Aurora, Colorado: 12 Dead in Shooting Rampage at Midnight Showing of The Dark Knight Rises Read mor

[Joxsjua]

Yoko, please excuse my ignorance. I should have specified Canada has pretty equal theft and lesser-crime rates as the US, but our murder and assault rates are much higher.

Here's some damn research, scroll down to the second graph.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...11218b-eng.htm


Here's some more updated research.
USA has 2.8 times higher murder rate.
Hit cntl F and search "crime" here
http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/simdiff.htm/


Here's the most recent
(middle of the page)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

[Merlin]

I vote that we strip all amenities out of jails. No more TV, magazines, free college education, decent food, conjugal visits... You get a 3'X5' cell with a hole in the floor for you to shit in. Keep the temperature at 90 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer and 60 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter. Infest it with rats, roaches, whatever. Oh I'm sorry, is your jail time uncomfortable? THAT'S THE POINT. Oh that's so cruel! We can't do that to people! I know he killed 12 people and injured 50+ others but god forbid we deny him television! /soapbox

[Order]

You know, speaking of drug trafficing....
If america banned firearms the cartels would recrate Miami cerca 1980.
Anyone remember the amount of shootings there?
They were daily, all drug related and happened at a lot of crowded shopping centers.
Full auto submachineguns, shotguns, you name it. And back then, the cartels were making so much money they literally never used a gun more than once. Fire, drop, run.
Most of those guns were not sold in the US.
They had to start issuing police bigger guns because of it, just like during the '20s gangster deal.

And believe me, those bigtime crime organizations are no joke. They stitch children full of drugs and dont think twice about shooting bystanders.


This guy may have just been a psycho, he may have gotten his hands on a rifle legally, but a person doesnt just slip by being that insane. Someone gave him one too many chances.
Like the kids who shot up colombine and their parents thought the crap they were writing about and talking about was just a phase...

I'm sure we'll find out eventually that someone failed to act, to take him seriously.
Im also willing to bet he was into meth or some crazy BS because he apparently 'couldnt find work'.

Hopefully, his time in fantasy land is ending. Hopefully, he will wish he had the guts to kill himself. Hopefully, the justice system of colorado will hand down the fury and pain of all the people who wish it upon him.
Most of all, I hope that the police in colorado can improve after this and find ways to respond faster to shootings.

Also,
How did he mosey up with a rifle? I dont know the whole story...
Did he park out front and already have the weapon loaded and ready?

[Martin]

I'm not going to say that all of your points aren't valid because they are. But this thread has turned into a gun control debate rather than focusing on the fact at least twelve people died in a massacre on the scale of Columbine. Surely that should be taking precedence?

[che]

I'm not going to say that all of your points aren't valid because they are. But this thread has turned into a gun control debate rather than focusing on the fact at least twelve people died in a massacre on the scale of Columbine. Surely that should be taking precedence?

Thanks, Martin.

While gun control is a serious issue, I don't think it's really getting anywhere in this thread, despite the numerous comments about it.

If we're gonna focus on trying to figure out what we can DO about this type of stuff being prevented in the future, we should move on.

(ps, not saying that the gun control issue was resolved, just saying it won't happen overnight. I encourage everyone reading this to think it over and have an opinion on it.)

[Crescent]

It's just tragic..When I go out to crowded places I look at people and wonder if deep down they're hurting so much that they might want to pull out a gun and start shooting people out of nowhere so although I want to remain aloof, I try to smile at everyone. I thought up my own method of self-defence by wearing black fingerless leather gloves with big chunky rings underneath. People assume its a fashion statement but I just let them think that. Its nothing compared to having a gun but I feel safe when Ive got them on plus I learnt karate as a little girl. Im going to see the Dark Knight Rises tomorrow though nothing will stop me. Im not put off just another scum. They're everywhere, some being born/bred as we speak. I don't condone capital punishment and I hate guns. Violence begets violence.

[nix]

Pete, from what i know, all guns are registered, theres a paper trail for all firearms? In most sates i predict anyway.

Make a public announcement that everybody will have to hand over their firearms at specific locations in their state. Slap a major fine on refusing to do it, then cross reference the paper work with what was handed over. Then go knocking on doors of people who failed to handed them in, fine them! now yer making money!

It would be a very slow pain in the bollox process that will possibly take many years, but its a start. And allow people to carry arms for those rare situations you were referring too. Or just allow people to carry revolvers..

Or

Do nothing and likely see this trend of mass murder continue


Heck I'm even finding it hard to think what a US citizen would need an assault rifle over a side arm for in regards to protection

[Martin]

^ That's carrying on the same thing as before. Gun control belongs in another thread - we're doing those that died a major disservice by continuing to debate this here. Those poor souls didn't give two hoots about gun registration, they just went to see a movie and that choice has resulted in a horrific tragedy. We should be honouring them, not shaking our head at the reasons why it could/might have happened.

[RagnaToad]

While I am mostly for the strict limitation of firearm posession, and I believe firearms owned by civilians don't make society a safer place, I also believe that no matter how safe or civilised a society is, there will be violent incidents and acts of terrorism like these. You cannot control the mental state of every individual, and someone is bound to become aggressive and use the resources he has to harm other people.

Every time there is no clear 'purpose' of what the killer in these incidents might want to accomplish, I always wonder how big the role of the media is. I think milking a story like this one and making the killers of similar incidents into infamous folk figures is just giving possible killers an incentive to do it: fame. I feel like every time the media forget to take responsibility and claim 'they are just observing and reporting', but **** that. I'm a journalism student, but you don't have to be to realise how huge the impact of media, and especially visual media like television, can be.

Newswipe - High School Shooting - YouTube

[Martin]

That's an interesting point. Mark David Chapman, the assassin of John Lennon claimed years later that he sought Lennon's fame. I think you could be onto something there.

There can never be understanding of an event like this. I think attempting to comprehend such an action is a waste of positive energy, so we have to just accept that it did, and hopefully the madman will face swift justice.

[Hobaginator]

^ That's carrying on the same thing as before. Gun control belongs in another thread - we're doing those that died a major disservice by continuing to debate this here. Those poor souls didn't give two hoots about gun registration, they just went to see a movie and that choice has resulted in a horrific tragedy. We should be honouring them, not shaking our head at the reasons why it could/might have happened.

Absolutely dead wrong. When a human being dies in a tragedy, it is the responsibility of the living to determine every single factor that may have played into said tragedy in order to better prevent it in the future. It is a disservice NOT to dissect the entire situation in hopes to better understand and prevent situations like this from occuring again. This is *exactly* about gun control. A massacre would have NEVER happened if just *one* well trained citizen with a concealed carry permit and some guts had been allowed to bring his sidearm into that theater. I'm willing to bet that there was men in there wishing their firearm wasn't in their car as soon as the killer opened fire. If an establisment is not going to allow us United States citizens to carry our firearms, they better be damn sure they provide armed guards at every checkpoint and means of access in or out. The problem here is that their "No concealed weapons allowed" sign, paired with lack of armed police and/or security marked every single one of those moviegoers as easy prey.

This debate was sparked out of outrage and mourning. Don't insult us by insinuating that we are doing the dead a disservice. This is a very important topic. Don't think you know everything about everything, because honestly, you've got a lot to think about before you start spouting off wild opinions in hopes of sounding like some sort of false figure of authority. I'm tired of you "this belongs in another thread" whiners. If a topic is over your head, then say your peace and let those not lacking a forebrain continue to discuss important issues. If you can't do that, then shut up and go look at cat pictures.

Pete, from what i know, all guns are registered, theres a paper trail for all firearms? In most sates i predict anyway.

Make a public announcement that everybody will have to hand over their firearms at specific locations in their state. Slap a major fine on refusing to do it, then cross reference the paper work with what was handed over. Then go knocking on doors of people who failed to handed them in, fine them! now yer making money!

This would be a VERY bad idea. The majority of gun owners would NOT comply to having a very important constitutional right STRIPPED. It's in the constitution for a reason. Take away our guns, and we don't live in the United States of America anymore. If authorities went door to door demanding our firearms, that woud result in blood in the streets. I'm not the only one with this mentality, believe me. This would likely cause a second civil war, and the U.S. military will never open fire on U.S. citizens trying to defend their rights. PFC Johnny ain't gonna shoot mom and dad. Sorry, but no lawman is gonna walk up to my front door in the beautiful countryside of Kings Mountain, NC and take my rifle from my hands without at least one of us dying, and I'd have my dad, brother, next door neighbor, and likely over half the population of the state on my side. Open war. Is that what you want? That's what would happen if big Fed tried to take our 2nd amendment right from us and rob us blind while they do it. Socialists never cease to amaze me at their ignorance.

[che]

Absolutely dead wrong. When a human being dies in a tragedy, it is the responsibility of the living to determine every single factor that may have played into said tragedy in order to better prevent it in the future. It is a disservice NOT to dissect the entire situation in hopes to better understand and prevent situations like this from occuring again. This is *exactly* about gun control. A massacre would have NEVER happened if just *one* well trained citizen with a concealed carry permit and some guts had been allowed to bring his sidearm into that theater. I'm willing to bet that there was men in there wishing their firearm wasn't in their car as soon as the killer opened fire. If an establisment is not going to allow us United States citizens to carry our firearms, they better be damn sure they provide armed guards at every checkpoint and means of access in or out. The problem here is that their "No concealed weapons allowed" sign, paired with lack of armed police and/or security marked every single one of those moviegoers as easy prey.

This debate was sparked out of outrage and mourning. Don't insult us by insinuating that we are doing the dead a disservice. This is a very important topic. Don't think you know everything about everything, because honestly, you've got a lot to think about before you start spouting off wild opinions in hopes of sounding like some sort of false figure of authority. I'm tired of you "this belongs in another thread" whiners. If a topic is over your head, then say your peace and let those not lacking a forebrain continue to discuss important issues. If you can't do that, then shut up and go look at cat pictures.



This would be a VERY bad idea. The majority of gun owners would NOT comply to having a very important constitutional right STRIPPED. It's in the constitution for a reason. Take away our guns, and we don't live in the United States of America anymore. If authorities went door to door demanding our firearms, that woud result in blood in the streets. I'm not the only one with this mentality, believe me. This would likely cause a second civil war, and the U.S. military will never open fire on U.S. citizens trying to defend their rights. PFC Johnny ain't gonna shoot mom and dad. Sorry, but no lawman is gonna walk up to my front door in the beautiful countryside of Kings Mountain, NC and take my rifle from my hands without at least one of us dying, and I'd have my dad, brother, next door neighbor, and likely over half the population of the state on my side. Open war. Is that what you want? That's what would happen if big Fed tried to take our 2nd amendment right from us and rob us blind while they do it. Socialists never cease to amaze me at their ignorance.

Actually agree with Hobag on this. We should absolutely try to determine any things we can change on our end. We may never be able to control people who intend to harm others, but there are certainly things we can change on our end as honest citizens interested in making our society safer and better.

Also, while I would love to agree that the government buying guns back or having everyone turn theirs in and then searching for the missing ones with warrants, etc, I can't. In the end you are making honest citizens turn in their firearms, forfeiting their ability to protect themselves or their family from people who won't give theirs up, acquired them illegally, are protected by corrupt corporations, or gangs, etc. It would be much worse idea in the end than it seems to be now.

But seriously, drop the "socialist" and "damn conversative" and "****in liberal" shit. I'm agreeing with you on an issue here, and I'm pretty far left and into socialism. Stop labeling shit, it looks ignorant.

[Merlin]

All these countries with bans on guns will be regretting it when the zombies attack. Me, I'm eliminating as many of those flesh-eating bastards as I can on my way out. You go ahead and stabby-stab them and see how that works out for you.

[NikkiLinkle]

I haven't read about this, I've only heard about it. All I can think to say about is, that it's not about guns. It's about the fact that someone thought they could take lives of innocent people. And for what? Because something didn't go his way? Things don't go my way all the time, I have never thought I should go harm a bunch of people (who I don't even know) because of it. He could've gone there with a knife and stabbed those people to death. It's not about the weapon, he just happened to choose a gun. I don't know much about guns, so I won't comment on that. It bothers me that some people think the solution to something, is to harm another.

My thoughts are with the people who lost their lives and their families and friends, who will be affected by this the rest of their lives.

[Hobaginator]

Actually agree with Hobag on this. We should absolutely try to determine any things we can change on our end. We may never be able to control people who intend to harm others, but there are certainly things we can change on our end as honest citizens interested in making our society safer and better.

Also, while I would love to agree that the government buying guns back or having everyone turn theirs in and then searching for the missing ones with warrants, etc, I can't. In the end you are making honest citizens turn in their firearms, forfeiting their ability to protect themselves or their family from people who won't give theirs up, acquired them illegally, are protected by corrupt corporations, or gangs, etc. It would be much worse idea in the end than it seems to be now.

But seriously, drop the "socialist" and "damn conversative" and "****in liberal" shit. I'm agreeing with you on an issue here, and I'm pretty far left and into socialism. Stop labeling shit, it looks ignorant.

If you agree that taking guns away from citizens is a bad idea, then you may not be as left as you think. Socialism implies forcing rules and regs on citizens who "wouldn't know any better", socialists believe that people are too stupid to control themselves and need to be controlled by forceful means. Socialists want to believe in the good of man, but don't trust it. They believe that the average citizen is akin to sheep and is not smart enough to govorn his or her own life, and not responsible enough to handle things like guns. I am of the opinion that for every one psycho out there who will fire blindly into crowds, there are 50 people who would pop him in the dome piece before he got a shot off. That is why I believe we are not "children who need their pop guns taken away by the smarter, richer and more powerful govornment who knows better". In this instance, the socialist point of view is one of ignorance and fear, and lack of belief in the moral standing of fellow man. While there are dirtbags out there who will shoot babies point blank, there are normal good old boys who won't let something like that happen if their right to bare arms isn't impeded (as it is today) or all out banned. I do believe that socialism is a idealogy of ignorance, and I will continue to say so until a situation where socialism becomes a good idea. Remember nazi germany? That was socialism in action. Learn history before you claim to belong to a party with history like the holocaust as it's background. The socialist values and laws that the nazi party inflicted upon the german way of life is what allowed such travesties to take place. Claiming socialism without understanding that socialism strips away the rights of it's citizens and leaves them at the mercy of the authority is what is ignorant. I personally don't mind being insulted for my beliefs because I understand that those insulting me do not understand what the USA stands for, and I have the fortitude not to let the ignorant effect my self-esteem.

All these countries with bans on guns will be regretting it when the zombies attack. Me, I'm eliminating as many of those flesh-eating bastards as I can on my way out. You go ahead and stabby-stab them and see how that works out for you.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned topics being over people's heads. How are those cat pictures, Merlin? Why don't you go back to them. In this thread, we're discussing a serious topic that stemmed from the brutal murder of at least 12 people and the injury of 59. Or would you rather we continue to joke about zombies? On second thought, if there was some sort of implied notion in your post that eventually the time will come when we will need our firearms and they won't be there; then I wholeheartedly agree with you and I take back that insult. Although it is in bad taste to joke about this situation. We don't need to wait for it to be proven to us that a time will come when restriction of our firearms will result in tragedy, if we pay attention, we'll notice that it has already happened in a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado.

[Merlin]

The zombie joke was in reference to the circular discussion on gun control. I was hoping to drop the hint lightly but perhaps I should spell it out: I think an issue as complex as gun control in the United States would be better served being discussed in Intellectual Discussion.

[Pete]

The fact of the matter here really has nothing to do with guns. It has to do with a sick **** taking 12 lives at something that should be seen as a happy occasion, where people, no matter what country they live in, should have the right to feel safe and secure in their daily lives. People shouldn't have to look over their shoulder and worry about if the weird looking guy is just kinda weird, or if he's going to shoot up a theater. It's ****ing domestic terrorism, and I think he should be hanged for it.

As for gun control, it really doesn't matter that the guy used GUNS to commit this atrocity. Yes, guns were the weapon of choice, but he could have just as easily rammed his vehicle into the lines of people waiting for the movie to start. Hell, he could have used knives or swords, or a ****ing watermelon. The tool doesn't matter and shouldn't be factored into this. The real, and more important question is WHY. WHAT would possess someone to just open fire on a group of civilians trying to watch a movie?

[Alpha]

Genuine question, simply stated: could he afford mental healthcare?

[Martin]

Absolutely dead wrong. When a human being dies in a tragedy, it is the responsibility of the living to determine every single factor that may have played into said tragedy in order to better prevent it in the future.

Never said it wasn't, this is the wrong place to do it. If you can't grasp that from what I said there's little hope for you really. So no, not absolutely dead wrong. Not even partially wrong. Your attitude towards your fellow man is poor - you should really focus on changing that.

It is a disservice NOT to dissect the entire situation in hopes to better understand and prevent situations like this from occuring again.

Agreed. Probably the only think I agree with. Not the place.

This is *exactly* about gun control.

Nope. It isn't. This is a thread to report the event, not the aftermath.

If an establisment is not going to allow us United States citizens to carry our firearms, they better be damn sure they provide armed guards at every checkpoint and means of access in or out. The problem here is that their "No concealed weapons allowed" sign, paired with lack of armed police and/or security marked every single one of those moviegoers as easy prey.

Hello, Big Brother. But hell I don't even care about that. You do what you want

This debate was sparked out of outrage and mourning. Don't insult us by insinuating that we are doing the dead a disservice. This is a very important topic. Don't think you know everything about everything, because honestly, you've got a lot to think about before you start spouting off wild opinions in hopes of sounding like some sort of false figure of authority. I'm tired of you "this belongs in another thread" whiners. If a topic is over your head, then say your peace and let those not lacking a forebrain continue to discuss important issues. If you can't do that, then shut up and go look at cat pictures.

Trololololol. Actually laughed. Never insulted anyone, just stated that this thread should be about something other than what was being talked about. Take gun control into ID where it belongs. If it's a 'very important topic' as you proclaim you can go nuts in there. Laughed at me knowing everything - again, never claimed to. False figure of authority, wild opinions.. Do please carry on. And considering I'm the only one that tries to move things around that's clearly aimed at me and no-one else. Don't like it? You know where the door is. Also, it's say your piece, not peace but you know, I'm not as educated so.

Although all in all I'm impressed, that was actually a sincere and coherent dig at me.

Sorry about the off topic of it, I just have to actually defend myself when I try to uphold the rules of the forum and get shouted down for it.

[Order]

I see a lot of people asking why it happened. Clearly, it happened because he is insane.
Martin, defend yourself about shit that matters, not the fact that you believe conversations on the internet should be officially sanctioned and broken into strict catagories.
Who gives a crap where the conversation goes. Few of us are experts on anything, so any moral, social or political discussion is inherently hypothetical or commentary.
If youre just trying to turn the discussion in a specific direction you want it to follow, try contributing.
The conversation naturally turned to gun control because thats what happens when there is a shooting in the US. Remeber columbine?

Also,
Has anything new been reported? Do the citizens of colorado get to watch him get eaten by bears yet?

Edit:

Genuine question, simply stated:could he afford mental healthcare?

Clever.
Would it have stopped him?

[Joxsjua]

I see a lot of people asking why it happened. Clearly, it happened because he is insane.
Martin, defend yourself about shit that matters, not the fact that you believe conversations on the internet should be officially sanctioned and broken into strict catagories.
Who gives a crap where the conversation goes. Few of us are experts on anything, so any moral, social or political discussion is inherently hypothetical or commentary.
If youre just trying to turn the discussion in a specific direction you want it to follow, try contributing.
The conversation naturally turned to gun control because thats what happens when there is a shooting in the US. Remeber columbine?

Also,
Has anything new been reported? Do the citizens of colorado get to watch him get eaten by bears yet?

Edit:
Alpha
Genuine question, simply stated:could he afford mental healthcare?

Clever.
Would it have stopped him?

Unfortunately, you and your brother Hobag have been turning it into an emotionally bias filled back-to-back response in a lot more than just this. I believe Hobaginator has very valid potential but it keeps getting dragged into name calling, anger-filled responses that any science-major would be laughed out at if he/she tried to use it as a means of justification.

Che was on point as he suggested ""But seriously, drop the "socialist" and "damn conversative" and "****in liberal" shit. I'm agreeing with you on an issue here, and I'm pretty far left and into socialism. Stop labeling shit, it looks ignorant.""
labels turn the conversation into boredom real quick and know one wants to read that *****-footing; this is why Fox News and Rush Limbaugh exist. just confirm it with sassyquatch....


I agree with Ragnatoad that this story relies on the media to relay the message. ""Every time there is no clear 'purpose' of what the killer in these incidents might want to accomplish, I always wonder how big the role of the media is. I think milking a story like this one and making the killers of similar incidents into infamous folk figures is just giving possible killers an incentive to do it: fame. I feel like every time the media forget to take responsibility and claim 'they are just observing and reporting', but **** that. I'm a journalism student, but you don't have to be to realise how huge the impact of media, and especially visual media like television, can be.""

Yes, we completely glorify these homicidal figures on the news and yet there's no warning label at the end of the broadcast reminding the youth 'Getting hung would be in your best interest but for the greater good of the many, you'd be better off being euthanized and letting us harvest your still beating heart in your last few breathes.'
I can watch late night TV before I go to bed and 6 nights out of the week there are always homicide shows that either leave you with the message that either throw that "one-liner poseur affirmation quote" or the one guy that made them all think a lil bit that had his name recognized before he was sentenced. Does this make more people that think they have lost it all more likely to want to commit irrational behavior or would it be more powerful to be irrational and make a scene?

I think it'd be wise to make an example and strip a few rights from these individuals.

Alpha: as far as I know the guy was discouraged because he couldn't find the money to pay his student loans. I don't think metal support works that fast unless you're prone to social conformity.

[Sheechiibii]

I haven't read about this, I've only heard about it. All I can think to say about is, that it's not about guns. It's about the fact that someone thought they could take lives of innocent people. And for what? Because something didn't go his way? Things don't go my way all the time, I have never thought I should go harm a bunch of people (who I don't even know) because of it. He could've gone there with a knife and stabbed those people to death. It's not about the weapon, he just happened to choose a gun. I don't know much about guns, so I won't comment on that. It bothers me that some people think the solution to something, is to harm another.

My thoughts are with the people who lost their lives and their families and friends, who will be affected by this the rest of their lives.

It's very much about the weapon as well though. There's no way 15 or so people would be dead and 50 injured with one man and a knife. Guns are extremely dangerous because they can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time to a large number of people. Knifes, swords, nothing else can do this apart from bombs. Look at countries that don't allow every person and their children to carry guns, you don't get massacres like this because there isn't the weapon to do it. When was the last time you heard of 15 people murdered and 50 injured in Britain? Of course you still get psychos, but they don't have the easy access to seriously dangerous weapons which makes all the difference.

I have no idea why any American citizen would need a gun anyway, guns harm far more than they protect, they are not there for protection. Think of it this way: someone mugs you and you don't have a gun, consequence is you get your wallet stolen and maybe a punch in the face; someone mugs you and you have a gun, consequence is someone gets shot, someone dies. Normal citizens owning guns is one of the most idiotic things in America. I know I'm going to get torn into for this but what I say is the truth.

[nix]

Fair enough you crazy Yanks I can understand its been part of your history for so many years. I get that i do, but its highly likely events like this are just going to carry on and possibly at a more frequent level. Ragnawesome also brought up a point i agree with, the media play a big part in these type of events and likely just rally other mad bastids to follow suit.

So the way i see it is, keep your gun and you may save your life one day, or give it up and save many lives everyday. On a grander scale of things anyway, and if not total disarmament then i think at the very least, pistols only. Would you guys settle for pistols only even?

[Pete]

Well Alpha, your question goes much deeper than if can he afford the mental healthcare. It would have to start back at some previous level, maybe school, where a teacher or administrator would have to notice and document things like strange behavior or stories, and would have to recommend they get evaluated.

The shooter was described as very intelligent, but a bit of a loner. I mean, sure many people who commit acts like this are described as that, but then again, half of TFF would have to be evaluated based on those two qualifications alone.

[RagnaToad]

Meanwhile in Syria

[Hobaginator]

It's very much about the weapon as well though. There's no way 15 or so people would be dead and 50 injured with one man and a knife. Guns are extremely dangerous because they can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time to a large number of people.

I agree with this statement. Guns are dangerous, just like cars are dangerous. It requires a high level of skill, good moral ground, and decent mental capacity to use both safely and effectively in the right situations.

I have no idea why any American citizen would need a gun anyway, guns harm far more than they protect, they are not there for protection. Think of it this way: someone mugs you and you don't have a gun, consequence is you get your wallet stolen and maybe a punch in the face; someone mugs you and you have a gun, consequence is someone gets shot, someone dies. Normal citizens owning guns is one of the most idiotic things in America. I know I'm going to get torn into for this but what I say is the truth.

It has been in our constitution from the very start that we have the right to bare arms. This is to protect us from more than just crime. It's to protect us from the govornment. If citizens aren't allowed to have guns, neither should the govornment, or the military, or any other country for that matter. How would we solve that? I'm pretty sure it would come down to war. People are going to kill people no matter what you do to try and change that. I'd rather read about a mugger who was shot and killed, than a woman who was beaten and raped to death by an escaped convict. Truth is, just the fact that people are aware others might have guns deters a lot of crime in the states.

Genuine question, simply stated: could he afford mental healthcare?

I see what you did there. If what everyone's saying about gun control being off topic, then healthcare ought to be also, right? How about we start a new thread for that too?

I believe Hobaginator has very valid potential but it keeps getting dragged into name calling, anger-filled responses that any science-major would be laughed out at if he/she tried to use it as a means of justification.

I'm no science major, and yeah, I operate off of fury very efficiently (est. 98 mi/gal). I'll take your statement as a compliment.

About glorifying homicidal figures and the media's role in this... You can't blame media, you have to blame the man who pulled the trigger... I don't think media made him do it, but it may have helped him pull the trigger to pretend it all was just a movie. He obviously had no brass about him whatsoever, so it's anybody's speculation.

Fair enough you crazy Yanks I can understand its been part of your history for so many years.

Nix, it's more than just history. (Btw the "Yanks" fought for the Federal Govornment in the civil war to unite all 50 states and keep it that way. The Rebels fought against it for succession of a new govorning party of the South completely separate from the North.) Anyways, it's more than just history. It's what our country was founded on. Every part of the Constitution has been why the U.S.A. is what it is. I'm a patriot, and it infuriates me to see what's happening nowadays in politics... Politician geezers are just ripping pieces right out of the Constitution and finding loopholes to get away with it, it's happening all the time. If we're not careful, future generations are going to be living in chains -- the Constitution protects freedom.

So the way i see it is, keep your gun and you may save your life one day, or give it up and save many lives everyday. On a grander scale of things anyway, and if not total disarmament then i think at the very least, pistols only. Would you guys settle for pistols only even?

Sure. Can I trade my .22 caliber rifle for a pistol that fires 22mm rounds that can blow up a tank? 'Cause the fed has tanks, and choppers, and jets and missiles. At the very least let me protect myself against tanks should the socialist party decide it's time to burn the flag and rip up the Constitution in my lifetime. My point is that placing too much trust in the govornment is historically proven to be a giant mistake. Fed respects us, we respect fed. Fed starts taking away our rights, we fight back. You better be damn sure those govornment boys still remember the bitter fought battles in the southern hills. I'm a patriot for the U.S.A. That means that I'm not putting my life in some diplomat's hands, and when the shit hits the fan, your gun is your life.

Those of you who are against civillians owning guns, I imagine very few of you have had some homeboy from the hood point an unregistered pistol with the serial number scratched off at your face. Or some criminal phony pretending to be a cop try to rob you at gunpoint. If it happened to you and by sheer luck you lived to talk about it, I guarentee you'd seriously consider getting a Concealed Carry permit. I speak from experience. Both of those happened to me. The first one dry fired at my face point blank. He forgot to chamber a round. That's the only reason I'm sitting here typing to you right now. If I had a gun in that instance, he would have been one dead spade. I'm sure he's gone off to rape some 14 year old girl and stab some old lady for her purse since our run-in. Had I been armed when we met, he'd be nobody's problem. Same with the faux-deputy robber.

I still stand by my reasoning that if the moviegoers had been allowed to carry their firearms on premesis, this tragedy could have been prevented, or at least lessened. I blame gun control for their deaths and injury. Psychos are everywhere, but we need a way to strike them down when they get out of control.

[RagnaToad]

Jason Alexander wrote something interesting about this today.

TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter

[Sheechiibii]

Those of you who are against civillians owning guns, I imagine very few of you have had some homeboy from the hood point an unregistered pistol with the serial number scratched off at your face. Or some criminal phony pretending to be a cop try to rob you at gunpoint. If it happened to you and by sheer luck you lived to talk about it, I guarentee you'd seriously consider getting a Concealed Carry permit. I speak from experience. Both of those happened to me. The first one dry fired at my face point blank. He forgot to chamber a round. That's the only reason I'm sitting here typing to you right now. If I had a gun in that instance, he would have been one dead spade. I'm sure he's gone off to rape some 14 year old girl and stab some old lady for her purse since our run-in. Had I been armed when we met, he'd be nobody's problem. Same with the faux-deputy robber.

I still stand by my reasoning that if the moviegoers had been allowed to carry their firearms on premesis, this tragedy could have been prevented, or at least lessened. I blame gun control for their deaths and injury. Psychos are everywhere, but we need a way to strike them down when they get out of control.

I understand where you're coming from given your past, but have you ever stopped to think that if you didn't live in a country packed full to the brim with guns that maybe neither of those instances would have happened? Guns are extremely easy to come by in America, legal or illegal. I've never seen a gun in Britain, and I've only once heard about gun crime in britain on the news. Sure, there are groups who own guns, I don't know about them but I'm pretty sure they exist in this country, but you don't really hear of gun crime in this country at all. Why is that? Because barely anybody has a gun, not even the cops carry guns unless they're going to a crime scene where the perpetrator is armed and dangerous. Fact is if guns werent so easy to come by in America it's extremely unlikely that either of those situations would have occured to you.

[Order]

Because barely anybody has a gun, not even the cops carry guns unless they're going to a crime scene where the perpetrator is armed and dangerous.

Thats because there was never a criminal-police arms race there.
This has happened in the US a few times which I have already cited.
Rolling over and handing your wallet to a theif may be acceptable in a lot of places, but in the US we believe a citizen has the right not to hand over his belongings and safety to a criminal. Your criminals dont arm themselves for two reasons:
The police dont carry, so there is no threat of harm in carrying out a crime. The bighest risk is being asked to surrender.
The citizens dont dare defend themselves for fear of legal consequences.
I dont know of any other country with communities which expressly encourage a "stand your ground" mentality.

As long as you are willing to roll over, a criminal will simply take what they like and walk away. The second you defend your right not to be robbed, you are in danger.

Thats the logic.

In the united states, we dont like giving up. We dont like rolling over and letting things happen to us. But even in places which arent as emphatic about self defense tjere is violent crime.
Everyone is familiar with the mexican cartel right?
Columbian geurillas?
Yakuza, palistinian pureists, japanese red army wannabes.

Speaking of which, a japanese terrorist group which claimed to be reminant of the japanese red army got their hands on rocket launchers and small arms and were captured outside yokosuka naval base, planning to fire the rocket at a navy ship.
Guns are illigal in japan.
They had a rocket and they were going to use it. Luckily some of the good ol boys saw a man carrying the rocket near an enterence to the base and subdued him, saving lives of not just US military, but JDSF members and japanese civilians.
Nothing bad had a chance to happen because the sailors who guarded the checkpoint were armed and did not allow the crazies to start firing. Nobody was hurt, not a single shot was fired.
There are police all over that city and at leadt one must have saw him walking around with an RPG, why didnt the japanese police stop him?
Because he was armed and they were not.

Now you know what to think.

[Hobaginator]

Fact is if guns werent so easy to come by in America it's extremely unlikely that either of those situations would have occured to you.

The phony cop was ex-military. Uncle Sam trained him in the use of firearms, provided him with permits and liscences. Hell, he even somehow obtained a very real looking sheriff's dept undercover badge. Truth is, if somebody has malicious intent, they're going to get their hands on whatever they need to hurt people. Why should I just trust that my govornment's police and military are nice people? Because some diplomat said they are? The U.S. Marine Corps denied me the opportunity to serve, and this guy went into the Army right after high school. Maybe the U.S. just has a higher percentage of whackos. I don't know. Why should ANYBODY be allowed to have a gun, by those standards? Why not crack down on weapons and firearm manufacturers? Make it illegal to produce anything with the purpose of killing. Especially hunting rifles. Why do we need to kill deer? We can just go to a store and buy meat if we want it. Why don't we still just fight wars with swords and bows? Better yet, outlaw those too. Fist fight to solve our problems... Or we can all just sit down and talk about our problems and figure something out peacefully. Heh... In an ideal world, maybe. This isn't the carebears. There's criminals and murderers out there and I for one will not give up my basic animal right to defend myself in any way that I can.

I get what you're saying. I really do. Do you realize that the mexican drug cartel simply hacks people's heads off with machetes or uses chainsaws? It's common to find decapitated heads on the sides of the road in many places where cartel activity is rampant. In third world countries there are roving machete gangs... People will simply light houses on fire to kill who they want. My point is that if it's not one method, its another.

Believe me, I'm the type of guy that can handle myself in a fist fight, but no matter how fast I can throw a combo or how many punches I can take it doesn't change the fact that a single bullet to the head can end my existence in a second. This is the world we live in. I don't see the problem with responsible citizens living in peace, being polite, good samaritans, and carrying their pistols just in case. That's what it's like in most of Kings Mountain, NC. It's actually pretty peaceful.

Jason Alexander wrote something interesting about this today.

TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter

Ok so this guy argues the right to bear arms definition as it appears in the Constitution:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Definition of MILITIA
1
a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency
b : a body of citizens organized for military service
2
: the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service

I am signed up for Selective Service and trained by the State to use a handgun safely and effectively through my Concealed Carry Permit class. If the govornment calls my phone and tells me to drive to the nearest National Guard base to report for duty, I'll be there, and I'll be able to score on an expert level in marksmanship upon arrival. Is that the only definition of Militia? No. Here's another hypothetical: If Barack Obama himself orders a convoy of tanks to drive through my neighborhood and unjustly sieze our property, and we decide that isn't OK, we can organize and can become a Militia. I think this guy is mistaking the definition of a Militia. The "minute men" who fought against Great Britain during the American revolution were a Militia, organized in a grassroots system against the oppressive govornment that they deemed unfit for rule. The army of the south in the Civil War was a militia organized for the same purpose. High school grade American History.

These people believe that the US government is eventually going to go street by street and enslave our citizens. Now as long as that is only happening to liberals, homosexuals and democrats - no problem. But if they try it with anyone else - it's going to be arms-ageddon and these committed, God-fearing, brave souls will then use their military-esque arsenal to show the forces of our corrupt government whats-what. These people think they meet the definition of a "militia". They don't. At least not the constitutional one. And, if it should actually come to such an unthinkable reality, these people believe they would win. That's why they have to "take our country back". From who? From anyone who doesn't think like them or see the world like them. They hold the only truth, everyone else is dangerous. Ever meet a terrorist that doesn't believe that? Just asking.

That entire statement paints every gun supporter as an idiot terrorist who's afraid of everyone else. Quite the contrary. I'd like to believe in the good of man, that's why I don't see any reason why my guns should be taken away. Unless of course HE is the one who is afraid. He's a moron and here's why: if our rights are being stripped away, it's going to be the very people he's insulting who are going to mobilize and defend his freedom to his protests. Our right to bear arms ensures that we can quickly mobilize to form a Militia in the event of a corrupt govornment taking hold. He makes it sound like the stuff of fantasy stories. He is a half-whit non-scholar who needs to take a high school class in American History. I don't even know who he is or why his opinion should be brought into this thread. Of course a grassroots militia would have less of a chance against a larger force with organized military and all the weapons that comes along with it, but the act of defiance against tyranny, and spilling our own blood for the freedom of our nation is winning. For an able-bodied man to do anything but is failure and cowardice, and non-American. He talks as if something like this could never happen, and has never happened. It's in the books. I think I've made my point. His opinion is invalid and illogical.