Lackluster/Forgetable Character Ranking

[BDub2277]

Figured I'd start this prompt since I was thinking about 12 today, and my lack of memory of it's characters.

I was wondering how you guys think 12 compares to other Final Fantasy's in terms of how forgettable the characters are.

Honestly, I feel like 12 is super plot driven with little-no emphasis on character interaction or character development.

[Zargabaath]

I find the characters of Final Fantasy XII to be very well done even when compared to other Final Fantasys. Regardless if I don't like a certain FF, like Final Fantasy XIII, I'm not going to forget the characters or how to properly spell their names. In all FFs I can remember the main cast and most if not all the supporting cast. So to me forgetting a character is not a problem even if they weren't a good character.

What is character development to you? Is it character "x" has a problem/trait in the beginning of the game; by the end of the game said problem/trait has changed or been solved. Is character development to you only when the character grows as a person?

If so I would have to say you ought to learn what character development actually means. A good character does not need to grow throughout the game in order to have good "character development". I take this excerpt of mine pertaining to a character that largely does not grow from another post regarding Final Fantasy XII's characters:

As I said a character does not need to grow in a game to be a good character, having good character development outside of growth can be enough. Prime example is Basch who never really changes throughout the game. His values, character traits, personality are set; he is already grown and matured and does not have some behavior that needs fixing via a "save the kingdom" journey. Be that as it may, his story is one of my favourites because of his relationship with Gabranth. Basch lost his honor when King and kingdom fell, yet he still keeps his knightly vows to protect Ashe when he could not protect Dalmasca or Landis for the matter. Though he forsakes what he holds most dear Basch still must do what what he must because not having honor from people is less important than protecting Ashe.

Along with that Basch gives insight to the possibility of Archadia and Dalmasca co-existing in peace when he tells Ashe, after leaving Jahara, that such a world exists as the camera focuses on Vaan, Penelo, & Larsa joking around & who can be considered friends.

Here is another excerpt from the same thread of the previous quote:

Some people have found Vaan's naivety to bother them, myself on the other-foot found his naive exploits pretty funny such as when the party first meets the Gran Kiltias, Vaan wonders if he is asleep at which time the Gran Kiltias wakes up and Vaan, scared, stands at attention. Vaan has some funny moments which adds to his personality....

Adding to his personality is character development and to continue:

Back to Vaan, throughout the story he does grow: the scene at the Jahara bridge revealing why he tagged along and his new resolution and many times one of the cast members mentions how Vaan is becoming more and more of a sky pirate, more so than Balthier which went in tandem with him becoming more of a leader. Vaan does have his share of serious moments that showed he wasn't plain dumb; one of my personal favourites is after the party rescues Mjrn in the Henne Mines. Larsa takes the manufacted nethicite from Penelo after learning its harmful affects saying to some degree that he shouldn't have left such a dangerously powerful item in her possession, because he values her as a friend, to which Ashe replies that "even power such as this has its place". Vaan is looking at her while she says this and his response is not a long or epic, but impactful and insightful. Vaan says, "I hope you are right". That simple sentence is character development for it reveals that Vaan isn't too sure about people wielding such enormous power and that it has use.

Vaan also takes charges in Eruyt Village when the party needs to locate Mjrn and Jote is being slighty stubborn. Balthier congratulates Vaan on getting the information for he felt that they would get nothing from her. For Vaan and Penelo, there is the scene going up the Pharos Lighthouse:

Penelo: I wonder if she'll really do it, take revenge against the Empire.

[The camera shows Ashe who walks ahead.]

Penelo: I mean, I know how she must feel. It's hard losing someone you care
about.

Vaan: (sighs) Something we all got in common.

Penelo: But, you know, no matter how hard we try, we can't change the past.
There's nothing that can bring them back. Still, sometimes, when I close my
eyes… I can see them so clearly.

Reddas: The Illusions of the past. You think to have cast them off, only to
find them years later, unwearying, unrelenting. The past can bind a man as
surely as irons.

[The camera shows Ashe who glances at the waterfall.]

Reddas: Cut the true path. But will she?

Here we see one thing the party has in common in some form, Penelo's understanding of Ashe, the realization that no matter what the dead can't be brought back, and how the past can still affect/haunt a person years down the road. Penelo's words in bolded give prelude to Vaan's reaction to Gabranth atop the Pharos:

Gabranth: You claim no need of power? What of your broken kingdom's shame? The
dead demand justice!

Vaan: You're wrong. What would change? I can't help my brother now. My
brother's gone. He's dead!

[Vaan shows a slight snarl towards Gabranth as there is a brief pause.]

Ashe: Even with power, we cannot change what has passed. What is done, is done.

Before what is bolded Vaan was ready to fight Gabranth with one of Reddas' swords but when his & Ashe's gaze meet he calmed down for he knew the truth that nothing could change the past.

Ashe and Balthier, the latter especially, are usually not a problem with the players. Fran and Penelo get more flak. Penelo's importance, much like Vaan's is to be the commoner's point of view. How many FF main characters (leads) are an ordinary person with no special powers, lineage, or foretold in prophecy. Vaan and as well as Penelo show that a person does not need to be unique to save their homeland, that a common person in this tale has as much to fight for as the others.

Fran's character is that of the wise-sage but her development in Eruyt Village reminded me of Freya a bit. Instead of somebody she knows forgetting her, she tells her sisters, specifically Mjrn, to forget her willfully just as she willfully forgets them and of being a part of the wood. Ostracization by choice but not because she has ill feelings towards the wood or her sisters for she still deeply cares about them which pains her. That to me hit home quite well, she doesn't get as much development as other characters afterwards but that deeply resonated with me. Continuing, she feels that the Viera cannot sit idle when the world around them changes and by being outside the wood she can explore the outside world and protect it such as through the events of the game.

I won't go into the characters much farther than this, at least initially.

[Locke4God]

I can't say that I disagree, but I will say that I rank a couple of games lower in terms of character. 8 - my 2nd favorite game, actually had pretty bland characters overall. They were basically all clones in regards to both ability and story, although I did like them in the end. And of course FF 1 & 2 both had very very very minimal characterization, 2 being the stronger of those.

You know though, Basch, Ashe, & Balthier were pretty strong when it comes down to it. Fran a little, but it didn't matter much in the big picture of the game, and then I do agree that Vaan & especially Penelo were pretty thin.

[Dan558]

It was one of the worst flaws of the game to me. The characters were almost all very unbearibly boring. ost of the time it's like why are they doing this? Penelo, Vaan, and Fran could all be taken out of the game without any serious plot breakdown.

Aside from games where the playable characters are interchangable nobodies (ie the starting team in FFT before you get overrun by recruitable characters who's story then screetches to a halt because they are optional) they are the worst in the series.

Balthier and Ashe are the only ones that have any real story to them, too bad Ashe is bland and annoying as hell. Basche has a hint of cool but is forgetable.

I have the uncanny ability to remember anything useless so thier names may not escape me but any possible feeling or intrest in this game sure has. FFXII is a greyish bland tumor on the FF series, for characters it ranks even lower then the original Crystal Chronicles or even GTA II characters for me.

[Locke4God]

Crystal Chronicles? lower than that? WOW!

2 things with the Characters that would have given you a completely different impression.

1 - A strong lead. Vaan had practically no story, whereas Squall, Cloud, Cecil, Tidus, & Zidane at the very least had tremendous backstories that were secret even to them, and when revealed changed the outlook of the game. Vaan wasn't that kind of "destiny" character by any stretch.

2 - Balthier, Ashe, and Basch were great top level teamates, and we know Penelo was a bit of a throw in, which is ok. But I think the game would have benefited more with another oddball but moderately important characters, on the lines of Cait Sith, Quiena, Umuru, etc. A banga that joins your party? Something different just to spice it up a bit.

[BDub2277]

1 - A strong lead. Vaan had practically no story, whereas Squall, Cloud, Cecil, Tidus, & Zidane at the very least had tremendous backstories that were secret even to them, and when revealed changed the outlook of the game. Vaan wasn't that kind of "destiny" character by any stretch.
.

Totally agreed, to be honest I don't even think of Vaan as a lead character. Sure you start out with him, but he takes a backseat to Basch and Balthier who I think come the closest to a lead character.

[Dan558]

Crystal Chronicles? lower than that? WOW!

But I think the game would have benefited more with another oddball but moderately important characters, on the lines of Cait Sith, Quiena, Umuru, etc. A banga that joins your party? Something different just to spice it up a bit.

Yep lower then Crystal Chronicles at least in overall characters. Crystal Chronicles had eccentric non-player characters of Hurdy and Gurdy, The black knight, the Striped Brigands (especially Artimicon); all were better then any yawn-fest FFXII character.

Another oddball/other species would be a welcome addition to the cast. Fran just didn't cut it, she was one of te most boring characters, shes like Lulu but way worse.

[Locke4God]

But you couldn't possibly rate Crystal Chronicals as the better game could you? I'll be honest I only made it through about 10 hours or so, but that game just felt really low brow and maybe even childish to me. Did I miss something?

[Dan558]

But you couldn't possibly rate Crystal Chronicals as the better game could you? I'll be honest I only made it through about 10 hours or so, but that game just felt really low brow and maybe even childish to me. Did I miss something?

For replay value and pure fun? Yes for sure. Overall though, it's hard to say. FFXII had more and it is a main series but it really just had the advantage of being on a superior system. For strong story? I guess FFXII has potential to be interesting for some people while Crystal Chronicles had about the same depth of story as Super Mario Bros 3. I don't think SMB3 is bad because of a lacking story because it had great gameplay. I don't think FFXII had great gameplay either so it loses there too.

I would much rather play Crystal Chronicles again then FFXII so I probably do rank Crystal Chronicles higher.

[Zargabaath]

1 - A strong lead. Vaan had practically no story, whereas Squall, Cloud, Cecil, Tidus, & Zidane at the very least had tremendous backstories that were secret even to them, and when revealed changed the outlook of the game.

Totally agreed, to be honest I don't even think of Vaan as a lead character. Sure you start out with him, but he takes a backseat to Basch and Balthier who I think come the closest to a lead character.

For the strong lead in Final Fantasy XII that character is Ashe, the protagonist of this tale. It may be hard for some to grasp but the main character and protagonist do not have to be one in the same. In Final Fantasy XII Vaan is the main character but he does not take a definitive commanding lead. As the story progresses he does become more of a leader, gaining the experience and characteristics necessary to fill the role.

Tidus in the beginning was much like Vaan. The main character but not the protagonist, but during the journey Tidus gains the characteristics of a leader. He also, in my view, shares the protagonist role towards the end when it really becomes "his story".

Vaan wasn't that kind of "destiny" character by any stretch.

True, but this made him fresh and not the cliche hero-type of Final Fantasy. His importance to me is that a person does not need to be "divine" to defend/restore their homeland. Some people brush that off as being not good enough, yet a person just has to look through history to see cases of ordinary people defending or trying to restore their country from a conqueror. Are their reasons just as flimsy as Vaan's is viewed?

[FeyLenne13]

I think the characters of FF12 were forgettable. The whole game seems to be based on running around and killing things or yelling/threatening one another. I really hope they did better as far as storyline and characters in 13 otherwise I may have to double my search for the older games just to have something "new" to play.

[nickness89]

A banga that joins your party? Something different just to spice it up a bit.

I agree with this. I loved the fact that in VII, IX and X the party was a mix of races, humans alongside Quina, Cait Sith, Vincent (with his shapeshifting ability), Red XIII, Vivi, Kimahri, Freya etc. This made the characters overall a good mix, with different characteristics and values, it also meant they all had something extremely different to fight for, rather than just the safety of a kingdom.

XII did have pretty weak characters, but they did have good character development. I mean, yes Vaan was naive (which i think is a good trait) and Penelo was basically there to even-out the odds, but the characters were all interesting to me, especially Ashe, Basch and Balthier, who basically didn't really have much of a backstory, but still gripped my interest.

p.s I fell in love with Vaan, he is awesome!! :lolol:

[FeyLenne13]

Did they do some massive changes in the staff when they switched from SquareSoft to SquareEnix? I mean come on, what happened to the FF we all love to play over and over again?

[BruceWayne]

I don't think the game lacked anything plot or character's. I could have more story to it, but if you have even the slightest bit of imagination, you can fill in the blanks yourself. I was very pleased that they didn't bother with the non-sence in previous final fantasy games, this goes for 7 to 10, all these games were good but their were times when my brain began melting during cutscenes, expecially in older final fantasy games. The replay count for final fantasy 7 is over, now that I've played and beaten it around 5 times I doubt I'll ever play it again, the same goes for 9 and I don't know why I ever liked FFX because half of Yuna's decisions seemed like a retard was making them, I could go into detail but why bother. I haven't forgotton any characters from any of the games,

but just because one game has more story then another, does not mean it has a better story. FF12 is a brilliant RPG game, one of the best out there.
This game is under-rated by the fans of final fantasy because most play a final fantasy game expecting something, One thing I've learned after playing every final fantasy is that you can't expect shit from them, that's not what they do.

[lady ashe]

i can remember the characters of the games i play. in FFXII, i can remember everyone who is metioed, and somehow i can remember a whole coversion in FFX:

tidus-seymour!
seymour-pray silence, lady yuna prays to the fayth
tidus-make me!
yuna comes out
tidus- yuna!
yuna-but why?
tidus-we saw jsycals sphere
auron-you killed him
seymour-what of it?lady yuna you surely knew of these things?
yuna nods
seymour-then why have you come?
yuna-i-i have come to stop you!
seymour- i see, to punish me then
seymour holds out his had
yuna shakes head and steps back
seymour-what a pity.
guardians surround yuna
seymour- of course, "protect the summoner even at the costs of ones life" the code of the guardian, how admirable, well if its your lives your offering i shall have to take them.
seymour raises hand, is joined by two guados
yuna-seymour! i trust my guardians with my life, but they are also my friends and i wont watch them be hurt. i shall fight too!
seymour- so be it
boss fight

well thats what i remember, if its right i dont know, seeing as i can no longer go back to that part as my game freezes at Kilika when yuna does the sendig