How does 13 Compare?

[Locke4God]

I have yet to play 13 at all, but have enjoyed the entire series,


I just would like to know, how does 13 fit in. How does it compare to 12? What are the stronger points of the game?

I'd really like to know what you think of specific aspects. How does the level up system rank within the series? How do the overall characters compare and rank within the series. The story. etc.

I know that the linear nature has been a problem for some of you. Is it that big of a deal? The games, some of them seem to be trending toward a more linear approach.

Any other thoughts you have are great. Look forward to hearing about it.

[smurphy]

I think that at first, you may enjoy the streamlined, linear gameplay compared to the open world FF XII. But after the 30 or so hours of nonstop linearity, trust me, it starts to grate.

The paradigm system works really well, and the difficulty curve is pretty even for newcomers. But some of the bosses. especially the eidolons, are unfairly hard and require a few attempts before successful completion. And the paradigm system takes away a degree of control which I find is a negative.

Story wise, the plot is good(I wont give too much away) but what is irritating is that the majority of the playable characters are really angsty for the first thirty or so hours, and it makes it hard to empathise with them.

If you can find this game for cheap though, it would definitely be worth it. I also noted that because of the linearity it was also harder to soak up the atmosphere of the game. Though I suppose different individuals might have different experiences.

[Locke4God]

Yeah I tend to like the more spread out games, however I thought 10 worked extremely well as a linear game. It just made sense within the context of the story and so it was easy to buy in. 9 for me, was actually very linear when you think about it, and that didn't work for me because I kept wanting to go and explore and until disk 3 there wasn't really much of an opportunity to do so. So that kind of game it didn't work for me, but does the linearity make sense within the context of the game? I mean for 13?

[Zargabaath]

Compared to FFXII, Final Fantasy XIII is very restrictive. The party cannot be chose until Chapter 9. The Crystarium Grid is a less customizable than the License board; though the Crystarium Grid is truly a less customizable version of the Sphere Grid. There are a lot more cut-scenes dispersed throughout the game than Final Fantasy XII. The writing is poorer in FFXIII. Save for one character usually, Vanille, the voice-acting is pretty good.

Stronger points of the game would be the combat though I did find a few problems with the AI. I would say the characters of Lightning, Sazh, & Fang are strong points. I would add difficulty but some people may find it too hard; I was somewhat expecting that the game would be difficult for a majority of the game from like Chapters 3 or 4 onward. The difficulty didn't spike till Chapter 10 maybe 9.

Well there are no levels but as I said the Crystarium is a less customizable Sphere Grid which adds to the overall restrictiveness of the game. If it were more customizable then it would have been better, but as is you pick a Paradigm you want to increase in "level" and follow the course with a few divergent paths that get longer deeper into the Crystarium. The first divergent paths are 1-3 nodes off the main path, plus every node the player passes will be activated, unlike the Sphere Grid which the player had the option to unlock the nodes stat increase/ability.

In the main cast there may be 2-3 characters that you may not like. The other three are solid. But overall with poor writing, story-telling, & direction the characters suffer, as does the story big time but more on that later. The important NPCs, like the villains or allies get very little screen time that is a disservice.

As for the story it should have been worked on more. There are plenty of instances that are not explained, some with not bit of fashion at all. The story starts off well in Chapter 1, 2, & 3. But after that the plot slows to a halt and doesn't really pick up till Chapter 9. The reason for Chapter 11 was pretty weak and accomplished nothing. With nary any clue as to why to pursue their goals the party just goes about trying to find something. You may not like the ending because of what happens and because of what is not explained.

I feel that Motomu Toriyama should have included a lot more information into the game especially of the official mythology that was released along side the announcement of Final Fantasy XIII-2. Either they knew going in that there would be a sequel or because of the time constraints they released the game early and decided to do a sequel to tie up loose ends. Either way the direction/development of this game was poor to say the least. I cannot explain what information should have been included since it would ruin the game.

The premise of the world is very interesting, made more so by the official mythology. The execution was quite bad making this one of my least favorite, if not least favorite story in all Final Fantasy.

To elaborate on its restrictivness: as said the party cannot be chosen till late chapter 9. There are a few divergent paths along the way but they are quite short. There is no backtracking till the later chapters or the last chapter. The Crystarium Grid is a restricted Sphere Grid. The same enemies will be in the same place every playthrough.

It somewhat makes sense in the context of the story for it too be linear yet at the same time I felt that the game failed to truly express the cause. The cause was there but poorly conveyed. I'll add this along here as well. You may have heard that there are "no towns" or at least towns in a very limited scope. This is true. Because of the context of their story it would make sense for this diminished role, yet at the same time the story could have went differently, adding more plot, that there would have been more towns. At this time I cannot get into specifics.

I felt the Equipment Upgrade system and shops have poor implementation, though good concept. It takes a lot to level up the equipment which it takes components dropped from enemies which are not that common till certain accessories are gained late in the game. These components could be bought at the shops yet money is even more scarce than in Final Fantasy XII. Making money in Final Fantasy XIII makes Final Fantasy XII's look easy and brisk. With that it is not wise to buy new weapons at least or accessories since most are found lying around or in hunts. Another thing is, while in Final Fantasy XII equipment for outweighed levels, in Final Fantasy XIII the player does not need to level their equipment or change the initial weapon to beat the game.

That's what I got for now.

[Dan558]

I just would like to know, how does 13 fit in. How does it compare to 12? What are the stronger points of the game?

Compared to 12 it's a much more vibrant and active game. The forced linearity keeps your characters running, which makes sense.

I'd really like to know what you think of specific aspects. How does the level up system rank within the series?

It's basically exactly the same as FFX's sphere grid. People overestimate the freedom given with the sphere grid, they seem to think it allows any character to grow into any role instantly or at least quickly, but it's not so true. FFX's roles may be more distinctive because there are a lot more action abilities (i.e. Steal, Power break, flee etc.) but gaining those abilities on characters not in line for those has about the same restrictions. Originally each character has a choice of upgrading in 3 classes as desired and later they can choose any class. It's really not much different then being restricted to key spheres only being available later in FFX. Just like the sphere grid all attribute upgrades are universal but unlike the sphere grid action commands are restricted to when the characters are set as that role.
Rather then roles like "thief" "monk" or "samurai", roles are separated into simpler terms of Attacker (physical), Attacker (magical), Healer, Enhancer, and debilitater. So that's a bit uninspiring, but they can change in battle as needed (using customized sets). The changes are relatively quick to keep battle pace.[/QUOTE]

How do the overall characters compare and rank within the series. The story. etc.

The Characters are kinda mediocre, hit and miss at times. Overall I feel they do qualify as final fantasy quality characters. They are bottom tier but better then XII or VIII. Like someone said they are all very angsty and I found myself not caring for any of them until about halfway through the game. Some of them settle but still keep their unique-ness and enthusiasm. The bad guy is less ultimate destruction but more scheming and "proper" almost like FFXII antagonists. For the most part of the game there's no clear character antagonist, they are more fighting against their situation or as some people say their destiny.

I know that the linear nature has been a problem for some of you. Is it that big of a deal? The games, some of them seem to be trending toward a more linear approach.

Don't underestimate the linear nature you have heard. It's way more then FFX linearity. In FFX you have the opportunity to go back to almost everywhere you've been to before with the airship eventually, In FFXII there is only a handfull of areas that are fully explorable forwards and backwards. The game gives you a break there to do what you want but then becomes linear for the final stretch of the game again. Right before/after the final boss it gives you the opportunity to go back there again with stronger characters.
The nature of the game makes sense that the characters continue in one direction though so if you think story can justify linearity it may not bother you.

Any other thoughts you have are great. Look forward to hearing about it.

Some last things:
- there are no towns, all buying and upgrading of items is done at save points
- Minigames are only found near the end in the free range area
- There are hunts like XII but again they are near the end
- Geneal consensus I heard it's a game you learn to love, not instantly fall for. I didn't really like the game untill like 10+ hours into the game (in a carnival area)

[Zargabaath]

It's basically exactly the same as FFX's sphere grid. People overestimate the freedom given with the sphere grid, they seem to think it allows any character to grow into any role instantly or at least quickly, but it's not so true. FFX's roles may be more distinctive because there are a lot more action abilities (i.e. Steal, Power break, flee etc.) but gaining those abilities on characters not in line for those has about the same restrictions. Originally each character has a choice of upgrading in 3 classes as desired and later they can choose any class. It's really not much different then being restricted to key spheres only being available later in FFX. Just like the sphere grid all attribute upgrades are universal but unlike the sphere grid action commands are restricted to when the characters are set as that role.
Rather then roles like "thief" "monk" or "samurai", roles are separated into simpler terms of Attacker (physical), Attacker (magical), Healer, Enhancer, and debilitater. So that's a bit uninspiring, but they can change in battle as needed (using customized sets). The changes are relatively quick to keep battle pace.

I must contest the assessment of the Sphere Grid specifically what I bolded. I never have seen people say that, in comparison to the Crystarium Grid that "the Sphere Grid allows any character to grow into any role instantly or at least quickly".

They key spheres do limit expansion till later in the game, though there are a few other spheres that allow the player to move to other points in the Sphere Grid. However what makes the Sphere Grid so great is that it combines both worlds of: character classes and vast customization. Each character in Final Fantasy X has a specific role: Tidus as an agile warrior/time mage, Auron as a Sentinel along with some debuffs and heavy strikes, Rikku as a Thief. Their own section of the Sphere Grid caters to their base roles. On the customization side they can go into any other section of the Sphere Grid and add on the skills of another character. This allows both types of gamer to enjoy the Sphere Grid. Those who want set characters can stay within the characters section, those that like to customize and make combinations can do so as well.

This already shows the difference between the Sphere Grid and the Crystarium Grid, but this last point fully proves that the Sphere Grid offers way more freedom than the Crystarium Grid. In the Sphere Grid when the player reaches a new nod with a stat bonus or ability they can choose whether or not to use a corresponding sphere (power sphere) to gain the stat bonus or ability. This cannot be done in the Crystarium Grid, once the player moves forward the stat bonus, which there is only HP, Strength, & Magic (Power) in Final Fantasy XIII, or ability is automatically gained. This leaves for way less customization.

In Final Fantasy X, the player could take Tidus through Yuna's section yet not unlock any of Yuna's ablities by the player's own choice. In Final Fantasy X, the player could take Lulu and not have her learn any Black Magic and instead go down Auron's section to beef up her strength so she may become a beast physical fighter, with great evasion to boot. The characters in Final Fantasy X can literally become any type of fighter with this level of freedom. Rikku can be the best black mage, Tidus the best healer, Kimarhi the best tank. In Final Fantasy XIII, however, Fang will always have the best strength unless the player opts not to level her Crystarium Grid and not use her in affect. That is not customization that is restrictiveness. The player could choose not to level up the characters main roles, but access into the final three roles is not gained till chapter 10/11(?)! Then the player could try to have Vanille have a better strength than Fang but by that time even if Fang were to focus on Saboteur, Medic, & Synergist Fang may still have a higher strength because that is her focus.

In no way does the Crystarium Grid offer the same level of freedom in what the player wants to do with the characters as the Sphere Grid. The way they are displayed and function are similar but that is all.

[Dan558]

Ok, I admit I overpresented the simularity to the sphere grid and crytalarium but I still stand by the assesment that people overestimate it's customizability. Look at/read this:
GameInternals - Straightening Out Final Fantasy X’s Sphere Grid

It still shows how linear typical character progression is. I also must argue the points you made about any character having equal opportunity in class roles. Sure stats may eventually start to look similar but weapons and armor will always greatly restrict scenarios like Lulu becoming an efficient Auron-like character.
As for the bulk portion of story gameplay, because of initial stats, Lulu will not catch up to Wakka or Tidus in physical hits if she immediatly was put on thier paths from the moment the sphere grid was open and if they were put on a less physically intense track.
In my personal experience I have tried as hard as possible for Rikku to do any sort of decent physical hitting damage (to make her useful other then mix). I left her sphere levels unused untill around Zanarkand then started her immediatly on Tidus's road. She only does a small fraction of the damage he does compared to when he was at that level. And she's a semi physical speed character with wepons aimed in that way.
But baiscally my point is that people overestimate the freedom of the sphere grid and are over critical on the Crystalarium system.

[Zargabaath]

With weapons and armour in Final Fantasy X they too can be customized so that Lulu's dolls can have Strength +30% or something for defense. Customized in a much better implemented system than Final Fantasy XIII's.

I have seen the link you provided before and yes both the Sphere Grid and Crystarium Grid are linear yet you miss the point that the player can choose not to unlock the ability/stat bonus with the Sphere Grid - that is the customization the Crystarium Grid can never match. Crystarium is automatic. Sphere Grid allows the player to always choose though still being a relatively straight path. That link does nothing against my point.

And even though the Sphere Grid is linear as well there are 7 different sections that the player can go to by unlocking a key sphere or warping the latter taking away some of the linearity. Crystarium there is 6 different roles yet since there is no warping it does not take away much of the linearity since when you start a new role it is still going to be just as linear.

[Dan558]

With weapons and armour in Final Fantasy X they too can be customized so that Lulu's dolls can have Strength +30% or something for defense. Customized in a much better implemented system than Final Fantasy XIII's.

I have seen the link you provided before and yes both the Sphere Grid and Crystarium Grid are linear yet you miss the point that the player can choose not to unlock the ability/stat bonus with the Sphere Grid - that is the customization the Crystarium Grid can never match. Crystarium is automatic. Sphere Grid allows the player to always choose though still being a relatively straight path. That link does nothing against my point.

And even though the Sphere Grid is linear as well there are 7 different sections that the player can go to by unlocking a key sphere or warping the latter taking away some of the linearity. Crystarium there is 6 different roles yet since there is no warping it does not take away much of the linearity since when you start a new role it is still going to be just as linear.

The fact remains that Lulu will never become an Auron in any practical amount of time (ie. before one shotting every non-boss in the game is possible for every character) but people seem to think the characters can be anything they want in FFX right off the bat or even halfway through the game. Just like in FFXIII the option to become proficient in anything but thier select roles isn't even a possibility untill way late in the game. At least with FFXIII characters they start with the possibility of choosing to level in one, two or all three of the intial role choices given. If anything it gives the player the freedom to use any character in any situation if need be (although theres the separate issue of not choosing your team untill later but thats not the point here). If paradigms are selected well any battle is possible with any team. In FFX if you only had the option of rikku, yuna and Kimarhi there would be some battles that are extremely hard if not insanely long when only kimhari or the odd mix from rikku does any real damage. Sure eventually everyone in FFX can become more efficient at attacking any kind of fiend but so can any character eventually in FFXIII. On a normal playthrough though FFX characters can level one role while FFXIII characters can level 3 different ones easier then a FFX character can try.
Also there ARE some optional branches in the crystalarium with useful abilities that you seem to completely ignore. they can be ignored and expanded upon at any time later. Same goes for entire roles. Lightning can be a healer from the start but you can easily choose(from the start) NOT to level it just as one would choose not to bring tidus down his path and only get the bare essential (ignoring nodes like your point) till later but then Tidus suffers while a FFXIII character can choose to excell in another role right away.
Again I'm not even saying the crystalarium is better it's just that people hate it way to much and completely ignore the fact that something like the sphere grid had more limitations then people ever admit. Then theres comparing the crystalarium to almost every FF game before FFX, you had almost NO real choice in a direction leveling could take aside from extremely minor(pretty much unnoticable) boosts with materia or level bonuses from espers etc so why do people whine and bitch now? When FFXXII comes out our kids could be having the same arguement with FFXIII in FFX's place, it's all rose colored glasses for old games and hyper-critical additudes towards new ones with something different. Dosn't help that with only MMORPGs and a lackluster FFXII sorrounding FFXIII people were expecting the moon for PS3's only real Final Fantasy. It wasn't perfect so people pick at it to death I only hope it works against the anti-hype that when people play it they are like "Why are they bitching? it's not as bad as people whine about". Kinda the opposite of FFVII's treatment now adays, people oversell it so more people hate it when it's not what people claimed it was.

TLDNR? Basically. I made a mistake in saying Crystalarium was exactly the same as the sphere grid but it is over-hated (in the same way some people say FFVII is over-loved). They are similar though with the freedoms and restrictions offered; any character can eventually do well in any role but when defying thier suggested roles it only pays out well after everything in the game becomes easy anyways.

[BDub2277]

Battle system I'd say is the best part of the game hands down. Square finally found that perfect balance in between the systems of X and XII I feel, and hopefully it is something they build upon in the future.

Not a big fan of the level system, to me it's like a lame version of the sphere grid from X.

Story isn't bad, as people have said, it is presented in such a linear fashion, it is hard to get any scope or magnitude of it. The game almost feels like a race to the finish line down a straight line.

For me the characters are depressingly average when it comes to Final Fantasy's. I think they have more identity than XII's characters, but still pale compared to that VII-X group.

And yeah the linear story/nature of the game I think is kind of a buzz kill. Kinda causes you to zip through an area, and you never really get to go back to explore what could be a really cool world. There is one open area in the game, but it comes pretty late, and is filled with side quests analogous to XII's hunts.

[markandrewkinzett]

I have not played this game either but I have seen it being played and in my opinion it looks ****ing awesome!!! The graphics and cutscenses are absoluely mind blowing and the gameplay system is great I want to play it sometime and I think you should definately look into it!!!

[ZenMonkey59]

It's a great game...but yeah, it is extremely linear.

You don't get any open worlds until Chapter 11/13. Which is too bad, because the cities you visit are gorgeous, and you want to explore them.

The whole game feels like you're running down one big hallway, and that does get really obnoxious really fast.

Luckily for FFXIII, the story is great, and you're kind of okay with the linearity because you want to advance the story as fast as possible.

The new battle system is hit or miss depending on the person. Its much more frantic than previous games, but it is a LOT of fun. I love it, but I know people who absolutely hated the battle system.

If you like Final Fantasy, you'll probably like the game. The battle system is a great departure, but its really just an improvement on the ATB system that was introduced in VII.