Under What Circumstances Would You Commit Murder?

[Sinister]

What is the line that someone would have to cross before you would take another's life. Was it something they said? Did they spit on your shoes? Did they ruin your life? Did they threaten another's life? Did they threaten you? Did you take offense to their lifestyle?


What I am saying is this:

Come up with a scenario under which you would commit murder. Someone has placed you in a situation were your only alternative is murder A planned and plotted design to destroy and end someone's life. This isn't a kiddie's question folks. Be serious. Remember, this isn't homicide; it's murder. What does it look like? Would you really do it? How would you rationalize it?



If this thread looks and reads a little creepy to you then, by all means, calm yourself, go get yourself a couple of oreos and a glass of milk and then when you remember the hypothetical realm return and answer the question as best you can. I just want to take a kind of mental census.

[Furore]

Myself? Murder is lame. And weak. Just my own personal opinion. If I was pushed to the point of wanting something dead, a feat that would be fairly hard to do, as I believe premature death is just wasteful, I would probably kill the person BUT give them every chance to defend themselves. Like a duel to the death. Hell, some people I'd arm and take them out with nothing. This depends on the person though.

So say someone decided he'd go kill my mates, my grams and all else I care about. I'd go to the hock-shop and buy a couple of fine looking knives, high quality and sharp as buggery. I would then hunt the person down, chuck the knife of their choice to them and then proceed to go all stab happy on them.

Just bear in mind, I do not feel anyone who knows me would be stupid enough to go that far. They'd have to be just plain crazy or suicidal. And what would make me the most dangerous is my inability to think out some of my actions when pushed to far, coupled with my lack of fear of death or pain. As for rationalising my actions to myself, I wouldn't be able too. But then again, prison don't scare me neither. Some freedom would be lost, sure, but it's just another world really.

[GRIM REAPER]

Well I won't go out looking for a reason to kill somebody. I can put up with allot of shit and walk away just fine and everything. The only time I have ever gotten into fights was to protect somebody. So yeah I would kill if someone close to me is in danger and if killing is the quickest way to prevent any harm to them. I don't want to kill anybody but if I had too I know I would without hesitation to do so, it’s just this feeling I have that I know I am capable of doing it.

[Sinister]

Interesting responses all based on the hypothetical situation where your friends and loved-ones are threatened. But you wouldn't seek out vengence had the deed already been done? Just asking.


For myself, I must draw on my experiences of 22 years of living life and remind myself that I have yet to meet a person so horrendous that I thought they deserved to die. I've met a lot of people. I doubt heavily that I am likely to meet such a person. I just don't swim in those kind of circles where you would meet those sort of people.

But this is all hypothetical, so I shall use my imagination. I meet another vile person but this one is special. He subsists on making people miserable and torturing them through circumstances and manipulating them. Something that I've yet to see being successfully accomplished. And he must be extraordinarily rude and disgusting. My penultimate pet-peeve.

He sets his sights on me, or godforbid, my loved-ones. Anything less than that would not warrant murder. Just a very serious punking. Notice that I made no comment on tense. If he had done the deed or if he had threatened to, would make little difference to me.

My MO would vary considerably on what form his MO would take. I would make it appropriate.



Now the most important part, my rationalization:

I am Taoist by religion. No actual judgements or sets of law save that one follows the Tao at all times. Like enough, this keeps one from harm or causing harm. So really no need to rationalize save just to do it.

[dimmufan]

Interesting topic Sinister. I know a lot of people that I feel do not deserve to be among the living. Sure while I do have bad thought about taking a few of them out, I probably couldn't bring myself to actually do it. Someone would have actually done to something bad to me or someone that I love to warrant this kind of decision. But if it ever came down to it, this is probably how I would go about doing it.

If someone did something that wasn't awesomely horrific, then that would probably just warrant a shot in the head or something along those lines. However, if they did something so severe that it makes you sick just to even think about it, then here is what I'd do: I would subdue my victim and tie him up. I would torture him. With each torture I would explain to him why this is happening to him. I would then break the bones in his arms and his legs. I would then untie him, just to kinda mess with his head. Because now that he's no longer tied up, he still can't do anything about what I'm about to do him. I would then take out his still-beating heart and show it to him. With whatever seconds he has left to him, I hope he starts thinking about everything that ever mattered in his puny existence. Then he will die. As for getting rid of the body, it shouldn't be too hard. I live out in the desert so no one would find his grave for several years, and by then I would have moved on.

[Sinister]

Interesting topic Sinister. I know a lot of people that I feel do not deserve to be among the living. Sure while I do have bad thought about taking a few of them out, I probably couldn't bring myself to actually do it. Someone would have actually done to something bad to me or someone that I love to warrant this kind of decision. But if it ever came down to it, this is probably how I would go about doing it.

If someone did something that wasn't awesomely horrific, then that would probably just warrant a shot in the head or something along those lines. However, if they did something so severe that it makes you sick just to even think about it, then here is what I'd do: I would subdue my victim and tie him up. I would torture him. With each torture I would explain to him why this is happening to him. I would then break the bones in his arms and his legs. I would then untie him, just to kinda mess with his head. Because now that he's no longer tied up, he still can't do anything about what I'm about to do him. I would then take out his still-beating heart and show it to him. With whatever seconds he has left to him, I hope he starts thinking about everything that ever mattered in his puny existence. Then he will die. As for getting rid of the body, it shouldn't be too hard. I live out in the desert so no one would find his grave for several years, and by then I would have moved on.

Thank you.

A fascinating, if visceral, response.

I am vindicated to see that this thread isn't filling with fussy old women who pick and nag around the topic. I certainly hope that you are never forced to use such tactics.

[renzuokun]

well.. i am a Christian but i could come up with a scenario where i was pushed to do it.

say someone were to break into my house, steal all of our money, our electronics, etc. i still really wouldnt kill them. but if someone were to kill my family, no. brutally however, yes, yes i really would kill them. for a gruesome example: my mother and sister were being raped harshly and my father forced to watch while being whipped and having his fingers chopped off. well, **** yeah I'd kill that s.o.b...

[Furore]

Interesting responses all based on the hypothetical situation where your friends and loved-ones are threatened. But you wouldn't seek out vengence had the deed already been done? Just asking.

Actually my post suggested quite the opposite. I would only kill someone if they killed my loved love ones. If they were simply out to kill them I'd just beat some sense into the bastards til they realised killing my loved ones would not be a very good thing to do.

If a person was to kill another I believe they should have a damned fine reason. Not liking someone or believing they'll do something just ain't enough. Hell I reckon if you're capable of killing someone before this criteria is met than you're really insane and a danger to all of those around you.
But that's just me. Maybe that sort of insanity would be justifiable elsewhere?
Hell in some parts of the world it might be necessary.

[Sinister]

Actually my post suggested quite the opposite. I would only kill someone if they killed my loved love ones. If they were simply out to kill them I'd just beat some sense into the bastards til they realised killing my loved ones would not be a very good thing to do.

If a person was to kill another I believe they should have a damned fine reason. Not liking someone or believing they'll do something just ain't enough. Hell I reckon if you're capable of killing someone before this criteria is met than you're really insane and a danger to all of those around you.
But that's just me. Maybe that sort of insanity would be justifiable elsewhere?
Hell in some parts of the world it might be necessary.

Okay, I think I understand then. But it arises some interesting questions that could evolve the topic. Don't get me wrong, I agree and commend with your descision to kill them even though the deed is done.

The logic behind killing a black widow spider crawling next to a baby is direct and obvious, is it not? Prevention. But the logic behind killing a black widow spider after it had already bit the baby is a little more illusive. You would not have taught the spider anything and you would have compounded death with more death only to show your disdain and lack of compunction for slaughtering something.

Vengeance. Justifying vengeance may be harder to do than justifying murder. It is a natural reaction, yes. But the only really logical reason would be to prevent something, which has already occurred, from occurring yet again. You can, for instance, justify thusly: "I killed the spider to prevent it from killing other babies around the world." Which is silly due to the number of deadly spiders that exist.

Or you can go my favorite path. Forego justification. You are the subjective master of your own existence. Logic means little to the injuries of the heart. Vengeance gives one peace of mind and a feeling of closure. To prize that higher than the life of some evil scum is no great departure from sanity. To twist it further by adding appropriate tortures and subtlety is an embellishment you might even derive pleasure from. Even schadenfreude can be understood, although not exactly justified.


For myself. I would kill someone who earnestly threatens my friends and family. I don't doubt it for a second and wouldn't flinch to do it.

[BenRampage]

Well if a robber broke into my house and was gonna hurt my family or if someone was gonna hurt or kill anyone in my family id get them first. Nobody screws with me or my family. But murder is the last option casue i dont wanna see a jail cell haha.

[Sinister]

Ben brings a good point. Talking about time. Nobody wants to be sent up. I guess it pertains to structure. How to make your murder the undetectable murder. The perfect crime. It takes planning. It takes opportunity. It takes some sort of excuse or alibi. But more than anything, it takes time. And if Ben's scenario is true to form, then you really don't have time. Sort of, under-the-gun, so to speak. Interesting point, Ben. But then you might, if you get into a position of being able to do so, arrange time later.

[BenRampage]

Well thats sort of what i meant. Nobody wants to kill another person, unless there crazy or they did soomething bad to whoever. But remember this. Theres a time and place for anything. If someones threatening your life instinct tells you kill him before they kill you. Only the strong live. Again i dont condone killing lol. all im saying, under extreme circumstances there are no rules.

[Dark One]

What is the line that someone would have to cross before you would take another's life. Was it something they said? Did they spit on your shoes? Did they ruin your life? Did they threaten another's life? Did they threaten you? Did you take offense to their lifestyle?

Me umm first of all if u killed anyone in my family i would ****ing kill you.

If u rapid my gf i would kill you.

If you say you are going to kill me i will kill you first.

If you hurt anyone i love or care about enough to make them bleed i may would kill u would mater houw bad but u would stell get an ass beating.

If you told anyone i care about you are going to kill them.

Also if u put a gun to my head u better shot.

Thats about it im sure there are more.

Thanks
Dark One

[Angantyr]

Murder has become such an "evil" act in modern society yet there are more acts of murder than there ever has been in all history. The art of Murder is something which shows you how much YOU as a living feeling being values the life of that person so much so you will effectively take away their entire existence in which they will remain nothing more than a memory.

For me I would love to see a world cleansing cutting down the population to such a level where we can maintain a separatist Society as we would still retain the knowledge of today without the greed this consumerist society has driven to today. The world we live in to ME is an undesirable place were greed and pleasure are the only things valued in life, culture and the arts have been destroyed in favour for a mass produced media and to me a removal of 85% of the worlds population would make living much more desirable.

On an individual basis however the consequences are not worth it, there are many people I wish we could avoid but unfortunately the only way you can do such is to hide continuously from them.

I doubt many of you know about this but perhaps a few from the BoD have heard of the musician Varg who killed one of his friends because of several reasons mostly being self-defence which was quite clear however he never got changed for it. So anyway because he was considered a "Satanist" at the time where as a country is highly Christian not only did he get a lot of Media attention plus a lot of pimple faces wiccan fanbois but he has been denied parole constantly. This doesn't really worry him so much possibly because there are heaps of pimple faced angsty Euronymous fanatics who supposedly hate him and now he's labelled a Neo-Nazi (Which he is not especially considering his admiration for Slavs) and one of the guys from Abruptum threatened to shot him when he gets out. So effectively if he gets out then he's pretty much screwed unless he flees to Russia or fake's his leave... nearly everybody in Norway hates him and everybody in Poland and Germany loves him. I for one do not believe he should have this kind of punishment but its mostly due to the media attention really, in most circumstances he would be out by now.

Murder for me is understandable in self-defence so long as you KNOW you will get killed if you don't (like in a horror movie) have any other choice. Also if somebody sets out to destroy everything you love and have worked for then again its ok. War is a big thing, most of today's wars I completely disagree with but thats not to say I disagree with war all together.

[Furore]

Okay, I think I understand then. But it arises some interesting questions that could evolve the topic. Don't get me wrong, I agree and commend with your descision to kill them even though the deed is done.

The logic behind killing a black widow spider crawling next to a baby is direct and obvious, is it not? Prevention. But the logic behind killing a black widow spider after it had already bit the baby is a little more illusive. You would not have taught the spider anything and you would have compounded death with more death only to show your disdain and lack of compunction for slaughtering something.

Vengeance. Justifying vengeance may be harder to do than justifying murder. It is a natural reaction, yes. But the only really logical reason would be to prevent something, which has already occurred, from occurring yet again. You can, for instance, justify thusly: "I killed the spider to prevent it from killing other babies around the world." Which is silly due to the number of deadly spiders that exist.

Or you can go my favorite path. Forego justification. You are the subjective master of your own existence. Logic means little to the injuries of the heart. Vengeance gives one peace of mind and a feeling of closure. To prize that higher than the life of some evil scum is no great departure from sanity. To twist it further by adding appropriate tortures and subtlety is an embellishment you might even derive pleasure from. Even schadenfreude can be understood, although not exactly justified.


For myself. I would kill someone who earnestly threatens my friends and family. I don't doubt it for a second and wouldn't flinch to do it.

Actually, me being me I don't think I could kill the black widow spider or any other animal that killed a loved one. Why? Because I'd know that the animal in question didn't kill them out of anything other than instincts or a feeling of being threatened or something.

The reason I believe I would kill a person who killed my love ones is that they knew what they were doing. And it would pain me all my days knowing that someone who purposely killed a love one of mine was walking free.

See it's my way of thinking that someone who is unknowing of the crime they committed would be innocent of it. The same would go with a person who is totally insane. I couldn't kill someone like that. Because I see them as not being in control of their actions. People like these I would attempt to capture instead and force to get help in whatever way they could. Bringing someone like to a better state of mind, or a lifetime of looney-bin living would be all the closure I'd need.

And I could never kill someone just threatening someone I care about. Simply as they had really not done anything yet. As I said earlier, all I'd do to them is give them a good hiding til they decide that it's really not worth threatening my loved ones.

[Sinister]

Actually, me being me I don't think I could kill the black widow spider or any other animal that killed a loved one. Why? Because I'd know that the animal in question didn't kill them out of anything other than instincts or a feeling of being threatened or something.

Why does that keep you from killing it? If something has power over you enough to obliterate you and the ones you love and has no hesitation to use it, what difference does it make about it's motivations? That it's acting on instinct or some other natural force, shields it from you?

The reason I believe I would kill a person who killed my love ones is that they knew what they were doing. And it would pain me all my days knowing that someone who purposely killed a love one of mine was walking free.

Exactly. Couldn't have put it better myself. That is the rationalization! The mental anguish is not something that the wronged should have to bear, but the criminal. What right does a criminal have to, through impunity, kill and inflict ever worse wounds upon the loved ones and then leave them to their own suffering.

See it's my way of thinking that someone who is unknowing of the crime they committed would be innocent of it. The same would go with a person who is totally insane. I couldn't kill someone like that. Because I see them as not being in control of their actions. People like these I would attempt to capture instead and force to get help in whatever way they could. Bringing someone like to a better state of mind, or a lifetime of looney-bin living would be all the closure I'd need.

And I could never kill someone just threatening someone I care about. Simply as they had really not done anything yet. As I said earlier, all I'd do to them is give them a good hiding til they decide that it's really not worth threatening my loved ones.

This is very altruistic of you, but be careful in employing this idea. It brings us back to the spider. It has the power, it uses it without the slightest care or thought for the repercussions. It doesn't hate. It doesn't like. It just destroys. What sort of life would you be ending? A happy one? A valuable one? Whilst it has already ended(or is about to) the lives you value the most.

IMO, Insanity is not an excuse. It's a handicap.


Anyway. I understand what you mean Celtic and it is an excellent point. I don't mean to change such an admirable position. I was just trying to show my own train of thought. And I'm glad that we all had this discussion. This thread is already worth ten times the effort, with which, I thought it up.

-Sin

[FF Ace Cid]

The only way I would kill someone is if it was in a life or death situation, kill or be killed. If someone was going to kill someone I, being the person that I am, would do all that was in my power to stop them. This being said, I am not the biggest person around, but I am willing to do what I can to help. There is no need in taking anyone's life, and I would much rather avoid it.

[isntitlovely]

Meh, I've always said "If you want to kill me, fine, go for it, whatever, but if you mess with my friends, you die."

[Hjortkayre]

I'm not that sure I could bring myself to take someone's life no matter what the situation.
If they had hurt my friends and family, had hurt, or even killed, my loved ones, then I would want them to hurt at least. Really.... it depends whether tey knew what they were doing. If they were unaware, if they were maybe insane or something, then I would still want them to hurt but not die. If they were insane, then it wouldn't really have been there fault, they wouldn't have had control over themselves.
A sane person hurtin or killing those I care about, however, is a different matter entirely. They knew what they were doing all along, they knew they were hurting people, not just the people they were killing. They done it for a reason.
I would hurt them, probably torture them make them pay. Wound them. But kill them? To take someone's life... it's kinda final. There's no going back. If I was in a blind fury, I probably wouldn't be able to stop myself. But if you stop and think for just one minute, that's when it comes crashing down on you. This person could have so much to look forward to. There must be people who love him to. it's things like that which put yo off murdering anyone.
But, if I had to, if he had really hurt me, either physically or emtionallt, I think i would find the strength in their somewhere...

[Cunnning Stunts]

Under which Circumstances would I commit murder?

I'd have to be in a nightclub or something, relaxing all cool and just hanging out. Then some guys would start having beef. So, heated words would be exchanged. Then I'd go home, grab my Ak-47 and blast those fools.

[some guy]

Mmm, I'm really getting into these intellectual discussions, even though I believe I'm not that smart but some people come up with some great things to ponder over, and this is one of them.
One of my friends asked me a while ago in a maths class "would you ever kill anyone?", me being the angry little bastard I am replied "yes" which scared the crap out of him. Although I just said that to him to scare him, I personally don't think I would have to balls to murder anyone (.....personally >.> lol). But if it were for revenge that brings up "you're only as bad as he is". But Maybe with the right....or really I should say wrong motivation, I would, but that would have to be in the lowest of all low day's in were EVERYTHING is going wrong, and someone is absolutely f*cking up my life purposely, then I would think of a mere stabbing.....no murder....

[Confession]

Ok now this thread brings many things into retrospect.

"Would you kill"

I believe that in any situation where a person knew their life was in jeporady, they would completely defend themselves even if "murder" was the outcome.
I'm not saying that all people would just kill at anytime im saying that it is an animalistic adaptation for us to defend oursleves to the death. I would not kill in cold blood although I say it alot to make people be quiet. It is only an instinct few people have the possestion

[pulse]

I can't logically imagine any reason for why I would kill someone, though I suppose if a loved ones life was in danger I could imagine losing enough sanity to do it in the moment. But that's about it.

[Proxy]

I would kill people all the time if it weren’t against the law. While I value human life I don’t value all human life.

In a world where murder weren’t illegal we can safely assume an absence of social norms and a common sense of morality. So, for me to kill, we’d have to throw those things out too.

In that event I’d hunt down rapists, people who abuse their spouses, drunk drivers, anyone responsible for genocide, pretty much anybody everybody agrees should be killed but can’t be thanks to our “system of Justice.”

Then, of course, since murder isn’t illegal… bad drivers, people who don’t know what they want at Starbucks, loud cell phone talkers, people who kick the back of your chair in move theatres, the overtly odiferous, boys who wear thongs (and have them exposed), people on forums who 'lmfao' in nearly every single post… I mean since murder isn’t illegal, why not? Decrease the surplus population I always say.

[Kain FF4]

I would only commit murder under certain circumstances.
First off, there would have to be some sort of self defence thing going on, becuase i would NOT go to jail! EVER!
Second either my life or someone i love's life must be in danger.
For example, If some dude was holding a gun pointing at my Girlfriend about to pull the trigger, i would run over tackle that son of a b****, repeatedly punching him in the face until he is uncontentious, the grab the gun, shoot him in the genitals, then ram his nose staight into his brain, cuasing instant death. It would be in a life thetening situation for me and my Girlfriend so the murder would be justified, keeping me from a long stay in jail, and i would have saved the life of the one person that is most important to me.
That is just one situation, im sure there are others.
So what i am saying is i would kill to prevent the death of someone i care about.


This is a very interesting and odd topic but an incredably good one, good job Sinister

[Pete]

Proxy wouldn't you just be committing your own kind of genocide, by eliminating everyone who you don't like? Sounds a little too third reich for me.

I don't think I'd have much of a problem killing someone if they had it coming. Essentially, this would be a person who has done something horrendous to my friends or family. I wouldn't even have much of a problem using any particular weapon. If you **** with my family or friends, you get hurt. Dead? I don't necessarily know about that, it depends on the circumstances, but a trip to the hospital if they can make it there could be a possibility.

Granted, I say this now and have never killed, and hopefully I won't have to. Regardless, I have enough friends and know enough people to cover my ass.

[Ayse]

I'd only kill if I were asked to. If a love one was suffering with an illness, was in constant pain, or didn't want to be on life support, and asked me to end their life for them, and I knew they were being serious about it, I'd probably do it.

I don't believe in an eye for an eye. That’s just stupidity. The whole "you killed someone I love so I'll kill you" thing is making you no better then the person who killed your love one. I'd rather see the person rot in prison then be killed. We seriously need better prison arrangements and better sentencing for that sort of thing to happen though.

[Cunnning Stunts]

Granted, I say this now and have never killed, and hopefully I won't have to. Regardless, I have enough friends and know enough people to cover my ass.

Spoken like a true bitch. I hate people like that. "Oh, I know a bunch of tough guys, so that makes me a tough guy too!" Ever hear of fighting your own battles princess, Mario ain't always gonna be around to save you."
There, three sentences. No spam for me.

[Furore]

Spoken like a true bitch. I hate people like that. "Oh, I know a bunch of tough guys, so that makes me a tough guy too!" Ever hear of fighting your own battles princess, Mario ain't always gonna be around to save you."
There, three sentences. No spam for me.

All it means is Pete don't have to worry so much. I'm sure he has their back just as much as they have his. My friends are the same.
Most people can't take on several people themselves too easily regardless of toughness. Cos while you take on a few people, another can catch you off guard...
It's not weak in today's day and age, it's ****ing smart.

[Pete]

Or it could simply mean, as Celtic said, that I have people that'd be there to help me out, no questions asked, like if I were going to fight a group of people. Sorry to say, that while I'm fairly well versed in jujitsu and in decent shape, I'm also smart enough to know not to go into anything terribly outnumbered. And that's where friends step in. They're also useful for things like alibi's in case any serious shit goes down.

Not everyone is going to don the black trench coat and ak47 and blast through the high school, buddy