The Australian Plebiscite for Marriage Equality

[Rowan]

lmao @ "libtards." Come on, man, that insult is ridiculous.

Rowan, you mentioned the American Psychiatric Association as a trusted source. So, I'll link the full article here, and quote the part about treatment. The recommended treatment for gender dysphoria, according to the APA:

So, while being a different gender than the one you were biologically assigned is classified as a disorder (because it can cause quite a bit of distress, which is one of the criteria for the disorder), the recommended treatment often involves counseling and figuring out ways to reconcile that difference - often through reassignment surgery so that the outside matches the inside.

So what I'm still continuing to understand from this, is that it is a treatment. Treatments are given to disorders. This supports my point, although I'm not sure that was your intention when mentioning this.

What I'm seeing is a lack of compassion for people who are distressed and marginalized. I am not sure how this hatred serves you, but perhaps you can explain it to me.

The 'hatred' stems from various things. The main one is ignoring facts to placate someones feelings. Normalizing mental disorders because you don't want to hurt peoples feelings is backwards. Its just like the new law that's come in (at least in Australia) where doctors are no longer allowed to tell their patients they are obese when they are, as to not hurt their feelings. Its normalizing these disorders that creates ridiculous things such as not being able to tell someone they need to lose weight. Dont confuse this with lack of empathy. Its hard to empathise with people who demand I call them something they are biologically not (that includes being born a man and wanting to identify as a woman).

I'd imagine she wants to present as a woman because she is one, just like you prefer presenting as a man because you are one. If you can let go of the idea that genitals = gender, it will make it easier

I don't identify as a man, I am a man. As soon as you let go of the idea you can choose what to identify as, it will make it easier.
"but isn't gender a social construct?"
It is to the extent that boys play with cars and girls play with dolls. Gender nonconformity is not a mental illness, gender dysphoria is. I disagree with the approach to treatment. I think its a psychological illness that requires psychiatric therapy, not an attempt at sating their preference with transitional hormone therapy.

You remember that soldier who got his bottom half blown off? He's still a man because that's how he identifies. It's important to use the right pronouns because it's respectful.

Hes a man because he was born a biological male. You need to stop with this idea that you can change what you are by losing or gaining genitals. And I'm also a little confused why you would use this example since your focus is mainly towards gender as opposed to sex.

A big reason the suicide rate you're concerned about is so high in the trans community is because of a lack of respect and validation.
From the NIH website:

I wasn't considering responding until I read this. This is the main reason for my response.

This is utterly misleading. What you and this source are purporting is that the reason for the increased rate of suicide in trans people is "Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons."

All of these reasons can be applied to non-trans people, including gender based discrimination. So the study is false in the sense that it fails to explain why trans people are at a higher rate of suicide than those who are victims of each of those types of bullying. I can only conclude to my original statement that it is in fact a mental illness that causes instability that results in depression and high rate of suicide in comparison to non-trans victims of all of those types of bullying (upto 50% higher rates of suicide). Furthermore, there are support groups for trans people. Where are the support groups for the people with buck teeth, obesity, who are just plain ugly?


I really don't appreciate being labelled as a hate filled , non-empathetic vitreous person. I care a lot, maybe too much. However its easy to see that my care is sometimes not where most persons would usually reside. My whole life I just want to stop people from having to experience terrible things. I cant imagine what its like to feel like a woman trapped in a mans body, or vice versa. However, I wont concede to this as normal behavior so future generations are going to think that its okay to be this way, because its not. You might think to yourself "well if everyone thought it was okay, then there'd be no problem", It will never, ever be this way and you're naive to think so. Not only that, I believe the reason for depression and suicide is unrelated to bullying, as per my example. It might be a factor, but there no study that explains why trans have higher rates of suicide compared to non-trans bullied people.

[Master Garland]

Most trans related suicides are caused by loosing loved ones and friends and social circles because of merely transitioning to the gender one knows they should have been. I know transpeople that have lost jobs, spouses, friends and ever family for just transitioning to be happy yeah loosing all that makes anyone sad. Another big factor is most transpeople are 'late' transitioners so they end up not 'passing' very well or at all in rare cases leading to dysphoria being still present leading to suicide. Granted even non passing transpeople that actually have a strong support group and are lucky enough to not be discriminated against rarely end their lives in suicide. It's all about support and acceptance and not purposefully misgendering us and insulting us to be vindictive.

I know that I am personally happier now that I look female and now that my body runs on female hormones than I ever was as a masculine ,man. Estrogen itself seemed to makes my mind at ease after a while. This is a fact that transitioning has healed me mentally and physically and your outside non psychic opinion cannot change that Rowan. Sorry but I 'know' myself way better than you do as all us transpeople do and I don't need ant form of study to tell me otherwise.