General Chat Thread. (Discussion of the idea, not the actual thread.)

[Inagi]

Been a while since I've shown up much, yah? Might change soon, I moved so my odd IP ban will be gone, hopefully. Odd eh? Anyways.

Looking around, I've not seen one, so I figured I'd throw this idea around.

While members know each other well enough through word games and various other threads, we don't really know much of how we all work. There's no true, 100% social aspect. (Sure there's pms and things but..it's all a bit closed. I mean open social aspect.)

I've been bouncing around forums lately, and communities where there is a chat thread, or chat room, seem incredibly more tight-knit and knowledgeable of each-other. People interact better.

The thread itself would have no topic. None. I, or the thread starter, could just say..something. The relevance would be to nothing, but it would go on and people would segway into something else. Then into something else.

Then into something else. Like a real chat should go.
Now, groundwork would have to be laid, and it would have to be monitored. People do a fairly decent job or reporting though.

I would like to think people here have a fairly decent amount of common sense of where to not go overboard. No excessive perversion, or flaming, etc.

In the end, the point here is to discuss the idea. Do people like it, what do the mods think..ideas, etc.

Thoughts?

[RagnaToad]

The TFF Council has been discussing to bring back TFF Chat, if Fuzz can bring it back.

I don't see how a thread like this would NOT promote spamming.

There is no need for a thread in which really anything can be said. The General Chat forum can contain all kinds of threads about almost any subject.

[Inagi]

I don't follow the concept of "There's no need" and "Spamming."

..Why not? Is it really that big of a deal?
People are so bent on old concepts of keeping a forum spam free that they have lost sight of what "Spam" really is.

As long as people are communing, what is the problem? Talking is talking, and as long as people are getting a long and enjoying what is spoken by everyone else, isn't that good?

Isn't that supposed to be part of a community?

Also, on the note of General Chat having any subject.
What about subjects that don't deserve a whole thread?
Like "Hey guys, I got a new PS3 today."
Then people start talking about PS3s and PS3 games, or games in general.

Then someone talks about something silly their cat did, and everyone laughs.
Those don't deserve real threads, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be said.

[Polk]

Hey guys, I got a new PS3 today.

Then my cat did something really funny.

[Rocky]

Hey guys, I got a new PS3 today.

Man I love PS3s!!! Except that they're too expensive! poor college student FTL... Actually you know what, I'm okay with my trip-sixtay actually, because it has FF13 coming out for it, has good online play, and I really can't complain about anything else, besides the fact that I have to send it in once a year for repairs, it seems.

Then my cat did something really funny.

Oh those cats and their funniness, I can't get enough of it! LOL but I really like dogs better you see because they're funny as well and everyone likes dogs, like could anyone do something mean to dogs? really? I know other people have done wierd things to cats and I've seen it on videos and pictures that I would have been better off not seeing but now that I see it I know that not everyone likes cats because I've seen people put cats in microwaves but who puts a dog in the microwave ya know?

[Govinda]

I don't follow the concept of "There's no need" and "Spamming."

..Why not? Is it really that big of a deal?

Good luck with that. I genuinely mean it.

I've been trying to think of ways to combine my PS3 and my hilarious cat. So far I've designed a furry toaster, but it just looks obscene. Any ideas, community?

[T.G. Oskar]

Well...the TFF chat revival and an in-site thread for general chatting doesn't seem to be as good as an idea as simply going through with IM chatting. It's less bothersome, equally as dramatic (yet pointless to argue with it since it's out-of-site), and it's a tad more liberal than the latter options.

The main trouble with it is that it's unofficial. And at times the chances of landing a chat are astronomically low.

Hey guys, I got a new PS3 today.

Then my cat did something really funny.

Stop. I know what cats can do to threads. It's not funny. NOT FUNNY...

[Walter Sobchak]

What would Fuzz have to do with the TFF Chat? Unless of course you mean something other than the AIM one. Besides, if people like you, they will bring you to the MSN chat.

[Dodie16]

I'm sorry to say that I don't think it's a very good idea to have one thread dedicated to a general chat. It would get way too filled with people talking about different random things.

I have to agree with Ragnatoad. There's already a forum for general chat, so I don't think a thread is necessary.

Hey guys, I got a new PS3 today.

Then my cat did something really funny.

My PS3 is still shiny and new, but I only have one game for it.

My cat is the devil. She tears up my most expensive toys. Her latest victim was my power cord/charger for my laptop. I am running on 26% power and after that, my computer will die. It's going to cost me 75 bucks to replace it.

[RagnaToad]

I like cats. There's something godly in their eyes.

Dogs are just mindles puppets to humans, even though their alleged to be man's 'best friend'. If a dog is your best friend, you've got problems.

Plus the idea of a dog finally realising that he's taking all these commands from you and going psycho on some kid. Nah.

Cats can't really be tamed, but they're divine creatures, I tell ya.

And stuffing your PS3 with cat food isn't a good idea I suppose?

Nor is putting a disc up a cat's arse.

Oh well.

[Meier Link]

I can see what you mean by saying that a chat type thread would be benificial to the forum, bringing people together by letting them freely communicate with other members; if there where no other means of comunication availible. Seeing there are a limitless number of messaging services out there I really don't see the need to have a chat room, shout box, or IMs on TFF.

Currently we have many ways to get to know other members; VMs and PMs are a good example and are already used for general chat purposes. Also there are social groups which enable like minded individuals to express their selves freely on the general topic at hand.

Contact information is availible on most of the TFF regulars, it can be viewed in many ways such TFF member profiles and viewing who's online.

Messenger services are free and easily accessable now adays and every one seems to be using MSN or AIM. I have over 40 contacts on my messenger list and only 2 of them are not from TFF.

As for an actual chat thread in general I would have to say no as I am sure all of the staff will. Focus would be taken off of the forum to a single thread by the members and more then likely it would turn into a 100 posts a day, which is not easily moderated.

Yes our members are good about reporting things but all it takes is one bad comment (Example: Flaming a noob) to set off alot of people crying over spilled milk that the staff will have to clean up.

Group chats could easily turn into spam factories and flamefests. If you have never been on a MSN chat I highly suggest you try one out and that would give you a slight idea of what a chat thread would be like. Every chat I have ever been on MSN could easily wipe out half of out members if it was moderated by TFF staff.

So my take on the matter is a simple no and I will stand by that.

[OceanEyes28]

The problem with a "chat" thread isn't so much that the staff hates when members communicate (other than me, that is ), it's that a thread like this can get so many replies that it's hard to moderate. And this particular thread would get a lot of replies, because it goes toward post count.

I am not completely against an ongoing discussion. But a spam thread is something I'd rather do without

I'm willing to wait for a few more opinions, though, before I do anything moderatorly here.

[nix]

I agree, bloody crap idea.

The thread will be full of lame shit like:

"OMG how r u? wht did u do tday ?"

"i liek pie"



Pages of bs

nah, **** that for a game of darts

[T.G. Oskar]

The problem with a "chat" thread isn't so much that the staff hates when members communicate (other than me, that is ), it's that a thread like this can get so many replies that it's hard to moderate. And this particular thread would get a lot of replies, because it goes toward post count.

I am not completely against an ongoing discussion. But a spam thread is something I'd rather do without

I'm willing to wait for a few more opinions, though, before I do anything moderatorly here.

Fixed and quoted for truth(iness)

At times, such a thread would move at such a speed that you could find yourself with 3 pages within an hour. While all three pages may have small message content (like "OMG so true" or "STFU NOOB!"), it becomes insanely hard when said three pages are full of content, and not just any kind of content. Believe me, I've seen that. And not just any content, essentially a part-by-part response that becomes even larger with time.

Now, imagine that the General Chat mods (like Ally) have to be absent for a day, and for some reason the S-Mods are out for a bite. The prevalent anarchy may be so much that, eventually, the thread will have to be closed for intensive moderation before things run out of control.

Besides, not everyone will probably wish to use any other 3rd party system other than program-compatible Instant Messaging, which means you can make a big, big convo in the blink of an eye, and everything becomes quite informal (and sometimes, a bit out of control as well) It's even worse if it were thread-based, since mostly it would be rapid-fire postings, possible one-line post breeches, and who knows how much spam, left better for places where spam can be tolerated (as in, outside of the forum please)

It's like Godwin's Law (and not it's corollary): given any General Chat/free topic thread, the instance of spam increases with the length of the thread.

[Sean]

i liek pie


I'm on the fence of wether or not I think this is a gewd idea. It could go either way, really. As far as being diffcult to moderate, it's not like mods have to read the entire thread, if someone were to get offended, there's a report post button for a reason.

Other than that, stick said thread into word games or something, or incorporate one of those like bulletin board things into the main forum page, like a facebook wall. You post, once refreshed someone sees what you wrote, etc etc. We used to have one, I think....


so omg how wuz ur day gais?

[Walter Sobchak]

Polk, is your PS3 your first Blu-Ray player? If so, you will enter a world of bliss, if you decide to go that route.

Everyone talking about closing a thread that they posted in should go hang themselves. I don't piss and moan when threads that I find stupid are created (and there are a ton of them).

[loaf]

I know my old forums had a Shout box which allowed everyone to get to know each other better. But I'm not sure if there is a newer hack for it for these boards. Last I heard there wasn't, but that was about 2+ years ago.

[Inagi]

Actually, Loaf.
A shoutbox isn't a bad idea. At all.

Moderating it would be equally difficult, but..I like that.

Thanks for all the replies. Positive and Negative. Sorry, I haven't replied much, only able to internet at Bookstores as of late.

I'd respond to each but it'd be a bit asinine, I've put in my two cents.

[Pete]

Personally, I never saw the issue with aim and msn. It's so retardedly simple and perfect. If you wanna talk to someone, ask for their screen name, and boom, talk to them. It doesn't have to be moderated, and you can talk about anything. Plus, all of the technology has already been created by other people, making it so easy for the admins, because they don't have to do anything.

[Meier Link]

Actually the main problems I have ecountered with shout boxes is that they tend to box servers down some, increasing load times and what not. Really in the long run any forum I have ever been on that has had a shout box has had that problem.

It would be almost impossible to moderate a shout box at some of the speeds I have seen some of them move. Then again it has the same problem that I stated earlier, it really would take the attention away from the forum.

[LocoColt04]

It should come as no surprise that I'm also not against a general discussion thread.

I'm just against a general discussion thread that will get 100 posts a day from the same three or four people, all posting meaningless responses about nothing whatsoever.

If we do a discussion thread, it needs to maintain discussions, progressing through the natural course of a conversation, moving from topic to topic as a group chat would inevitably do. Our fear is the inadvertent creation of a new spam thread, of course.

I'll never forget the day I'd gotten half a dozen PMs with complaints, and the spam thread got 900+ posts while I was at work and because of some flame war in the middle of it, I had to lock the thread and read EVERY POST until I could figure out who to warn for which posts. (It was before the post report system was included with vB.)

[Furore]

I've been trying to think of ways to combine my PS3 and my hilarious cat. So far I've designed a furry toaster, but it just looks obscene. Any ideas, community?

A purring George Foreman grill with cat ears and a tail?

I'll also say I wouldn't mind a 'general chat' type thread, but I think it should have some conditions on it or it'll likely turn into a spillage of the word games section. I'm thinking a minimum word count and maybe a rule against posts that are just one or two word 'I agrees' or whatever as those don't really add anything to the table and could be quite easily said through VMs or whatever.

All you need is someone who could plan such a thread and I sure as hell ain't volunteering.

[loaf]

I could see the thread looking something like this.

Someone can just throw out a topic, anything, either it be a question about anything to throw some small talk through replying with quotes from the person. The only down side would be to look at every reply to find someone who replied if someone did. Since it would be open questions from anyone, or topics to talk about. If someone wants to play to them, they would have to quote their post to show they are talking to them.

[Inagi]

Loco's got the right idea here as always.
But, you also pointed out good issues.

It comes down to a serious measure of keeping people in line.
At first, it seems scary, because shit could get real.
Spam happens.

But, with the new report systems and the like, perhaps if there was a stronger arm with a bigger hammer kept, it would be less of an issue. When someone reaches their hand into the cookie jar, smack the hell out of them. People would learn eventually.

Also, Loaf has the idea as well here. Quotes and the like are an excellent tool to keep separate conversations going. Heck, if done correctly there can be like 3 convesations in a chat thread going at the same time.

[RagnaToad]

@ Inagi: People could indeed just be told when they're out of line or anything, and they would be likely to not do it again anytime soon.

But you have to consider that a lot of noobs would want to participate to this kind of thread, not knowing what the rules are.

Given the new member rate at these forums, and the time it takes for noobs to actually READ the rules, the thread would be a danger zone for all things nooby.

[Che]

Bring back TFF chat! It was the greatest.

[DragonHeart]

One thing that's always bothered me about this forum is how threads die quickly because no one wants to converse for the threat of being warned for spamming or going off topic or something. I'm a member at a professional writer forum and it's so much more lax, which I think is kind of weird, but I also understand maturity is a large part of that. I know it would likely never happen here but to foster discussion in the actual writing forums, they disabled post counts in their general chat areas. This way people are still free to chat but the people who just want to up their post counts won't get anything out of it and thus avoid that forum.

Unfortunately because we have a much younger userbase it probably won't ever be possible with all the kids who will just be posting pointless things, pretty much the spam thread on a large scale. That would indeed be a nightmare.

That said, the VMs and such are nice additions to help make actual conversation more accessible, I just wish the forum on the whole was more supportive of allowing it on the actual boards. Gets boring when all you can post is a direct reply to the OT and not say, something interesting said in a post three pages into the thread.

~DragonHeart~

[RagnaToad]

Bring back TFF chat! It was the greatest.

I agree.

I've been saying that right from the start of the TFF Council's existence. But for some reason, people always think I'm talking about the MSN conversations.

And I'm not talking about the new members only.

Even Sheena and Nixon didn't understand what I was on about.

[Walter Sobchak]

Even Sheena and Nixon didn't understand what I was on about.

Well, what are you on about?

The only thing I can remember is the "TFF Chat" on AIM, which people could join in themselves. Was there some sort of official TFF thing that I don't know about?

[Victoria]

I know what Ragna is talking about.
For a short time, there was this chatroom engine that Fuzz had installed at TFF, that people could use to chat with. It wasn't a Java IRC room or anything, but it was like a chatroom... thing.

It wasn't MSN or AIM. It used to be on the navigational header, but it's been lost in transition. I'll have to talk to Fuzz to see if he can bring it back.

Although really, at this point in time, everyone uses MSN and/or AIM. If the TFF Chat was brought back, what was the point of creating the IM address book sticky thread? -_-;