Can I just say

[che]

That religion should have no place in government. The US currency should NOT read "in God we trust". No law should be in place based on a religious belief. Federal officials should not take oaths on a Bible.

And people should be able to practice any religion they want without government intervention (unless your religion harms someone else cuzidunnowtfpeoplethinkupforreligion).

Word.

[Michael Swayne]

For once, I have to agree with you. In fact, it was the way I was raised. Before I started Kindergarten in Arizona, the school suggested to the parents to teach their children the Pledge of Allegiance. I was never taught the "Under God," part, because my parents did not believe that a country should not be founded on a religion.

When the teachers would make me say the Pledge their way, my parents went irate. They ended up winning the case against the school, citing that a person has the right to choose what he/she says to best represent the country and the flag.

Then, in high school, as National Honor Society president, it was my job to start the Pledge for the rest of the school during assemblies. I never said "Under God". I was told to say it to keep my office, but I did what my parents did. I went to the school board and told them that I do not believe that I should have to say it, because of my beliefs and whatnot. I kept my presidency, but my vice-president did the Pledge after that.

So, no, "In God We Trust" should not be on money. But, in order to change it, we have to get the government to agree with it. And our government probably couldn't vote itself out of a wet paper bag.

[Aerif]

Western ideas of morality and as a result most western laws are based on the teachings of Christianity and Judaisim. The same way the law in the middle east is based heavily on Islamic teachings.

Like it or not religion naturally influences most countries regardless of whether or not it is seen to participate in government.

76% of the American population identify as Christian. It seems obvious that Christianity should have a large influence over the government since the government represents the people and the majority seem to be Christian. But at the same time religion doesn't have quite the control you'd expect, many Christians equate abortion to murder, but the American government doesn't - surprising since murder is quite a serious crime. So there's clearly a point where the influence stops.

I am against the Pledge of Allegiance, and even more against the fact the 'under God' phrase since as far as I'm aware all school pupils have to recite the pledge. The recitation of the Pledge itself should not exist, and the offending line seems to go against the 'seperation of church and state' thing.

The US currency thing is different though. 'In God We Trust' is the motto of the USA, so it's not really supposed to be pushing religion onto the currency. A lot of countries have a religion-related motto*, but for the most part mottos are just old traditions. The motto of Scotland has been in use since the 1400s.

Taking the oath on the bible doesn't seem right though. It's not dragging religion into politics - it's dragging politics into religion.

And people should be able to practice any religion they want without government intervention (unless your religion harms someone else cuzidunnowtfpeoplethinkupforreligion).

Can't they?

*In My Defens God Me Defend -- Dieu et mon droit -- Allaho Akbar -- С нами Бог

[che]

Can't they?

They can, but the point I was meaning to make by saying that is the government is only heavily influenced by Christianity, when there are many more religions practiced in the US.

[Rocky]

Who said that the "In God We Trust" was referring to the Judeo-Christian one? There are many different definitions of that word. People should leave those words up to their own interpretation; nevertheless, in order for a government to work, people have to trust in the "higher powers" so to speak. lol I so clever

I'm all for upholding laws, but at the same time, have some respect for the traditions. I'm all for same-sex marriage, but not in a Roman Catholic church that doesn't believe in it, that just seems ironic and kind of lame, if not a bit disrespectful to the members of that church.

[Unknown Entity]

Had an American customer at work who was being really loud about a console he'd bought from us being broken. After getting his new console, he shouted out "GOD BLESS YOU ALL, AND GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!"
Needless to say, it's become a workplace meme now.

*shudders at the patriotism*

Anywho, the second he said it, I couldn't help but ask myself what the **** God has got to do with America. If it was a French guy, they wouldn't have said "... AND GOD BLESS FRANCE!" There is a patriotism thing with it which I just don't understand as it's a religion that was adopted by America anyway. I've never really understood the somewhat "ownership" of the term in America. Heck, I just don't understand our hearty, patriotic neighbours across the Atlantic all that much if I'm completely honest.

Religion into politics, politics into religion... it goes hand in hand, and I won't argue which is more in the wrong (you can't). Neither or should be together from a moral and equal opportunities standpoint. They're both (in my opinion) methods of control, and together they make no sense.

As a politician, you'd think the needs of your country would come first because everyone is free to believe what they want to believe, and you shouldn't have any influence on someone's beliefs. But it influences everyone more than you'd think - like being on a dollar bill.

From what I understand (or understood) of God, was that s/he wasn't the type to encourage patriotism, and I think using his name in a patriotic reference to a country is wrong, especially if 76% of Americans are Christians. You'd think you'd know better, right?

Ahh, this is all I can write at the moment. It's late, I'm tired, and I have things to do before bed. I'll reply again or add more when someone no doubt rips my post apart.

[Judge Magistrate]

We wouldn't have a world, a country, or anything without God. That's why it says "In God we trust" and we swear an oath on the Bible. This is my opinion as a Catholic so please don't hate me for it.

[loaf]

I never really said anything during the pledge.

It's something we are pretty much told to do in school. How many times have you done it since you graduated from high school.

[Michael Swayne]

I have said it maybe four times a year, each year, for six years. I work in a very patriotic town, so usually during 4th of July, Veteran's day, Memorial Day, and our festival in September. I technically don't have to, but as a well-known member of the community in a small town, it is looked down upon. I used to not care about what people think; but since I talk to over 600 people each week, I can't help but feel odd ny not doing it.

[RagnaToad]

I understand where you're coming from and ideally, I would suggest leaving the religious references out of all those things related to the government and the nation. But it's part of what made the country what it is, part of its history.

I'm sure a lot of national anthems in the world contain a religious message. It's part of what they were back in the day.

But I agree.

[Clint]

The only reason why there is any issue between church and state is because people make a big deal about it. The fact of the matter is that the majority of politicians are religious, and therefore those religious beliefs will be reflected in the things they do in office. The same goes for historical politician figures, hence why references, such as "In God We Trust," still exist. They mean something, not just from a religious standpoint, but from an historical one.

Plus the very laws that govern the United States are based on the teachings of Judaism and such. I don't think it's a big deal.

[RagnaToad]

The only reason why there is any issue between church and state is because people make a big deal about it. The fact of the matter is that the majority of politicians are religious, and therefore those religious beliefs will be reflected in the things they do in office. The same goes for historical politician figures, hence why references, such as "In God We Trust," still exist. They mean something, not just from a religious standpoint, but from an historical one.

Plus the very laws that govern the United States are based on the teachings of Judaism and such. I don't think it's a big deal.

Are you questioning the value of the separation between church and state? As an American? I thought that all of you hated countries without just that?

That and communists.

Also, the separation does not imply that politics can't or won't have religious motives. It simply separates two kinds of power and the people involved. In Western Europe a classic type of political party next to liberals and socialists is Christian-democrats, obviously historically fueled by Christian values, albeit not much more than a name today. (But that is true for most parties these days I suppose.)


There's a difference between bringing certain motives and values to the political world, and letting the Pope rule every country that has a catholic majority.

[OnOneRyder]

Western ideas of morality and as a result most western laws are based on the teachings of Christianity and Judaisim. The same way the law in the middle east is based heavily on Islamic teachings.

[/SIZE]

I agree to some extent....but really, Judaism? The tanakh is FULL of stuff which contradicts modern morality.

[Pete]

What about "God Save the Queen?"

Saaaaaame thing.

And on our currency, it should be "In Pete we trust"

[che]

And on our currency, it should be "In Pete's penis we trust"

Fixed!

[Clint]

Are you questioning the value of the separation between church and state?

Yes.

[RagnaToad]

[Musashiden]

In God We Trust wasn't the motto until 1956. This country was not founded on Christian principles, they merely snuck their way in there almost 200 years later. Most of the founding fathers were Deists, meaning they believed there was a creator, but that he/she had long since gone away leaving the world to its own devices. The Treaty of Tripoli clearly states that this country is not a Christian nation. Given the melting pot of religions in this country is boiling over, it might behoove those in power to shut their f*cking yaps about their policies being guided by the Judeo-Christian god for five seconds.

Also, since it's become kind of accepted that America is Jesus' (excuse me, Jeeeeezusah's) favorite place evar, Dominionism is on the rise. All the GOP front runners are card carrying Dominionists who want the US to be 100% Christian in preparation for Jeeeeezusah's apparently imminent return. Look at things like The Call and The Response, desperately trying to convert everyone. Look at all the anti-liberal vote-blocking going on in several states to keep the psycho-Christian GOP agenda afloat. Religion is pulling this country backwards. Practice it all you want, I don't care, but keep it out of the f*cking government. Everyone deserves to be able to express their beliefs or lack thereof, and the seeming push towards theocracy is decidedly unamerican.

And just to be clear, to limit butthurt, I do not mean psycho-Christian as in every Christian is psychotic, it's in reference to the GOP's particular brand of psuedo-Christianity.