Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them!

[che]

You should take Taco Bell's slogan and use it for your own good, and "think outside the box".

[Meier Link]

Not a fan of the profanity in ID yet it is not against the rules to use such words in ID, yet. But to intentionally flame some one is even if it is in jest. Cut the crap or I will issue warning with out any though into it.

As for the topic at hand., I will have to come back and contribute on. A real computer.

[AshNStuff]

Nice story about rape. Good one. I hope you sleep better tonight after getting that off your shoulders. My apologies if you actually were raped, but I'm not buying it. If you actually thought you were raped you wouldn't casually talk about it like that, because it's a pretty serious issue. That's a topic for another thread, though.

So basically you think women have to hold 100% of the weight on their shoulders for abortion? I disagree. Yes, women carry a child in their bodies for 9ish months. That's the only part of pregnancy that is solely the woman's part. Even that isn't truly all about the woman. You seem to think men are irresponsible pigs who live off the fact that they don't have to carry a child in their womb, which is true in some cases, but you're kind of an asshole for assuming that it's 100% of all cases.

The responsibility of a pregnancy is equally both men and women's. The physical aspect is what causes the imbalance in the equality, but that doesn't rule the man out of being responsible.

ps: Heartless Angel, shut the **** up with the "she should have kept her legs closed" shit. Stop putting all the guilt on the woman for such an act. It's (usually) a mutual decision when people have sex. If you're going to say that, then when you get someone pregnant you didn't want to, I'm going to tell you that you should have kept your **** soft.

haha, you didn't get what I was saying. I also said that I know that it was a good deal my fault. And yes it's a true story, but I really don't care if you believe me lol. It was only traumatizing in the sense that I lost my virginity when I didn't want to, but I got over it because I know I'm not a slut and that shit happens.

& I'm not saying that, but a pregnancy can complicate a woman's health in various ways. For a man, that does not happen. Some women even die from it, not so much anymore but it's still possible. That's all I was saying, really.. so don't cry, and don't cream your panties... it will be okay my friend

[che]

haha, you didn't get what I was saying. I also said that I know that it was a good deal my fault. And yes it's a true story, but I really don't care if you believe me lol. It was only traumatizing in the sense that I lost my virginity when I didn't want to, but I got over it because I know I'm not a slut and that shit happens.

& I'm not saying that, but a pregnancy can complicate a woman's health in various ways. For a man, that does not happen. Some women even die from it, not so much anymore but it's still possible. That's all I was saying, really.. so don't cry, and don't cream your panties... it will be okay my friend

No, you didn't get what I was saying. You consented to it, drunk or not. The fact that you regret it doesn't make it rape, and it doesn't make you a slut either.

Also, I realize that women can have health problems with pregnancy, and the possibility of death when the child is born. I was referring to the responsibility of men regarding pregnancy. I even mentioned exactly this in my post. Did you read it?

[AshNStuff]

No, you didn't get what I was saying. You consented to it, drunk or not. The fact that you regret it doesn't make it rape, and it doesn't make you a slut either.

Also, I realize that women can have health problems with pregnancy, and the possibility of death when the child is born. I was referring to the responsibility of men regarding pregnancy. I even mentioned exactly this in my post. Did you read it?

I drunkenly consented to it, I suppose... I don't even remember lol. & I can't remember that either. I'm too high for this

[Alpha]

You know I actually like this thread. I put effort into creating it. I like reading reasoned responses to the issues I, and those who have replied, have made.

So I don't want to see it closed. If you're not going to add anything, kindly go away, and we can all be happy.

To get it back on track, and to harvest some pitiful amount of relevancy from the last few posts, lets discuss the issue of rape, as a masculist might see it.

I have a (male) friend who was accused of rape. He went out drinking, and met a girl in a bar. They continued drinking, and eventually stumbled to her place and had sex. He never bought her any alcohol. They bought their own drinks all night; no one got anyone else drunk. All was well for a drunken one-night stand.

The next day the girl woke up angry, and I suppose a little ashamed that she had let her defences down so readily. I don't think she was really into the one night stand thing, or wasn't mentally prepared for it/didn't know what she was getting into.

So she accused my friend of rape.

Of course, I was never there. I don't know the full story. But I know my friend, and trust his word. He said the whole thing was consensual. He asked if she wanted to have sex several times; whether she was on the pill; and he wore a condom. But she just woke up regretting her decisions, and decided to ruin his life.

The police were involved. My friend said the whole time it felt as though the police had decided he was already guilty, there was no presumption of innocence, and anything the girl said was treated as being unqualified truth.

After a while, with my friend down in the dumps and even attempting suicide, the police determined that there was not enough evidence to charge my friend.

NOT that the girl had made a false claim. Their decision amounted to: we trust her word more than yours, but we can't find enough evidence to support her statements.

The investigation was not one of proving his innocence, but entirely of establishing his guilt.

Now, I have no doubt that rape is actually more common than most people care to admit. By no means do I mean to say that rape isn't an important issue, or to try and stigmatise women who go to the police after they are actually raped. But the mentality that the police demonstrated in this case is that if a woman says she was raped, and a man argues that she just regrets the consensual sex, the burden of proof is entirely on the male.

When flicking across the Internet when writing this post, a common issue raised in men's activist circles is the fact that women cannot be charged with rape. It is not possible, anywhere (to the best of my knowledge). Why is this so?

Certainly, rape committed by males is more common than that committed by females. But it's not impossible for a woman to rape -- yet it remains a legal impossibility. Moreover, as stated, false allegations of rape are actually quite common, and can only ever occur against men -- not because they are the only perpetrators of rape, but because they are the only gender capable of being charged with it.

Thoughts?

[Heartless Angel]

Thank you Alpha, for guiding this back on track. I decided not to post here until someone did, because when shit goes off topic I usually just make it worse >.<

First of all, no crime has a higher rate of false accusations than rape. This primarily because females think that if they decide they should've said no after the fact, that counts the same as if they'd actually said no to begin with. Not how it works. Giving consent while intoxicated, or otherwise judgement impaired is still giving consent. A man is not at fault for failure to determine that you don't mean what you say, or determining that tomorrow you'll change your mind. You say yes, it's on you.

Fortunately, to be charged as a criminal, the burden of proof is always on the accusor, unfortunately, society's image of a person doesn't nescessarily follow the same rule. In most cases, when a false charge is dropped, it's done because of lack of evidence (big suprise, because there's no evidence of an event that never occured), however, people still assume the victim of the false accusation did it, shifting the burden to prove to the world that you're not a piece of shit to the accused (which is generally impossible, since these cases are almost always his word vs. hers, and society's already decided who they agree with), ruining their reputation, and causing alot of undeserved problems for some unfortunate male, because some girl can't accept responsibility for her mistakes.

As for females being legally immune to rape, that's for the most part true. I think a couple states and countries do allow a woman to be charged as a rapist if they penetrate the anus (regardless of gender) or vagina with fingers or an object, but some do explicitly state that only a man can be a rapist, while a female forcing sex on somebody without their consent can only be charged with sexual assault. This is of course, complete and utter bullshit. If it's a crime it should be a crime for everybody. Though to be perfectly honest, I can't imagine it would make a whole lot of difference even if a woman could be charged with rape, because most men would be unwilling to admit they'd been raped by a girl, I mean that's kind of humiliating. "Yeah, this chick who I should in theory be stronger than held me down and had sex with me, which I'm supposed to like, but I really didn't want to screw a chick...", sounds manly, right? Alot of women don't report actual rape because they're embarrassed by it, I imagine it'd be even worse for men. If a woman could be accused, and I were a cop, and some guy told me a chick raped them, in all honesty my first thought would probably be, "He's joking, right?". The lawmakers were probably thinking the same thing when they wrote those laws.

I actually wasn't aware that women couldn't be charged with rape until your post Alpha, which led me to go look it up, thanks for that. I intend to talk to my elected officials about that every so often now. Not that it's likely to acomplish anything, but it'll make me feel better.

[Rowan]

Does anyone have a reply to what I wrote previously?

[nickness89]

Feminists are a pest. How can you take a stand against an entire sex when its the individuals that are making the decisions. Do feminists think guys get together and discuss ways to belittle women in the world? They make me sick. 'Feminism' implies the action to make 'womens rights' known throughout the communites they dwell therein and beyond. What the hell rights are they talking about that have to do with MALES. Wage equities are and should ALWAYS be based upon skill level, thats the way it is. I have never known a women to be paid less because she is a women, by a man who says "you are going to be paid less because you are a women." Gender related issues are irrlevant in this world as long as there will always be the individiual. The individial is the person who is responsible for themselves, and does not represent a whole. The whole being the Male gender which feminists have fussed up a whine about.

Domestic Violence is a problem, as previously stated, males tend to be stronger than women. Now, domestic violence comes from an inability to control ones emotions, in particular, anger. When this anger becomes rage, the man can lash out on a wife or daughter. This is domestic violence. But in the other scenario, in which a women attacks the man or son, this is also domestic violence. So when feminists chant and rave about domestic violence, they dont acknowledge the female aggressors.


There are numerous videos of these so called 'womens rights' groups making fun of/disrupting Mens rights groups.
sauce:
YouTube - Feminists Disrupt a Forum About Battered Husbands 1

Which just goes to show the complete ignorance of these groups (notice how im talking about feminists and not females?)
the problem is that their cause is hypocritical. They want their so called 'rights' yet they dont realise that what they are fighting for, women already have. I concur, many of these feminists have been abused in some ways by a man. But the last thing they should have done is formed a group to blame MEN.

What pisses me off is the way they present themselves to other females. Like they are proud strong people fighting for some worthy cause and trying to address problems whilst they point fingers at the wrong people. In the end, it could possibly give them more rights than a man.

Women already have the say in numerous different areas. As stated in earlier posts, rights to abortions, entitlements to property which wasnt theirs from divorce etc. I most certainly hope that this whole issue of rights will be decimated from the face of the earth and hope that everyone realises that LAW applies to human beings as a whole. And that domestic violence, pay rates etc, applies to the individual, reguardless of gender. This is how it is, anyone who believes differently is clearly deluded and/or a feminist.

This entire post hit the metaphorical nail on the head.

Technically, equality already is fully existing and functional, there are just the "individuals" who seem to break the rules of equality, or for example, a man hits his wife. This doesn't mean that women need equality. It just means a man hit his wife. Like you have said, women can be the aggressors too, but this is overlooked. These feminists think women are still treated like they were in the Stone Age, when really, they have never had as much equality as compared to now. They just want something to fight for, and if a man DOES hit his wife, then they assume that ALL men are masoganistic and treat women unfairly, when in truth, it is just certain individuals who don't have principals.

^^^ My take on things anyway

[GIFTSHOPING]

Boys Girl what is the diference after all we are all human creatures

[Selcopa]

I'll start this one off like I start most of my posts off, on the wrong foot.

Do feminists think guys get together and discuss ways to belittle women in the world?

We call it poker night, its alot shorter, easier to say, and its also useful in case there are spies around(we know you spy, how else did you know about us getting together to belittle women?) so we can complain about 'them bitches' and you simply think that our pocket queens couldn't hold up.

Another issue that comes to mind is the world of fight sports. This is something I would very much like to start training for again before I get too old. I could also take a shot at stuntman if given the chance, but I digress. The issue that comes to mind is the market and money surrounding women's MMA. Women in fighting it turns out do not make as much money as do the men in MMA. This is a ruff comparison of around $15,000 for win in women's fighting to an amount of $150,000 for win in men's cage fights.

On the surface it looks 'unfair' but in reality it isn't, this is just supply and demand,
ive seen womens MMA, nobody wants to watch women fight, its boring, you punch slow, you dont kick hard, and quite honestly, it looks like a couple of amateur mens mma fighting, except underwater.
So no, you don't get the $150,000, not until you can take a spin kick from Cung Le in the boob, and get back up and fight( &#x202a;The Spinning Back Kick From Hell&#x202crlm; - YouTube )

This is like comparing the ratings and benefits of miss america, to whatever the male equivalent is, or america's top model and america's zoolander, nobody wants to watch that. How many hooter's restaurants are there? It's all about supply and demand, its not 'gender discrimination)

@AshNStuff Decision making probably isn't your strongest suit. And no its not rape if you get drunk and make some bad choices, you only get the rape title due to an age technicality and is by no means anything near 'real rape' i've had a girlfriend get roofied at a party once, the idea of real rape is quite a bit more terrifying than you think.

To the OP, the short answer to the long post is simply "Men can actually take a joke" of course that will peg me as sexist so I won't say that. But at the end of the day the simple reality is that at the bare bones of society, violence will always determine the pecking order. Men are built stronger, so they will always be higher, and a little bit of anecdotal evidence of women abusing their spouses is nothing compared to the overall dominance of males over females.

[daelythm]

Do men and women have genetic equal opportunity? No, but which sex is more privileged biologically, including psychologicaly?
Do men and women have cultural equal opportunity? They are so obviously different, but how much of it comes from the biological differences? Afterall, things developed naturally enough from the beginning under the singular influence of nature.

I guess my point is that it doesn't do any good trying to elevate one above the other. It's obvious to say that one can't exist without the other, but that's not the point...

Food for thought: the civilization as far as men goes in the USA is growing weaker. Never before has there been such a feminized society. Not ever. USA still leads the world in many ways.
What's good or bad about it? As my first argument suggests, natural law speaks for itself. Maybe women are getting stronger, but if anything in a species changes at all, without evolution present, it's probably a cultural thing.