Gunblades

[jenova666]

I know everyone says that Garden gunblades in FF8 don't shoot bullets......they just make the blade vibrate. My question is, why can't they do both?
The Lionheart has what looks like one of those really powerful five or six-shooter handguns (i.e. Smith & Wesson 500 Cal Magnum), but no barrel so it would have very poor accuracy. At very close range, though -- like that in a swordfight -- the bullets could probably be expected to hit something after vibrating the blade. If the gun part was really that powerful, the inaccuracy could be made up with really good vibrations that could be expected to tear through a lot.
The Hyperion gun looks more like an automatic pistol with smaller ammo and a larger magazine size, and actually seems to include a barrel. It could then be more accurate but with less intense vibrations, along with a larger blade. That way Squall and Seifer fighting would give advantages and disadvantages to each character. The whole thing doesn't have to be totally practical anyway, since it is a video game.
Thoughts?

[Rowan]

I know everyone says that Garden gunblades in FF8 don't shoot bullets......they just make the blade vibrate.

Who says that? They are completly wrong. Of course it shoots bullets, thats why its a GUNblade. So the point of it having a barrel and trigger is so that bullets placed within that barrel are fired once the trigger is pulled. There would be no sense in making the blade vibrate. You are right to think it is odd, because gunblades in fact, fire bullets.

[jenova666]

I just figured they didn't fire because in the game, Squall never attacks from a distance with it, and it says on the wiki at Gunblade - The Final Fantasy Wiki has more Final Fantasy information than Cid could research that they don't........
Is it different in Dissidia? I guess this is more along the lines of if SE remade FF8.

[Yoko]

It is different in Dissidia. You actually see bullet shells falling from the blade. I can't remember where I read that though.

In FFXIII, they can do both. Light has amazing sword fighting skills, and it able to shoot with the same weapon. I love her skill. <3

If there was something lacking in VIII, it was the fact that Squall couldn't fire his gun. I kind of wish there was an explanation behind it.

[jenova666]

For me it was the GFs -- I didn't really like how overpowered they were, and how they fit in the story with pretty much no explanation. They had cool animations and everything, but it would've been even more fun if you could just destroy with your weapons all the time. I mean, in FF7 magic made sense because you knew it was all mako..........

[ZantetsukeN]

For me it was the GFs -- I didn't really like how overpowered they were, and how they fit in the story with pretty much no explanation. They had cool animations and everything, but it would've been even more fun if you could just destroy with your weapons all the time. I mean, in FF7 magic made sense because you knew it was all mako..........

Actually, there is explanation for the GFs. They are used as tools for SeeDs, but at the cost of losing your memory, which is how the team forgot a major point of their lives, and how the came to realise who Edea was. Also, they were not overpowered, and they are also the source of the team's power. Without them, they would be screwed.

But, on topic, I think the whole Gunblade concept was good. I liked how they didn't shoot. It would have been boring for it to be simply used as a gun, and it also added to the concept of the conventional sword.

Also in Dissidia, it still doesn't really shoot. You see the shells fly out yes, but you would have in VIII if the graphics were a bit more advanced, and if little extras like that weren't difficult to animate 12 years ago.

[Rowan]

Just following up. The 'trigger' button is R1. When you slash an enemy, you fire by pressing R1 at the same time. Just because there was no option to fire it from a distance, that did not meant the gun didnt shoot at all. I have read the wiki and found it to be innacurate. In game it says 'pull trigger by pressing R1' therefor indictaing how to fire the gun.


Utilizing some info up top, what weapon does lightning use? a gunblade. Does she fire bullets? yes she does. What weapon does squall use? a gunblade. does he fire bullets? YES HE DOES. not from a long range, but he does when he attacks enemies. Gunblades fire bullets.

[jenova666]

They are used as tools for SeeDs, but at the cost of losing your memory, which is how the team forgot a major point of their lives, and how the came to realise who Edea was

Sorry, my bad. You forget after a while.........

As to it actually "shooting", couldn't that also mean R1 pulls the trigger to make it vibrate by shooting against the blade?

[ZantetsukeN]

It does shoot, but not in the conventional way. Here is a picture I actually used to explain this before:



There blade is in the way, but there is enough room for the bullet to fire out. Therefore, it does shoot, but not in the same way a normal gun would.

Incase I caused some confusion in my last post.

[Yoko]

It does shoot, but not in the conventional way. Here is a picture I actually used to explain this before:



There blade is in the way, but there is enough room for the bullet to fire out. Therefore, it does shoot, but not in the same way a normal gun would.

Incase I caused some confusion in my last post.

As to it actually "shooting", couldn't that also mean R1 pulls the trigger to make it vibrate by shooting against the blade?

As Rowan said, it does shoot. Being able to convey that with the technology they had 12 years would be hard. Why else would you need to pull a trigger? I've seen drawings of gunblades close up, and they try to incorporate that it actually does shoot and accommodate bullets. The fact that it had a large 'bayonet' on the end would actually weigh it down, making it inaccurate to shoot a target from a distance. Which is why Squall has 100% accuracy at close range. (That is if you've learned how to use his blade properly). He can hit his target under blind status as well if you use the blade right. (I've throughly tested this. I love Malboros)

With regard to Lightning's blade, A lot of the weight had been equally distributed amongst the gun part and the blade. Thus making it an efficient gun, and a blade. It really shows how Square's weapons have progressed over the years.

And to answer the question, I don't think it just 'vibrates the blade'. Why would a vibration make an explosion? It's the type of explosion that you get when gunpowder is released when the gun is shot. Much like what you see from a .44 Magnum. It's just exaggerated to show a hit when you use it right. I love the gunblade <3

The quote above also proves this as well. I'm convinced.

[jenova666]

So if we had any kind of remake or other game with FF8 characters playable, Square Enix might actually incorporate into the gameplay shooting the gun from a distance? That would be pretty cool.

[ZantetsukeN]

No, I'm not too sure you're getting it really.

The gunblade cannot shoot from a distance. The barrell is embedded in the blade, thus the blade is in the way. In effect, the bullet causes an explosion, which will increase the attack intensity. There is no way of the gunblade actually firing a round in the conventional way. You can't aim it and fire, it's to power up the attack.

[Rowan]

Id love to know what other people think. It seems like a good topic for debate. So far, this is what we have.

-Squall and Lightning both use a gunblade.
-Lightnings gunblade fires bullets from a long range as we've seen in ffXIII,
Squalls has never fired a bullet from a long range.
-In ffVIII, You are able to pull the trigger using R1 when attacking, which creates a explosion which could be seen as a bullet firing
-Squalls gunblade does not seem to have ea visable barrell going through the blade of the sword.

If lightning and squall both use the same weapon (a gunblade) why is it that lightning can fire bullets and squall cannot, given they are the same weapon but different models?
Also, once again, The gunblade has a trigger and as previously mentioned, what purpose would a trigger and a chamber for bullets serve if NOT firing bullets?

[FeyLenne13]

Not trying to be trouble, but Squall's was an earlier model so it would make sense for it to have kinks and Lightning's later model not to. Lol I have noted though that when writing my sequel to FF8, I will have Squall's gunblade shoot at a distance

[Yoko]

Id love to know what other people think. It seems like a good topic for debate. So far, this is what we have.

-Squall and Lightning both use a gunblade.
-Lightnings gunblade fires bullets from a long range as we've seen in ffXIII,
Squalls has never fired a bullet from a long range.
-In ffVIII, You are able to pull the trigger using R1 when attacking, which creates a explosion which could be seen as a bullet firing
-Squalls gunblade does not seem to have ea visable barrell going through the blade of the sword.

If lightning and squall both use the same weapon (a gunblade) why is it that lightning can fire bullets and squall cannot, given they are the same weapon but different models?
Also, once again, The gunblade has a trigger and as previously mentioned, what purpose would a trigger and a chamber for bullets serve if NOT firing bullets?

It shoots bullets. It's just hard to make it look obvious when the technology back then was lacking. Plus, since the barrel of the gun only goes about a quarter down the blade, it would be impossible to shoot it from afar. Therefore you can't see that he actually CAN shoot a bullet. Other models of his blade have yet to be examined. Also, my question now is, why don't we need to buy bullets for Squall's gun, even though it's obvious that it holds bullets.

[Rowan]

Also, my question now is, why don't we need to buy bullets for Squall's gun, even though it's obvious that it holds bullets.

Well we didnt need to buy bullets for irvines normal attack or lagunas gun. The only bullets bought in the game are for that of Irvines limit break. Hmmmz...

[jenova666]

Basically, either:

1) Squall's gunblade fires bullets from a distance, though it is really really inaccurate and only effective at close range since it doesn't have a barrel
2)The gun part is only fired to cause more damage with the explosion of the gunpowder/vibrations of the blade when the bullet glances off the notch you can see the barrel sitting in
3) Both

Personally I prefer the third one........I think it's important that we consider Lightning's gunblade as being very different from Squall's (maybe even not the same weapon) since they are from completely different worlds.

[Kyreaan]

Who says that? They are completly wrong. Of course it shoots bullets, thats why its a GUNblade. So the point of it having a barrel and trigger is so that bullets placed within that barrel are fired once the trigger is pulled. There would be no sense in making the blade vibrate. You are right to think it is odd, because gunblades in fact, fire bullets.

I think you guys pretty much covered everything. I was like they wanted to come up with something new and might have been running out of ideas. However, the idea was not original in concept. Many rifles during wars had their weapons attached. There were both knives and bayonets attached to the rifle. This was made for the movie-like scenes as well as the limit abilities.

I wish they did more with Quistis and Squall. Bullets and whips should have came with more elemental junction abilities. Other than that, I would have liked to see more combos that involved moves before the gun shot. It would have been nice if one character in either VIII or XIII had a separate gun and sword dual-wielding. How many different games in the series did you see the gun in one hand?

Personally, I would have loved to see Squall wield a racket from the FF Crystal Chronicles Gypsy race. He could have shot Psionic bolts that way -,-.

[Yoko]

It would have nice if one character in either VIII or XIII had a separate gun and sword dual-wielding. How many different games in the series did you see the gun in one hand?

This. They were too closed minded with Squall's character. At least with Lightning, get abilities vary to match her personality. That's what I think anyway. Squall just did the same thing over and over.

Basically, either:

1) Squall's gunblade fires bullets from a distance, though it is really really inaccurate and only effective at close range since it doesn't have a barrel
2)The gun part is only fired to cause more damage with the explosion of the gunpowder/vibrations of the blade when the bullet glances off the notch you can see the barrel sitting in
3) Both

Personally I prefer the third one........I think it's important that we consider Lightning's gunblade as being very different from Squall's (maybe even not the same weapon) since they are from completely different worlds.

Wha? We beat this theory to death up there and proved it. I don't think I need to explain this again.

[jenova666]

Wha? We beat this theory to death up there and proved it. I don't think I need to explain this again.

I'm agreeing that it shoots bullets, I'm just saying there may be other factors that make it more effective at close range. The positioning of the exit hole for the bullet inside the notch of the blade shows that the projectile has to hit the blade before anything else (see the picture you posted). If you get sliced by a sword that's just been hit by a powerful bullet, isn't it reasonable to think that it might do more damage than a normal blade? See the link I posted way up there.

[ZenMonkey59]

Who says that? They are completly wrong. Of course it shoots bullets, thats why its a GUNblade. So the point of it having a barrel and trigger is so that bullets placed within that barrel are fired once the trigger is pulled. There would be no sense in making the blade vibrate. You are right to think it is odd, because gunblades in fact, fire bullets.

It doesn't shoot like a gun. The barrel runs the length of the blade in FFVIII, and makes the blade vibrate.

From FFWIKI:

"The Final Fantasy VIII Gunblades could not actually fire projectiles."

"In Final Fantasy VIII, all forms of Gunblade consist of some sort of sword blade with some type of gun action built into the hilt, with its barrel running inside the length of the blade. They are mostly used like normal swords, but triggering a round sends a shockwave through the blade, creating a vibration as the weapon passes through an opponent to increase damage."

In Dissidia they shoot, and in FFXIII they shoot. They don't fire bullets at enemies in FFVIII.

[jenova666]

Exactly! The point is, I think they could still be effective at very close range. Otherwise, it kind of takes the excitement out of the "gun" in gunblade.

[markandrewkinzett]

Gunblades are cool and it is common sense to me of course it fires bullets otherwise it would be called a Blade or Sword and not a Gunblade duh!!!

[Kyreaan]

It's also a video game. We've covered this already. Have any of you tried talking to a gun smith?

[TheNiteAngel]

I mean it is true that it is a video game and that things can work in really any way that the creators see fit. However, for the sake of this, I like to believe that the shot serves to intensify the strike, heat the blade and possibly discharge a smaller projectile. Years ago, when I first played, I thought that the sword being in the way somehow split the bullet and those fragments would angle into the larger target in the way of the blade. Maybe that's not the most realistic thing in the world but it is Final Fantasy

[jenova666]

Since it's such a unique weapon, I think the main thing is that its cut is more powerful than a normal sword's.............and it shoots something.

[ZenMonkey59]

Yes, it IS a video game. The weapon works however the creator wants it too. For FFVIII, they designed gunblades that don't fire projectiles.

There is no arguing this point. It's a fact. This is like arguing about what color the sky is.

[TheNiteAngel]

Yes, it IS a video game. The weapon works however the creator wants it too. For FFVIII, they designed gunblades that don't fire projectiles.

There is no arguing this point. It's a fact. This is like arguing about what color the sky is.

Hold on though... You are assuming that the information on a wiki is completely correct. I have no problem using wikis for information as long as you transfer references for things that are not already common knowledge. The fact that there are at least three other forums with threads like this means that it is in fact not common knowledge. You will note the the ffwiki page for gunblades has only 2 references and neither is to any piece on info concerning a firing mechanism. Tetsuya Nomura designed the gunblade. That is a confirmable fact-based statement. It is not a fact that the creators of Final Fantasy VIII designed gunblades not to fire projectiles.

As far as I can see, there's no harm in a few interested fans debating their interpretations of what I see as a very cool concept even if unrealistic.

[Judge Magistrate]

Hold on though... You are assuming that the information on a wiki is completely correct. I have no problem using wikis for information as long as you transfer references for things that are not already common knowledge. The fact that there are at least three other forums with threads like this means that it is in fact not common knowledge. You will note the the ffwiki page for gunblades has only 2 references and neither is to any piece on info concerning a firing mechanism. Tetsuya Nomura designed the gunblade. That is a confirmable fact-based statement. It is not a fact that the creators of Final Fantasy VIII designed gunblades not to fire projectiles.

As far as I can see, there's no harm in a few interested fans debating their interpretations of what I see as a very cool concept even if unrealistic.

It's not as unrealistic as you think. I talked to someone about the gunblade and if it could shoot. They said yes, if it was built a certain way than it most definitely work.

[ZenMonkey59]

Hold on though... You are assuming that the information on a wiki is completely correct. I have no problem using wikis for information as long as you transfer references for things that are not already common knowledge. The fact that there are at least three other forums with threads like this means that it is in fact not common knowledge. You will note the the ffwiki page for gunblades has only 2 references and neither is to any piece on info concerning a firing mechanism. Tetsuya Nomura designed the gunblade. That is a confirmable fact-based statement. It is not a fact that the creators of Final Fantasy VIII designed gunblades not to fire projectiles.

As far as I can see, there's no harm in a few interested fans debating their interpretations of what I see as a very cool concept even if unrealistic.

Despite its name, it cannot not be used as an actual gun, meaning it doesn't fire projectiles, and can therefore only be used in melee combat, making it more like a gun supplementing a sword than a blade supplementing a firearm, e.g. a bayonet on a rifle. The firing of the Gunblade's rounds induces a tremor in the blade, causing it to deal additional damage to whatever it strikes.

Alright then, let's say that the FF Wiki it not a reliable source of information.

Let's just look at the game itself. Show me one scene in FFVIII where someone wielding a gunblade shoots someone with it without slicing into them. Also, show me on the gunblade itself where a projectile could possible emerge from the gun.

In FFXIII, you can see that the blade folds up, and becomes a gun, with a barrel. The FFVIII gun blades contain no such feature.