A Little Help Here Please (Possible Spoilers)

[GranFran]

Okay all, I've just reached Taejin's Tower and am not at all happy with my party's poor performance in battle getting here, so thought I'd ask the experts for a bit of advice..

I'm using Light, Hope and Fang and up until we hit Sulyya Springs, I thought we were doing fairly well.. But there the differences in monster strength is quite, er, remarkable, shall we say.. The first group of those pink lizard things wiped the mossy ground with my party like I hadn't just spend hours grinding back in the previous zone to max out their crystal tiers!

Now, having barely managed to stay alive in the encounters with SINGLE opponents before reaching the tower, I realized I'm in deep doodoo here..

What to do, what to do? I bought the accessories to help power them up like the guide said to do but they didn't help much, just to kill those two beasties at the front door of the tower took forever and gave me zero stars..

I feel I've not done something right here.. How can they be maxed out in their Crystarium tiers the guide suggests for them (Light-Ravager, Hope-Medic and Fang-Sentinel) and still have so much trouble killing anything in a quick and timely fashion.. Are there other people out there like me who are somewhat in shock of how poorly they are doing with their fighting skills?

Oh, my weapons, I've upgraded them a little.. Lightning has Axis Blade, Lv.6,
Hope, Airwing Lv.7 and Fang, Pandora Spear Lv.5.. The guide keeps telling me not to worry too much at this point about leveling weapons as there will be plenty of opportunity to farm for necessary upgrade items later in the game..

So, I'd love some help and advice here, if I'm at the top tiers for them via the guide's instructions why can't they seem to do better in fighting.. One thing is certain, I've never died so much in a FF game as I have in this one.. Thank God for 'Retry'..

[Andromeda]

Those lizards will always give you a bit of trouble due to the way they are. The best way to deal with them quickly is put haste on and use the en-spell that they weak against as well as debuff them up some. But if I remember right when I ran through on my first time I was never able to get them to stagger before killing them due to having a high stagger limit.

How much have you been using Synergist and Sabeteur? From this point in the game you won't be able to get by without making use of them constantly. Sazh should have Haste at this point so I'd suggest having him in your party. I actually ran with Lightning, Sazh and Fang, but I also made sure to have Sazh learn Cure in the Medic role so that I could have two Medics.

[GranFran]

Those lizards will always give you a bit of trouble due to the way they are. The best way to deal with them quickly is put haste on and use the en-spell that they weak against as well as debuff them up some. But if I remember right when I ran through on my first time I was never able to get them to stagger before killing them due to having a high stagger limit.

How much have you been using Synergist and Sabeteur? From this point in the game you won't be able to get by without making use of them constantly. Sazh should have Haste at this point so I'd suggest having him in your party. I actually ran with Lightning, Sazh and Fang, but I also made sure to have Sazh learn Cure in the Medic role so that I could have two Medics.

Well, I'm not using Sazh, but Hope.. I've been using Delta Attack and Solidarity almost entirely and, after getting a couple of the creatures killed, switching over to Diversity..

Andi, what were your weapons like when you reached this point? Had you done any upgrading by this time? I mean these Paradigms are getting me by, but it's taking me FOREVER to kill them.. For instance, those 3 Pulsework Gladiators took me 10 minutes, 50 seconds.. Needless to say, I didn't get any stars for that battle..

If I switch Hope out and put in Sazh for Haste, that only leaves Light for healing, but since he is at the top of the Synergist tier I could use all those CP's to set him up in medical.. But that means he won't have any points to spend on the next Synergist tier when it comes time for it to open.. Oh well, I really need to do something to help this poor, sorry group of people along, so I'll make him a healer too.. Thanks hon..

[Andromeda]

I did very little on upgrading my weapons. About all I ended up doing was upgrading Fang weapons into the 20s, but the gains you get won't really mean a lot. You'd be better off upgrading a strength accessory and transforming it.

You won't need to spend too many points on getting Cure. Just stop when you learn Cure and that'll be enough. You should only have to spent about 15k CP on that. Once Sazh learns Cure that'll be enough. Focus on your main three roles in the Crystarium until they are completely finished. The main three roles will give you your largest boosts for loss CP cost, the extra three will never be able to compete with the cost to boost ratio you get out of them.

Just make sure Sazh's Synergist has a lot of the buff spells, especially Haste. Just keep in mind that once you have Haste on the game speeds up a lot. If you're used to selecting all of your stuff yourself then you'll probably find that the meter is full and the character will be waiting on your action. Once you reach Haste auto-battle tends to be a more smart way to play unless you want something very specific and can do it really fast, because you'll loss all of the extra time you're gaining by using Haste. So just keep that in mind, the speed increase can be a little jarring at first.

It is usually best to use a Ravager x2 and Commando pairing for your primary offense Paradigm and then you can change to Commando x2 and Ravager when an enemy is staggered. If you move in Sazh you can actually do Commando x3 which can be very good at killing things fast once they are stagger so you may want to try that out. At the point in the game you're at everyone still only has their 3 roles more or less. So changing one character out for another will make significant changes and open up new possibilities. Experiment is good to find something that suits your style.

[GranFran]

I did very little on upgrading my weapons. About all I ended up doing was upgrading Fang weapons into the 20s, but the gains you get won't really mean a lot. You'd be better off upgrading a strength accessory and transforming it.

You won't need to spend too many points on getting Cure. Just stop when you learn Cure and that'll be enough. You should only have to spent about 15k CP on that. Once Sazh learns Cure that'll be enough. Focus on your main three roles in the Crystarium until they are completely finished. The main three roles will give you your largest boosts for loss CP cost, the extra three will never be able to compete with the cost to boost ratio you get out of them.

Just make sure Sazh's Synergist has a lot of the buff spells, especially Haste. Just keep in mind that once you have Haste on the game speeds up a lot. If you're used to selecting all of your stuff yourself then you'll probably find that the meter is full and the character will be waiting on your action. Once you reach Haste auto-battle tends to be a more smart way to play unless you want something very specific and can do it really fast, because you'll loss all of the extra time you're gaining by using Haste. So just keep that in mind, the speed increase can be a little jarring at first.

It is usually best to use a Ravager x2 and Commando pairing for your primary offense Paradigm and then you can change to Commando x2 and Ravager when an enemy is staggered. If you move in Sazh you can actually do Commando x3 which can be very good at killing things fast once they are stagger so you may want to try that out. At the point in the game you're at everyone still only has their 3 roles more or less. So changing one character out for another will make significant changes and open up new possibilities. Experiment is good to find something that suits your style.

Yes, I stopped Sazh at cure, considering the ridiculous cost of going any further.. I have been doing some upgrading on my strength accessories like the Brawler and Warrior, but only until Lv 5 or so.. I have my Paradigms set up the way you describe now so I'm going to go in and try some more.. Keep your fingers crossed for me.. I'll let you know how it turns out.. Thanks so much for your help..

[Andromeda]

The strength accessory will hit their limit at lv 11 if I remember right. So once that happens you can transform them. Being on Gran Pulse you should have enough to upgrade some into Warrior or Warrior beyond which I think is Scarilite (spelling), though I wouldn't spend too many. Just know that Warrior goes from 100 to 180 at cap and then next one Power Glove goes from 200 to 250. So you can get a pretty good boost from that.

With your current party doing Medic x2 and Sentinel should be a good healing paradigm for you and all you'll need. Lightning should have Cura and Cure that will help while Sazh just uses Cure.

[Meteo x -9999HP]

Light, Vannille and Sazh.

I open up with Bully (COM+SAB+SYN) if I know I don't need curing while I'm setting my buffs and dispells up.If I know the enemy I'm going in against is way tough then I'll run Evened Odds (MED+SAB+SYN).
With enemies as tough and capable as they are the buffs and dispells are needed no matter what.
After haste (the first auto-cast) I'll let some more buff be added...but no matter what I always jump to Relentless Assault (COM+RAV+RAV)and juggle that into Aggression (COM+RAV+COM).
For aggressive healing I put on Combat Clinic (MED+MED+SEN).
And with me using Sazh all I had to do was teach him Sentinel and Light Cure and I'm good.

Funny thing is, I thought those last few spots for paradigms would open up on their own...I tried it one day and saw I could assign 6!
GAME OVER!

Hadn't had much of a problem since.

[GranFran]

Light, Vannille and Sazh.

I open up with Bully (COM+SAB+SYN) if I know I don't need curing while I'm setting my buffs and dispells up.If I know the enemy I'm going in against is way tough then I'll run Evened Odds (MED+SAB+SYN).
With enemies as tough and capable as they are the buffs and dispells are needed no matter what.
After haste (the first auto-cast) I'll let some more buff be added...but no matter what I always jump to Relentless Assault (COM+RAV+RAV)and juggle that into Aggression (COM+RAV+COM).
For aggressive healing I put on Combat Clinic (MED+MED+SEN).
And with me using Sazh all I had to do was teach him Sentinel and Light Cure and I'm good.

Funny thing is, I thought those last few spots for paradigms would open up on their own...I tried it one day and saw I could assign 6!
GAME OVER!

Hadn't had much of a problem since.

I do have bully assigned but haven't used it much yet, so will try that and see if it helps, I'll do what Andi said too and up my accessories more.. Right now I just finished mission 3 in the tower and seem to be doing okay.. I use Solidarity to start with, switch to Delta then at last to Relentless Assault.. Combat Clinic is always on my list, it's a life saver for sure.. The only thing is, the way I'm playing now it takes forever to end the battle and I never make any stars from them.. But, at least, I'm still alive..

Thanks for the help, don't go far, good people, I'll probably holler again.. I'm certainly not looking forward to this upcoming fight with Barthandelus.. He whooped my ass a lot of times the first time but it's still a ways off..

[Meteo x -9999HP]

Thanks for the help, don't go far, good people, I'll probably holler again.. I'm certainly not looking forward to this upcoming fight with Barthandelus.. He whooped my ass a lot of times the first time but it's still a ways off..

He's a beeotch.
Just stay one step ahead of him.

[GranFran]

He's a beeotch.
Just stay one step ahead of him.

Right now, I can't get Dahaka down.. Just when I think I got the weirdo, he zaps me with something major before I can shift into Combat Clinic and down we all go.. I'm on my 4th try.. Tired, may go to bed and try again tomorrow..

[DragonHeart]

You mention you've maxed out Ravager, Medic and Sentinel for Light, Hope and Fang, but how are you on their other roles? You'd really benefit from Fang's Saboteur abilities, particularly Dispel and Slow, and Light makes a decent backup (but not main) healer. At this point in the game Hope is only decent with his Synergist role and the lack of Haste really starts to hurt right around now if you're not using it a lot. My main party through most of the game was Fang, Hope and Vanille but I ended up switching Hope out for Sazh for quite awhile when the battles got too tough to keep up with otherwise. Hope's low HP also makes him vulnerable to big AoE spells.

You could also try switching your accessories to be more defensive. Dahaka has a nasty status AoE move so any resist accessories you have could be helpful, and HP+ accessories would at least help with Hope's low HP.

Other than that, keep TP handy for Renew or a summon and try using shrouds to get an early jump on him.

~DragonHeart~

[GranFran]

You mention you've maxed out Ravager, Medic and Sentinel for Light, Hope and Fang, but how are you on their other roles? You'd really benefit from Fang's Saboteur abilities, particularly Dispel and Slow, and Light makes a decent backup (but not main) healer. At this point in the game Hope is only decent with his Synergist role and the lack of Haste really starts to hurt right around now if you're not using it a lot. My main party through most of the game was Fang, Hope and Vanille but I ended up switching Hope out for Sazh for quite awhile when the battles got too tough to keep up with otherwise. Hope's low HP also makes him vulnerable to big AoE spells.

You could also try switching your accessories to be more defensive. Dahaka has a nasty status AoE move so any resist accessories you have could be helpful, and HP+ accessories would at least help with Hope's low HP.

Other than that, keep TP handy for Renew or a summon and try using shrouds to get an early jump on him.

~DragonHeart~

I took your advice, hon, and went back, did some more grinding and got my other 2 roles maxed out.. I already am using Sazh for his Haste ability.. I finally defeated dahaka and now have gone back to grinding some in the tower to max out all the little nodules I missed on the outer rings..

I think I should be able to go on to Oerba now, though I'm still not comfortable with weapons and accessories.. I simply am confused by the whole thing.. All those damn items, I don't know which are the best ones to use, which to sell for money and which to save and keep for transforming stuff after they reach their limit.. Heck, I don't even know which weapons and accessories won't upgrade, because someone said some of them can't level up.. Whew, I don't know why Square had to make this part of the game so difficult.. Upgrading has always been something that I considered one of the most fun things to do, but this time I think it's awful.. Probably, if I was better in math, it would be easier.. But that's wishful thinking..

Anyway, thanks so much for your help.. It's greatly appreciated..

You mention you've maxed out Ravager, Medic and Sentinel for Light, Hope and Fang, but how are you on their other roles? You'd really benefit from Fang's Saboteur abilities, particularly Dispel and Slow, and Light makes a decent backup (but not main) healer. At this point in the game Hope is only decent with his Synergist role and the lack of Haste really starts to hurt right around now if you're not using it a lot. My main party through most of the game was Fang, Hope and Vanille but I ended up switching Hope out for Sazh for quite awhile when the battles got too tough to keep up with otherwise. Hope's low HP also makes him vulnerable to big AoE spells.

You could also try switching your accessories to be more defensive. Dahaka has a nasty status AoE move so any resist accessories you have could be helpful, and HP+ accessories would at least help with Hope's low HP.

Other than that, keep TP handy for Renew or a summon and try using shrouds to get an early jump on him.

~DragonHeart~

Got another question for you.. I'm in Oerba and am getting ready to leave.. God, I hate another fight with you know who, but I'm as ready as I'll ever be I guess.. So, to my question, I'm doing a little weapon upgrading and am wondering what does Stagger Lock mean? I'm assuming that it means the ability to stagger a target is unavailable with the weapon? But I'm guessing.. Thanks much..

[Che]

Got another question for you.. I'm in Oerba and am getting ready to leave.. God, I hate another fight with you know who, but I'm as ready as I'll ever be I guess.. So, to my question, I'm doing a little weapon upgrading and am wondering what does Stagger Lock mean? I'm assuming that it means the ability to stagger a target is unavailable with the weapon? But I'm guessing.. Thanks much..

Stagger lock weapons are really powerful, but anyone using that weapon cannot stagger the enemy. It's usually not a problem since you probably have more than one Ravager building up the % to stagger the enemy, and you only need one character to do the last 0.1% to stagger the enemy. If all 3 of your characters had those weapons, the enemy would never get staggered though, and that is fail.

[GranFran]

Stagger lock weapons are really powerful, but anyone using that weapon cannot stagger the enemy. It's usually not a problem since you probably have more than one Ravager building up the % to stagger the enemy, and you only need one character to do the last 0.1% to stagger the enemy. If all 3 of your characters had those weapons, the enemy would never get staggered though, and that is fail.

Well, it's Vanille's Heavenly Axis and I'm just wondering what good such a weapon would be if stagger lock in on it.. Does it have something else that makes it a good weapon.. Thanks

[Che]

The stagger lock weapons have stagger lock on them because the stats they have are always way better than other weapons of the same level.

[Rocky]

I actually used the Taming Pole (Fang's Stagger Lock weapon) for most of the game after receiving it. My other two characters usually consisted of Lightning and either Sazh/Vanille, so both of them were accomplished Ravagers so it didn't matter at all in the slightest. The only thing that threw me for a loop was I had to switch out the Combat Clinic paradigm for Solidarity instead, since Fang would not be able to keep the stagger guage from resetting by herself anymore. Not a bad tradeoff if you ask me.

[GranFran]

I actually used the Taming Pole (Fang's Stagger Lock weapon) for most of the game after receiving it. My other two characters usually consisted of Lightning and either Sazh/Vanille, so both of them were accomplished Ravagers so it didn't matter at all in the slightest. The only thing that threw me for a loop was I had to switch out the Combat Clinic paradigm for Solidarity instead, since Fang would not be able to keep the stagger guage from resetting by herself anymore. Not a bad tradeoff if you ask me.

I just got the Taming Pole a few minutes ago after defeating Barthandelus again.. I'm back on Cocoon in Siren Park now.. Just doing some grinding (pant, pant).. I almost peed my pants when that gigantic turtle hit us.. It came, oh so close, to killing my party.. I had stopped and upgraded my weapons to lv 15 before I went into Siren, I guess that helped some.. I'm not even sure what level they should be at now.. But I got some of those Plat Ingots, so used them to buy some items for upgrading.. Ok, back to the grind, literally..

[Meteo x -9999HP]

Are you talking about the Adamanchelid in Ch.12?


Another question for Che...whats up with quick-stagger weapons?

[Che]

Quick stagger is exactly like it sounds, it stagger's at a quicker percentage than you normally would stagger an enemy.

[Meteo x -9999HP]

Quick stagger is exactly like it sounds, it stagger's at a quicker percentage than you normally would stagger an enemy.

Oh no, I know that, I mean it's the literal translation and all.
I mean what are it's up's and downs?Like the down side of a stagger lock weapon is that the user can't initiate the stagger.

I'm sure I could look this up online, but user testimonials created by actual use are better.

Thanks.

[Che]

Oh no, I know that, I mean it's the literal translation and all.
I mean what are it's up's and downs?Like the down side of a stagger lock weapon is that the user can't initiate the stagger.

I'm sure I could look this up online, but user testimonials created by actual use are better.

Thanks.

Oh, the stat's are usually balanced between STR and MAG and they aren't that powerful of stats. So you sacrifice stats you could have by using another weapon for the ability to stagger the enemy earlier.

[Meteo x -9999HP]

Thanks Che.
Repped.

[gamorade]

I would do a lot of work on CP here trust me, but you can't be 'weak' in this game.
My characters had considerabley low HP when I was there too but I still finished, I believe i had around 1500 for each.
Just basically start with:
Med, Sab, Syn
Then when ALL possible status effects are used:
Com,Rav,Rav
When HP is below half:
Med,Sen,Med
Then when hp is close to or full go back to:
Com,Rav,Rav
Do this with every monster and you should be able to gain CP or just keep going.

[GranFran]

Are you talking about the Adamanchelid in Ch.12?


Another question for Che...whats up with quick-stagger weapons?

Yep, that's the one.. What a monster! I guess it's more dinosaur then turtle though.. But that quake effect it has nearly got me..

I would do a lot of work on CP here trust me, but you can't be 'weak' in this game.
My characters had considerabley low HP when I was there too but I still finished, I believe i had around 1500 for each.
Just basically start with:
Med, Sab, Syn
Then when ALL possible status effects are used:
Com,Rav,Rav
When HP is below half:
Med,Sen,Med
Then when hp is close to or full go back to:
Com,Rav,Rav
Do this with every monster and you should be able to gain CP or just keep going.

I think it's my biggest complaint about this FF.. I simply don't recall one that required as much 'grinding' as this one does.. I think they made the cost of each subsequent crystal purchase too high.. I mean, for Pete's sake, 10,000 CP just to move over to the next one! Arrrgg, way too much work..

Right now, I'd love to move on with the storyline as I've been grinding away for hours in Siren Park just to fill out all 3 of my tiers for the main party.. I'm almost done, have all weapons upgraded to their 'star' status.. Have matched up accessories to go with the weapons (it's nice to finally have Lightning's gauges filling up faster) and maxed them out too..

But I'm bored, bored, bored with having to do this every time a new chapter opens.. It's sort of like reading a book that is intensely good but at the end of each chapter your forced to put down the book and go do the dishes or something.. A bad analogy, I know.. But you get what I mean.. I just would have preferred a little more story and a little less grunt work..

[Meteo x -9999HP]

But I'm bored, bored, bored with having to do this every time a new chapter opens.. It's sort of like reading a book that is intensely good but at the end of each chapter your forced to put down the book and go do the dishes or something.. A bad analogy, I know.. But you get what I mean.. I just would have preferred a little more story and a little less grunt work..

Lulz.

[Andromeda]

You are not required to grind. As long as you're fighting each enemy you come across once that is enough fighting to make through the game. If you do anymore it is overkill. Typically, winning is about the strategy and not overleveling so that you're stronger than the enemy. In general, there is always going to be an enemy stronger than you. Even when max everything out and have everything of the strongest there is still going to be monsters that can one shot without batting an eye, however they are beatable with the right strategy.

Meteo please refrain from spamming.

[GranFran]

You are not required to grind. As long as you're fighting each enemy you come across once that is enough fighting to make through the game. If you do anymore it is overkill. Typically, winning is about the strategy and not overleveling so that you're stronger than the enemy. In general, there is always going to be an enemy stronger than you. Even when max everything out and have everything of the strongest there is still going to be monsters that can one shot without batting an eye, however they are beatable with the right strategy.

Meteo please refrain from spamming.

Of coarse you have to grind, Andi, and grind a lot, if you plan on getting enough CP to complete the required tiers.. No grinding, no CP (not to mention all the items needed for upgrading), no CP and you can't afford to purchase crystals to level your characters enough to win against the big bosses..
You can strategize all you want but you still have to have strong enough characters and weapons to win the game, at least I do.. Maybe I'm not doing something correctly, I just know I have a hard time staying alive against the major encounters unless I take the time to build up my players (and even then it's touch and go)..

[Andromeda]

I was able to beat Chapter 11's boss without a completed Crystarium. I had probably half of the orbs still to collect. I beat Chapter 12 the same way. A completed crystarium is not a requirement to get through the game. The game is pace well enough that if you just fight everything you're given once that you can get through any required fight one a good strategy. Will you die the first few times against the boss, probably, but once you have a strategy down it is not going to be the stats that save you. Stats in the game only get you so far.

I only grinded two in my playthrough, the first for only for about 50k CP I think enough to get a couple of ability for Fang in Saboteur and the other time was actually a mistake on my part. I thought I needed to be stronger when in reality being stronger didn't make a difference, it was the strategy I was using. Once I change my tactics the battles very easy and I had realized I wasted hours grinding when I did not need it because it did not gain me what I was looking for. You can't overlevel in this game, they built it so that you can't. You have to win through smarts and not brawn. It is one of the reason why I enjoy this game so much.

[GranFran]

I was able to beat Chapter 11's boss without a completed Crystarium. I had probably half of the orbs still to collect. I beat Chapter 12 the same way. A completed crystarium is not a requirement to get through the game. The game is pace well enough that if you just fight everything you're given once that you can get through any required fight one a good strategy. Will you die the first few times against the boss, probably, but once you have a strategy down it is not going to be the stats that save you. Stats in the game only get you so far.

I only grinded two in my playthrough, the first for only for about 50k CP I think enough to get a couple of ability for Fang in Saboteur and the other time was actually a mistake on my part. I thought I needed to be stronger when in reality being stronger didn't make a difference, it was the strategy I was using. Once I change my tactics the battles very easy and I had realized I wasted hours grinding when I did not need it because it did not gain me what I was looking for. You can't overlevel in this game, they built it so that you can't. You have to win through smarts and not brawn. It is one of the reason why I enjoy this game so much.

Well, I'm doing the strategies that guide lays out for me to use.. Mostly Delta and Mystic Towers right now, then with quick changes to Relentless when I get a moment to use it.. Then, of coarse, buffing up when I can and Combat Clinic when needed.. It still seems to take a long time to stagger an enemy unless I get lucky and preempt them..

Well, right now I just defeated Proudclad again, it wasn't terribly hard, so I have a question.. It says you can open a portal back to Pulse now and return if you like to do some missions and explore or you can go on to the final encounter and finish the story, then return to Pulse..

Which did you do? I'm thinking of going back down and doing a few missions..

[Andromeda]

You are strong enough once you reach Orphan that going back to Pulse and killing some of things is possible. All of those Behemoths and small Adamantoises are actually possible for you to kill now. You can probably Death the larger ones if you really want to do it. So it is up to you if you want go back. You're strong enough to deal with the rest of the main game if you so wish to do.

I pushed on to the end of the game and did not leave until I was at the very end of the game.