The right to die....

[smurphy]

What are your views on assisted suicide? Should people who want to die for whatever reason(complete physical impairment, terminal cancer etc) be allowed the right to die on their own conditions just as the UN Charter of Human Rights allows everyone the right to life? Should it be made available to everyone regardless of condition?

There has been a bit of uproar in the UK and Ireland over this issue recently. There have been examples of family members travelling with their soon-to-be deceased family member to Switzerland for the procedure only to face prosecution in the UK and Ireland for doing so by some twisted morality. Which I view as complete Bullsh*t as these family members have it hard enough without the government interfering in what is a highly personal issue.

[Furore]

I believe we should have the right if it's what we want. If someone doesn't want to die like that, that's their thing and the powers that be shouldn't be allowed to force people to live and suffer if they don't wish to.

That said, I think the Hippocratic Oath should stop medical professionals from assisting as there's a chance of malpractice there, but someone else could instead utilising a more humane method.

[FeyLenne13]

I think the people that oppose this have never had to watch someone they love waste away as something incurable eats them from the inside out. Ten years ago next month, I watch cancer slowly, excutionatingly slowly, eat my father alive. Many times he asked for it to end, said his goodbyes and was ready to die. The hospice people sent to make him comfortable pumped him full of so much morphine he was barely able to speak. Any less of the pain meds and he would be in so much pain. Looking back, even though I was just a girl, I think of the pain he was in and how he was prepared to die weeks, maybe even months, before the cancer actually took him and I know that there was a way to prevent his suffering. It should have been his right to end his suffering his way, on his terms I think.

[Unknown Entity]

If I knew for one moment that I was dying of an incurable disease, and that not only would I end up in constant pain, but I'd have to watch my loved ones watch me as my light slowly snuffs out, I'd want to put an end to my life the moment it becomes too much for me and my family to bare. It's not fair on me having to "live with it", not fair on my family who'll have to "live with it" too, and it's not fair on someone who might need my hospital bed - someone who can be saved or treated.

I shudder at the thought of not being able to wipe my own ass, or of forgetting the names of my friends and family, and having to sit around 24/7 covered in tubes and drips to aid my pains. In my opinion, when you're at that stage of being a vegetable (no offence, I realise that's blunt), how can you call it a life? It's not a life.

So yes, I'm all for assisted suicide or Euthanasia as some might prefer to call it. I mean, you can already fill out forms which say you don't wish to be resuscitated if you were in that position, which in my opinion is already one step closer to euthanasia. Your life is in your hands.

[Heartless Angel]

I very much support euthanasia. Medicine is a science. Morality has no place in science. At the point whe you're incurable, and 'extending life' is nothing more than prolonging death, to deny that person their death, keeping them alive is the greatest failure to uphold the very essence of the hippocratic oath, to consider and care for the patient before yourself and others. When a man says "let me die" the only reason a person would want to refuse them that request is to suit their own morality or that of the patient's family, or in an attempt to save themselves from the possibility of somebody trying to take legal action against you. Nothing there sounds like concern or care for the guy you've left suffering in a bed he'll never leave.

One must consider very seriously the difference between living and surviving. I may be able to survive in a bed full of tubes dripping shit into me to keep my body functioning, but I sure as hell can't live that way. As far as I'm concerned, the day I can no longer live the way I choose, whether I can still survive or not, I, the person I am, living at this moment, AM dead. My body just hasn't realized it yet, and it becomes nothing more than a prison for my mind. As an athiest and materialist, I don't believe I'd be leaving and going to some heaven or afterlife, but I'd gladly accept nihility over continuing to rot away in a meaningless existence devoid of any pleasure or fulfilment, and wasting the time, money, and energy of my still living friends and family. They've got lives left to live, there's no reason at all for them to waste a moment of it thinking about the medical care of my empty shell.

[Aerif]

Feylenne, I'm glad that you brought that point to the table because up until I read your post I was thinking the exact opposite to you. How could anyone support euthanasia if they had been in a situation where they had to choose between killing a loved one or keeping them alive in pain.

There is no way of knowing what tomorrow might bring for medicine. I personally think that there will be a cure for cancer some time in the next ten years, that doesn't mean that the scientists who discover it will release it (because there are a fair number of heartless scientists who have no sense of morality), but we can always hope for a cure no matter how bad a situation gets.

I recently lost my grandfather in January, he had been admitted to hospital just before Christmas because his insulin levels had dropped and discharged on the 30th of December with no complications. He unfortunately had an unexpected stroke on the night of his release and his pacemaker shattered, damaging his heart and lungs.

He remained in a coma-like state for almost a month, before passing away at the end of January since he could not breathe. We had a do-not-resuscitate on him. He was seventy, left behind a wife, six children, thirteen grandchildren and a great-grandchild with a second great-grandchild being born before the funeral.

We knew he was in pain, he could talk at times and opened his eyes, recognised our voices and I believe he made it through a rosary when the priest went to visit him. But at no point did I think the correct thing to do was to put him out of his misery. If he had requested that we kill him, I don't think any of us would have complied. Because you never know with medicine, there's always a chance. It may seem selfish, but if we had pulled the theoretical plug, and some groundbreaking new therapy that could save his life emerged the next day that would be a lot more painful than watching him waste away.

I understand that the typical patients who want to end their lives have faced longer than a month in a poor state, but taking another life is still murder. And we don't have any right to do that. I hope that I never end up in a situation where I have to make that choice, because I could never let someone I was close to leave this world when they have the choice to stay.

[Heartless Angel]

Actually, we had to make a descision like that just recently in my family, with my great uncle. He wanted to go, so he was going to refuse treatment. We had power of attorney, we could've overridden that descision if we so chose. The man had lived a good long life, and was ready to move on to the afterlife he believed was waiting for him. There was nothing left for him to do in this world. He died in the hospital a few days after refusing continued treatment, and he died completely sound of mind, capable of interecting with people. And he died surrounded by friends and family. Not one person in that room wanted him to stay there rotting away in misery. To keep him there when most of them believed he had the option of moving on to the afterlife where he'd be forever free of pain would be selfish and cruel.

There is no way of knowing what tomorrow might bring for medicine. I personally think that there will be a cure for cancer some time in the next ten years, that doesn't mean that the scientists who discover it will release it (because there are a fair number of heartless scientists who have no sense of morality), but we can always hope for a cure no matter how bad a situation gets.

Hope is all well and good, but what people don't need is false hope. Yeah, there's a chance that a cure for cancer could be discovered tomorrow. The odds of that happening however are astronomically bad. I'm not much of a gambler. Given a the 1:1,000,000,000 chance I'll be saved and get to continue a happy pain free life don't stand up too well to the 999,999,999:1,000,000,000 chance I'll still be here in misery tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after, and so on. If I die, the odds of me losing and continuing to suffer are 0. There is no safer bet.

We knew he was in pain, he could talk at times and opened his eyes, recognised our voices and I believe he made it through a rosary when the priest went to visit him. But at no point did I think the correct thing to do was to put him out of his misery. If he had requested that we kill him, I don't think any of us would have complied. Because you never know with medicine, there's always a chance. It may seem selfish, but if we had pulled the theoretical plug, and some groundbreaking new therapy that could save his life emerged the next day that would be a lot more painful than watching him waste away.

That IS selfish. Forcing a man to suffer so you can feel happy while counting on a fool's gamble to pay off is among the most selfish things I could think of. We do not exist for the amusement of our families. I sure as hell ain't gonna suffer for their amusement. My life belongs to me, and I'll do with it whatever I damn well please. It'll go the way I want it, or it will end.

I understand that the typical patients who want to end their lives have faced longer than a month in a poor state, but taking another life is still murder. And we don't have any right to do that.

Taking a life is murder. Taking however implies that it belonged to another, and theydid not wish to lose it. To force a man to continue to live so that you can feel better, THAT is taking his life. Taking it, and keeping it because you refuse to let him do with it what he chooses.

I hope that I never end up in a situation where I have to make that choice, because I could never let someone I was close to leave this world when they have the choice to stay.

When you make it for them, they DON'T have the choice. You've taken the choice away from them because you believe you know better how they should live and how they should die.

[Tiffany]

I very much agree with it.

We don't even do this to our animals. When they are in too much pain, we put them out of their misery. Same should go with our family members too.

I do have a "but" about it though. First being that if you still have a quality of life, then no go. Like if I found out tomorrow that I have cancer, the first thing I do is decided its time to die. Like other people mentioned, cures could come at any time.

In tying with that, it would have to be (for me) the very last of it all. If I'm in constant pain and I'm basically being kept in a morphine-induced haze... then let me go. If that makes sense?

[Aerif]

I'm not going to be quoting parts of your post and deconstructing sentences, Heartless Angel. Because this isn't the place and because I just can't understand what is wrong with you if you think it was selfish of me to want my grandda to stay alive.

In fact, I'm absolutely disgusted by you. Do you think I was happy watching his condition deteriorate? I was relieved that he wouldn't need to go through any more pain when he died. But that doesn't mean I would actively choose to end his being.

Now, on principle I'm not going to participate any further in this topic, because I never thought I would encounter somebody as insensitive as you. These comments have hurt me and last night I was considering leaving the forum because of them. But you can't blame a forum for it's users, the same as you can't possibly judge another person without being in their situation.

[Lily]

i dont understand why folk cant. id rather die than suffer/have the indignity of having my arse wiped because im incapable

if its good enough for a suffering animal...

[Heartless Angel]

Everybody wants their loved ones to live, that's a given.

Nobody is happy watching someone deteriorate either, also a given.

You were relieved when it happened because he was free of pain, also a common feeling.

To grant that freedom sooner is among the most difficult choices a person can ever make. Nobody gets out of a situation like that without some pain. Somebody has to be selfish.

A somewhat selfless man would never ask for the relief of death to be given by his family, just because it's a given that almost everybody thinks as you do, at very least to some minor extent, and making that request is going to hurt family and friends whether they agree to it or not. If they agree, they feel the pain of loss, amplified by making the descision to cause it. If they don't, they feel the pain of knowing the person they care for continues to suffer, a lesser pain, but pain nonetheless.

A truly selfless man wouldn't even make mention of their suffering. Taking the pain entirely upon himself, asking no shoulder to cry on, to keep his family and friends happy for a little while longer, that is the ultimate gift a dying man can give.

Unfortunately not all men are selfless. Fewer still are truly selfless. Not all men are strong enough to shoulder that burden alone. When a dying man DOES make the descision nobody wants to hear, the burden falls to the family.

As I previously agreed to, nobody wants their loved ones to die. This is why many are appalled by the suggestion of euthanasia. Loss and pain are some of, if not THE most powerful motivators for a person. To make the descision to let a man die, is to accept not only the pain of losing a loved one, but the pain of having chosen or allowed it yourself, entirely for the benefit of a suffering loved one. To take on that pain yourself solely to ease the suffering of another, particularly one whom you care for, that is true selflessness.

Inversely, this is why it's selfish to deny a man the right to die when he's chosen it. Instead of taking his pain on yourself and releasing him, you choose to shield yourself from it with false hope of recovery, and a belief that letting him continue to live is doing him a favor. And when the gamble is lost, as it almost always is, you feel a sense of relief their pain is over, and you diminish the pain you're obligated to feel at a loved one's death, not having to have made the impossible choice yourself.