God Hates Fags church threatens to picket Basingstoke

[Phantom]

Watch out England much? I'm sure half of you have heard about this protest group, you know, the one who pickets at the funerals of dead Soldiers and Gays? Westboro Church is taking their "Project" to England. Anyway Please read this article:

God Hates Fags church threatens to picket Basingstoke - from Pink News - all the latest gay news from the gay community - Pink News


A small religious community from Kansas notorious for picketing funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq have said they are to protest in England.

Westboro Baptist Church is led by Rev Fred Phelps. Among the events on the 'picket schedule' on their website godhatesfags.com is a performance of The Laramie Project in Basingstoke next week.

"In Merry Old England they plan to further enrage the Living God by putting on the farce known commonly as The Laramie Project.

"We will picket them, and see if they actually believe those lies they tell about how tolerant and accepting Brits are.

"RIIIIGHT! Just because you rage against God and make laws that say you cannot use "hate speech" (a/k/a - you may not speak of the Bible standards) in the UK does NOT mean you will not get the message that God Almighty intends for you to get.

"God Hates England; Your Queen Is A Whore; You Hate God; God Hates You; You're Going to Hell; Matt Is In Hell; Hell Is Real Ask Matt; God Hates Fags (Buggers); Obey God, etc."

This latest rant is unlikely to lead to an actual protest - in any case causing fear or distress is a public order offence in England.

In the US, Westboro protesters have first amendment rights to freedom of speech.

The church members, who are mostly relations of Mr Phelps, regularly picket funerals claiming the deaths are God's punishment for the country's support of homosexuals.

They have caused so much distress picketing at funerals of soldiers killed in action that it has been restricted from doing so in 22 states.

The group first came to prominence more than a decade ago when they protested a the funeral of murdered gay man Matthew Shepard.

In October 1998 Matthew was kidnapped, severely beaten and left to die, tied to a fence on the outskirts of Laramie, Wyoming.

Five weeks latermembers of the Tectonic Theatre Project went to Laramie, and over the course of the next year, conducted more than 200 interviews with people of the town.

From these interviews they wrote the play The Laramie Project, a chronicle of the life of the town in the year after the murder.

Westboro Baptist Church, based in Topeka, Kansas, runs numerous websites such as GodHatesFags.com, GodHatesAmerica.com and others expressing condemnation of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people, Roman Catholics, Muslims and Jews.
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Here is a link to the comments posted for this article:

Pink News - Comments on God Hates Fags church threatens to picket Basingstoke

Seriously, these people make me sick, they just don't quit do they? It's bad enough they spread their hatred towards the GLBT community, but going after Soldiers who died for our country to? I know its nothing new, but what are your throughts about this article? And what is your opinon of this Westboro Protest Church?

[Walter Sobchak]

A real controversial question you have here. Oh, what could people think about them? Asking what people think about the Westboro Baptist Church is a bit like asking if they thought Hitler was a humanitarian.

The only way to make these people disappear is to not pay attention to them. When they go on cable news, they are able to spread their message and help secure some nice donations.

[lottiepop]

The good news is that Britian is more of a seccular society and therefore hopefully most people will completely ignore the BS that these stupid religious fanatics try and spread.

To be honest people like these are complete and utter idiots and should be avoided at all costs. They actually disgust me to be honest, they shouldn't go for the LBGT community or soliders who have died in war, they're both just as bad because at the end of the day everyone is human and deserves their own rights, not to be treated like crap just because they happen to be of a different sexuality. Each to their own I say!

[Imposter]

Wow, talk about the radical side of Christianity. I don't really understand where they get off at. No wonder we have all this talk about tolerance now, when people take God's word out of context they end up like this. I don't think abusing rights or God's Word is any sort of good idea.

No wonder some people think all religion is wrong. As it was said England is seen to be the most secular place in the world right now, which makes me wonder if it'll lead to some sort of World vs the Church junk that will have to be defended by those less radical.

How are they suppose to communicate the love of God by doing what they do?

[Furore]

I think if anything God would hate the actions of some Christians.

I try to just ignore those kinds of dumbasses. Except when they sound so retarded it's entertaining in which case I'll share video clips with others I know who'll laugh their asses off at the retardedness.

I bet Fred Phelps was ass raped as a child.

[Storm]

I've never heard of this group before but quite frankly i'm appauled by their actions. The only people (besides the odd arsehole) who would tollerate this kind of behavious would be the BNP. We are supposedly a tollerant country, but its more the fact that the public are more likely to either ignore this bunch of ignoramuses, or just give them what they deserve. In a way it is a shame theyre hitting Basingstoke and not one of the large cities like London or Manchester, as people there would be more likely to do the latter. I'm sure the police will be sure to deal with these guys quickly enough though.

I'm just hoping that if they do come to England, the BBC will be filming a new series of Mock The Week. It would be good stock for sattire, and they will be laughed at all over the nation.

[Clint]

Under the American Constitution, they have the right to peacefully protest. As long as they don't get violent, there's nothing wrong with saying "God hates fags," or "God loves dead soldiers." I'm not saying that I approve of it, I'm just saying that it's legal. For me, that group is a lot like the KKK. They're a bunch of assholes, but under Constitutional law, there's nothing that can be done about them.

[Voldnesis]

God hates them because a man cannot lie with another man, as with a woman. God created Adam then created Eve secondary to be a mate for man... it's an abomination. There is one happening in California. The man of an abomination stands up there puffed up in pride... He thinks merely passing (laws) to the children, to the school system…no more calling them, "Mom and Dad," no more labeling them, "husband and wife" we must not insult the gays! We must not insult the Muslims!" But may I ask, "Where are the Holy children's rights?" Why did he stay silent? These people protest because... if we don't stand up for the rights of others, even if we don't agree with (them), we would see our own freedoms taken from us? Now we have Presidential elections and the one that's won, he is the one who will shout the loudest, "Murder the babies within!" The ones that will win will shout the loudest, "Homosexuality is no sin!"

Do not be deceived...

[lottiepop]

God hates them because a man cannot lie with another man, as with a woman. God created Adam then created Eve secondary to be a mate for man... it's an abomination. There is one happening in California. The man of an abomination stands up there puffed up in pride... He thinks merely passing (laws) to the children, to the school system…no more calling them, "Mom and Dad," no more labeling them, "husband and wife" we must not insult the gays! We must not insult the Muslims!" But may I ask, "Where are the Holy children's rights?" Why did he stay silent? These people protest because... if we don't stand up for the rights of others, even if we don't agree with (them), we would see our own freedoms taken from us? Now we have Presidential elections and the one that's won, he is the one who will shout the loudest, "Murder the babies within!" The ones that will win will shout the loudest, "Homosexuality is no sin!"

Do not be deceived...

That's because homosexuality is NOT a sin. It's perfectly normal. And just for the record you have mentioned about men sleeping with men, but what about women sleeping with women? Are you against that also?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm digusted. Why can't you be more open minded, the LGBT community are humans just like me and you.

Oh and we don't have a consitution really so there is no constitutional law as such. Though why we still allow arseholes like BNP members with racist attacks is beyond me.

[Unknown Entity]

There was me thinking that all Christians were brought up with the whole "Respect you nieghbour!" and "Treat others how you'd wish them to treat you!" stuff. Clearly, I was wrong despite being raised a Christian. Pfft...

I don't understand why people like this can't back the hell off. Instead of making a fuss over nothing, do something worth while? I heard there were 100's of 3rd world countries out there that need help? From... loving Christians? Not a bunch of homophobes?

God hates them because a man cannot lie with another man, as with a woman. God created Adam then created Eve secondary to be a mate for man... it's an abomination. There is one happening in California. The man of an abomination stands up there puffed up in pride... He thinks merely passing (laws) to the children, to the school system…no more calling them, "Mom and Dad," no more labeling them, "husband and wife" we must not insult the gays! We must not insult the Muslims!" But may I ask, "Where are the Holy children's rights?" Why did he stay silent? These people protest because... if we don't stand up for the rights of others, even if we don't agree with (them), we would see our own freedoms taken from us? Now we have Presidential elections and the one that's won, he is the one who will shout the loudest, "Murder the babies within!" The ones that will win will shout the loudest, "Homosexuality is no sin!"

Do not be deceived...

Pfft, for that, I'll have to agree with lottiepop. I don't see how anyone can be insulted by a gay relationship. There is nothing in it to upset anyone. Did anyone religious ever think that maybe... I don't know... God created gay people too? Wasn't that what you are supposed to believe? Yeah, God first made a man and a woman, but if he started out by making two men or women, do you really think there would be a human race today? Please... dig out the Bible and you tell me the exact part where it says "Thout shall not have gay sex!".

I think if anything God would hate the actions of some Christians.

*high-fives*

God loves dead soldiers.

... I'm not religious or anything, but since when did God want there to be soldiers? Who is to say he wanted war in the first place?

God hates fags.

... Since when did someone have a converstation with God, and come to the conclusion that he hates "fags"? Haha, again, does the Bible say that God hates "fags"?

No! Because God didn't write the "Holy Book"! Humans did.

[Govinda]

He's expressing an opinion. So are you. End of.

Who really cares if they're going to, say this with me now, Basingstoke. They will get some funny stares and then be largely ignored. There have been worse campaigns held in the UK. Does anyone remember the Muslim extremists who banded around London with 'BEHEAD THE WESTERNERS!' placards? Nobody really paid attention to them either.

And I'm sure the Bible does have a bit about homosexual sex being wrong. I think.

[Pete]

Well, to be honest I'm not a fan of Phelps or his religious views. I think that people like him are just as bad as the pyscho-religious Muslims and Jews. Every religion has its extremists, and they do nothing but make people of any faith look bad.

That being said, I can understand Phelps and his cronies, because they're doing what they feel is right, but I can also sympathize with the gays because in all honesty you can't really help it when it comes to who you're attracted to and who you love.

And Gov, the whole westerner thing is subjective. The Arabs you talked about probably meant the US and EU, while you thought they meant just the US. If I saw Arabs downtown screaming "death to the west", I'd be thinking "yeah, **** Wyoming."

And the Bible talks all about Soddom and Gomorrah, and also talks about spilling of the seed. So in short, we're all going to Hell unless we're making babies 24/7.

[Govinda]

And Gov, the whole westerner thing is subjective. The Arabs you talked about probably meant the US and EU, while you thought they meant just the US.

The people of London aren't fans of the US either. I know the Arabs meant the EU. It's western culture. Their target was not subjective.

[Furore]

Pfft, for that, I'll have to agree with lottiepop. I don't see how anyone can be insulted by a gay relationship. There is nothing in it to upset anyone. Did anyone religious ever think that maybe... I don't know... God created gay people too? Wasn't that what you are supposed to believe? Yeah, God first made a man and a woman, but if he started out by making two men or women, do you really think there would be a human race today? Please... dig out the Bible and you tell me the exact part where it says "Thout shall not have gay sex!".

To expand on that last part, I've read the bible a few times and homosexuals themselves I do not recall being condemned, I believe it was more lustful acts not involving recreation. Wanking is another example of this. And I feel it's as lustful acts can bridge a gap between a Christian and his God. Especially if a person comes to hold the object of their affection before God.

And I also believe a lot of the problems of the world are people being afraid of what they cannot understand. I feel it's silly as other people 'sinning' doesn't mean they have to. If anything it merely throws more temptation their way making their sufferage greater therefore giving them a more well deserved seat in the afterlife said person believes in. Seems to be what most Christians are taught anyways. The whole suffering equals greater reward thing anyways.

*high-fives*

Right back at ya.

[Casanova[OCAU]]

God hates them because a man cannot lie with another man, as with a woman. God created Adam then created Eve secondary to be a mate for man... it's an abomination. There is one happening in California. The man of an abomination stands up there puffed up in pride... He thinks merely passing (laws) to the children, to the school system…no more calling them, "Mom and Dad," no more labeling them, "husband and wife" we must not insult the gays! We must not insult the Muslims!" But may I ask, "Where are the Holy children's rights?" Why did he stay silent? These people protest because... if we don't stand up for the rights of others, even if we don't agree with (them), we would see our own freedoms taken from us? Now we have Presidential elections and the one that's won, he is the one who will shout the loudest, "Murder the babies within!" The ones that will win will shout the loudest, "Homosexuality is no sin!"

Do not be deceived...

Allow me to quote a great thinker of our age.

People who believe in god are like those people who believe they had an imaginary friend when they were little. Only, it's like they never grew up in this aspect.

Now, if you want to go believe in your imaginary friend or jebus or pink unicorn or thor or whatever you crazy kids want to call it these days, please don't let me stop you. However, don't ask me to join your delusion.

Believe in god? Cool. Reckon god hates gays, and you aren't gay? Good for you.

However, I think we've come far enough as a species to be able to respect at least be civil to those we don't disagree with. You don't see gay people picketing churches for saying they're delusional do you? No! They let all the delusional congregate and brew and fondle your children or whatever you lot tend to do. Similarly, all the gay people ask for is to extend a similar curtsy.

I don't think I can be any more succinct than this.

[Angantyr]

Every time I come back to these forums I see you crying about something, this is a video game forum and there's young people here who shouldn't have to see these kind of threads every day. God forbid their parents actually have the right to tell them. Stop the threads about homosexuality, please stop crying... I mean seriously it's getting old really. I'm starting to think this is just an elaborate troll.

[Phantom]

That's because homosexuality is NOT a sin. It's perfectly normal. And just for the record you have mentioned about men sleeping with men, but what about women sleeping with women? Are you against that also?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm digusted. Why can't you be more open minded, the LGBT community are humans just like me and you.

Oh and we don't have a consitution really so there is no constitutional law as such. Though why we still allow arseholes like BNP members with racist attacks is beyond me.

I Agree, I heard of those who put down men sleeping with men, but I rarely see anyone saying anything about women sleeping with women. Sorry in advance if I offend anyone with this next sentence. A Majority of Straight men see lesbians as hot tickets to their sexual fantasies, but when it comes to other men most start to ***** about some dude checking them out. I remember when I was at the movies a few months ago with Avery, we shared a kiss and the guys in back of us silently started calling us fags. I forgot to mention that we were on a double date with a couple of our lesbian friends of which when they kissed the guys were all like "Aww **** yeah!!" So while we get called fags the ladies get the thumbs up, its kinda sad. Not saying all straight men think this way but the majority I've seen are like this. Now I'm reminded of the "WE LOVE LESBIANS" chant you hear on Jerry Springer, but never hear a chant for Gay guys.

Ok sorry I went a bit off topic. Anyway I do agree with Dr. Egon about they having immunity with that Freedom of Speech law but they really abuse that right to a certain extent. I also agree with Silver that if there was a God (I'm not religious but just saying) if there was a God I would think this God would be furious with the way humans take his or her (who knows ) words out of context and misinterpent them to cause harm.

[Imposter]

I also agree with the latter part of what Silver said Phantom. Too many people take advantage of something God says for themselves but fail to look at the totality of what He has said.

About the whole lesbian's being accepted more so by straight men. I agree with what you say Phantom it is because it appeals to there own lust more so than a group of homosexual men. Which of course leads to unfair treatment, but such is what happens when majority rules right? By saying that I'm not condoning it at all though.

I'm curious though as to why it is just Christianity that seems to hold a view of homosexuality as being sinful or something that displeases God. Can comeone from another religion illuminate?

[Furore]

I'm curious though as to why it is just Christianity that seems to hold a view of homosexuality as being sinful or something that displeases God. Can comeone from another religion illuminate?

Seeing how a lot of the old testament is shared by Christians, Jews and Muslims, I'd think it's highly likely that a good percentage of religions are against acts of homosexuality to some extent. But I also feel it's how members of said religions and even denominations/sects themselves choose to interpret the wording.

But I feel that though religion may have a great influence as quite often religion and culture seem closely intertwined despite what people want to believe, the biggest thing is what the society in question sees as acceptable. This view would be influenced by such things as cultural customs, religious customs, previous ideas held by the collective group and possibly observation of the effects living a certain way can have on the collective (but bare in mind these could be quite outdated if the times have changed that much that they might no longer apply).

Christianity may get singled out moreso than other groups as a good percentage of the world are Christian, hell a good percentage are devotees of Catholicism on it's own. I think as of the last chart I saw a year or four back, Catholicism sat at around 20% of the global population while Christianity (including Catholicism) was around 35%.

But when it comes down to it, once upon a time there was a need to recreate heaps to create vast numbers of meatshields to throw at the other meatshields of neighbouring communities. These days many of the meatshields are educated well enough to know that fighting is their choice as well as the consequences of their actions as the enemy might not be as evil as it was once portrayed. Perceptions do kind of get flipped on their head with the aid of global media. Propaganda loses a ton of it's power. And now that the global population is growing as it is, and there is much less retarded fighting over resources or an inch of extra country border, people really don't have to be in a reproducing relationship so much. That to me was the cultural or practical side to it, religious interpretation does seem to be the biggest current factor (and probably the previous biggest factor regardless of practicality) in interpretations of what is right or wrong.

I'm a Christian btw, just thought it'd be interesting to get those ideas out, especially as I did Studies of Religion (a general course showing aspects of several religions) solely out of interest. And I don't get why people can't just stay cool. Not like homosexuals are trying to convert Christians to homosexuality or something.

[Sasquatch]

That's because homosexuality is NOT a sin. It's perfectly normal.

Not only is homosexuality a sin under the Bible, it's not "normal" by any means.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm digusted. Why can't you be more open minded, the LGBT community are humans just like me and you.

Just because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they're not open-minded.

There was me thinking that all Christians were brought up with the whole "Respect you nieghbour!" and "Treat others how you'd wish them to treat you!" stuff. Clearly, I was wrong despite being raised a Christian. Pfft...

Christianity may not have as many (or as powerful) extremists as Islam does, but every religion and ideal has people that take it too far and use it to further their own personal beliefs.

I heard there were 100's of 3rd world countries out there that need help? From... loving Christians? Not a bunch of homophobes?

Most third-world countries that need help have policies towards homosexuals that are much stricter than any American society places upon them. But if they were to do something good -- say, feed a village in Africa -- wouldn't that be more important than their stances?

Did anyone religious ever think that maybe... I don't know... God created gay people too?

Considering the fact that nothing has ever come remotely close to proving that sexuality (other than heterosexuality) is decided since birth ... there's nothing that lends any credence to the idea that "God created gay people" to be gay.

Please... dig out the Bible and you tell me the exact part where it says "Thout shall not have gay sex!".

Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 are pretty straight-forward. Genesis 19 is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, which were destroyed because of their sexual immorality, which included homosexual sex.

... I'm not religious or anything, but since when did God want there to be soldiers? Who is to say he wanted war in the first place?

There are multiple calls to combat in the Bible. There are also many calls for defense. These include, but are not limited to Luke 22:36, where Jesus says, "if you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

And the Bible talks all about Soddom and Gomorrah, and also talks about spilling of the seed. So in short, we're all going to Hell unless we're making babies 24/7.

Actually, the "spilling of the seed" thing must be taken in context -- one man was being commanded to have children, and he'd pull out and "spill his seed" on the ground instead of in his wife -- so in that specific instance, he was doing something wrong, because it was against what God had told him to do. The Bible refers to "dirty thoughts" and lust as sins, but it was the Catholic Church completely that came up with the idea that the only non-evil sex was missionary style.

People who believe in god are like those people who believe they had an imaginary friend when they were little. Only, it's like they never grew up in this aspect.

Now, if you want to go believe in your imaginary friend or jebus or pink unicorn or thor or whatever you crazy kids want to call it these days, please don't let me stop you.

Just wondering here -- really, how long can you go without insulting people who don't agree with you? I mean hell, trying to liken people who believe in God to "imaginary friends" and "pink unicorns"?

Damn all those ignorant, closed-minded people, claiming that they're right and anybody who disagrees with them is wrong, or that those whose beliefs don't match up are brainwashed ... and oh, that's not even talking about religious people.

However, I think we've come far enough as a species to be able to respect at least be civil to those we don't disagree with.

Are you trying to use Westboro Baptist as a representative of all of Christianity?

You don't see gay people picketing churches for saying they're delusional do you? No!

Actually, I have seen that. It was a semi-regular occurance during the Proposition 8 battle in California, and it's not uncommon for other advocates of homosexuality to protest religious conventions.

They let all the delusional congregate and brew and fondle your children or whatever you lot tend to do.

While I'm no fan of the Catholic Church or Catholocism, it is extremely ignorant to try to insult them for the few child molestation cases that have come up. When was the last time you called out the public school system? After all, children are more than two hundred times more likely to be molested by a public school employee than by a church employee.

EDIT: Five minutes before I get negative rep from this? Damn. Nice

[Phantom]

Seeing how a lot of the old testament is shared by Christians, Jews and Muslims, I'd think it's highly likely that a good percentage of religions are against acts of homosexuality to some extent. But I also feel it's how members of said religions and even denominations/sects themselves choose to interpret the wording.

But I feel that though religion may have a great influence as quite often religion and culture seem closely intertwined despite what people want to believe, the biggest thing is what the society in question sees as acceptable. This view would be influenced by such things as cultural customs, religious customs, previous ideas held by the collective group and possibly observation of the effects living a certain way can have on the collective (but bare in mind these could be quite outdated if the times have changed that much that they might no longer apply).

Christianity may get singled out moreso than other groups as a good percentage of the world are Christian, hell a good percentage are devotees of Catholicism on it's own. I think as of the last chart I saw a year or four back, Catholicism sat at around 20% of the global population while Christianity (including Catholicism) was around 35%.

But when it comes down to it, once upon a time there was a need to recreate heaps to create vast numbers of meatshields to throw at the other meatshields of neighbouring communities. These days many of the meatshields are educated well enough to know that fighting is their choice as well as the consequences of their actions as the enemy might not be as evil as it was once portrayed. Perceptions do kind of get flipped on their head with the aid of global media. Propaganda loses a ton of it's power. And now that the global population is growing as it is, and there is much less retarded fighting over resources or an inch of extra country border, people really don't have to be in a reproducing relationship so much. That to me was the cultural or practical side to it, religious interpretation does seem to be the biggest current factor (and probably the previous biggest factor regardless of practicality) in interpretations of what is right or wrong.

I'm a Christian btw, just thought it'd be interesting to get those ideas out, especially as I did Studies of Religion (a general course showing aspects of several religions) solely out of interest. And I don't get why people can't just stay cool. Not like homosexuals are trying to convert Christians to homosexuality or something.

It would be something funny if homosexuals did try to convert Christians. I can imagine me walking up to a Christian dude and knocking him out and giving him the best blow*** of his life, and he says: "OMG I get more sexual pleasure from a guy then a woman! Gay all the way!". LOL that would be strange through. I know my ropes not to cross especially when it comes to hitting on a hot guy who just happens to be a homophobe or a very radical Christian. But really I honestly dont think you can convert anyone to anything unless they want it in their hearts. If its not in their hearts then its not what they are or what they want for themselves, something I wish most Christians would try to understand since they are so set to being Gay is a choice blah blah blah. I knew in my heart I was Gay from the start. No one converted me or made me choose wheither to be gay or straight, I knew what I liked and how I felt.

Honestly ladies and Gentlemen, I dont think we are born with a sexually. Our sexually isn't on a default level from birth, its basically hanging in the air until you feel it out, you all understand what I mean right? When you get alittle older you will begin to "feel it out" for yourselves until you know what it is you are. I wish most Christians would be more open minded and open themselves to those possiblities instead of baseing it all on something you take out of context from a book.

[OceanEyes28]

I dunno, Phantom, I don't think being heterosexual is any more of a choice than being homosexual. And I mean really truly heterosexual, not repressed and angry and in denial. I know when a woman is attractive, but when I'm having sex with a man, I'm sure not thinking about girls. Just like I'm sure boobs and vag ain't on your mind when you get it on with your respective man.

I'm going to share a couple quotes from this book I've been reading on and off.

"We are living in a time when a new consciousness is arising in which there is a growing recognition that for homosexual people their only 'sin' seems to be that they were born with a sexual orientation different from that of the majority. Yet we now know that orientation to be perfectly normal. It is like other minority positions within the human family: left-handedness, red hair. Minority positions, when not understood, tend to frighten people, and in their fear people strike out to protect themselves by rejecting and sometimes killing the different ones. That is understandable; we know why it happens. But it is evil nonetheless, and when it is validated with appeals to God and 'God's Word,' its evil reaches demonic levels."

And

"Overwhelming scientific and medical knowledge exists today pointing to an inescapable conclusion. Sexual orientation is not a moral choice. It is something to which people awaken. It is therefore not morally culpable. The texts in Leviticus 18 and 20 are simply wrong. They are morally incompetent because they are based on ignorance. They should be viewed, as should so much else in Leviticus and the rest of the Torah, as stages in human development that we have outgrown, that we have been educated beyond and have therefore abandoned. To quote these texts to justify our prejudices and even our violence destroys the very essence of what Christians say they believe about God. The God who is love, the God who is heard through the words of Jesus promising life more abundantly, the description of the way others will recognize our desire to follow Jesus 'by our love,' are all violated if the texts of Leviticus 18 and 20 are given legitimacy."

He goes on to talk about the story of Sodom, but I haven't read that far. The book is called The Sins of Scripture by John Shelby Spong (a retired Episcopalian bishop), and some of his thoughts on this subject seemed appropriate. It's sad that the Bible's texts can be used to justify so much hatred and attention-seeking in some people. On the somewhat bright side the really extreme cases, like this one, aren't taken very seriously.

Anywho. Just thought I'd share.

[Sasquatch]

I know my ropes not to cross especially when it comes to hitting on a hot guy who just happens to be a homophobe or a very radical Christian.

Most guys would take a homosexual come-on the same way they would as a woman who they aren't attracted to. Flattered, but no thanks. There are some who would take offense, and few who would go even further and resort to violence, but they aren't many. Unless it's something like an ass grab, but most guys know not to walk up to somebody they're attracted to and sexually assault them, no matter what sex they are.

Honestly ladies and Gentlemen, I dont think we are born with a sexually. Our sexually isn't on a default level from birth, its basically hanging in the air until you feel it out, you all understand what I mean right? When you get alittle older you will begin to "feel it out" for yourselves until you know what it is you are.

Is it the same way with pedophiles and zoophiles, or only the sexualities you agree with?

I know when a woman is attractive, but when I'm having sex with a man, I'm sure not thinking about girls.

Contrary to the opinions of some, many (probably most) heterosexuals are like that. I can look at an attractive guy and think "hey, he's attractive" without sexual thoughts ever coming into question.

"We are living in a time when a new consciousness is arising in which there is a growing recognition that for homosexual people their only 'sin' seems to be that they were born with a sexual orientation different from that of the majority. ..."

Is sexuality determined from birth, or is it not?

"... Yet we now know that orientation to be perfectly normal. It is like other minority positions within the human family: left-handedness, red hair. ..."

... except for the fact that somebody can use their left hand their entire life, or have red hair their entire life, and still pass on their left-handed or red-haired genes.

"... Minority positions, when not understood, tend to frighten people, and in their fear people strike out to protect themselves by rejecting and sometimes killing the different ones. ..."

A few hundred or thousand years ago, sure. Not anymore, in today's first-world cultures.

"... That is understandable; we know why it happens. But it is evil nonetheless, and when it is validated with appeals to God and 'God's Word,' its evil reaches demonic levels."

Why is it any more "evil" or "demonic" when it's done for one cause than for another?

"Overwhelming scientific and medical knowledge exists today pointing to an inescapable conclusion. Sexual orientation is not a moral choice. It is something to which people awaken. It is therefore not morally culpable. ..."

So there's nothing wrong or abnormal at all about zoophiles or pedophiles?

The texts in Leviticus 18 and 20 are simply wrong. ... To quote these texts to justify our prejudices and even our violence destroys the very essence of what Christians say they believe about God. ..."

So Christians shouldn't follow the Bible? People that believe in God are being hypocritical of they follow what they believe to be the Word of God?

He goes on to talk about the story of Sodom, but I haven't read that far.

I'd highly recommend reading and fully understanding the story of Sodom and Gommorah before reading his take on it. At the very least, you'll understand his version better.

[Jin]

A few hundred or thousand years ago, sure. Not anymore, in today's first-world cultures.

Burying your head in the sand are you?

So there's nothing wrong or abnormal at all about zoophiles or pedophiles?

No. Unless your definitions of 'wrong' and 'abnormal' are both 'uncommon'.

Is sexuality determined from birth, or is it not?

Is it relevant? Either way, it's not something that's controlled, with the exception of those who lie to themselves. I didn't chose to find red hair attractive. I just do. What does it matter if that's determined from birth or not?

[OceanEyes28]

I think you can be a Christian and still recognize that the Bible was written thousands of years ago.

I do not understand how anyone can saddle God with the assumptions that are made by the biblical authors, warped as they are both by their lack of knowledge and by the tribal and sexist prejudices of that ancient time. Do we honor God when we assume that the primitive consciousness found on the pages of scripture, even when it is attributed to God, is somehow righteous?

According to the Bible, women are the source of evil. We are meant as property and are said to have no understanding of the realities of human life. Do you believe that? Do you follow that particular "Word of God" or do you have respect for members of the opposite sex?

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. If it does, then okay, maybe Christianity isn't the religion for me if it's so rigid and black and white. I'll work that out on my own. But I just don't think it's sensible - the idea that if you don't believe in the creation story and the sin of homosexuality and femininity then you can't be a Christian. It's in the Bible, after all.

Oh, and comparing homosexuality to zoophilia and pedophilia is insulting at best. Animals and children have an innocence and a helplessness against a grown man or woman. We protect them because they are easily victimized. Two gay men or gay women have an equal understanding, and one participant does not need to be protected from the other.

[Jin]

Oh, and comparing homosexuality to zoophilia and pedophilia is insulting at best. Animals and children have an innocence and a helplessness against a grown man or woman. We protect them because they are easily victimized. Two gay men or gay women have an equal understanding, and one participant does not need to be protected from the other.

I don't think he meant it that way. I don't want to speak for him, but I believe he's wondering where and how you draw the line. To say homosexuality isn't wrong because one does not chose his or her orientation and then to say that the other orientations he mentioned are unacceptable is a difficult position to defend, without playing the morality card, which is of course the same card religion plays against homosexuality and then you get into a subjective morality battle that will see no end.

I'm not saying that homosexuality and the others are or should be legally equal, but if one does not chose their sexual orientation, they're no different, other than what they're directed against (and of course the same could be said for heterosexuality). You have to use a "freedom within limits" argument to reconcile accepting homosexuality without accepting pedophilia and the like.

Sorry if I am misrepresenting you, Sasquatch, feel free to say so and clarify.

[Phantom]

Here is updated headline concerning the "God Hates Fags" Church who wants to protest in Basingstoke. This was added today.

God Hates Fags preacher will be denied entry says UK Border Agency - from Pink News - all the latest gay news from the gay community - Pink News

God Hates Fags preacher will be denied entry says UK Border Agency:

Two American fundamentalist Christians have been excluded from entering the UK after they threatened to protest in Basingstoke.

Rev Fred Phelps and Shirley Phelps-Roper are leading members of the Westboro Baptist Church, a small Kansas-based sect.

The group claimed on their website GodHatesFags.com that they would be protesting at a performance of a gay-themed play in Basingstoke tomorrow.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has reportedly excluded them from the country, despite the widespread belief that they had no intention of coming to the UK.

While WBC have conducted hundreds of pickets in the US, they have failed to appear at promised protests in other countries.

"Both these individuals have engaged in unacceptable behaviour by inciting hatred against a number of communities," a UK Border Agency spokesman told The Sun.

"The government has made it clear it opposes extremism in all its forms.

"The exclusions policy is targeted at all those who seek to stir up tension and provoke others to violence regardless of their origins and beliefs."

Other members of WBC will also be excluded.

Pressure to ban the WBC came from various groups, include LGBT Labour. LGBT Labour co-chair Simon Wright said:

"This is great news and it shows the Labour Government takes homophobia very seriously.

"We are very pleased that the Home Secretary has barred these preachers of homophobic hatred from our country.

"It sends a strong message that homophobia, like other forms of hatred, are not welcome in the UK."

Earlier this month the Home Office banned a Dutch MP who is critical of Islam from entering the UK because it was judged he would harm community relations.

WBC responded on their website:

"You British Bastards will not have Jesus Christ to rule over you, and think you can issue bans and pass laws to remove God’s word from the landscape.

"You do greatly err, not knowing the power of God; and, you do that against your own interests. It is a great kindness to have God’s prophets in your land.

"But, you ungrateful brutes despise knowledge. It is too late for the UK. God Hates You! God’s wrath and destruction is all that’s left for you, thanks to Secretary Smith."

The church members, who are mostly relations of Mr Phelps, regularly picket funerals claiming the deaths are God's punishment for the country's support of homosexuals.

They have caused so much distress picketing at funerals of soldiers killed in action that they have been restricted from doing so in 22 American states.

The group first came to prominence more than a decade ago when they protested a the funeral of murdered gay man Matthew Shepard.

In October 1998 Matthew was kidnapped, severely beaten and left to die, tied to a fence on the outskirts of Laramie, Wyoming.

Five weeks later members of the Tectonic Theatre Project went to Laramie, and over the course of the next year, conducted more than 200 interviews with people of the town.

From these interviews they wrote the play The Laramie Project, a chronicle of the life of the town in the year after the murder. WBC claimed that a student production tomorrow night in Basingstoke was to be the target of WBC's first UK protest

[Sasquatch]

Burying your head in the sand are you?

Not at all. In modern society as a whole, no "fear" of any minority leads to discrimination or murder.

No. Unless your definitions of 'wrong' and 'abnormal' are both 'uncommon'.

You're saying that there's nothing wrong at all with wanting to screw little kids?

Is it relevant?

Just showing that it's something many homosexuals get defensive about, yet even their supporters can't figure it out.

Either way, it's not something that's controlled, with the exception of those who lie to themselves.

You sure? There have been conflicting studies -- most of which show that there is no natural cause for changes in sexuality.

I didn't chose to find red hair attractive. I just do. What does it matter if that's determined from birth or not?

Because, as I already pointed out, if it is genetic and determined since birth, you can pass on those genes so that your children will find red hair attractive as well. There are no "homosexual genes".

I think you can be a Christian and still recognize that the Bible was written thousands of years ago.

So it's alright to be Christian, just not alright to follow the Christian holy book. Gotcha.

According to the Bible, women are the source of evil. We are meant as property and are said to have no understanding of the realities of human life.

Please point out to me what passages you get this idea from.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. If it does, then okay, maybe Christianity isn't the religion for me if it's so rigid and black and white.

Then Christianity isn't the religion for you. You either believe it or you don't.

But I just don't think it's sensible - the idea that if you don't believe in the creation story and the sin of homosexuality and femininity then you can't be a Christian.

While there is no "sin of femininity", you got the rest right -- you can either believe the Bible, or not.

Oh, and comparing homosexuality to zoophilia and pedophilia is insulting at best. Animals and children have an innocence and a helplessness against a grown man or woman.

I didn't mention bestiality or child molestation, I brought up zoophilia and pedophilia. There's a difference.

... if one does not chose their sexual orientation, they're no different, other than what they're directed against (and of course the same could be said for heterosexuality). You have to use a "freedom within limits" argument to reconcile accepting homosexuality without accepting pedophilia and the like.

Sorry if I am misrepresenting you, Sasquatch, feel free to say so and clarify.

Nah, you got it. Thanks.

Two American fundamentalist Christians have been excluded from entering the UK after they threatened to protest in Basingstoke.
...
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has reportedly excluded them from the country, despite the widespread belief that they had no intention of coming to the UK.
...
Earlier this month the Home Office banned a Dutch MP who is critical of Islam from entering the UK because it was judged he would harm community relations.
...

That's a little much, ain't it? I mean, I know these people are complete shitbags, but isn't it a little fascist to say, "we won't let you into our country if we disagree with you"?

EDIT: Again, I didn't mention child molestation or bestiality. I mentioned pedophilia and zoophilia. A pedophile can go through life without ever touching a child, just like somebody who gets off on struggle or pain can go through life without ever raping somebody. I posted a similar topic in a Facebook group, and was responded to in one of two ways -- I was either insulted, called a homophobe (or even a homosexual, myself) for likening homosexuality with pedophilia and zoophilia; or I was told that pedophilia and zoophilia, along with homosexuality, are just "preferences", like heterosexuality, or liking red hair or Asian girls. So it was either, "you're evil and hateful for saying they're similar," or, "they're all the same and there's nothing wrong with any of them."

[Govinda]

I read the story about the Home Secretary's decision and smiled. It's not too far as far as I, and most of the UK, are concerned. They didn't state their reason for coming to the UK as 'To see the sights' or 'Protest against a political action'. Their stated intention was to come over and tell British gay people that they're all hell-bound. If they'd got here the police presence would've been huge. They would've been beaten up. We do not need excuses to start fights.

I think it's been said before, but the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia/zoophilia is consent. Legally, a child/animal cannot consent to sexual acts; a fully grown male can consent to do whatever he likes with others capable of consent. I only scanned through what people were saying, to be honest, so that's all I have to say.

[lottiepop]

"You British Bastards will not have Jesus Christ to rule over you, and think you can issue bans and pass laws to remove God’s word from the landscape.

"You do greatly err, not knowing the power of God; and, you do that against your own interests. It is a great kindness to have God’s prophets in your land.

"But, you ungrateful brutes despise knowledge. It is too late for the UK. God Hates You! God’s wrath and destruction is all that’s left for you, thanks to Secretary Smith."

KTHXBAI

Seriously though, go ahead insult my country, I'm a British Bastard according to this shitty sect of weirdos. Oh noes our country is doomed. Oh well at least it's better than being caught up in a nutty religious group.

EDIT: I was talking about the churches, not about phantom, sorry for any confusion.