Paradigm/Crystarium Discussion

[Andromeda]

Well since there has been plenty of talk and even questions or confusions about the combat slash Paradigm slash Crystarium systems, the three are sort of together as a whole while being apart. So let's open the table for everything. Questions about tactics and strategy in combat or suggestions on roles in the Crystarium to get powered up. Whatever you want.

So I guess I'll start out things with people's impressions of the combat. You will need to say have far you are into the game though since for anyone that is deep into the game will know that combat changes quite dramatically the further into the game you get.

And a quick question, in fights, specifically boss fights. Do you find yourself spamming the "X" button even know you know it doesn't do anything? I catch myself doing this all the time even though all actions have been put in and I'm just waiting for the attacks to play out. It is as though I'm trying to make the X button an attack button so I attack faster or something. I have found myself doing this more when I have haste on since the game move really fast once you have haste.

My impressions. In short, I love the combat. It can be quite disappointing at times not being able to control everyone in the party, but considering how fast the battles move you'd never be able to keep up. So it is better that they aren't. Which surprisingly the combat AI is actually pretty good. It surprised me that it reads and follows with the flow the battle. If the situation changes the auto-battle updates and changes to suit the new situation. When you learn weaknesses in the enemy the AI takes advantage of that. It even knows to use Fira and other -ra spells when enemies are staggered because -ra spells greatly increase the stagger meter and that'll mean in the end more damage, since a higher stagger meter will mean the enemy is more open. It took me a while to figure out why it was doing it, thought it was just wasting the slots. Then I realized it and saw that the game understand the system's inner workings better me. ^^;

Speaking of AI, the enemy AI varies quite a bit. But it is surprising how much buffing and debuffing plays in the game. Apart from FFXI, there was little focus on it and you get through the entire without them. But here you won't survive long with doing it. And enemies will even come with their own esuna and remove the debuffs. Sometimes it still feels like they are putting numbers into make up for difficulty that is lacking in the individual monster, but most often the individual is more deadly than any other FF game and when in a group they become even more deadly. It's not uncommon to see them helping each other out.

Also on monsters, it is surprising amount of variety of abilities and techniques. A lot of RPGs monsters are pretty stock and abilities just come down to a numbers game with little to make them unique other than their appearance. However, the monsters here end up being more than just attacks. I've seen wounded flans merge together to become bigger and strong. I've seen killed group chiefs be revived through a minion transform into the new chief. Even little some babies running back to the large adult pleading for help and coming to knock me flat. It is very refreshing to that the monsters are more than just attacks.

As for the Paradigm and Crystarium. It is interesting to see how they use the Crystarium to impose a type of cap on the player. So you can't really over level in the game after a certain point. And for a while I was getting enough CP to fill up all three roles before the end of the chapter. And all I was doing was fighting each monster I saw, not grinding. After a while though it become more about choices like around Chapter 9 and 10 I think, where the points are 4000 a piece and then in Chapter 12 they are 10,000. Not to mention the additional roles they are added around Chapter 10 are even more expensive.

I keep saying that I want two more slots for the Paradigm Shifts. But only have six keeps things really tactic. You have to pick and choose what you want, which early on isn't really a problem. But after a while you have to decide on which strategies are the best for the enemy you are fasting and adjust your Paradigms to meet that need. Usually if I lost to boss I would end up adjusting them to fill into areas I was failing. In the end I found this to be my many six Paradigms and have worked out really well.

Ravager x2 and Commando
Medic, Ravager and Sentinel
Medic, Medic and Sentinel
Commando x3
Ravager, Synergist and Saboteur
Ravager, Commando and Sentinel

This is my normal walking about Gran Pulse and dealing with the early run of the mill monsters. I makes sure to have the Sentinel since a lot of fights are groups and you need a tank to play mob control. After I left Cocoon and made it to Gran Pulse I had Ravager, Synergist and Saboteur default since I was using Sazh and got Haste. So I'd make sure to always haste before fighting. Though I think that I used Commando first, before I refined things to what it is now. I used Commando a lot more in the past and then I realize the advantages of Ravager, but Lightning finally got some great spells.

If I'm just grinding or just earlier in the game I was going Ravager x2 and Commando since that was enough. It eventually wasn't enough and each battle was trying alone.

The final boss I ended up altering my Paradigm since it came down to need to deal with things quickly so that I didn't have to prolong an already very deadly fight. So I replaced all of the Sentinels with Commandos. I made sure I was always dealing damage, which is something the main one doesn't focus on. It has different modes. Ravager x2 and Commando is for keeping and getting an enemy to stagger status and building the meter to about 500% after that I go Commando for huge damage since all of my party I use are strength over magic in terms of numbers. When I'm needing to heal both of my medic Paradigm shift from offensive focus to defense and pulling enemies to a single target while I heal, originally I had Commando in rather than Ravager, but I found Ravager in there is better since the enemies are probably already hit with Commando and thus their stagger meter is not falling fast (which was the original reason I had Commando to keep the stagger from falling while it would not also increase). So having the Ravager in slowly pushes things forward or I go all out healing. Then I have the buff and debuff group and the offensive/defensive with Ravager, Commando and Sentinel out there using for those annoying group monsters where you need to hold them on one while the other two unleash.

My final boss Paradigm looked like this.

Medic, Ravager, Commando - Diversity
Ravager, Synergist, Commando
Ravager x2, Commando - Relentless Assault
Saboteur x2, Ravager - Assassination
Ravager, Commando x2
Sixth was unimportant oddly enough.

As you can it was all offensive, even when healing. It was all about getting the stagger up fast and dealing massive amounts of damage. I defaulted to
Ravager, Synergist, Commando because I needed to get buffs but start up the stagger. When I needed healing it I switched and then when back. After everything was safe it was Relentless Assault and once staggered I switched to Assassination and deprotect and deshell (I think stagger increases the success rate of debuffs) and then it was back to Relentless Assault. Once I hit 999% stagger it was Ravager Commando Commando until stagger emptied or I needed healing. Definitely quite different setup.

So after I ran on for a long time, what's your thoughts and layouts.

[DragonHeart]

I spam the X button a lot too. Weird. I have to consciously stop myself from doing it and sometimes I still do anyways heh.

I'm guessing you keep your characters specialized with the three roles they start with in the Crystarium? That's what I've been doing. It may cost a lot more CP but the boosts are big enough higher up to be worth it and as I've found the hard way, if you aren't up to date on your abilities you will get murdered. I keep everyone focused (hah) on their three roles since it's easy, even when I don't use characters in my party as interchangeably as I probably should. Habit, more than anything.

As for my setups, I've been using mostly:

Commando, Ravager, Ravager
Sentinel, Commando/Ravager, Medic
Sentinel, Medic, Medic
Sentinel, Saboteur, Medic
Commando, Ravager, Medic

The last slot changes a lot as I refine tactics depending on what I'm doing, but the above are my staples right now. Yes, I really need to be using a Synergist. Yes I am stubborn. XD I probably will once I get back to the boss I've been stuck on.

~DragonHeart~

[Andromeda]

Yeah, definitely having a Synergist in the group is important for later fights. Especially once Sazh learns Haste it becomes almost invaluable. It was one of the reasons I pulled out Hope and replaced him with Sazh late into Pulse. I needed the haste to get through battles a little more smoothly.

But yeah I focused on the three primary roles for the characters as well, apart from Sazh. He had a little in medic, enough to give him Cure and that was it. Though I'm considering going for Cura at this point. But so far Lightning has Cura and when I need I have Vanille with Curaja and Curasa to fix things up really fast.

Strangely enough Vanille and Lightning are interchangeable for me. Seems strange, but losing the Commando isn't a big deal and Vanille has a couple Saboteur abilities that Fang doesn't which makes her really good. Though the problem is that Hope has a few Synergist abilities that Sazh doesn't specifically Veil.

[GranFran]

I spam the X button a lot too. Weird. I have to consciously stop myself from doing it and sometimes I still do anyways heh.

I'm guessing you keep your characters specialized with the three roles they start with in the Crystarium? That's what I've been doing. It may cost a lot more CP but the boosts are big enough higher up to be worth it and as I've found the hard way, if you aren't up to date on your abilities you will get murdered. I keep everyone focused (hah) on their three roles since it's easy, even when I don't use characters in my party as interchangeably as I probably should. Habit, more than anything.

As for my setups, I've been using mostly:

Commando, Ravager, Ravager
Sentinel, Commando/Ravager, Medic
Sentinel, Medic, Medic
Sentinel, Saboteur, Medic
Commando, Ravager, Medic

The last slot changes a lot as I refine tactics depending on what I'm doing, but the above are my staples right now. Yes, I really need to be using a Synergist. Yes I am stubborn. XD I probably will once I get back to the boss I've been stuck on.

~DragonHeart~

Oh, that finger-mashing on the X button.. I don't get it, why do we do it, it's not necessary but I find myself literally working up a sweat in the heat of battle just mashing that damn thing as hard as I can..

My poor hand hurts so bad after a major battle I have to stop and massage it.. It's amazing how I can't get myself to stop doing this..

[DragonHeart]

I see. I haven't used Synergist much but I'm thinking I really need one for this stupid boss I'm stuck on, so...yeah. I may switch Vanille out for Hope, see how well that works. Lightning finally got Cura so healing may not be as dicey against AoE spam. Medic is her third role, for me. Should probably be second cause aside from using Commando for keeping chains, it doesn't seem to do as much on the damage front unless the enemy is Staggered. Decisions, decisions.

I do admit part of the problem is that sometimes I don't feel like fighting everything so I'll start dodging mobs. Unless it's physically standing in my way I can edge around just about anything. I was a bit behind, I guess. I've almost got everyone to current max Crystarium level on all three of their default roles now, though.

~DragonHeart~

[Tiffany]

I find that I dislike not being able to control the the other players in my team. Some of them have nifty abilites and I don't want to wait for them to use what I want them to (say, I don't want Protect, I want Shell... but I have to wait for Protect to be cast first THEN shell) unless there's a way to change it, that I've missed?

I'm still basically playing the two separate storylines so I haven't had much time to really play around with having 3 people for the Paradigm Shifts.

So far, if I have a saboteur then I'll always switch to that first off, so Tide Turner (as its' been Vanille and Sazh for the time being) I also find it interesting that even people in the same class don't exactly have the same abilities. Like Fang and Snow, her Sentinel is different.

I tend to use Slash and Burn mainly (Commando/Ravager), with War and Peace (Commando/Medic) as my back up. Tide Turner if its available.

When I (FINALLY) had 3 people in my party I found the combo of Commando/Ravager/Medic to be very helpful. That was only one battle though.

I still love the idea of it though, makes it so much more tactical.

[Andromeda]

Actually, it is all very situational for what happens with Protect and Shell. The AI will actually switch up order if it notices that Shell is needed over Protect first. I've actually see it happen with me a few times. Which it was doing protect first, a heavy spell hit and then it started casting Shell. It all depends on how much knowledge you have the enemy. If you know the enemy the AI will make choices basic on what it knows about the enemy. Because sometimes it will prioritize Protect and Shell first over Faith and Bravery and others not. It is a surprisingly flexible and smart AI, though I do agree with you that it still does things you don't want it to do at times. But overall it works pretty well.

[Belugn]

Haha yes I agree about the uneccessary mashing of the X button. But then again I have a tendency to always wear out the x buttons in my controllers, so perhaps I just realized something I've been doing over quite some time.

I've pretty much stated everything I have to say about the paradigm system and about the crystarium, most things bad, I'm afraid. I do however have to say that I still think they're onto something. As you say, the battles are so fast that if you had to control all of your characters, you just wouldn't make it. I still think it's bad that so many battle systems are as automized as they are today.

Something I've noticed is that if you're REALLY REALLY lucky, sometimes when executing an attack, you jump over an enemy's, let's say for instance, gunfire. Jumping OVER it and therefor AVOIDING it. Felt really good, with some serious practise and feel you might be able to time it just right, I really don't know how much luck-only it is. And stagger -> launch is just mmm. Nothing as satisfying as seeing your previous 230 damage attacks suddenly deal around 4-5000 if not even nearly 9999. I can't wait until you deal more than that, especially in boss battles where they have tons and tons of hp.

Otherwise I'm not very impressed. There is something I'm really missing with the system however. When you find yourself gaining no score after a long tedious bossfight, and you KNOW you've maxed out all your characters crystariums, the only thing left should be that your strategy sucked. Then again, with the few roles available, I still can't think of much that could have been done differently. (I know that just a few roles still makes for a lot of different paradigm combinations, but I've always felt that I've been doing what's best.)

[Andromeda]

I know exactly what you mean about fights where you think you're doing awesome or at least the best you can and then the battle ends. The game then slaps you down a says it was mediocre and you stare back asking "What was I doing wrong and how am I supposed to do better?" Yeah, its a little puzzling, but I guess it just means that there are some tricks that we are missing. Perhaps with having completed the game and fully gaining a grasp of the system I might be able to replay the game and get better scores. I don't know if that is true or not, but it is pretty clear that there must be something we're missing.

Some of the fights just some unreasonable for the time that they say, but then again I guess if you know exactly what you have to do it should go pretty smoothly. I think most of the fights are not meant to last longer than like a minute or two and bosses no longer than five minutes. Which probably comes from people getting really annoyed at hour long bosses and monsters from other games. ^^;

And there is not actually a 9999 damage cap. The cap is 99,999. So you should not be stopping at 9999 as far as I know, unless the game as a really early level cap that invisibly disappears. But there is definitely a great sense of joy when you launch the enemy in the air and just unleash everything on it for massive damage. I got the most joy working out the timing so that I could just juggle the enemy in the air without letting it touch the ground.

And yeah, there are times when you jump or move and end up evading an attack. That is something that I actually do specifically with adamantoise, because they have an attack that only hits you when you're standing on the ground. So if you're airborne then you won't get hit. The Adamantoise are the most annoying monster in the game, apart from the Gigcactaur with his 10,000 needles. ><

[Che]

I know exactly what you mean about fights where you think you're doing awesome or at least the best you can and then the battle ends. The game then slaps you down a says it was mediocre and you stare back asking "What was I doing wrong and how am I supposed to do better?" Yeah, its a little puzzling, but I guess it just means that there are some tricks that we are missing. Perhaps with having completed the game and fully gaining a grasp of the system I might be able to replay the game and get better scores. I don't know if that is true or not, but it is pretty clear that there must be something we're missing.

Some of the fights just some unreasonable for the time that they say, but then again I guess if you know exactly what you have to do it should go pretty smoothly. I think most of the fights are not meant to last longer than like a minute or two and bosses no longer than five minutes. Which probably comes from people getting really annoyed at hour long bosses and monsters from other games. ^^;

And there is not actually a 9999 damage cap. The cap is 99,999. So you should not be stopping at 9999 as far as I know, unless the game as a really early level cap that invisibly disappears. But there is definitely a great sense of joy when you launch the enemy in the air and just unleash everything on it for massive damage. I got the most joy working out the timing so that I could just juggle the enemy in the air without letting it touch the ground.

And yeah, there are times when you jump or move and end up evading an attack. That is something that I actually do specifically with adamantoise, because they have an attack that only hits you when you're standing on the ground. So if you're airborne then you won't get hit. The Adamantoise are the most annoying monster in the game, apart from the Gigcactaur with his 10,000 needles. ><

Spoiler: You can even break that cap by equipping the Genji Gloves, which come from a mission.

[theblackmonster]

can we throw in the "upgrade" system also?

i really like this feature and the improvements it gives your weapons and accessories

[DragonHeart]

I think the most annoying thing for me was fighting one of the final bosses, was doing pretty kickass, had it to half health and...it landed death on my lead character. Gah! I wish there was a grace period before the game over on stuff like that, like your medic has ten seconds to Raise you or something. Aside from that I've really been having fun with the battle system lately. Can't wait to see what some of these harder hunts are going to be like, now that I've completed the game.

I am dreading how long it'll take to max everyone out in the Crystarium, though. >.<

~DragonHeart~

[Andromeda]

Yeah, I know what you're talking about Dragonheart. I wish that there was something about not targeting the player or providing some sort of measure to make it less of a game over or something. Because it is really annoying when the player character gets one shot'd or a cheap shot that ends the game after you've been trying for like five minutes or something.

Spoiler: You're talking about the second form for the final bosses when you're talking about death. Now you know why I was trying that boss for so long. >< I really hated the progress made and then just to be cheap shot with a lucky death that is fatal. If you can believe it, the last part of the second form is actually easier to deal with than the rest of that the fight, just requires a heavy amount of healing.

I'm dreading maxing out the Crystarium as well. I'm trying to get the item from Mission 55 that give you double CP since it'll make my life a lot easier. Unfortunately, 55 is Gigcactaur and 10,000 needles is pretty evil.

And sure you can talk about the upgrading system if you want.

[Belugn]

@Andromeda: THERE'S a 99.999 CAP?! Wow ok now I'm pretty pumped up actually. ...and sort of fearing the HP bars of bosses yet to come, but oh well.

And yes there is SOMETHING. I'm not going to make any spoilers, but there is a boss battle where you only control Sazh and Vanille. It was the most tedious and the longest boss battle so far. That we had to redo the same process three times didn't make it any better at all. But in the end we managed, and we got the lowest score possible; obviously, the battle taking us probably 30 minutes afterall. With just two characters, who both posess around three different roles each, it really felt like there WASN'T much else to do. Perhaps better weapons? I'm not so sure.
I just realized something else, how incredibly little healing items etc there is in this game. With the medic it isn't really necessary, when it's actually doing it's job, but it just hit me.

I am curious about digging deeper into the upgrade system. Though it feels like you really should get more spoils or at least Gil to make it work more flowingly. We rarely have any loot not to mention NOT ANY GIL AT ALL almost, to use.

And I'm starting to feel really creepy using "us" and "we" all the time, so I guess I should mention I'm playing this game together with someone. I don't have a PS3 of my own, so I'm leeching of my boyfriend's, hehe.

[Andromeda]

Well choice in the Crystarium does not really present itself until you're in Chapter 9 or 10, because before then you're getting more than enough CP to fill them to the end before the chapter completes. Afterward, it is up to you decide where you want to put your points. Do you want to get a Commando skill or that Firaga in Ravager. The choices are not so much about the individual role, but the whole system and where you want to define your character. The choices you do make from there can have serious impacts on battles. Such as when I was dealing with a boss that was taking too long. I picked up deprotect and deshell from the Saboteur group which I had been largely ignoring in favor of offense or defense. Suddenly having those two abilities that boss wasn't so much trouble. So there are choices in the Crystarium, but it is more about the choices of the roles you emphasis rather than the choices you make within the individual roles themselves.

And the cap on characters is 99,999 apart from something else that apparently allows you to go beyond. But if you note there is a trophy that is awarded when you break 100,000 with a single hit. The easiest way apparently is using the summons which apparently have no such limit or at least I think the limit is 999,999. Since I read somewhere that Fang can do 999,999 with Highwind and Genji Gloves. Imagine doing a million damage in a single hit. ^^; There's something to make you feel like you're master of everything.

[Ernest]

I think it's a great system. It has its flaws, and it can get a bit dry after they pit you against High-HP regular enemies over and over. But it's a really good system.

One way I keep it fresh is by switching my party around, even when its tactically inappropriate.

My favourite paradigms are..

Sentinel, Ravager, Commando
Sentinel, Medic, Medic
Sentinel, Medic, Synergist
Synergist, Medic, Commando

I favour defensive strategies which can consume time, but I do not **** around once I get the Stagger going. I go for broke.

The Crystarium, I have decided, is the games biggest failure. It is way too linear, a complete hassel to do, and robs you of any choice. I'd much rather it was not a player-driven experience system, like used in the first 9 games.

[Belugn]

It's so insane. So much damage in a FF game, that's really rad. Disgaea rad.

It seems the people's opinion is that the game and it's system gets better the longer into the game you get, I'm glad it's like that, rather than the other way around. I'll try to keep my sceptical dislike on hold for a while more. Won't be able to play until weekends though, since it's the only time my boy's got off doing his millitary service, or whatever they're pretending it to be here in Sweden.

I'm really curious about what type of missions it is that you can do, later on. I really have no clue. : >

[Wizard]

-Beginning of chapter 10- Possible Spoilers

Builds:
Lightning: Commando primary previously, now raising Ravager a bit and having Medic as back-up

Hope: Ravager Primary, Medic Secondary Synergist back-up because I raised Synergist up quite a bit in hopes of more spells, but no such luck

Vanille: Medic Primary, Ravager Secondary and Saboteur back-up because a lack of spells

It might be worth noting that an analysis I have seen says that Vanille is best at Saboteur then Medic, Hope is a better Medic and then Ravager, then Synergist, and Lightning is the best ravager. Lightning is a fairly average commando.

Now that the game has started to open up, I drift towards a party that is based on magic. I think that my final party has ended up Lightning, Hope, and Vanille with the party leader switching off. I don't really like the Sentinel role, it seems to waste too much time and frequently lowers my score when I use it. I realize that I probably am supposed to work towards break status and then shift, but it just feels so slow. Thus, I use a medic or two medics when I want to be defensive. Plus, it heals over the damage that I would have needed to shift towards anyways if I used a Sentinel. I'm kind of disappointed in Hope as a Synergist when looking at all of the neat stuff Sazh has though, but I personally prefer Hope overall. I'm kind of hoping that Vanille gets a few more debuffs too, but I think she's an okay saboteur. The reason I don't use her that often is that I sometimes don't notice that Vanille doesn't do anything if she's left on Saboteur for too long because she doesn't have that many spells.

Paradigm Shifts (off the top of my head): Lightning Hope Vanille
1. Commando Ravager Ravager
2. Commando Ravager Medic
3. Ravager Ravager Ravager
4. Commando Medic Medic
5. Ravager Synergist Saboteur
6. Medic Medic Medic

The fifth and sixth paradigms usually can be changed as I don't use them that often. I usually start out with a build-up of chain guage using two ravagers with commando to slow the descent, and then switch to all ravagers (Tri-Disaster) to get the last bit of chain guage. Then I switch to my first paradigm so that Lightning can (usually) launch the enemy into the air with attack or just do damage dealing while the two ravagers deal damage. Another advantage to Commandos are that their Attack can sometimes stun difficult enemies, such as those huntresses on the airship that cast four buffs on themselves (including haste!).If there is a problem, I'll put Vanille as a Medic to heal everyone.

[DragonHeart]

Hmm, hopefully you don't find out the hard way like I did but Haste rapidly becomes a necessity at that late stage of the story. Hope learns it way late so Sazh ended up in my party a lot toward the end. It took me a long time to give up my habit of using only my favorite characters in battle and once I did the game got easier. Not easy by any stretch, but at least the normal monsters weren't wiping the floor with my party anymore lol.

It's pretty neat seeing how different everyone's strategies can be. I've always preferred brute strength so of course Fang is the mainstay of my team. She's got Sentinel and Commando mastered, working on Saboteur. Vanille is my Medic/Ravager and occasionally Saboteur. My third party member rotates based on the situation, but usually I've got Lightning primarily as Commando/Ravager and backup Medic. I'm not using Sazh or Hope as Synergist right now because I don't need to, only grinding CP. When I get back to the hunts I'll probably have Sazh back in since he has better Synergist abilities, imo.

~DragonHeart~

[Sean]

So, I'll read the thread in a moment, but I'm typing this while it's fresh in my head.


My current plan is to go Lightning, Vanille, Sazh as my main 3, swapping in maybe Snow for tough spots for his enormous HP pool and sentinel role.

My paradigms are set up for com/rav/rav for chain building, rav/rav/rav for fast chain building (switching back to com/rav/rav to keep up the attacking quickly) a com/medic/syn for keeping chains alive while buffing and taking care of the heals, a com/medic/rav for chaining up while getting heals, and a medic/sab/syn for Light tossing out heals while I get debuffs and buffs rolling out on some tougher fights, and finally a medic/medic/syn for "OMG EVERYONE'S DYING" moments.

I'm assuming later on Sazh can learn protect, or so I'd hope. It would suck to see him limited by his form of syn. I really, REALLY cannot stand the character of Hope. He's annoying as piss.

The sent role should've been filled out a bit better I think, a lot of times you don't have enough time to paradigm shift, provoke, then guard a huge attack (like that god damn gat gun in Polumpolum Snow/Hope area)


Apparently dungeoning my ass off in WoW has really helped me develop the mindset for this game. I do really well with my custom paradigms, and I got the gist of the combat system down pretty fast. I'm a firm believer in buffing/debuffing early (Woo for playing RDM all the time in XI! ) and then going to town.

Edit: On the shell over protect thing, I've noticed Hope will cast Shell first if I've libra/fought the mob enough times to have all the ??? filled in and one says "Delivers devastating magic attacks" IF that's the mob my main person is attacking.

[Djinn]

The sent role should've been filled out a bit better I think, a lot of times you don't have enough time to paradigm shift, provoke, then guard a huge attack (like that god damn gat gun in Polumpolum Snow/Hope area)

All that WoWing obviously didn't make you good enough, I manage to dodge that attack with guard every time it happen XD.

My characters paradigms aren't really set up properly at the moment, i'm just waiting to see what the final stages give before i decide on parties. However i'm running with all the females at the moment, Fang is my commando, then 2x ravager in Lighting and Vanille. Normally switch up vanille to healer if i need to and lightning can cover extra heals aswell. Then i have 2x Com (Lightning, Fang) and Ravager for mobs that are weak to physical or have loads of magic resistance. Thats about the extent of my paradigms, if i'm coming up against a boss i'll switch Sazh in for Fang to haste-bot for me XD.

Not really had any problems with bosses yet, only at the point when you unlock all the cryst grids for everyone. Pretty much walked all over every boss anyway.

[Sean]

After hitting Gran Pulse all I could do for hours was play with Paradigms and party configurations, and NOTHING really worked well for me.

Honestly, the difficulty of the "random" encounters in Gran Pulse have now completely turned me off to the game. It's not so much that they're HARD, it's that they have ridiculous amounts of health and deal insane amounts of damage VERY quickly with abilities that insta-gib even through guard. I spend all my downtime between huge attacks healing up, then by the time I can go com/rav/rav again or even just com/rav/medic they drop another huge bomb on me.

There's these big flying things that are WTF difficult, especially if they have adds. I try to combat the huge packs of caster gremlins with a com/sen/sab combo with fang throwing out whatever the AoE silence is called but it doesn't stick nearly long enough if it even sticks at all. Lightning is a terrible medic for me at the moment until she finally gets cura, which is like..... 60K CP away, and only getting 1K CP or less a fight... ugh. Most of the time she's the only medic I can have in the group, though, since she's com/rav/medic at level 3 and all in the 4-6K stages of the Crystarium (as is everyone else for the 3 roles they came with) and I kinda have it ingrained to just have her there.

The sent role is really shining now, though, I take back what I said about it earlier, 90% of these fights wouldn't be winnable without having my med/sen/sab or med/sen/syn paradigms.

It's an extremely frustrating part of the game. Up to this point I just kept playing waiting for the annoying story parts of 2 people to end, and I figured the game would really open up when I hit Gran Pulse. It has, there's more to do and more to customize, but I CANNOT stand the random encounters and grinding CP is a freaking drag.


The boss fight against

Spoiler: Cid Raines

really threw me for a loop during phase 2, it took me a good 4-5 tries, and I had a lockup four times into loading Gran Pulse, so I had to redo

Spoiler: Fang's Eidolon battle

Spoiler: Hope's Eidolon is the first one I've managed to get in my first try, that made me pretty happy.

[Andromeda]

When you first arrive in Gran Pulse most of the things in the big open area you won't be able to fight period. It is best not to even try. They are meant for end game and sort of show you that there's always someone bigger and badder than you out there, I think. ^^; It is also sort of humbling, though some of the boss fights are pretty humbling too. But when normal monsters and totally destroy you like a boss you realize you're not as awesome as you thought you were. Still Gran Pulse is pretty cool.

Most of the things you can fight are in the missions and in the side areas off the main hub map. You will want to be on Stage 9 of the Crystarium before attempting any of the main hub map monsters. The small guys like the hounds, flans, goblins and where shaman bird midgets are good kills, but everything else will totally wipe you. If you really want to get one-shot'd really good go poke one of those gigantic Admantoise that are armored up and everything. ^^

And I've been learning some new things about the Combat system and Crystarium. I've been trying to figure out what the point of the role levels are. I knew there was one, but there was nothing visible telling you. It is all about bonus that they provide. The higher the level the bigger bonus you get, so Commandos get an attack bonus, the higher level gives a large bonus. Also as I think some figure out, the more Commandos out there the more bonuses you get, because each Commando provides a small bonus to the other party members. Same with all of the roles.

Also when you switch paradigms, every other turn you will be fully restored your action meter. So if you shift attack wait for it to fill attack again and shift during the last attack in the cycle you'll be fully restored with the action meter on the new shift you selected. So it is fast way to get in a lot of attacks if you need to really lay into an enemy while they're staggered or something.

[DragonHeart]

Hmm...I know I had trouble when I first got there too, but not that much.

Lightning is really not a good Medic for this part of the game, she just doesn't have the healing ability to deal with things like huge AoE. Try switching either her or your other non-Fang member out for Vanille, she has better cure spells.

A lot of the enemies in Gran Pulse are pretty fast too, have you been using a Synergist at all? Sazh will really help you out here if he's got Haste. Sab/Syn/Med is a pretty mean combo, though if you're still getting killed perhaps stick with Sen/Syn/Med.

Also try Com/Com/Rav (or Com/Com/Med) if you haven't already. If you've got a couple of fast enemies to deal with it can be more useful than a Sentinel cause the Commandos can keep mobs from attacking and if they're far enough away, the AoE will only hit them and not the entire party each time. It's tough because of the randomness of the party spacing but if you can break up the AoE and keep it from hitting everyone it's a lot easier to deal with.

~DragonHeart~

[Sean]

Well, the game presented me with the option of Marks, so I jumped on them. In the process, I have to kill an awful lot of normal mobs, and I can't ignore a treasure when I see it, so again, more mobs to kill...

The dogs are fine, and offer a good amount of CP, but the penguin gremlins in huge packs are insanely hard when they start chaining me with AoEs and constantly knocking my group back, and holy god if they summon a Behemoth it's game over. The big birds are also a super huge pita, as are the giant flora-flan things.... actually just everything is a super pita.

I liked having Sazh around for Haste, but I needed a sent, I like Vanille around for her improved healing (and I've upgraded some wand I found for her that gives her a + to cure) and hope's HP is too low for him to really matter.... but I needed fog and/or slow. I can't really have it all. =\ I REALLY wish I could have a 4th person in my party.

I was using Light, Sazh, Vanille, but I really needed a sentinel, and I really needed the aoe fog, so I swapped Sazh and Vanille out for Snow and Fang.

I guess I should just ignore the Marks for now and come back. *shrug*

And yeah, I figured the big giant thingies would be tough, I got totally flattened hahaha.

[Andromeda]

I think you can do the first like 10 marks or so, they are all rank D missions. So they should be the easiest of them to do. I ended up marching on through so I don't know how hard they are at that point. I know that Dragonheart said she did some of the marks while she was there. So it should be possible, but I'd definitely stop and wait on any rank C missions.

But definitely Sazh's haste is invaluable at that point. And sadly Hope is pretty much difficult to use because he is always in need of being protect from damage with how little HP he has. It is pretty funny how RPGs are usually pretty stereotypical in giving male characters more HP and less MP while females are the other way around. It's interesting seeing Hope on the bottom of the HP ranking. I think Vanille even has more HP than him. I have to attribute this to him being a teenager and with zero combat experience since everyone else is either an adult or done some amount of fighting to be tougher.

[Andromeda]

Alright, it's been a while and so I'm bring this thread back to the front for a couple of reasons. There's a lot of good information in there for one, but also because I was bored and did some work on the Crystarium to figure some things out and came out with some interesting results.

Anyway, I only took a look at Lightning's Crystarium for this since it would have meant another 5 hours to go through the other characters for this, but seeing out in the end all of the characters were only off by like no more 200k CP in the end (Lightning falls in the middle) she worked out well for the test.

So for those wondering how much it is going to take to fully level up all of your Crystariums here are the numbers on Lightning. As I said Lightning was about the middle of the road, so everyone else should fall in about around here with no more than 200k variance. I'll know more after I finish all of them.

Lightning
Total CP Required - 11,089,410
Command CP - 1,201,860
Ravager CP - 1,347,040
Sentinel CP - 2,337,000
Saboteur CP - 2,424,000
Synergist CP - 2,451,000
Medic CP - 1,328,510

Lightning HP Stats
Total HP - 19755
Commando HP - 5230
Ravager HP - 4705
Sentinel HP - 1360
Saboteur HP - 1325
Synergist HP - 1290
Medic HP - 5845

Lightning Strength Stats
Total STR - 1685
Commando STR - 571
Ravager STR - 455
Sentinel STR - 96
Saboteur STR - 87
Synergist STR - 87
Medic STR - 389

Lightning Magic Stats
Total MAG - 1685
Commando MAG - 307
Ravager MAG - 574
Sentinel MAG - 88
Saboteur MAG - 91
Synergist MAG - 91
Medic MAG - 534

Some initial remarks from the numbers can be seen pretty clearly. Commando is the easiest to complete overall while Synergist is the hardest, but if you're leveling evenly on the 3 mains. You will probably not notice a great difference. The biggest factors come into the number of abilities since they tend to cost more so it makes sense that Ravager would be more than Commando.

Though that said, I didn't realize and I suspect that may might not as well, but Medic only has 8 Stages and not 10 Stages like the rest. This actually means that Medic starts at an initially higher cost values because you're actually starting at the comparative Stage 3. It should also be noted that in general Medic stat bumps are greater per orb than any others, probably due to the lack of two stages. So if you want the most for your CP, Medic is actually the best one to complete first since the HP bumps are actually 275 and not 250 in Stage 10 like it is for the other two mains. It also means that Medic has the most HP gained.

Other interesting things to note that all of the extra 3 roles were pretty much identical in stat bumps and stage setup. All that really changed from Stage 1 Sentinel to Stage 1 Saboteur was the placement of the stats bumps, it was still pretty much the same with Abilities being the only thing that changes things and removes or adds in stat orbs. So in general all three extra roles will grant just about the same amount of stat bumps within a very small degree of plus/minus versus each other so when doing post-game leveling. The decision you should make on those is which roles do you need access to first in order to make your life easier.

Stage 10 orbs are exactly (apart from Medic's HP bumps) all the same for value and placement for the main and extra roles the only different is abilities.

If you're really interested in my work I have it all available in an excel spreadsheet if you want to plan out level or something. If you want to see it ask me about it.

[Dodie16]

Bumping this, because I wouldn't mind a little advice on where to take my characters next in the Crystarium, and this seemed like an alright place to ask instead of just creating a new thread on the subject.

Okay, so I haven't beaten the game yet, but I have my main 3 characters main roles completed (or at least as far as they'll go at the moment): Fang - Sen, Com, and Sab; Hope - Med, Syn, Rav; Lightning - Com, Rav, Med

So my questions are:

1.) Should I just complete the game to open up the last level of my character's Crystarium or should I go ahead and start on other roles before I beat the game?

2.) If I start on the other roles first, which roles are best to start working on with Fang, Hope, and Lightning?

Thanks to whoever has any input!

[Andromeda]

The gains you'll get from the other 3 crystarium roles is not really that significant when compared to what you're get in the final stage. The only reason to get the roles now is if you are need a specific role in your battles. Right now it looks like you have everything you'll need, just not a lot of them. You have two Com, two Rav, two Med and then one of everything else. Which is fine, the problem will be that things that help is having another Sab or Syn, but the effort to get that is going to be quite the drain on resources. In the end you'd be better off just switching in different character to get the extra if you want them.

My advice is hold off on them and wait until you beat the game. If you need something else just move the party members around until you meet the needs of your desire.

You can look at my previous post to get an idea of the requirements that non-main roles will have on you versus the yields you get from them. There are certainly some good abilities, but they are buried deep down.

[Rocky]

Bumping this, because I wouldn't mind a little advice on where to take my characters next in the Crystarium, and this seemed like an alright place to ask instead of just creating a new thread on the subject.

Okay, so I haven't beaten the game yet, but I have my main 3 characters main roles completed (or at least as far as they'll go at the moment): Fang - Sen, Com, and Sab; Hope - Med, Syn, Rav; Lightning - Com, Rav, Med

So my questions are:

1.) Should I just complete the game to open up the last level of my character's Crystarium or should I go ahead and start on other roles before I beat the game?

2.) If I start on the other roles first, which roles are best to start working on with Fang, Hope, and Lightning?

Thanks to whoever has any input!

I don't know how much merit you put into this, but if you want to 5 star most of your battles then it's better to develop the secondary roles for your characters. This is what I did:

My main team throughout the game was Lightning/Fang/Sazh because I liked playing early game aggressive-minded paradigm decks like Cerberus, Relentless Assault, etc. I kept up with the three main roles for each of them and it served me well, but once you get to chapter 13 you'll notice that battles are still getting tougher even with the main roles for all three characters are maxed out; which in turn is due to the paradigm decks and what I had available for each character. I wanted Lightning to get a leg up on the tougher marks that were in the post gameplay, so I held off spending her extra CP. With Sazh, I ended up maxing out his Medic role so I could get the Curasa ability, which was one of the weak points for my team. Having a solo Lightning heal with cure/cura sucks in the later chapters I learned, regardless of the Magic stat lol. Anyways this allowed me to get the Combat Clinic role which cut down the healing time in battle which allowed me to keep chains, etc. Now with Fang, the beauty with her is she really can go into any secondary role in a pinch, but I ended up maxing out her Ravager role so I could make a Tri-disaster deck. This helped me whoop the chain guage out in seconds rather than minutes and drastically cut down the time I needed to grind.

I guess it kinda depends on what you have in mind for your team at that point, but if you want you can make a RAV Fang and try out a Tri-disaster combo if you want to quicken the chaining ordeal. Also, putting Lightning into a SYN/SAB role would help with buff/debuff phase of battle, respectively. It's all up to how you want to play I guess.