. People shat bricks when they discovered SOLDIER existed years ago.

[Violet]

A Flaming forum and NSFW forum are two different things. People would be keeping all that stuff within the NSFW, it wouldn't spread to other parts of the forum..and it'd be casual talk, not flaming.

I just think it will only create more divergence between members. People shat bricks when they discovered SOLDIER existed years ago.

Yeah, you have a point with this.
Well, if nobody wants it, then there's no point in having it.

[Furore]

I'm for the NSFW section idea.
Yeah, underage kids could lie their way in, but they can do the same for any hardcore porn site or whatever else online. Just add a legal disclaimer stating it's forbidden to people under 18 (and possibly also that you access it at your own risk and the opinions within aren't neccesarily held by TFF staff) and then if someone underage lies to get in it's on them.

Of course I would also like to see humour/word games remain as they're a big pull to the site for some people, keep some members coming to the site regularly and are a great time waster for when there's a temporary lack of decent general/intellectual discussion threads around.

EDIT: And they're quite easy to ignore too if you're not into them. Everyone wins?

[Taco-Calamitous]

I'm down for whatever everyone decides to do, personally. Get rid of H/WG? Whatever. Keep it there? Sure. NSFW forum? I wouldn't have to see them in the main General Chat forum anymore, so kudos there! I feel a little sympathetic now to Meier Link's plight, however. He's a good man. Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

[Tiffany]

Why not try both if the actions can be undone? Can't the admin or something just 'hide' the H/WG forum for a bit to see how people react to not having it anymore?

Add the NSFW and give that a test drive too. It isn't hard to add/delete/hide forums. Then that way people can give it a test drive and see how they feel. If people still feel segregated then axe the NSFW forum. People feel like they're missing the H/WG forum then unhide it. If majority don't really miss the H/WG remove it completely.

Why not just try it? Its the Internet, there isn't anything that cannot be undone.

Edit:

Holy crap, triple negative anyone with my last sentence? Sorry, its early.

[Rhaps]

Why not try both if the actions can be undone? Can't the admin or something just 'hide' the H/WG forum for a bit to see how people react to not having it anymore?

Add the NSFW and give that a test drive too. It isn't hard to add/delete/hide forums. Then that way people can give it a test drive and see how they feel. If people still feel segregated then axe the NSFW forum. People feel like they're missing the H/WG forum then unhide it. If majority don't really miss the H/WG remove it completely.

Why not just try it? Its the Internet, there isn't anything that cannot be undone.

Edit:

Holy crap, triple negative anyone with my last sentence? Sorry, its early.

I believe this is the best idea yet! Sans the triple negative, it seems to make the most sense. Both arguments are pretty well founded, defended, and I haven't seen the polls yet as I haven't voted, but I'm guessing it's fifty-fifty or somewhere in that ballpark. So, isn't this kind of a fifty-fifty solution? People who like it get to keep it, and people who don't may pretend it's dead.
As for the NSFW, I'd already be breaking the rules of it if I posted an opinion on it

[Treize]

I think we could try it, but the increase surge in activity, if there is an increase at all, would probably only last for a while, and it'll die down again. The people who only post in HWG (Less than 10% of the people who post in HWG) post only there because they don't want to post elsewhere. They would probably end up leaving if you axed the only place that they like to post. :/ If anything, keeping it here encourages them to stay in the community and occasionally post outside of HWG when they find an interesting topic. Besides, there are some threads in there that have some merit. I think the opinion about the above user's avatar/sig and what song are you currently listening to threads are pretty good ideas. Like I said before, I think that the elimination and some of the spam threads have gone a little overboard, but that doesn't mean that the forum should be completely deleted.

Also, there is no one who just posts in the HWG forum. I have not seen a single person's post there that have a zero post count. If anything, the vast majority of the people who post there have post counts in the hundreds or thousands.

I wouldn't really mind having a NSFW forum, I guess, but I think it isn't really necessary. Like I said before, and from everyone else's example, the threads that would go in there would pretty much just be the threads about sex. I'm still not sure what else we would talk about that couldn't be in GC. I guess if we talked about drugs, extreme violence, or something that would go in there, but I can't picture having a riveting conversation about drugs and violence. <_< Is that just me? I guess the threads would just be moved, but most people that wanted to already posted in the threads that exist, so the forum would most likely be pretty dead. I don't think we need another dead forum around here. We have enough of those already. <_<

[Rocky]

Can we give it (and by it I mean every idea that has been brought up) a test run, or are people going to not act on their ideas, in tff fashion?

I think a week or so of all the above wouldn't hurt, and we could see results.

[RagnaToad]

Can we give it (and by it I mean every idea that has been brought up) a test run, or are people going to not act on their ideas, in tff fashion?

I think a week or so of all the above wouldn't hurt, and we could see results.

I agree. Disabling the text filter is something we should try too.

[OceanEyes28]

Well, for these things to be experimented with, we need an admin. So, let's find an admin with spare time, and maybe we can give it a shot.

[Treize]

I agree. Disabling the text filter is something we should try too.

We have the text filter for the younger user base. Does it really bother you that much that there are like ten words that can't be seen? You could easily bypass this too if you really wanted to...

I don't think we should even try deleting the HWG forum. If anything we should just cut back on the number of elimination/spam threads, but really it isn't impossible to put up with them if they stay.

Also, why even try the NSFW forum? It seems to me like it would just be dead after a short time. It may be misleadingly active for the first "test" week, but I doubt that it will last.

[Victoria]

Who said we were deleting it? We're just hiding it. And as far as NSFW goes, don't knock it til you try it. =P

[RagnaToad]

Does it really bother you that much that there are like ten words that can't be seen?

Not really. But is it really that important to have it? I don't think anyone would absolutely want it if it wasn't here. I don't see a need for it, and I don't get why it filters exactly those few words it filters. I think there are a lot of words in the English language that are 'offensive', so it just seems completely arbitrary to filter these.

And I'm not saying I don't understand why it is here. People, especially young people, can get offended by words. That's a fact. I'm just saying that we might as well try disabling it, while we are trying all this other stuff.

[Andromeda]

Keep in mind that this is just a public discussion. It will still need to be discussed by the staff for a final verdict on anything to happen. Removing, changing or adding forums are fairly important matters that will end up impacting the forums as a whole, this is especially important since it can impact activity or general TFF policy that has been in existence since Fuzz created the place.

So whatever the decision here send it up the flag pole to the staff to be considered.

[Pete]

I agree with Rags on the filter. People will use whatever language they typically use. If I curse, you know exactly which word I'm using, whether or not you can actually see it.

And I would much rather have this staff discussion take place in general chat. I'd love for Fuzz and Cesar to get their asses in here and for us all to bounce opinions and ideas off of each other in terms of what it will actually do for the boards, and not just "oh I like x idea."

Rocky's got the right idea. Let's just do it, then talk about the results a week later.

Progress, people, progress