Whether it be a serial killer, a lowlife who does nothing but harm others physically+mentally, or maybe just someone who has wronged you in such a way that there's no coming back from it. I often wonder what drives people to murder others, more often than not, they are crimes of 'passion'. So why is it that we judge those on the act, but not those who fuel and motivate such acts? Why is there law so black in white in terms of right and wrong? Justice serves to hear both sides of a story, but never delivers based on that principle when it comes to a verdict. In most cases, the offender is found guilty for 'breaking the law'. In most cases, child custody is granted to the woman, regardless of living conditions (the husband must pay child support to make that end meet instead of gaining custody for himself). But an act of murder, assault, rape, theft etc can be given lenience because of race/past social conditioning?
I kind of went off topic here I think.
Question stands, Do you believe some people deserve to die?
Life is a sacred thing to me...but that opens up the debate into religious territory so I'll just say I have a firm spiritual belief in the sacredness of things which are alive.
But then, I ask myself, is my definition of what is alive wide enough?? You can see the kinds of conundrums this makes me go through.
"I find this all to be highly inappropriate."
I believe in the equal punishment for equal crime. I also believe that getting revenge for the murder of a loved one against the offender should be absolutely legal. That is if the crime was pre meditated or personally induced rage or hatred not necessarily for like lets say a accidental hit and run per se. Honestly, child predators, evil murderers, rapists, etc deserve punishment that fits the crime that is legally able to be brought about by the loved ones of said victim.
Good topic by the way.
Your comment, for some reason, made me think of this song:Originally Posted by Master Garland
I, for one, disagree with you, and feel that only in such cases as the villainous intent was of a certain type of pure nastiness toward every type of life, and that keeping said person alive would likely cost more lives and money than killing them, unless both those conditions are met to my satisfaction, I do not think penalty by death is a good thing.
Men should not be quick to deal out death and judgement, that is a one-way ticket to murderville and I don't wanna live in a place called murderville.
(Spits)
"I find this all to be highly inappropriate."
Absolutely. Some people are nothing but a detriment to the world, and we'd be better off with them dead
For Our Lord Sheogorath, without Whom all Thought would be linear and all Feeling would be fleeting. Blessed are the Madmen, for they hold the keys to secret knowledge. Blessed are the Phobic, always wary of that which would do them harm. Blessed are the Obsessed, for their courses are clear. Blessed are the Addicts, may they quench the thirst that never ebbs. Blessed are the Murderous, for they have found beauty in the grotesque. Blessed are the Firelovers, for their hearts are always warm. Blessed are the Artists, for in their hands the impossible is made real. Blessed are the Musicians, for in their ears they hear the music of the soul. Blessed are the Sleepless, as they bask in wakeful dreaming. Blessed are the Paranoid, ever-watchful for our enemies. Blessed are the Visionaries, for their eyes see what might be. Blessed are the Painlovers, for in their suffering, we grow stronger. Blessed is the Madgod, who tricks us when we are foolish, punishes us when we are wrong, tortures us when we are unmindful, and loves us in our imperfection.
Ugh... I'm sorry but I can't stand that song especially that line "we don't need no hairy headed..."(as though men with long hair are inferior weird old fashioned thinking.) Certain laws indeed are good and are for protection but the government can a will oppress if they have the power to do so. Add to that the amount of 'falsely' convicted people that have their lives robbed from them and the sheer number of cop brutality sometimes unprovoked that happens. I'm a person that likes to balance the aspects of the artificial world and natural realm that I appreciate. With that said the 'natural right'(though not carried over to civilization) I really enjoy is the right to defend and kill to the full extent of ones ability to do so out of self defense and vengeance for an loved one. The government should not be able to tell me that I do not have the right to get revenge or defend myself when it goes around killing criminals itself and starting wars killing countless and deforming others in the process at the tax payers cost.
the song is intended to be ironic in the extreme, that should have been clear and Kris Kristoferson probabaly intended it that way, the man is bearded out to heck
:[ sorry if i troubled you
"I find this all to be highly inappropriate."
Who was it that said; "To those that would sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither"
I feel like given the way our judicial system works, people live in fear of themselves not knowing whether or not they will be trialed for defending themselves against assailants etc. What I think the world would really love to see, or at least where I live, is a vigilante to dish the justice so many of us are deprived of. The idea of a vigilante is exciting for a few reasons, 2 of the main for me personally is the satisfaction of seeing proper justice delivered and the most important example, that police cannot protect criminals anymore.
Sorry, I am slow to understand satire or parodies sometimes. I had no previous knowledge of that singer and it was the first time hearing the song so it went over my head :sigh: It's alright Spooniest; it's cool there was no trouble.
lol no worries
"I find this all to be highly inappropriate."
No.
- It's too easy for such a power to be abused by a tyrant.
- It's too easy to make a mistake accusing someone of something for which the penalty is death,
- and impossible to reverse the sentence.
- All people have intrinsic dignity and a right to life, it's the foundation of all other freedoms.
Actually, this is something that has bothered me for years. There are many evangelical Christians in the United States who vote seemingly according to a single issue: abortion. (I don't want to derail into this topic, so please don't pick up on that word.) But why do they vote for candidates who support the death penalty? Now I don't actually know a single evangelical Christian, so is my characterisation wrong?
I am what you'd call an 'evangelist' in that I report what I know of the message of hope and salvation I believe is in the Christian Gospel. Like my dad says, "I'm only advertising. If you have problems, you want management."
I believe the term "Evangelical" has mutated somewhat, to where it has begun to mean something unrecognizable to one simply aware of what the word's denotative definition states. I don't feel like researching it, either, so...well, here we are.
My guess is that the people you speak of would think of me as some oddball philosopher guitarist who lives in a strangely normal neighborhood on a hill in the distant corner of their biggest music industry town aheh.
Southerners is what I want to say, though this attitude has spread quite all over. It is more than simply Redneck, that has some dignity to it; the thinking and voting you speak of is done by trashy people who want to dominate others' will because they feel appointed to some position of defense of the word and power of God...those people do not remain within my vicinity long, when I meet them...
...I kinda sidle over to the other end of the room, you know? ...AWK-ward
"I find this all to be highly inappropriate."
I find it amusing that the same people who are so anti abortion are the same people who send death threats to abortion doctors and support the death penalty.
That being said, some people don't deserve to live. Kiddie diddlers, rapists, terrorists (regardless of ideology) and probably most politicians. That's just a blanket statement of people who should just disappear, and the world would be a better place.
As for the death penalty, I believe that it should be used only when there is irrefutable evidence, and the person is found 100% guilty, with no chance of being wrong. No appeals, no dragging out the cases in court, just a bullet to the brain. Save the taxpayers a lot of money.
If you do something so heinous, you don't deserve a second chance.
Then again, I also believe that the criminal justice and prison system in America is a disaster, but that's another story. The three strikes law put thousands in jail for life for petty crimes, but we have people who have multiple DWIs that are still allowed to get behind the wheel.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
Because abortion doesnt equal murder. They just say it does to justify their belief in the bible that pre-marital sex, or sex in general is sacred or whatever.
In terms of your 4 points against the death penalty, I was of a similar mindset to that. But if only the rules were tweaked enough so that ;
-death penalty applies to those who are guilty without a doubt
-applies to heinous crimes only.(a guy running down people with his car in the street, serial killer etc)
I think the world would be safer without such people. Jill mahar would still be alive, along with many other victims whos deaths have been caused by repeat offenders. I understand the hesitation to give people the right to kill others, especially since corruption also exists.
Do you believe the system we have in place is satisfactory? Do you think prisons serve to rehabilitate or merely provide punishment?
Nah, all humans are equal and thus deserve to live. Well, expect the ones that are truly heinous such as dictators and even then it might only be used as an absolute last resort.
Are you referring to the death penalty, or murder in general?
If you mean death penalty, then the answer is no for these reasons
To support the death penalty you have to believe one of these things:
The criminal justice system never makes mistakes OR The death of innocent people once in a while is acceptable in the pursuit of justice (?)
Last edited by GypsyElder; 06-08-2017 at 01:10 AM.
I think that there are three main ways to interpret the question, and that they can yield different answers. Or at least this thread has evolved into the following questions.
Do you believe in the death penalty?
Do you believe in the murdering of degenerates for the sake of benefiting society as a whole? I'm talking angry mobs here.
Would you be ok with the idea of the people you deem to be degenerates or worthless to society just disappearing forever? Think in terms of a rapture, where the people removed were 100% guilty of whatever makes them scum.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
Abortion of the mid term and late term examples are indeed murder whether that law looks at it that way or not. I don't need a government panel or ruling to tell me what murder is and what is not. Mid-late term babies have well developed brains and even nerve systems and can even feel pain. I have seen some HORRIFIC severed bloody near new born baby sized limbs and baby guts from abortion pics. Some babies even try to move and evade the murder tool from grinding them up.. IT IS MURDER! Sure early onset abortions where the fetus still looks no different than a rat fetus is not murder there is barely any significant growth at that rate. Anyone can google mid to late term abortion a clearly see babies in absolutely miserable states that did hurt when the killing happened. There are PLENTY of people that want to adopt children and babies and there is plenty of room in adoption agencies to fill too so abortion is not the only answer for what to do with unwanted children. Thing is some women make it a habit to be irresponsible, sleep around, and/or not practice preparedness methods and sex safety practices. They then get pregnant left and right and abort like there is no tomorrow and at tax payers money too because state insurance(where I'm from) covers abortions.
As for why one would support death penalty and not abortion well because the baby did nothing and was killed(google it not all abortions are early onset in nature) while the one with the freakin death penalty actually killed someone or maybe 40 people and possibly raped and tortured people and is absolutely useless to the world and they may even kill fellow inmates in prison anyway. While the baby on the other hand could have grown up to be a good person and possibly a innovator but could also become an evil person too but that's generally not likely.
With all that said the bible says that we should forgive others as god has forgiven his faithful believers in union of belief on his sons resurrection. Christians are supposed to leave the fate of a sinner to god and his will. Granted I used to be a Christian but left the faith a while ago.
Just because I'm trans does not mean I buy and purchase all liberal ideals.. I pick and choose.
I don't disagree with you about second and third trimester abortions. I've also seen my fair share of videos. I actually only think that abortions should be allowed in circumstances of rape, incest and profound retardation.
I also believe that it should be a two party system, where the guy involved should get a say in what happens when
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
I am as far from a feminist as it comes (in case some people didnt know),
but shouldn't the woman be in control of what happens to her body?
Yeah in instances of rape, incest, and an innate severe mental or physical deformity of a sort is where I can call it fine during the late trimesters. Considering the fact that issues like those generally only become apparent and actually able to be ascertained during the mid-late trimesters. I also totally agree with the guys having a say as well. Men seem to lack a lot of the rights and legal leverage on what happens in regards to family based issues of all kinds not even just abortion.
There should be some kind of opt out that can be agreed to. A woman should have the right to her body, obviously, but sex is a two party system. What if a woman pokes holes in a condom for the specific reason of trapping a man. Why should a man be liable in that situation?
Sure, you can always make the argument that you shouldn't stick your dick in crazy. That's a given. But why can't the man have the option to legally opt out of everything IF the woman chooses not to have a requested abortion. Sure it's kind of a dick move, but men have little to no rights when it comes to these topics.
I probably sound like a douche.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
Nah you dont sound like a douche. But yeah, it would be almost impossible to prove in court that she poked holes in the condom. Even if you had the packetwith pin holes in it you would probably need to report it to the police or your medical doctor very soon thereafter to insure that its on record if months down the road something were to come of it, you would have at least made a statement to prove that you were trapped/sabotaged.
And yes, men should have the basic right to legally opt out of a relationship, especially if a woman decides she is going to have a baby that was not planned/agreed upon. Because its essentially the woman saying "Yeah im gonna have him pay child support, yep". Did you know one of the biggest causes of male suicide is scenarios such as this? Where the woman leaves the husband, forces him to pay child support and takes custody of the children? You know how it SHOULD work? If a woman cannot support a child, the father should take immediate custody and the MOTHER should pay child support. But no, we are in still trapped in this PC bullshit world where it says that mothers by default are the nurturers and capable parents , even if they are not financially capable or even good mothers on that note. Woman can cheat on their husbands and divorce and take HALF the assets of their partner. The law is in favor of women and its things like feminism that promote the weakness of women and that they should be entitled to these priveledges beacuse they are so weak. I really dont understand the intelligence of some women and then they go on to believe that feminism is a good thing. But who doesn't want to have their cake and eat it too, right?
Just in case those deep blue eyes are reading this, have you seen 'The Red Pill' documentary by ex-feminist Cassie Jaye? Would love to know your opinion on that.
Peace
You two really brought up good points none of which I'd argue against. While I'm not a staunch feminist I can't stand Red Pill because from what I have seen on their reddit page and their videos and community they are mostly really 'sexist' and preach female inferiority. They are also anti transgender as well calling mtf transwomen things like "dudes with mutilated penises" "former beta-cucks" and many other derogatory things. I just would love to see absolute equality between the sexes and lgbt people.
Sorry this WILL be the last time I ever bring trans stuff in the topic I know it must be getting REALLY OLD and I'm sorry I said everything I need to about that.
And no Pete you are definitely not a douche at all.
By the way Rowan.. who is the "Deep Blue Eyes" person you were referencing?
Last edited by Master Garland; 06-15-2017 at 07:38 PM.
Its ironic, but I find that feminists are the ones perpetuating female inferiority. Not a moment goes by where they feel oppressed or subjugated by a man, and if its not a man, its some other reason that is the fault of a man. My evidence for that is that its not women, its feminists who feel this way. That includes men.
Im reffering to miss oceaneyes. I like when she posts.
Yeah, some feminists can be weird like they don't even know WHAT they want. I remember oceaneyes from ages ago I think back when I poster here a bit in 2008.
Just a note, the Red Pill movie and the Red Pill reddit are not associated, and have few to no similarities with one another (here's a little vid by a really nice lady).
I don't think anyone deserves to die, unless they are currently about to cause mortal harm to someone else. That is what I say in a completely hypothetical situation, without emotions attached. I don't know how I would react if I were in the same room as someone who did me or someone else a horrible injustice. I also think, however, that at times, allowing someone to continue to live is a harsher punishment than killing them, and if that's the case, they probably ought to continue living.
I saw abortion came up. I think that, in modern times, with what we know now, Roe vs Wade would not have gone down the way it did, and at least after 23 weeks or so, abortions would probably be illegal. I think people lying to themselves and to each other is the only reason it isn't illegal. What exactly is the difference between a fetus in the 35th to 40th week, and a newborn baby, just delivered? Nothing, biologically. Has all the same organs, nerves, limbs, etc. Feeds from the mother. What magically grants that newborn personhood that the unborn fetus doesn't have? Passage through the uterus? Kinda messed up, isn't that? What's the point of a partial birth abortion, what's more? You're already going through the birthing process. It's all pretty fucked up, if you actually think about it. Which is why certain entities in society don't want you to. "Abortion on demand, without exception." Disgusting.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I don't think people ever deserve to die but I do think there are some people who have done incredibly horrible unforgivable things should be removed from society so they can do no more harm.
I don't believe in making people suffer for their entire life even if they deserve it and sometimes people are such a threat being alive. So sometimes perhaps the best option is death. There are many horrible people in many different ways and it'd be difficult to manage. It is something that needs to be managed though. Sometimes our human rights get in the way of keeping us safe from incredibly unhinged people because we can't bring ourselves to make some difficult choices. It also makes me think of that question is one life worth saving over a million lives? Or vice versa. I'm rambling now and I still am not sure how I feel about this. But it's interesting to think about.
Abortion is murder but I don't think it's wrong. I mean killing someone or something is murder. Euthanasia is murder, putting down your dog is murder. I don't think any of those things are wrong. There are many things in life that aren't black and white and again sometimes hard choices need to be made that some people can't fathom. Also not all women who get abortions do it because they whored around and were irresponsible. Accidents do happen and there are other reasons why someone may make that choice. It's never a nice choice but sometimes a necessary one. I am far from a feminist but if you're pregnant you're probably a woman and I think it'd be a terrible experience to be forced to have a baby if you didn't want to. But I don't believe late abortions are ok unless the baby has severe complications.
Also The Red Pill reddit community vs the actual movies message are very different. Don't do a Andrew Okeefe and assume it's all bad if you haven't even seen it or understand what it's about.
I've rambled my way off the beaten path, I'll show myself out now.
In your mind, then, how far into pregnancy/parenthood can a woman decide that she doesn't want to be a mother? And I don't quite get the comparison of euthanasia or putting your dog down, when most fetuses/newborns don't have things that are wrong with them that would impede their ability to live. Theoretically, that fetus/baby could go on to live a long, happy life, even if his or her mother didn't want him or her. Lots of people would like to adopt (and have been attacked when saying they would like to adopt, I've seen). Can't have children, etc.
I know this is way off topic and I don't expect anyone to agree but I think abortions up to 12 weeks are acceptable anything after that must be in severe circumstances such as result of rape or severe medical issues as I'm not denying that it's a horrible procedure that shouldn't be chosen willy nilly. I just believe it should be an option for those who may ever have to choose it.
I don't think it's ok to force someone into carrying a baby full term. In a perfect world yes that would be great as fathers who want to keep it can and families who want to adopt can but it's not that simple.
I bring euthanasia and putting pets down up because they are also forms of murder, which abortion is also. Euthanasia/putting down is to put an end to pain and suffering but sometimes abortions are chosen for those reasons also. Some abortions are pure selfishness yes, some are to save a life in cases where the mother could die if they give birth, some people choose abortion because they're not financially or mentally stable. It's no one elses business why someone makes that choice except the mother and father. It is sad that in those situation the father really has no standing if the mother doesn't want to go through with it. What it comes down to and it's not nice to say it, sometimes we have to choose our own lives or another's.
The point is though that abortion should be in my opinion an available choice.
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