Zidane's soul (Spoilers)

[Griever]

Hello everyone, I'm new and this will be my first post in the forums. I want to know your opinions about something that occurs during the third disc of the game in Final Fantasy IX, of course.

When Zidane visits Pandemonium, he confronts Garland and learns about his origins, Kuja and the Genomes.

Dialogue:

Zidane
"I wouldn't want that kind of power... if I only had a place to call home..."
"My brothers in Tantalus, Vivi, Freya, Amarant, Quina, Steiner, Eiko, and...Dagger..."

"My home is with them in Gaia!"
"If you say I have a motive, then it's to punish all of you who brought pain to my friends!"
"I'll destroy Terra! That's reason enough for my birth here as a Genome!"

Garland
"Regrettable... I thought your soul would be perfect for a new angel of death..."

Zidane
"I AM the new angel of death! Yours!!!"

Garland
"Don't you know what it means to meet your maker?"

Zidane
"Shut up! I've heard enough of your crap! I'm taking you out, right here, right now!"

Garland
"Foolishness..."

"The body becomes a vessel, which greets a new soul..."

Zidane
"What's happening!?"

[Zidane falls down]

Garland
"He's too good to make into a regular Genome..."
"But I have no choice."

As we can see here, Zidane refuses to accept his fate and tries to fight Garland, but is easily defeated by him. Afterwards, Zidane appears all alone inside a jail and when he awakens, he seems all messed up for some reason. What I want to know is if Garland removed Zidane's soul in that period of time. Garland clearly states that he thought Zidane's soul would be perfect for a new Angel of Death, but when he saw Zidane's refusal, he decided to make him a regular Genome. Then he performed that spell and these words: 'The body becomes a vessel, which greets a new soul' appears as hint on screen.

So, I want to know your opinions, did Garland removed Zidane's soul? Or, he somehow modified him? What exactly happened...?

By the way, sorry for my bad English.

[Zargabaath]

While there seems to be some "light" evidence for Garland taking Zidane's soul I think that Garland did not take Zidane's soul. Here is my reasoning: I believe Garland is referring to the process of how the souls of the Terrans would inhabit the bodies of the Genomes when the time was right. I believe Garland just took the "Angel of Death" part in Zidane that made him special from other Genomes.

I would think that all Genomes had no souls to begin with therefore Garland could not take away Zidane's soul. Which leads me further to believe that by taking away what was special about Zidane it perhaps took a little bit of his personality - not that his personality was all about being an Angel of Death. If none of Zidane's personality was taken away it could be that Zidane was just bummed about getting beaten so soundly by Garland.

[Griever]

While there seems to be some "light" evidence for Garland taking Zidane's soul I think that Garland did not take Zidane's soul. Here is my reasoning: I believe Garland is referring to the process of how the souls of the Terrans would inhabit the bodies of the Genomes when the time was right. I believe Garland just took the "Angel of Death" part in Zidane that made him special from other Genomes.

I would think that all Genomes had no souls to begin with therefore Garland could not take away Zidane's soul. Which leads me further to believe that by taking away what was special about Zidane it perhaps took a little bit of his personality - not that his personality was all about being an Angel of Death. If none of Zidane's personality was taken away it could be that Zidane was just bummed about getting beaten so soundly by Garland.

Yeah, Garland thought Zidane's soul was perfect for an Angel of Death, but later he regrets it when Zidane refuses to accept his fate and when states that he will destroy Terra. Garland then says that Zidane was too good to make into a regular Genome, but that he had no choice. However, if he didn't took his soul, what he did to Zidane? That isn't pretty clear. What was that spell that Garland performed to automatically put Zidane in a (apparently) long sleep? I don't think that was just some random magic to defeat Zidane, because Garland could have done it a second time, but he never does it again. That was indeed something different than just a mere spell.

Also, the souls cannot inhabit the bodies of the Genomes, because the Genomes are in fact souless, they are made to carry the souls once the habitants of Terra revives. And let's remember that Zidane would never be like the rest of the Genomes, simply by the fact that he has already developed emotions. Kuja and Mikoto had souls. And Mikoto said that she was made to replace Zidane, but I think Garland gave her a soul just because he thought Zidane was lost. Anyway, my hypothesis is that Garland removed/modified Zidane's soul. I just follow these lines: 'The body becomes a vessel' (Zidane's soul leaves his body, thus he becomes a vessel, like the rest of the Genomes) then: 'which greets a new soul' (Zidane receives a new soul). And by doing that, Garland tried to change or erase Zidane's memories. Seeing as how the souls are related to memories, that option can be plausible. Still, this is pretty confusing...

[Xithor]

I have to agree with Zargabaath since Garland had already said that he planned to use the Genomes on Terra as vessels for all the souls of Gaia. So in order for them to be able to take on the new souls once the convergence of Gaia and Terra is complete they would need to be empty to begin. So I would think that the regular Genomes have no soul whatsoever.

Now obviously Kuja, Zidane, and even Mikoto are different from all the other genomes because they are all capable of things that the other genomes aren't and that is having feelings and emotions. Kuja and Zidane obviously were "Angels of Death", Zidane being the more advanced model and Mikoto was the replacement for Zidane which Garland sensed he was going to need. Being the "Angel of Death" they were both sent to Gaia in order to accelerate the cycle of souls and push the nations into a state of war, which Kuja partially did successfully, and Zidane was meant to do the same so an interesting follow up for that is why did Zidane not? Did he have a "Goku" like moment when he was hit on the head and completely forgot who he was and where he came from (DBZ reference). I can't quite remember if they ever alluded to any of that our how Zidane came to not be an Angel of Death.

But anyways I'm a little off topic, I don't think that Zidane's soul was taken from him by Garland. I believe Garland was that strong of a mage that he was able to simply knock Zidane unconscious possibly by mind control like what he uses to talk to Zidane in Memoria later on. He possibly then removed the thing that made Zidane unique, which Zargabaath described as the "Angel of Death" part. But I think that Zidane was so down in the dumps because first of all he found out that his whole existence was a fabrication and he was meant to do evil, secondly he believed that he was on his own and that no one could help him, almost felt abandoned by his comrades and distance from them at the same time now knowing that he was not like them, he was not from Gaia. So then why was he able to face Garland once again without succumbing to the same spell, I would attribute that to him having the strength of his comrades there to support him.

So in conclusion, I would say that Garland removed that "Angel of Death" capability from Zidane during that first confrontation if that even makes any sense but Zidane was able to keep his personality and memories because they weren't a part of his "Angel of Death" persona, they were a part of him. I agree that it is confusing and I've never really thought about it so in depth but this is my favorite game of the series, and Zidane is my favorite character so I enjoy discussing him.

[Griever]

I have to agree with Zargabaath since Garland had already said that he planned to use the Genomes on Terra as vessels for all the souls of Gaia. So in order for them to be able to take on the new souls once the convergence of Gaia and Terra is complete they would need to be empty to begin. So I would think that the regular Genomes have no soul whatsoever.

Now obviously Kuja, Zidane, and even Mikoto are different from all the other genomes because they are all capable of things that the other genomes aren't and that is having feelings and emotions. Kuja and Zidane obviously were "Angels of Death", Zidane being the more advanced model and Mikoto was the replacement for Zidane which Garland sensed he was going to need. Being the "Angel of Death" they were both sent to Gaia in order to accelerate the cycle of souls and push the nations into a state of war, which Kuja partially did successfully, and Zidane was meant to do the same so an interesting follow up for that is why did Zidane not? Did he have a "Goku" like moment when he was hit on the head and completely forgot who he was and where he came from (DBZ reference). I can't quite remember if they ever alluded to any of that our how Zidane came to not be an Angel of Death.

Yeah, I know they are vessels for the souls of Terra. I know the Genomes are soulless and I know they have to be empty once the fusion is complete. But what does that explain? I don't quite understand this point. I mean, I don't see the relation of that with Garland's and Zidane's scene. Besides, Garland does mention that Zidane was meant to be immortal or something like that. He needed him.

So, what you're saying is that souls are responsible of beings' emotions? I thought they were related to memories. Mikoto seemed like the rest of the Genomes, she had a cold aura. The Black Mages (if I am not mistaken) are soulless as well, but Vivi has emotions. And Zidane never did such things nor became a Angel of Death because in the moment of his birth Kuja left him in Gaia. Let's remember Kuja was jealous of him, because Zidane was superior.

But anyways I'm a little off topic, I don't think that Zidane's soul was taken from him by Garland. I believe Garland was that strong of a mage that he was able to simply knock Zidane unconscious possibly by mind control like what he uses to talk to Zidane in Memoria later on. He possibly then removed the thing that made Zidane unique, which Zargabaath described as the "Angel of Death" part. But I think that Zidane was so down in the dumps because first of all he found out that his whole existence was a fabrication and he was meant to do evil, secondly he believed that he was on his own and that no one could help him, almost felt abandoned by his comrades and distance from them at the same time now knowing that he was not like them, he was not from Gaia. So then why was he able to face Garland once again without succumbing to the same spell, I would attribute that to him having the strength of his comrades there to support him.

So in conclusion, I would say that Garland removed that "Angel of Death" capability from Zidane during that first confrontation if that even makes any sense but Zidane was able to keep his personality and memories because they weren't a part of his "Angel of Death" persona, they were a part of him. I agree that it is confusing and I've never really thought about it so in depth but this is my favorite game of the series, and Zidane is my favorite character so I enjoy discussing him.

Yes, but apparently that worked only against Zidane, reason of why Garland didn't tried the same thing on the rest of the party members, nor on Kuja. I agree Garland had enough power to do such things, but let's remember he is the creator of the Genomes, so one can assume he can successfully remove their souls, and he was going to do it anyway once the fusion is complete. Nowhere is implied Garland can affect people's emotions, he had indeed spiritual power over the Genomes. Did you saw the part when he ironically says: 'Don't you know what it means to meet your maker?'. Besides, if we take that as just a mere magical spell, then we're ignoring those important words. Zidane was unique due his soul, so if Garland removed the part which made Zidane unique, then he removed his soul. And when Zidane was in that jail or prison, he starts dreaming about his friends... and then he says 'I am an empty vessel' (I don't know why though).

I know right? This is damn confusing, I thought this needed to be discussed, so I made this thread to exchange opinions with people and other fans. I personally think Garland did removed Zidane's soul, but I am not 100% sure. That's why I need different standpoints. I just hope we reach the truth about this soon!

[markandrewkinzett]

I cannot give you a definite answer to this cuz I am not sure myself but I would say Garland tried to get his soul but ****ed up the spell cuz he goes weird at first then just goes back to normal so I guess it was a mistake in Garlands spell casting ability!!!

[Xale]

In memoria we learn that memories are shared between people and everyone is connected through the crystal. The crystal was blocked off by Garland however, until Zidane and party destroyed deathcage and allowed the cycle to continue properly. The crystal is the root that holds everyones memories together and keeps them all connected to Gaia. Zidane, although not from Gaia, put his mark in the souls of his friends and made such an impact on them that he existed in their memories. Garland did remove Zidanes soul but because he was a part of his friends memories, a part of his soul was with them as well and he was able to recover it remembering who they are and who he is. This game really makes you think though; what is a soul? Is it something you are born with or something you earn? The Black Mages are said to be soulless puppets, yet, they have just as much character as anyone else.