Who is the strongest FF main villain!!

[Angel of Iniquity]

Who do you think is the strongest FF main villian in history?
Here are the main villians, and the final bosses if so need be.

Garland- Created a time-loop...
Palamecia- Absorbed heaven and hell
Cloud of Darkness- Controls a portion of the void
Zeromus- Ehh...???
Ex-death- Controlls the void
Kefka- Slowly destroyed the world (as in if left unchecked, everything would have died)
Sephiroth- Ehh...?
Ultimecia- Ended up with Time powers
Kuja- Destroyed a whole planet
Sin- Don't forget about that move he does, when he opens his mouth...
Vayne- Yea right
Orphan- Worse than Vayne



I say this...

Ex-death- Come on now, the void?
Ultimeica- Again, Time?
Cloud of darkness- (Parts of the void are better than nothing

I'll finish later...headache...>.>

[Nemesis93]

i would have to say that Ultimecia was my hardest boss.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Oops, I meant strongest as in has most power compared to other bosses, basically, in a big Versus battle.

Though Ultimecia does have 4 1/2 forms

[pwn3rxp]

I am

[Rebecca Harrison]

Ultimecia

[Rocky]

Who do you think is the strongest FF main villian in history?
Here are the main villians, and the final bosses if so need be.

Garland- Created a time-loop...
Palamecia- Absorbed heaven and hell
Cloud of Darkness- Controls a portion of the void
Zeromus- Ehh...???
Ex-death- Controlls the void
Kefka- Slowly destroyed the world (as in if left unchecked, everything would have died)
Sephiroth- Ehh...?
Ultimecia- Ended up with Time powers
Kuja- Destroyed a whole planet
Sin- Don't forget about that move he does, when he opens his mouth...
Vayne- Yea right
Orphan- Worse than Vayne



I say this...

Ex-death- Come on now, the void?
Ultimeica- Again, Time?
Cloud of darkness- (Parts of the void are better than nothing

I'll finish later...headache...>.>

To all the previous posters, you guys are kinda ruining the thread with your one sentence/one word responses. This is actually not a terrible topic, so let's try to salvage it kk?

A lot of the villains in each FF game usually have some kind of crazy power or ability to take over/end the world, which makes them all scary. I think Sin is pretty powerful in itself, because he is unkillable (until Yuna brings the Eternal Calm), which sucks. Zemus/Kefka/Sephiroth are all powerful in their own right, but they didn't have all that evil emnity to begin with, or they didnt have all that power until they stumbled upon it until later so they don't seem "as bad" to me, even though they all tried to destroy the world at some point or another. I refuse to think that Exdeath is the most evil of all, simply because he's from a tree. Orphan to me is more of a machine of judgement doing with it's supposed to do, not really an "evil" being of sorts, but still very powerful. I think that Mateus is probably one of the more evil/powerful villains, because of his ascent/descent to rule both Heaven and Hell at once, which seems pretty messed up once you think about it. CoD is also really powerful/evil, and simply wants to end the entire world and bring it back to eternal chaos. Ultimecia/Garland both want to take over time and history itself which also would be something that puts shudders down my spine.

just my .02

[Heartless Angel]

It really depends on what you mean by strongest. If you simply mean physical strength, I'd assume Sephiroth, since he's one of the few who actually focuses on physical strength in combat, and the few others who do, I highly doubt could hold their own with him in melee combat.

If you mean msot dangerous, that's a topic that needs alot of discussion.

Ultimecia immediately comes to mind, time travel is concievably the ultimate unstoppable weapon. See that protagonist who the game says I must lose to in a fight? His parents never met, good game. However, I'm not certain if Ultimecia can actually travel back in time in a physical sense, she only sent back her conciousness, and I believe it was stated that there was a limit to how far back she could send it, so her options are limitted quite a bit there.

Next I thought about Zemus, but then rememberred he could only really control Lunarians, so you'd only actually have to kill like, 3 people asuming you never found out who was really behind everything, so even if he DID play all his cards right, he wasn't all that dangerous.

Kefka of course was dangerous, but not so much because of power. Kefka relied very heavily on luck and circumstance. He got pretty far in his plan, but in the end, he really didn't seem all that powerful. Yeah, he caused heavy damage to a planet when that was his primary focus, yet guys like Kuja blow up planets with random tanturms, and guys like Seph obliterate Solar systems just to add a nice cinematic to an attack, so really, when Kefka was actually FOCUSED on doing that, and only managed what he did, it undermines his apparent threat quite a bit.

Kuja was a pretty big deal too. This is someone whose power you really cant underestimate, he took out a planet with one move. You can talk about how other villains got close until you're blue in the face, fact is, they had some complex plan to get this destruction started, and ultimately failed in executing it, Kuja however just attacked once and he was done, planet gone. THAT is power.

Sin at first glance seems like a major threat, but when you really think about it, not so much. Things been running around pretty much enchecked for a millenium, and the world is still alright. It's not comfortable, and its a bit pissed off, but its alright. Sin resists his own destructive urge, an when he does give ito it, he acts only on instinct. If he had REASON and PURPOSE to all of his destruction, I would definitely say he was the msot dangerous. With his power, if he actually wanted to, he could wipe out Spira in a week; however he lacks that drive, and as a result is more of an enormous pain in the ass than a threat to all existence like other villains have been.

Finally, Sephiroth. Alot of people really try to undermine his power by comparing the level of destruction he caused with guys like Kuja and Kefka. What they ignore, is that both of them were TRYING to cause mass destruction, for Seph, that was just a rather inconvenient byproduct. Sephiroth has a military career, so in addition to strength, he has combat knowledge and experience. He also has a shiny black rock that summons celestial bodies to annihilate planets, and can use random math equations to cause stars to go nova. He doesn't die when you kill him, he just comes back, so any victory is temporary only. And if this wasn't enough, Square has stated that he never fought at his full power. To be honest, I don't even want to know how ****ed the planet would've been if he had, because he damn near won anyways. IF he wanted the world to end, it'd be over, no questions asked, no final boss battle initiated, just boom, gone, end of story. Threat level over 9000.

If you just mean let's stick em all in an arena and see who comes out, I'd probably guess Sin, simply because he could just sit on the other combatants and win.

[T.G. Oskar]

That'd be a hard one to deal with. Though I must incline, of all people, to say Ultimecia would be the hardest.

Why? Here are some good reasons:

• She can use it to cheat death, much like Garland or Sephiroth. She attempted to, as the game shows. Problem is, she got cheated out of that one out of a desperate plan, which happens to work since she apparently left a few bits of her plan on her unsuspecting host.
• She controls one of the highest kinds of powers (Time). Sin controls Gravity, Exdeath controls the Void itself, Necron controls Death, but Time is pretty much a concept that can obviate anything else. Time and Void are amongst those things that can effectively ruin anyone's plans.
• Her method of controlling time is through the easiest of ways, so to speak: Magic (and actual Magic, not Para-Magic which is what the others do). This makes Kefka a possible target, except that while Kefka's power was infused to him, Ultimecia was effectively born with that power (and given that her specialty from the very beginning was Time, much like Edea's specialty from the very beginning was Ice...)
• She used a great deal of other people to further her plans. This makes her fight on the same terrain as Zemus, except that she furthers her plans into something fruitful.
• Girl power? She's one of the few female villains, aside from Cloud of Darkness, and she constantly uses females to further her villainy. The fact that she can square off pretty well with other male villains and stand above most, if not all of them, is something to tip one's hat off.

But most importantly? Because she effectively dabbles in the plans of every single other villain, and for most purposes, she effectively succeeds; it's only an equally bizarre plan that makes her fail, or otherwise she would have completely compressed time into a veritable standstill. Plus she establishes a stable time loop (again, Garland's idea). She basically took the plans of virtually everyone and kicked them a notch, if only a bit.

Now, don't get me wrong. I still admire Kefka, Kuja, Exdeath and to an extent Zemus, and I still have a bias against Sephiroth (but I guess everybody knows that, and I have good reasons why), but in terms of raw power, I believe Ulti really needs to be supported. Void is an awesome power...of destruction, and one that destroys almost immediately and that it's meant to obliterate from existence (and it's not fun). Kefka's method of destruction was more subtle, brutal I would say, but it's someone who essentially boosts his powers through a different mean, and whom never had that power in the very beginning (it had to be infused; now, if it were Terra, it would be an entirely different story since we're dealing with two sorceresses). And Kuja's power pretty much depended on being on a state of depression and anger; doesn't mean it's not powerful. I mean, look at it; Kuja is a frickin' Darksider if you consider how his fear of non-existence leads to anger upon the world, and thus to the aggression of despair that unlocked his Trance powers.

That doesn't mean the balance of power cannot be shifted. Exdeath is a creature pretty much meant to handle the Void, and he does in a very interesting way (you effectively ENTER the Void and see how what was absorbed remains in a form of stasis, so it's not entirely Oblivion). The power of the Statues/Warring Triad cannot be entirely measured, and the lack of explanation of how they were constructed leading to them being the source and end of all Magic makes them a source of circumstantially weak power (though I'm subscribing to the idea that the Esper's magic is sort of like Forgotten Realms' Weave, but that's extraofficially). Even the power of Death or Gravity could be monstrously effective, but the problem with them is that they sacrifice their intellect to gain that power (Yu Yevon is pretty much a zombie by the time you face it, and Necron...well, Necron is an afterthought). But carefully considered, I'd say the power of Time and the absorption of the power of every single Sorceress makes Ulti a force to be reckoned.

[Rocky]

But most importantly? Because she effectively dabbles in the plans of every single other villain, and for most purposes, she effectively succeeds; it's only an equally bizarre plan that makes her fail, or otherwise she would have completely compressed time into a veritable standstill. Plus she establishes a stable time loop (again, Garland's idea). She basically took the plans of virtually everyone and kicked them a notch, if only a bit.

After rereading this paragraph a few times, I wasn't able to follow what you were saying exactly, at least I don't I did, lol, probably because it's late, etc. Care to elaborate a bit on what you mean? If anything, it's another step closer to be out of that Dark Knight status of yours

[grandia]

sepharoth, by far...

[Unlucky Rufus]

Well it's definitely not Vayne.......

[T.G. Oskar]

After rereading this paragraph a few times, I wasn't able to follow what you were saying exactly, at least I don't I did, lol, probably because it's late, etc. Care to elaborate a bit on what you mean?

Well, what it means is that you can see glimpses of the plans of other villains (at least of earlier villains) in Ultimecia's plan. And you can see how she expanded and improved upon those plans.

• Both Ulti and Garland made time loops to extend their existence and cheat death. While Garland's plan had a method to be foiled, Ultimecia used a system that, if completely successful, would have nulled all possible resistance (Time Compression; if nobody can move or exist in all points in the timeline at the same moment, nobody could face her). In that case, Ultimecia used Garland's plan and improved it.
• Ultimecia absorbed the power of the Great Hyne, the source of the Sorceresses' powers, much like Kefka absorbed the power of the Statues/Warring Triad. However, while Kefka mostly used part of the power (essentially spell nullification, creating a tower out of the debris of the world, draining the world of its power and slowly killing it), Ultimecia effectively expanded on those powers (for example, Kefka could have created entirely new Espers if he wanted to, but he wasn't interested; he only reanimated the Statues. Ulti on the other hand created Griever out of Squall's pendant, and made it one of the most powerful GFs ever while using a spell out of Quistis' own portfolio), baffling what Kefka could have done with the power of the statues.
• This leads to someone who had a similar degree of control over its power, and that chose a similar method of power: Exdeath. Both Ulti and Exdeath manipulate higher tier powers (Ex manipulates the Void, Ulti manipulates Time), and both had a great amount of control over their powers (as Exdeath could take stuff from the world and transport them into the Void, as well as unlocking the fiends sealed upon the Void and ensure complete control). However, while Exdeath was basically controlled by the power of the Void (being a construct of the Void, in a way; he's the malice of Enuo while the latter attempted to control the Void), Ultimecia controlled her source of power.
• This is similar to another villain that had full control over its source of power and that also had a VERY long time to make his plan: Sephiroth. Both had an equal amount of time to hatch their plan, both had complete if not absolute knowledge of their source of power and how to use it. However, Seph's plan was one that just hadn't started, while Ultimecia's power was essentially the last part of her plan. While Sephiroth was planning to become a god, Ultimecia already had the power of one. All Ultimecia wanted was to make sure no one could defeat her (as the SeeD of the future did), and she planned to use Time Compression to do so; hence, she was making sure she wasn't defeated. You can see how that worked out (were it not because of a very successful effort from Squall and co., Ultimecia would have effectively won), but it was a very sound plan.
  Now, you can say "well, Sephiroth worked backwards; he made sure that he could exist permanently, then execute his plan in a distant future". However, his plan was stopped twice, and after Dirge of Cerberus and Red XIII's future, Sephiroth effectively disappeared from the map. So much for that.
• Ulti's time-stop plan was much more successful than Xande's plan for time stop; while Xande effectively froze Time by means of...well, I dunno how a deluge means time stopping, but anyhoo...Ultimecia's plan managed to stop all of her timeline. Squall and co. just exited their timeline and effectively could exist on all timelines, hence escaping Time Compression (and the Ragnarok did as well, somehow, including all of the people inside).
• That leaves Emperor Paramecia, whose idea was of total control over his world. Ultimecia had total control over her timeline; so much for controlling the Afterlife if you can control who's in and who's out by, say, preventing said person's death or making the Afterlife a prison.

That's mostly what I meant. This doesn't show Ultimecia's actual power, but that one is much easier to explain; rocket tag.

Yes, rocket tag. Or at least, the D&D flavor of rocket tag: be a spellcaster, win initiative. Ultimecia controls Time and is the most powerful spellcaster of her world; hence, she always wins initiative (or effectively, she always goes first). Not to mention that she can prevent you from ever being born or created, or steal the source of your power before you get it, or even prevent your source of power from ever happening. That's her kind of power, and hence why she's the most powerful.

[Heartless Angel]

I think Ultimecia's powers were limitted in terms ofhow far back she could go, though it would seem that limit was lifted when Time Compression occured, she still managed to lose. I've never quite figured out if it was a lack of ability to pull off the ole "Your parents never met, you lose.", or if it was once again a case of "Well, we have to let the protagonist win SOMEHOW..." like in VII, where the villain also would clearly be the victor if using full power and all abilities. I'm not sure WHY even when able to exist in multiple times Squall and co could've won, Ulti could've just stopped them from ever existing supposedly <.<

[Kurt Zisa]

I'd like to say Sin because of his Ultra-Gravitation attack, (Operation Mi'hen, need i say more?) and the fact that it(he?) could, in theory be eternal as long as the Summoner's do as there told and kill themselves and their Guardians to get the Final Aeon, instead of going down the Yuna route and ****ing up a 1000 year old tradition.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Well, I think it was Terra-Graviton, the one that will kill you outright, but, most bosses, gravity attacks don't work, though i doubt that is cannon.
But, saying if summoners just did what they were supposed to do is a little biased.

I mean, the ship destroyed parts of sin, in which I'm sure Ultimecia, or sephiroth for that manor could have easily done. And the villians are allot smarter. Ultimecia might be able to throw her consciousness into sin and destroy existence lol

[Kurt Zisa]

I see what you mean about the the Airship. I think if Sin acted less on instinct it could be alot more dangerous then it was although i think this has been said already on this thread.

[Leon]

I'd like to say Kuja because, aside from destroying an entire planet, he did have incredible powers.

He was a master manipulator. He gave Brahne that "little push" as he calls it that started a war between all nations of the Mist Continent. Also, knowing that Black Mages had a limited life span, he used that to his advantage and used them to help him before ditching them in the Gulug volcano.

In terms of power, he was able to handle Bahamut. While the Eidolon was able to decimate the entire Alexandrian fleet, Kuja could survive its strongest attack with hardly a scratch (and a little bit of blood). He also survived the blast from the Invincible when it destroyed Alexandria, going back to his palace with only tattered clothes (and terrible injuries, as Zorn and Thorn put it).

In terms of strength, yes, I think he's the strongest. Kuja is among those who wanted absolute power. Emperor became the ruler of Hell, CoD and Exdeath wanted to destroy everything. Kefka wanted to become the god of magic and succeeded. I don't know much about Sephiroth, and Ultimecia wanted to be the only being to exist in time kompression (couldn't help myself).

I guess I can compare Kuja to Seymour from FFX. I'd include Sin, but Sin's just a shield for the real villain. Anyway, back to Kuja and Seymour. They both wanted power (Kuja, in the end, absorbed the souls found in the Invincible while Seymour wanted to become Sin). Neither of them were the final bosses in their respective games, but they both played major roles nonetheless. And at one point in time, they both planned to kill a family member. That's were the similarities end, however, since Kuja was always able to come up with a new plan whenever a previous one failed or even anticipate the heroes' actions. Seymour, however, would engage the heroes in combat only to lose time and time again. Clearly, he never planned ahead.

In a physical combat, Kuja wouldn't fare too well since he's 100% mage. If he achieved Trance, he'd be able to at least match the power of mages like Kefka (god of magic), Exdeath (with the power of the Void), Emperor (as the lord master of Hell), and Ultimecia (all existence denied!). However, he'd probably lose to Sephiroth unless he held nothing back. But like Heartless Angel has stated, Sephiroth's defeat would only be temporary. Kuja's life span is very limited, so unless he found a way to kill Sephiroth permanently, Kuja would eventually die and lose.

If the odds were in his favor, Kuja would definitely win against any villain. He really knew how to think ahead, and if you gave him a chance to come up with a strategy to beat you, he'd do so in the worst way possible. If he knows a weakness, he'll exploit it. Now he doesn't have Ultimecia's time powers or Sephiroth's Black Materia. Or Exdeath's power of the Void. But his mind is a powerful and dangerous weapon, and if he was somehow able to brainwash them or manipulate them in some way, we'd all be skrewed.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Well, while I agree that kuja was smart, he has no where the amounts of intellectualy abilities as Ultimecia, or even Vayne for that matter. Ultimecia not only devised of a plan to throw her conscious back in time for the sorceress of the past to unlock adel, in which she can take control of adel and start time kompression.m I mean, since th whole game is basically that, she only put togther one plan. Literally, the only thing that helped squall and Co. win was fat really, they had no chance in hell, hell I mean the only thing they could do is attempt to fight her head on which in all seriousness would have failed.

Now about the bahamut thing of kuja... Ultimecia created a Summon through Squalls mind and devised it as the strongest GF ever. I mean she made a summon... Pretty powerful.
And another thing.
If she can throw her consciousness that far behind her, several decades to the past, she can also corrupt garland and kill him before Kuja was born that tha's another thread haha

And another thing. Ultimecias true form. When you fight her, Existence is literally moments from being in a set stasis, I mean the only things you see are stars getting absorbed. And another thing, Sephiroth, though immortal through the lifestream, would not be able to survive full Time kompression...

I hope this doesn't get to long lol.
Chaos- His ultimate display of power I believe is his ingame ability Flare, which is honestly unimpressive. He is also smart too.

Mateus- He is smart, letting the main party kill him so he can exact rule over hell and eventually heaven. His ultimate display of power I believe is too both bring people back to life and easily summon twisters that destroyed towns easily.

Cloud of Darkness- I know little about her other than she is to return the world to darkness inwhich I believe is by the void. Her strongest ability i seen is the fact that she has been controlling Xandes the whole time, meaning she is cunning. Also, if you know the theory behind a particle beam, that ain' no joke xD

Zeromus- All I know is he is hate... And his only display of power is his Big bang of what I understand, which is not cannon to it's name

Exdeath- Being the incarnation of countless evil beings sealed inside the tree he once was, he should have avast amount of powers under his control. He has the ability to erase existence with thought, and from a distance. I mean, he did erase allot of towns very quickly. He himself said the only way the light warriors could win is if they used his own powers against him.

Kefka- He used the power of the 3 goddesses to smite the planet, and slowly kill it. While that isn't a complete display of power, I'm sure he could have done more, it is his own intellect which he lacked, that killed him off.

Sephiroth- I did not see anything that was of threat other than abilities that certain other antagonists had. Being mind reading, levitation, telekinesis, and supposed immortality.

Ultimecia- Should I say? She has the smarts, and the power, her greatest feat of ability is the 90% completion of Time kompression, l;eaving nothing but stars left, which technically means she destroyed most of existence, meaning again that she destroyed the most out of all villians in ALL history. Just by stupid PIS that squall had to win, that's all.

Kuja- He destroyed a planet, But! He did it in a state of depression, through his trance, meaning he had the powers, he needed to unlock them. He is also smart as mentioned before. Being able to destroy a planet is more than enough to qualify him as a high threat.

Sin- Well, if he had a meaning to him, he could basically end the planet in 3 minutes give or take how long it takes for him to open his mouth lol.

Vayne- Ahem... Smart, I'll say that... His final form is demi-godly... Eh... that's it...

Orphan- I'm not saying anything because he by far i believe is the weakess antagonist, I mean really, all he was there for is to turn one of the party members into ragnarok and die....>.>

[Heartless Angel]

Tbh, Sephiroth wouldn't have much trouble with Time Kompression. If Squall and Co. could get through that, Seph would likely not even break a sweat. Nor would Kuja or Seymour in all likelihood. Sephiroth is extremely versatile. Though the long sword generally makes him seem like a physical fighter to the core, in the game he's got some seriously stacked magic, Including the ultimate destructive magic, Meteor. But also mastered materia for most of the lesser spells. I'm not sure if his magic would compete with Seymour or Kujas, but I'd be willing to bet he could go toe to toe with either them in a magic fight. I mean, in Cloud's flashback, a dragon that one hit kills him 10x over, was a one hit kill for Seph with a normal attack. He defeated 10000 Wutai soldiers by himself. The Midgar Zolom that you have to go find a chocobo just to avoid so it doesn't horrifically murder you? Yeah, he just kinda said **** you and impaled it on a tree. Genesis, if not the second strongest person in the FFVII world, the 3rd, 4th, or 5th at very least (not sure how Cloud Angeal and Zack compare in terms of strength, since most of these guys never fought, I'd guess he'd be third since he lost to Zack) going all out against Seph couldn't even make him break a sweat. The guy takes overpowered to a whole new level. And to top it all off, we haven't seen him at 100%. One on one, unless Ulimecia could pull off the classic "your parents never met", she wouldn't stand a chance against Seph. Ulti's abilities don't lie in combat prowess, and the extent of her time manipulation is unknown, so a fight between these two is unpredictable at best. Same goes for pitting her against Kuja or Seymour, probably Kefka too.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Yay! A sephiroth fan vs a ultimecia fan.

Put it like this, he doesn't have power to summon meteor, black materia does.
Ultimecia not only made a stronger spell than Ultima, she made it, as well as a summon that is the strongest summon. And we know what Eden can do.

Sephiroth was never a universal threat, or it could be because he never tried but in terms of pure magical prowess, Ultimecia is most powerful, being that she was born wih magic abilities, also, through the time loop, she is infinitelly stronger than all sorceresses before her. She absorbed all the powers of all the sorceresses. Adel wiped out an entire nation with a thought, and if ultimecia absorbed her powers, and is even stronger, than she can.
I mean, she did Kill everybody other than the main party at the last battle.

Sephiroth tried to extinguish the planet, Ultimecia succeded in destroying most existence.
Cloud is weaker than squall, to be honest, through GF and crap, para-magic.
Saying that Cloud can't beat ultimecia no more than Squall can, I mean if she has enough power to combine ALL existence, than she has a supreme amount of power with time inwhich like sephiroth, I don't believe has shown her full power.

Her special, great attractor, is in her incomplete for, not her final form. In her final form, her special was Apocylypse, which was unimpressive. I'm saying that she didn't use her full power.

Confusing myself...>.> Random tibits of information, mixed with others hurts mah brain o.o

I feel that the only other ones that can hang with her are Ex-death and maybe Cloud of darkness.

[Heartless Angel]

By the same logic, Ultimecia doesn't have the power to cast Apocalypse either... her ass does, she has to draw from it. This of course raises the question, who did her ass draw it from... but this isn't the time or place to discuss that. Yeah, she made a great spell, and a nice GF. both of which Couln't even overcome Squall and Co. Sephiroth is stronger than Squall by a landslide, if he could take it, Seph could take it.

Sephiroth did not try to destroy the panet, merely to damage it, which he did. If he'd wanted the planet gone, the planet would be gone, simple as that.

Here power must not have been Supreme, otherwise Squall and Co wouldn't have been able to survive in her time compressed world. So there's some limit to her power, unless Square also said she never fought at 100%, which I've yet to hear, but it's possible I'll grant you.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Well, I think they made her draw it from her ass(lol)for some type of strategic fighting haha
And if they made Griever or Apocalypse that strong to kill the whole party, that wouldn't be fair lol. I mean, sephiroth blew up the star, but cloud and co. survived lol
Ultimecia draged 3 planets and a meteor to the party and they survived lol

Squall should not have been able to live in that world. I mean, what saved them, friendship. Speaking of which sephiroth would have failed lol
And during the last battle, when nothing but specks of energy exists, the party should have died. If cloud were to fight sephiroth while time kompression was almost complete, even if he wasn't using full power, his existence would be erased.
I mean when one of the party members lost their consciousness of friendship, the only thing that was closely keeping them alive, they were erased.

But let's say Time was being kompressed, Sephy vs Ultimecia since this is the talk at the moment.

That also brings up something, maybe ultimecia did not become 100%, as you seen she had 2 bodies inwhich she needed to draw from. She drew it from her consious, meaning that I don't think she was at her true prowess.

Both do not use Para-magic, they use real magic. Ultimecia can make magic spells and GFs at will. Sephiroth, which I can say should be able to create his own magic.
Ulti has Time, Sephy doesn't. Tho one can aurgue the extent of power she has, but then again she did have the ability to compress it...
Ulti has the power of all sorceresses in existence, Sephiroth has Jenova I think.

Ultimecia in all respects has m,ore overall abilities than Sephy, same with most other bosses.

Necron is basically death, Ex-death is basically the void. EVen Chaos should be able to destroy him, Sephy is more like...

1. Ulti
2. Ex-
3. Cod
4. Necron
5. Sephy

[Heartless Angel]

The void seems oddly unimpressive for being the void... and Death lost to mortal beings... so those powers aren't all they're cracked up to be. Sephiroth has a power that none of them did, a rather major one which you've overlooked. The Lifestream itself. He corrupted it and became a part of it. Even before that, he was already ridiculously powerful on his own. He didn't need an external source of power to be able to overcome anything in that world. And in the end, he's the only villain that didn't 'lose'. You're trying to pull Seph completely into Ulti's world, in which of course he'd lose, he'd be playing by her rules. If Time Kompression occured in his world, He'd still be an unending part of The Lifestream, which endures through time. Also there'd be no Sorceresses for Ulti to send her conciousness through time to, so she couldn't even achieve Time Compression. Their powers are both very much rooted in their worlds, forcing one to fight in the other's pretty much decided the match before it even begins.

[Kurt Zisa]

I know Sin is an old topic and i'm sorry to keep bringing it up but i was thinking about how it lacks the drive to totally destroy Spira, which got me thinking: Maybe Sins overall attitude is based (to a degree) on the person who is the current Sin: Seymore's goal is to become the next Sin and destroy Spira, so maybe the person who becomes Sin needs the drive first.

Also, as Ject liked to listen to the Hyme of the Faith Yuna and Co. managed to use this to their advantage by getting everyone in Spira to sing it before their final battle, which stunned Sin for a while as it stopped to listen to it. Ject liking the Hyme is also why he was at the Macalania temple.
And Sin is capable of acting on its own will as the only reason it showed up at Djose was so Ject could show his son the power he had as Sin, so that Tidus could defeat him.

These are only my thoughts so please feel free to tell me if im wrong/right etc.

[Heartless Angel]

I meantioned that earlier, the bit about the drive anyways. You make an interesting point. Sin is a destroyer even when the person inside resists it (which they always have since it's been heroes sacrificing themselves to help the world, obviously they're going to resist destroying it when they become Sin). Seymour would not only not be resisting the destruction, but actively trying to do it, in which case Sin would likely become an unstoppable engine of destruction which would likely have his way with the entirety of Spira before the next Summoner even made it to Zanarkand.

[the_savior21]

Who do you think is the strongest FF main villian in history?
Here are the main villians, and the final bosses if so need be.

Garland- Created a time-loop...
Palamecia- Absorbed heaven and hell
Cloud of Darkness- Controls a portion of the void
Zeromus- Ehh...???
Ex-death- Controlls the void
Kefka- Slowly destroyed the world (as in if left unchecked, everything would have died)
Sephiroth- Ehh...?
Ultimecia- Ended up with Time powers
Kuja- Destroyed a whole planet
Sin- Don't forget about that move he does, when he opens his mouth...
Vayne- Yea right
Orphan- Worse than Vayne



I say this...

Ex-death- Come on now, the void?
Ultimeica- Again, Time?
Cloud of darkness- (Parts of the void are better than nothing

I'll finish later...headache...>.>

1. Sin
2. Ultimecia
3. Kefka
4. Kuja
5. Sephiroth
6. Ex-death
7. Palamecia
8. Cloud of Darkness
9. Garlend
10. Zeromus
11. Vayne
12. Orphan

[ZantetsukeN]

If you look at what they have accomplished with their power, I would say Kuja. Kuja, obviously destroys an entire planet. There are no other villains in the series that can say they have done that.

But, and I have said this on multiple occasions, strength and power are no good without brains. I believe from this, Ultimecia had the most potential. I mean, she was attempting to control all time, and she hatched a plan to do so. I have also said before that Ultimecia is a genius. Most villains have been careless, but Ultimecia had a plan. And the plan was working. It was just a case of the heroes being stronger than she was.

[Heartless Angel]

Which is my main problem with her. She had the smarts and interesting abilities, but when it comes right down to it, she lost in a fair fight. That leads me to believe either her plan was flawed, or her powers were limitted in some way. Kuja's destroying a planet definitely makes him one of the top tier villains, but you have to consider their motives. Seph and Ulti weren't trying to destroy a planet at all, so the fact that they never did doesn't nescessarily mean they didn't have to power to do it. Now when you compare him side by side with villaisn who DID want to destroy the world, the fact tht he suceeded where they failed does say something, so I'd have to say Kuja is stronger than COD, Zeromus, Exdeath, and Kefka. But outside of vaillains with similar goals, planetary destruction isn't proof positive of Kuja being the strongest.

[the_savior21]

What about Sin there is no comparison sin has the most power aside from maybe kuja and also the only one who has more brains is kefka and ultimecia because of the remnents of all of the previous versions of sin that were absorbed by yu yevon

I could see maybe ultimecia or kuja but sin has the best if both worlds in my opinion it has to be sin

[Heartless Angel]

Sin is one we can't really comapre based on destruction achieved, because he wasn't trying to cause it. In fact, the one inside actively resists it at all times. If Sin had Drive and reason to kill, he'd probably be one of the strongest, but he doesn't. His intelligence is pretty much non existant. Sin runs almost entirely on instinct.