Brexit

[Alpha]

So the UK is to leave the European Union.

That's pretty damn historic. At work today everyone was watching the live poll results as the UK slept. I suspect many of those living in the UK woke up to quite a scary surprise. My brother just moved back home after two years living in the UK; he's just happy he got his money out before the crash in the value of the GBP—it's just had its biggest fall in history. The Euro will surely follow, as this significantly weakens the EU and provides an impetus for other European nations to hold their own referendums. This is only the beginning of the story. I also feel for the Scots, who just voted to remain in the UK, yet also voted strongly in favour of remaining in the EU. If they'd voted for independence they wouldn't be in such a sticky situation. I suspect this will might lead to Scottish independence (and maybe even Irish re-unification), and a surge in the more cosmopolitan inhabitants of the UK to move to Edinburgh.

What are your thoughts and experiences of Brexit?

[Coff9]

This is a complicated issue.

I usually don't weigh in on politics or social matters here on a forum dedicated to my favorite video-game series, but I feel compelled to for this one.

I don't want to get into deep-detail, but here's what I think:

As far as all my research indicates, the EU is exceptionally corrupt; Britain leaving will set a precedent that might cause other nations to also leave, eventually dissolving the EU.

Will this decision make things difficult for the UK for the foreseeable future? Yes. But after, say, about a decade or so, the UK will regain its footing and, I think, become an economic powerhouse.

Its economic policies and position in the global market were overly restricted by the Lovecraftian bureaucracy that is the EU, but once Brexit is official and a "done deal", the UK will rise to be a leader on the world-stage.

It will be a rough road, but it will be worth it in the end.

I am proud of them for making this decision; I honestly thought they wouldn't.

That's all I have to say.

[nix]

Yeah Sinn fein are pushing for a United Ireland, which a part of me would love to see, but i dont think it will be that great a thing, as i dont know the changes or possible hurt all this hulabaloo will cause..

I honestly dont care if England want out, they can go and shite, im sad for the other British countries and the rest of europe, it could all fall apart and for no ****ing good reason at all, heck alot of voters are over in France supporting their teams and didnt get a chance to vote and im pretty sure most who voted to leave didnt have a ****ing clue what ramifications of leaving will cause

[charliepanayi]

Idiotic decision, should never have been a referendum. I live in London and we think most of the rest of England and Wales are off their rockers.

[Clint]

Choosing sovereignty over globalization is the best decision the UK could have made. This was a big "**** you" to the establishment, the bankers, and the corporations who threatened the people to stay. If the EU wants to ignore the voice of the people, such as their concerns over immigration, this is what deserves to happen. This is a political uprising, and it feels like the people finally have some sort of power over the political establishment.

I hope other countries follow, realize the corruption of the EU, see it for what it truly is, and like the UK, vote to leave. The EU is a corporation that cares about status and money rather than people. Any controlling system that places the value of money over people is a system that deserves to fail.

[charliepanayi]

Yeah, because the likes of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage are so anti-establishment. The people have just given the Tories even more free reign to rip up public services. In a few years the idiots who voted to leave will be confused when the NHS hasn't magically improved. As for saying the EU places money over people, again, you're kidding yourself if you think Boris Johnson and co care about people. Oh wait, they do, but only if they're rich.

And you say 'concerns about immigration', I say xenophobia borne out of ignorance. It's no surprise most of the places where the Leave vote was highest are ones where there are virtually no immigrants at all. London was far more pro-EU and we get most of the immigration. But then we're clearly less dim than a lot of England and Wales.

[Clint]

Am I supposed to know who Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage are? Are they British politicians? I'm from Delaware, man.

Concerns over immigration isn't xenophobia. Wherever refugees flock in Europe experiences a drastic rise in crime. Viewing statistics and realizing that there needs to be stronger restrictions in regards to immigration in no way correlates to "I hate Muslims and I don't want them in my country." That is a ridiculous argument to make.

If you want to vote to remain a slave of the new world order, that's your choice, but luckily you live in a democracy, and they made the smarter choice. Anti-globalization is the way of the future. Prepare to experience freedom for the first time in your life. You have been unshackled from the municipal corporation that owned you, at least for the time being. Celebrate.

[Alpha]

The EU is not globalisation, it's a regional bloc, which in essence is just what the United States is, but the EU is actually one level down with more local self-determination in certain aspects (try having a separate currency in one state). I'll try my best to make a local metaphor for you. What if Texas seceded, because it didn't like people from Delaware moving there? Texas would suffer from the more limited mobility of labour. Bureaucracy would probably get worse on both sides of the split as bureaucrats on both sides have to come to terms with how things move across this new border. Bureaucrats on both sides have more redundant work as both make independent arrangements with third parties (e.g. Texas-Mexico trade relations, and Mexico-United States trade relations). People from other states but who have lived in Texas for years are now in the lurch, uncertain of what the future holds for them. People in Texas, particularly the young, really have fewer freedoms than before, now that their horizons are largely constrained to Texas, with relatively severe conditions imposed on being able to conduct their affairs outside of Texas.

If you support Brexit, you should probably support the dissolution of the United States for similar reasons. So do you, Clint? Why?

Brexit is likely to shrink the size of the UK economy considerably. Why should a company base itself in the UK as a launchpad to Europe, now that the UK is not really in Europe? Sure, the UK is likely to be a robust, mature and effective society for a very long time, with much less isolation than countries such as Australia and New Zealand (which were barely affected by the global financial crisis and are growing relatively fast). It won't be an unmitigated disaster, but it's still immensely unfortunate.

The NHS can't be improved if the UK economy shrinks.

And it's a one-way shift. The UK has had considerable exceptions in EU rules that it has earned through being a historical member. It would be inconceivable, to me, that if the UK does manage to re-enter the EU, that it would be allowed to keep the pound. It would also be subject to veto by any of the member states. Why would France accept the UK's re-entry after it just gave a giant middle finger to the EU?

Brexit was largely a damaging, irreversible mistake driven by old, xenophobic twats living in the countryside. Any perceived gains in increased self-determination are not going to make up for it, unless you're a racist.

[Pete]

I don't think it's xenophobic to be against changing parts of your country to sharia law because immigrants are moving in and demanding it, with an implied threat of violence.

I also don't think it's xenophobic to have a national language (good job with that America), or to believe that as an immigrant, you're allowed to keep your own culture, but should be expected to learn the new language and assimilate. It drives me nuts that people are allowed to take drivers license tests or VOTE in one of 20 different languages.

[charliepanayi]

Pretty sure most immigrants do better with English than the English do with foreign languages. I don't see the Spanish demanding that all the English pensioners living over there learn Spanish.

And there are no immigrants demanding sharia law and threatening violence, other than in Daily Mail fantasy land. Just 5% of the UK population is Muslim, and most people who throw up their hands in horror over Muslims live in areas where there aren't any. And Islam has little to do with the EU anyway, since EU immigrants aren't Muslim, so it has no relevance to the referendum we just had.

[Alpha]

Can't help but feel there is more xenophobia in the UK about Polish Catholic plumbers than Syrian Muslim refugees.

Which Native American language do you speak, Pete?

[Pete]

I'm saying that if you move to another land, you should learn the language and immerse yourself in that culture, as opposed to just forming isolated communities. That's the shit that actually causes xenophobia; the staunch opposition to embracing your new land by forming subcommunities that operate almost outside of mainstream society

And Alpha, my great, great grandparents came to America. Didn't speak a lick of English, but learned. If I moved to another, non English speaking county, I would do my best to learn. I might be different there, but at least I'd be trying.

[Clint]

The EU is not globalisation, it's a regional bloc,

It would be a regional bloc if the EU was strictly about trade within it's countries, but the EU tends to focus more on creating one single culture within Europe, which is just as ridiculous as the United States attempting to create a single culture within every state. Governments want people to behave and think exactly the same. It makes control easier. That's one of the major issues with globalization. Another issue I have with globalization is the tendency for policymakers to move taxation away from corporations, and place it on individual citizens. Any system of control that favors corporations over people is a system that deserves to fail. Globalization encourages dependency on other countries for goods and services, which in itself damages the economy of the individual country.

Globalization also links so many countries together that if one country collapses, it creates a rippling effect throughout all associated countries. Which brings me to your inquiry.

If you support Brexit, you should probably support the dissolution of the United States for similar reasons. So do you, Clint? Why?

The United States is a municipal corporation that treats its citizens like property. Everything the government touches turns to shit. Their educational reform failed. Their healthcare reform failed. Prohibition failed. No Child Left Behind was a joke. Medicare is putting us more into debt, same with Medicaid. The immigration reform is obviously a failure judging from how many illegals are still living here. Farm subsidies was ****ing retarded. The War on Drugs was a failure since day one. Social security, DDT, the war on terror, Monsanto, etc. Do I need to go on?

The federal government is out of touch with what the people actually need, and not all of that is a result of incompetence (although a lot of it is.) An obvious solution to every problem America is facing would be to split the country into 50 individual countries. Every state already has its own constitution and laws, though if dissolution were to occur, there would need to be major reforms within each state's laws. I'm all for the collapse of the US government, and I'm all for the collapse of the dollar. The current system is a failure, and it's because a few people attempt to govern too many people at once. A smaller demographic of people, for example, that of the population of a single state, would more accurately determine the needs and concerns of the people.

Perhaps if the Confederacy won the Civil War, and managed to increase the power of state governments and lessen the power of the federal government, none of this would be an issue today. But the wrong side won that war.

If you prefer slavery over freedom, you support the EU. I'm sure the Rothschild family are very happy to have you as a puppet to their cause.

[Pete]

I'm with Clint inasmuch as agreeing that the government thinks what's good for the goose is good for the gander. The US has local law, state law and federal law reigning over various jurisdictions. I like the idea of having a federal statute of basic laws and regulations and penalties. I also believe that certain cash crops should be regulated. I don't care about weed. I don't smoke it, but Ithink it should be decriminalized and regulated. People would be subject to the same regulations as alcohol. Certain jobs and professions would and should require you to be clean. For the rest of it, set a healthy tax, similar if not greater than tobacco.

I would much prefer a smaller government, where the states have more say in the allocation of funds, and the distribution of such. New York experiences the worst of this. Most of the money goes to the city and the island, predominantly blue counties, most populated by minorities but also the wealthiest. Upstate, which is 90% of the state landmass, white, rural and red, gets a fraction of that.