Brotherhood of Doom v. The Masters: Open Q&A

[ToroMor]

As I was informed, Fuzz did appoint a new judge and the verdict is probably under construction! I hope that an official announcement will come soon.

[Fuzz]

Hello All -

First may I apologize for the delay and inconvenience your club and war thread have been experiencing over the last few months. I hate making loyal TFF members mad and upset, so please accept my sincere apologies!

Due to unforeseen circumstances Cesar has fallen into over the last few months, I shall apoint Toph Bei Fong as the official Judge for this war. This is an Official appointment. If anything shall change, it will be only confirmed and announced by me. I hope this can clear up some confusion and allow for the judging process to continue smoothly. Thanks again for your patience and cooperation, and good luck!

[Prodigal Madness]

As I'm sure some know, just so you now ALL know, I've been helping Toph with judging. Mainly due to being declined for being biased in favor of BoD, but also to help things go along.

We've completed two battles for sure, and both agree on the decision for them. We've nearly finished with a third, which will be done almost immediately tomorrow. We also hope to have a fourth done by tomorrow night. Ideally, we'll have the last two done within two days, though as they're the "bigger" ones it may take a day longer. I'd honestly say no more than 3 days for final judgment to be decided upon.

I know certain people have been eager for results, while some want only the final answer. If you'd like to know the ones done thus far, and the results, I'd be happy to give a name and a brief explanation as to why - though Toph will be posting the final results and the information as to why.



Two additional things. IM'ing me on MSN is fine(on that more than this), and I'm only biased towards a single combatant, though I know they'd VERY much be unhappy with me if that's why I was trying to get them to win - so no worries on that. I'd rather they lose and not be pissed with me, to be honest. =/ Well, just felt I should include that tid bit.

[ToroMor]

I fully trust in Fuzz' decision to nominate Toph and I am sure that we will get a fair verdict. Sounds like a good idea to have a co-judge help, as long as the final decision stays with Toph. Thanks for that, Prodigal. I would very much like to receive the outcome of the finished duels, perhaps you could send me PMs to keep me updated? I promise I won't spoil anything. Finally, I want to say thank you once more to Fuzz and Toph. You saved us from this endless misery. Finally: some sweet, some bitter, we can gather the grapes of war!

[Prodigal Madness]

I'll go write up some stuff for you right now. Should be done within 15-20 mins, though it'll be more basics as I'd prefer Toph to give the detailed version.

Toph is judging all of them before me, aside for Lucid/Nin's. I then go over them with Toph's notes and just point out bits and pieces, then give my opinion on it. Toph does have final say, though we're trying to not completely disagree on the verdicts. Lucid/Nin's was a bit confusing to Toph, so I laid out the notes on that for Toph to review. Been trying to keep it to at least one per day, to make sure it's done right. I'm sure a good result is better than a rushed one that no one agrees with. That being said, I hope people aren't going to be crying they lost(from EITHER side), as someone does have to lose each battle.


Another side note! Shit, this is tiring work to read, form opinions, comment/leave notes, and then discuss it!

[Sir Kenneth]

If a consultant is what it takes to make everyone happy with the process, then noone's going to hear a bad word about it from me either.

[ToroMor]

Just to be sure, I want to point out that we have special rules for the judgment (see the corresponding thread). But I'm sure you are well aware of it. It was a main concern of all participants to focus on writing skills, character incorporation and continuity.

[Victoria]

...Yeah... I just.. looked at that right now. *cough* >_>;;
But taking that stuff into account pretty much gives me a good boost on who I choose to win in certain battles that had a box opened up on them. *cough*

Now. Going by these three points:

* Flow: your ability to work with not only your opponent, but yourself as well, to produce the smoothest storyline possible
* Creativity: your ability to utilize your opponent's weaknesses, your own strengths, and your environment to your advantage
* Continuity/Precision: your ability to maintain an able-minded view of where everything is, and your location within the battlegrounds (ex: you drop your weapon at Point X in post 3, but you pick it up at Point Y in post 5... you better have a damn good explanation for how it moved from Point X to Point Y)

Let's see here. I'll just say there's ONE battle left. And that's Toro vs Anomaly. When I'm done with that, I'll post who I think are the winners. Now, whatever the results may be, I do not want to hear any complaining whatsoever. Do you have any slight idea of how frustrating it was to judge this whole entire thing? Especially when some people BROKE the SUPER DODGING RULE.

Okay. I understand that people do not want to take damage. But if you dodge every freaking thing thrown at you, then there is something wrong. And also in the other aspect, if you take everything thrown at you and somehow you're still fine and dandy and write it off like it was nothing and regrow your limbs or reattach your body or something of the sort... there is also something wrong. They are both forms of super dodging/injury negating.

I know this is an overpowered war battle, but please, work with me here a little bit, will you please, people.... My sanity and temper cords are very thin right now and the slightest provocation will not be very wise... ...On second thought... I think I'm broken... but that's okay.. I'm fine.. really...I just may be slightly more.. sadistic than normal...heheh.

I just hope and wish that this entire thing will be taken calmly and professionally, because honestly I DO want to discuss the finer details of battle with you all, if there happened to be any type of arguments.

However, I will not accept this certain type of argument: An ability/technique was used that was not on someone's list. Well. If the person bringing this issue up doesn't even HAVE a list in their profile, then they have nothing to speak of, because it is hypocritical.

Thank you. And please keep in mind throughout the whole ordeal, I am completely unbiased and only going by Total Overall Writing Skill of the combatants. I'm very different when it comes to reading/judging something. I like to be entertained. I like things to be nice and followed...

I may be saying too much by now... but I am very very drained... and can honestly see why Cesar has dropped out. But I do not drop out. I finish the whole thing even though I might become insane in the process. That's how thorough I am with something, even though I may be distracted and take longer. But I still finish it.

With that said. I will cool off my head. And finish the last thread.

e_e Doitsumo Koitsumo....

[Zephyr]

Thank you for doing this, Toph. To be honest, I'd given up all hope of seeing this reach a satisfactory conclusion, but I'm glad to see things turned out differently.

But that is the past. Now is the time to look to the future! I know we all wait excitedly for your verdict, and now - more than ever - it seems within arms-reach. And this is good!

To the victors, whoever they may be, good game.

[Victoria]

Update: I'm feeling much better now, and am now judging Toromor vs Anomaly.
Very interested in reading this epic battle. After this, everything will be done, I just need confirmation from Akira about something.

Which is the true form of "Akira"? The demon in the sword, or the guy carrying the sword?

Get back to me as soon as possible, your loss/victory depends on it. (OOPS I SPOILED)

[Victoria]

Double Post for GREAT JUSTICE!

Akira contacted me and cleared things up. So that's out of the way. Still doing Toro vs Anomaly, though. It's quite epic, so it'll take a bit of time.

[Prodigal Madness]

As I said, it takes quite a bit to kill a demon-god compared to a standard warrior, so therefore, at the point of summoning, Akira inherits these powers. Tthe fact that Akira "appeared" to be dead was merely part of the show; I think that's what's causing the main confusion here - he is in fact NOT dead, despite me expressly stating so, but as I said, that is part of the show. I was hoping that the illusion of death wouldn't be such a lingering fact as long as the arrival of the beast made a continuation of the fight apparent.

Furthermore, no where did I state that Akira's soul and being are dead. I merely said Akira had been stricken down. But that is before I revealed the importance of the incantation he had uttered prior. Again, I stress the fact that the illusion of death was part of the show, basically, as if you had watched it with your own eyes, you would have thought "that guy is surely dead". If I had immediately stated, "he had been charred to a crisp and was seemingly dead, but luckily an ancient evil had been summoned", that, I'm sure you can agree, would have made the battle very lame. I meant to reveal to the reader, only that which he needs to know at any certain moment.

Which should have been put in an OoC, or mentioned. Judges are to judge based by the actual posts. If you post saying something happened, and didn't bother mentioning that it didn't happen, then it's to be judged as that happened. I think I've been judging unbiased, but apparently I have no say so in any of the war, and Toph will judge based on comments outside the battle as well.

Like greedy rats, they ripped themselves upon the lifeless dark lord, feeding on his soul and last morsels of remaining energy, each merging with the helpless silhouette of the fallen warrior until the essence of blackness blanketed every last inch.

To point out, "LIFELESS", and the demons feeding on his soul... I'm unsure how feeding on his soul was intended to be his soul is still there and fine after multiple beings just ate it...

Several people were asked to clarify things when their posts were confusing. The post is not confusing. Akira is called lifeless, and demons had fed on his soul. I would loved to have seen a "seemed lifeless" or an OoC explaining he lived...but that's not what it says. =/

Anyway, just wanted to say that. No offense to TM, but it honestly didn't matter to me if they lost or won. Just wanted to see things finished right.

[Victoria]

Yeah, okay. Thanks for being a blabbermouth and quoting a PM. Honestly I don't want your help anymore. You're hindering more than helping. The only thing you helped with was Nin vs Lucid.

No, writers don't have to write a literal thing that happens. Haven't you ever heard of suspense? Or thrill? That's what that was. Please, stop trying to create unnecessary drama.

I don't care if Anomaly says I'm invalid without your help, I'm still giving my opinions on this regardless.

Honestly. I know you said "what you write is what happens"... but that's not entirely true. You do have a point, but sometimes what you see, isn't actually what's happening.

eg: Gandalf

You saw that Gandalf died. You saw him come back. You read that he died, and you read that he came back. It's the same thing. Akira activated the release BEFORE the attacks hit him, so therefore he had the strength/power/whatever of Jin by then. And if you continue to read the post, his body is still there, and transforms into the beast.

You say the post was not confusing. ....to you. I am not you. You are not I. The post was indeed confusing to me. Hence I asked for clarification. Because indeed, Judges are too, readers. So they sometimes pick up things meant for readers. Which is what happened to me.

I say what Akira did is pretty valid at this point. Read a few suspense/thriller novels, honestly. >_>; The type of writing he did was valid. I was just confused.


And you honestly should have PM'd this to me. Seriously. By now... you're really not helping me by leaking everything to TM, and being an overall blabbermouth of my results.

Writing isn't always logical, you know. Fantasy rejects logic a lot of times. And this is a war with overpowered characters, so obviously normal things aren't going to happen. I've taken that into account since the very beginning.

[Lucid]

Or leaking things to the BoD for that matter... >_>

[Prodigal Madness]

Here's where I become the asshole! :O

You could not understand a thing from Nin/Lucid, and I push you to keep the dates agreed on for finishing the war...and help/give pointers when you ask. Damn right I'm hindering!

You judge on what is written. Did you SEE Gandalf die? NO. You see him falling. When he comes back(in the book/movie) he says he fought with it as they fell. I believe it was something on the scale of DAYS. They land in an underground lake. Gandalf says he thought he died(in truth, Gandalf the GRAY died). He was, if you look up the lore, what is basically an angel and ascends into godhood, by becoming a Valar - WHICH is why he cannot directly take action in the War and is why his mere presence scares off the Nazgul...

I want this done right, and you're judging on material outside the battle. That's wrong. If you've forgotten, here's from the PM before that even:

This instance details the moment exactly, right before Akira was struck by the arrows. It was added to explain the reason for his death NOT being the actual end of battle. I meant this to show the coherrancy of the afore mentioned information, as to avoid any confusion. Judging from your misinterpretation, I seem to have done the exact opposite.

Right after this section of the post, my character actually gets "killed". However, since he has summoned the Jin monster already, he consequently inherits said creatures superhuman strengths. Of course the Jin is not invincible, however, he is considerably more resistant than your average would-be warrior. He is an archaic evil stemming from the beginnings of time and space afterall./

That's why you were denied for being biased before. You're using what you want to judge, and not doing it right/fairly. -_-



And as for Lucid, as long as Toph is judging fairly, telling the BoD results early doesn't matter. It doesn't change the results. =/
And besides, WTF does a book/movie have to do with judging a written tourny...?

[Victoria]

Hmm. Note how I noted your help with Nin/Lucid.

Hmm. Note how many days have passed. Yes. You pushed me. ^_^

Actually, it does change the results, because you are well aware that the BOD complained that Neko won. And actually no, I'm not using what I want. I'm not being biased. You can be assured of that.

Regardless if I'm accepted by Anomaly or not, I'm still posting my results. I'm writing them in my own blog in case you have forgotten.

So, anyway. And actually it would be wiser to ask the posters what they mean in their posts, so everything is clear. Judging is not done on what is provided.

If I had done it by your method, do you know how much bloody drama that would have created, because I didn't listen to anyone? Just because I am clarified on what they mean, doesn't mean I undo the marks I took off.

Also remember, the first time I judged, I did it TOA style. I admit I didn't read the Q&A fully, nor the rules thread, until Toro pointed the special rules. At which point I remembered, so I re-did everything from scratch, using the correct criteria.

I have no idea why that brings about bias.

But anyway. Thanks for your feedback~

Oh, by the way. Your assistance wasn't hindering. Your leaking was. Your leaking, believe it or not, caused all of this. If you hadn't leaked anything to anyone at any time, I could have had my own results the way I originally had, without taking into account anything, (can you believe i missed the edit the first time through? oh yes, it was possible.) then there would be no drama right now to speak of.

Believe it~

[Prodigal Madness]

Akira admits to dying, then says he never did such a thing(after YOU say his victory/loss depends on it) and it was all for show. You take it as for show, despite the post says he died and Akira admitted to dying... You wonder about bias when he already explained he died, and yet you seem to have entirely ignored that?

I never said don't listen to anyone, I had even told you to ask people for clarification... However Akira's post needed no clarification, and after getting one that confirmed what you/we had thought/known...you apparently asked for yet another and got an entirely different answer and went with that.

And yeah, I did tell Toro, as was told you were telling BoD anyway and had mentioned your blog and anyone could go see it. How is that leaking...?

I'm done now with posting/e-drama'ing. Proved you lied and redid things to get a different answer from what you already got, then ignored previous answers. :3 Don't lie on the net, it leaves proof.

Edit: And when I told Toro, I asked YOU for the ok if I could tell him the results of what we'd completed so far since much of BoD had posted saying that they wanted even just names of winners so they could see results. So...again, that's on your shoulders anyway.

[Victoria]

I don't remember Akira ever admitting to dying, ever. Where was this? (I honestly have never seen this at all, ever. Forward it to me if it exists.

However, Akira's post did need clarification. I said so didn't I? You didn't need it, but I did. (Where in his PMs does he say he dies? He's just explaining the "death". I think you take things way too literally. Even more than me.)

Yes. Anyone can see my blog right here: http://tba.animewish.net Believe it~
Oh, I'm sorry, were you expecting the results to be there? Sorry to disappoint.

Um.. where did I lie? This is the internet, really. ...Lies cannot be determined through text.

Yes. But then, I had only...one or two. Which didn't really matter at that point in time. But when nearly everything is said and done, and when one side had already been declared a winner, and you go and leak that, that is what is hindering. That is what I do not appreciate.

After all, I am the official judge. You are just a tag along.

And yes, they did say that. ....For C-C-C-C-C-Cesar's Results. Not mine.

Believe it~
---------------------------------------------------
Edit: Ah~, thank you for this message. However...

http://thefinalfantasy.net/forums/sh...27&postcount=7

Um, yeah.. in your battle, you like.. died and stuff, and like.. your profile doesn't particularly mention being able to be possessed even though your body/soul don't exist anymore...and if it was a summon, summons shouldn't like, exist after the summoner dies and stuff..

So like.. I kind of want to clear things up, or even ask if you and Prophet worked on the entire RPB together and whatnot...

That'd be a great help, thanks. Because, you know.. if you didn't work on it together, you'd like.. you know...lose because you died and stuff, seeing.. as dying decides the whole thing?

I mean like.. you should've been near dead, not dead.. >_>;



Anyway, would be a great help if you could clear things up. xD;

I guess the main point creating a bit of confusion here is my vagueness in the mention of the extent of Jin's powers. This was meant for a reason however. Not so I could randomly interpret into the character what I wanted on the fly, but rather because the character is indeed an evolving element of my BoD character. However, if you re-read a certain part of my posts, you shall see that everything is quite coherant. Let me ellaborate:

In this post, just before being struck down by the arrows, my character initiates the summon (this is before dying mind you). Here is the quote of what's relevant in that post:

As Prophet flicked his wrist, Akira saw the arrows change from their lifeless floating state to the one he had released them in. The whistling sound the projectiles made was unbearable as they screamed towards their victim, who had but a mere moment’s notice to react. Rather than trying to dodge the sting of the flying beasts, Akira held his sword outward as his lips quickly moved, silently murmuring something.

Right after this section of the post, my character actually gets "killed". However, since he has summoned the Jin monster already, he consequently inherits said creatures superhuman strengths. Of course the Jin is not invincible, however, he is considerably more resistant than your average would-be warrior. He is an archaic evil stemming from the beginnings of time and space afterall.

I also reference you to this part in that same post:

Akira’s image shot through Prophet’s mind, detailing the moment shortly before Akira had been struck by his own arrow fire. Akira’s pulsing lips as they uttered something became more and more impregnated in Prophet’s mind.

“Haraguroi Tenno, reikon wo hakaishin, yami ni sumushin, omae wo yobidasu. Shutsugenshiyo! Jin-sama!”
“Dark Lord, Destroyer of Souls, you who dwells in the darkness, I summon you. Come forth, Jin!”

This instance details the moment exactly, right before Akira was struck by the arrows. It was added to explain the reason for his death NOT being the actual end of battle. I meant this to show the coherrancy of the afore mentioned information, as to avoid any confusion. Judging from your misinterpretation, I seem to have done the exact opposite.

To sum it up, Akira summons Jin right before his "death", rather than try and parry the arrow attack. He is gambling in a sense. Since Jin basically represents my super power boost up (for which I also waited the designated amount of posts before initiating), I don't feel that I have broken the rules in any way. If my opponent can heal ALL his wounds in one swooft move, why can I not summon the monster that grants my character the powers that he has in the first place.

If there is still some unclarity, I will gladly clear it up. Just tell me what parts still seemed vague, if any.

And again, thanks for saving this war! Without your efforts and hardwork, this whole thing would have been lost in obscurity.

Psst. Couldn't see the quotes? Quotes usually mean emphasis, only appear as such, or sarcasm. At least.. last I checked.

(And no, this is not bias. This is just.. ridiculous.)

[Prodigal Madness]

It was added to explain the reason for his death NOT being the actual end of battle.

He even flat out says Akira dies and the battle isn't intended to end there.

I understand though. You ask for details, and the response is entirely sarcastic! Then when you threaten losing the battle if not explained(for a second time...) he changes his story to that he was never killed and alive the whole time.

A complete and utter misunderstanding on my part.

http://thefinalfantasy.net/forums/sh...3&postcount=13

I do not appreciate being slandered. If TM was to lose, they'd lose honorably. My intention was to have the war done(FINALLY), and to have it done *RIGHT*. Me confirming everything with you, then being blamed for shit is just that - SHIT.





Hey Bryan, read your journal? All I had to do was look at the last couple to find a post in which you do more than a bit worse than calling one person an asshole.

[Bryan 2.0]

I just want to back up Toph here, at least as far as I know anything about this. At least as far as spilling results goes.

I've spoken to him on MSN a few times since he started judging. Keep in mind that I'm not even a participant in this battle and he still told me nothing when I asked him who was winning so far.

Also, PM, you need to tone it down with the insults. Stating your opinion is one thing, but I just read your latest journal entry and I saw a few things that crossed the line. I understand that it's your journal, but let it not be confused as a place to insult people and get away with it. Openly calling someone an asshole would be considered flaming, which is against the rules of the forum.

I'm not warning you. I'm just giving you a heads up.

[ToroMor]

-- delete me --

[ToroMor]

Scratch my last post. Actually, EVERYONE should be STRICTLY EXCLUDED from the judgement process, except for the judge himself. It turned out to be a bad idea to have anyone comment on it.

Well it looks like at the moment the winners will be the team that bitches and sways Toph's decision the most

Is this the spirit in which we want to finish our epic battle? Then, we would disgrace ourselves. Are we a bunch of kids or are we respectable warriors?

To the brave fighters
I don't know if this applies to anyone of us at all, but I want to express it anyway. If we stand in honor and accept victory or death with unbroken pride, we all win. If we argue and bicker, we all lose. We should have the balls to await the verdict bold and quiet.

To the judge
I strongly suggest to listen to no one at all. Do your judging, to the best of your ability and in unaffected fairness, and it shall be definite. Make sure that no one influenced your decision, and no bickering and no complaints shall be heard.

To everyone else
Stop interfering with the judging and stop posting here. It's not your business.

[Akira]

^ Which is why I have completely refrained from posting here. Toph had a question about my posts, I clarified, and that's that. I told him that he should choose the winner depending on who he feels is the greater warrior. I have no intention of swaying anybody. I think since Fuzz did not appoint Prodigal Madness as co-judge, he should be explicitly removed from the war or anything concerning the war at all. The only bit of swaying I am seeing here is PM's excessive argumenting and insulting to try and force a certain verdict.

Since when does burocracy determine battles?! I think we shouldn't start today...

[ToroMor]

^That's the spirit. I believe that all warriors are equally stainless in their honor.

Probably it was my fault to give the co-judging a try in the first place.
I was too worried about getting a verdict at all so I was gladly accepting anyone that would assist in this deed. Obviously, I was wrong.

[Zardoch]

I think since Fuzz did not appoint Prodigal Madness as co-judge, he should be explicitly removed from the war or anything concerning the war at all. The only bit of swaying I am seeing here is PM's excessive argumenting and insulting to try and force a certain verdict.

Actually, nobody appointed PM at all. Anomaly didn't, Fuzz didn't, and Toph didn't really agree to it in the first place. PM just decided to jump in all on his own and so far, NOBODY is liking his decision [in either club's by the way]. I must agree with Akira's proposal to remove him from the war entirely to stop this pointless bickering. We want to end this war on a high note, which means no drama.

Anyone else who wishes the same speak up.

[Zephyr]

I'm afraid I must agree. We could have had this thing over and done with, but due to PM's excessive meddling, this has really dragged out. Wanting to help is one thing, but keeping the judge from her work with constant arguments and pointless bickering is a different thing entirely. PM, you were never helping in any official capacity, so you should consider it an honour that Toph even listened to your opinions. Don't blow your importance out of proportion, is all I'm saying. And could you please stop acting like a spoilt, petulant child? You are still a member of The Masters, and that kind of behaviour is unacceptable.

I didn't want to say anything, but I have. I just hope that this can be settled without any further drama.

[Sir Kenneth]

Initially I did think that it was a good idea that everyone could inquire about the results so far, and perhaps add their own 2 cents if they wanted to. We, the warriors, have afterall read those threads over and over again and could perhaps point out elements that the judge would otherwise have missed. In hindsight, it would probably have been better had the judgement remained completely hidden until a final verdict was posted.

[Victoria]

Yeah. Ryuujin hit the nail on the head. My honest feelings were that I didn't agree to it, but I just sighed, and said "If you must."

So, right now, PM's not helping me anymore. (Doubt he would anyway after all of this drama) And I am not going to be swayed by anyone, nor have I been at all.

All I've done at this point, was inquire people about confusing parts of their posts, that have broken my reading flow. Obviously, I mark them off for the flow aspect of the criteria, because they did break it.

And I will tell you, give me about half an hour, and I will have all of my results ready for viewing. Whether you choose to accept them or not is up to you. I couldn't care less, because I wanted to give my own feedback regardless. My comments in my results may be at some points vague, and if you want higher detail, I'll go into it after they're all done.

Note that I did not count grammar/spelling errors, because in the criteria, they are not graded unless they are really really bad that I cannot understand what is going on. So if you wish for me to expand on this subject, I will be glad to.

[Lucid]

On behalf of The Masters, I'd like to apologize to everyone involved in this drama for the trouble our oh-so-beloved member, Prodigal Madness, has caused.

[Victoria]

Yeah... It's been 2 hours since I said half an hour.

1. I was eating breakfast and talking to Ryuujin for 20 minutes.
2. Played a couple rounds of Melty Blood with a friend online.
3. Here we are now. I am eating toast and reading the battle.
4. Anomaly broke Toromor's hammer. ...The rules don't say anything about weapons being broken without consent, so...either it's common sense that they are an extension of a person, or it's allowed... Anyway. Continuing on.