The Perfect Final Fantasy Game!!

[Angel of Iniquity]

I never said that it was a remake, it should be a remake. The whole reason why people related with Cloud was because they WANTED to relate to him. They wanted to be someone with a bigass sword, they wanted gravity defying hair, they wanted to be some little punk that whines about his feelings when Sephiroth kills their supposed love interest. That's not what I want. I want a character that I can easily identify with, and if we start off as a blank slate, we can create our own character. When I first played final fantasy 1, they gave us an option to name our characters, to give them identity. JRPG's nowadays have characters who have such idiotic, convoluted back stories that no sane human being could or would want to relate to them. the main character should be someone who could have their hair changed, apperance slightly altered or whatever, and could be you. Fable is an example of this done horribly, but at least it was ambitious. Games like Fallout 3 did this well, you were able to design your own character, acting like how you would act in given situations. That is roleplaying. No such luck in the latest FF games. FF13: Walk in a straight line, hope that your party won't screw up in a fight, and cook, file your taxes, and teach your kid how to write while the cutscene plays. A story in an RPG should be the primary focus, but Square seems more concerned with Graphics, dreadful stories, and romances that are worse than the dreadful Twilight series. When I was playing FF7, I was trying to make the character how I wanted, I tried to shape Cloud into me, but the story made him into a whining little kid. When Aeris died, I was angry for two reasons. The first reason is that her death was pointless. She already casted the holy spell or whatever, so her death had no meaning, ruining her and Cloud's friendship (I'll get to this in a second). The second reason is I was angry because Sephiroth killed her. What would you do in that situation? I would have caught her, tried to heal her or put pressure on the wound, and when that failed, I would take out my improbably large sword, and rang hells bells on him. What does Cloud actually do? grab Aeris body, and engage Sephiroth in emo conversation, "What about my feelings?!" do you want to be that? a guy who's first instinct on seeing his close friend killed by his greatest enemy is to trade poetry? There is nobody, on the face of the planet other than those Nu-metal listening teens with cut wrists that would possibly perform such an action. Roleplaying is not making you into the character. it's shaping the character into you. That's what an RPG should do, not turn you into an emo bastard that stars in a horrible movie, a piss poor prequel, and horrifying fan fiction as far and wide as the internet.

RPG, role-play game. You play a set path, somebody's role. As I have stated, allot of Western RPG's give you character customization, but fail in terms of whaty Heartless said, any backdrop on the set character.

It seems you have an problem with FF7 actually from what you stated.
Just because you don't have any type of attachment emotionally to the character or can relate, doesn't quite mean others can't. As I stated, Squall and me had allot in common, and I act more like Zell now.

I'm pretty sure you could name your character in FF7, all the way up till I think X?

Also, FF7 and 8 weren't the only FF's either. And liking something doesn't mean you must act accordingly. I do not cut myself, nor listen to "emo" music, but I like FF7 more than other RPG's, just not out of the FF genre.

Western RPG's fail in comparison.

As Heartless said, basically sai dthat WRPG's have no story in most cases.

[Antidrall]

Believe me, I would rather have no story than the bullshit I had to sit through in FFX. I could write a novel on the garbage I dealt with in that game. but since, I'm not a masochist, I'll direct you here: http://spoonyexperiment.com/category...nal-fantasy-x/

An RPG (like I've said before) is meant to role play, to make it as though it is you fighting off these monsters and off to defeat Kefka. It shouldn't be about a character that nobody can give a crap about. and that thing about characters coming out of the blue with no name or backstory? Those peole were supposed to be you. You fill in the gaps. you think of why they're here. When I played the first final fantasy, The White Mage was a kleptomaniacal narcissistic homosexual, the red mage was a flirtatious sociopath, the monk would break the 4th wall like it was a toothpick, and the fighter was me. I made up those character traits. it didn't have much to do with the story, but those four game sprites where far more endearing and likeable to me than a ghost memory hallucination from the past-future that wore pants/shorts lederhosen, playing a sport inside a water sphere filled with breathable liquid, whining about 'His story', somehow falling in love with a woman even though little to no interaction took place. Is there anybody, anybody who could possibly like this punk? Also, the option to change a character's name is a friggin cop out. the characters in FF7-X all have their own story, with characters who you can not change at all. It's like if you were playing God of War and you could change Kratos' name and call it an RPG. The story wouldn't change, there'd be no difference in kratos' dialogue or interactions with other characters, people would just call bullshit on it! and I call bullshit on Final Fantasy 7- 10!

[Heartless Angel]

Believe me, I would rather have no story than the bullshit I had to sit through in FFX.

And I'd be willing to be at least 90% of Final Fantasy players would disagree with you, because that's not how a JRPG works. If you're into WRPGS with characters with no personality at all so you can play pretend with them, then stick to WRPGs, don't expect Japan to change it's mind for you.

An RPG (like I've said before) is meant to role play, to make it as though it is you fighting off these monsters and off to defeat Kefka. It shouldn't be about a character that nobody can give a crap about.

You're confusing the concept of "me" with that of "everybody". Plenty of people can an did relate to these characters, the fact that you did not is not indicative of the fan base as a whole. In fact, you are in a rather small minority.

and that thing about characters coming out of the blue with no name or backstory? Those peole were supposed to be you. You fill in the gaps. you think of why they're here. When I played the first final fantasy, The White Mage was a kleptomaniacal narcissistic homosexual, the red mage was a flirtatious sociopath, the monk would break the 4th wall like it was a toothpick, and the fighter was me. I made up those character traits. it didn't have much to do with the story

And in this case, you had no reason to be there at all devoid of what you pretend. A story is very much dependant on the characters in it. If you're just going to ignore the story and imagine your own in its place, there's nothing wrong with any game, just close your eyes and plug your ears during any conversations and cutscenes, problem solved. Seriously, why even waste money buying a game if you're just going to ignore it and play pretend? If you're just looking for roleplay, try DnD, you actually write the story for that, and it actually cares what characters you make up. What you're doing here is akin to trying to compare a well written novel with a mad lib book. If you don't care about the author's story, why the **** would buy his book? If you want to write your own, write your own.

but those four game sprites where far more endearing and likeable to me than a ghost memory hallucination from the past-future that wore pants/shorts lederhosen, playing a sport inside a water sphere filled with breathable liquid, whining about 'His story', somehow falling in love with a woman even though little to no interaction took place. Is there anybody, anybody who could possibly like this punk?

Yeah, plenty of people liekd him. Like Yuna for example. There were character interactions, you know, those things you never see in WRPGs? Nobody interacts with your pretend characters in WRPGs, becuase nobody knows them or cares about them. They're detached from the story. As a result, the story is weak. JRPGs don't do that. If you want that, you don't want a JRPG.

Also, the option to change a character's name is a friggin cop out. the characters in FF7-X all have their own story, with characters who you can not change at all. It's like if you were playing God of War and you could change Kratos' name and call it an RPG. The story wouldn't change, there'd be no difference in kratos' dialogue or interactions with other characters, people would just call bullshit on it! and I call bullshit on Final Fantasy 7- 10!

And this is why most good JRPGs anymore don't have this option, because all it does it remove potential voice interaction between characters and doesn't really change anything. Incidentally, the point of a JRPG isn't for you to change everything, it's to play through a story someone else wrote, with chracters they implemented.

[Leon]

Pretty much what Odin and Heartless have stated. But posts here have made it obvious (again) that Final Fantasy is not everyone's cup of tea. If you don't like it, you don't like it, simple as that.

Personally, my favorite is FFIX. Each character grows in their special kind of way. Personally, I wouldn't like a bunch of zombies as my heroes. If nothing is going on in the story (evil villain trying to take over the world, or destroy it, for example), then why even have a story?

Every game ends sometime, and since every game in any system has to end, I'd recommend playing MMORPGs (or however they're spelled) if nothing else works for you.

[Angel of Iniquity]

And this is why most good JRPGs anymore don't have this option, because all it does it remove potential voice interaction between characters and doesn't really change anything. Incidentally, the point of a JRPG isn't for you to change everything, it's to play through a story someone else wrote, with chracters they implemented.

Perfect statement lol
It's like comparing Simulation racing games (Gran turismo 5, and Forza 4), to arcade racers such as Need for speed and blur.

Both are classified as an Racing game, but both sub genres differ entirely while keeping base involvement of the genre.

This is taken from a wiki source.
"JRPGs' tightly-orchestrated, linear narratives emphasize intricate plots and character development within the story, but usually lack the option to create or choose one's own playable characters. This brings an impression that JRPG is very similar to adventure games. In contrast, Western RPGs tend to focus more on open-ended, non-linear gameplay, with less emphasis given to narrative, dialogue, and plot development; and are also more likely to allow one to create and customize characters from scratch."

Also, creating your character from scratch, or near it. Can you really be entwined with the character? Can you see yourself as a space captain fighting aliens? (Mass effect)
I rather play an RPG where the story is fit. Without a set story, it may as well be an action game with RPG elements. But that can be argued an opinion.
Well then, I'm going to play FF8 now. Asobuka?

[Antidrall]

Pretty much what Odin and Heartless have stated. But posts here have made it obvious (again) that Final Fantasy is not everyone's cup of tea. If you don't like it, you don't like it, simple as that.

No no no. I love final fantasy. that's why I hate final fantasies 7 through 13. I can understand not wanting to build up your character in a perfect spitting image of you, but at least make the main character relatable in some way. Here's an example:

In Final Fantasy Tactics (the last good final fantasy game, haven't played 9 yet, I'll make the final judgement soon) the main character Ramza was raised in a noble house, fighting only to protect his family name. but when Delita's sister Teta was ordered to be shot by Ramza's brother Zalbag, he learns that a name has no meaning if injustice must be done to uphold it. That's freaking character. someone who can easily be identified, and you can understand why he becomes such a freaking selfless hero. He fights only for justice, defending the weak, and only if it's a last resort.

In FFX, Tidus is only thrown in for absolutely no reason. you could have literally removed him from the opening scene and all references to Jecht having a son, and you'd have a half decent game right there. But He tags along in the group like the low leveled guy in WoW in a raid on stormwind. He doesn't need to be there! He's totally inconsequential to the narrative! he contributes nothing to the plot, and provides an even LESS convincing romance than FF7!

Whatever, we're getting off topic here. that was all my opinion, and all of that disney crap.

[Alpha]

Antidrall, I have a few things to ask you.

Do you really think a role playing game would be better if the developers simply did not provide any character traits? Really?

When I played the first final fantasy, The White Mage was a kleptomaniacal narcissistic homosexual, the red mage was a flirtatious sociopath, the monk would break the 4th wall like it was a toothpick, and the fighter was me.

Ok, that's cool, but you might as well have been playing the video game entirely in your head.

Characterisation is very hit and miss. The best do it well, and provide us with memorable characters. Our opinions will no doubt differ, but for me, characters such as Celes, Vivi and Hope stand out. My toe-nail-biting, womanising, asexual red mage from Final Fantasy I does not stand out. Because, even if I associated those traits with it, it never existed.

Finally, if you're playing a Final Fantasy game and expect some kind of epic story and a social commentary to boot, stop playing video games all together.

[Heartless Angel]

No no no. I love final fantasy. that's why I hate final fantasies 7 through 13. I can understand not wanting to build up your character in a perfect spitting image of you, but at least make the main character relatable in some way. Here's an example:

In Final Fantasy Tactics (the last good final fantasy game, haven't played 9 yet, I'll make the final judgement soon) the main character Ramza was raised in a noble house, fighting only to protect his family name. but when Delita's sister Teta was ordered to be shot by Ramza's brother Zalbag, he learns that a name has no meaning if injustice must be done to uphold it. That's freaking character. someone who can easily be identified, and you can understand why he becomes such a freaking selfless hero. He fights only for justice, defending the weak, and only if it's a last resort.

Sorry bro, but I certainly can't relate to being a noble or giving a shit about any family name. Nor has my reality ever been shattered by the realization that my family name and honor isn't something worth fighting for, because I already thought that. I can't relate myself personally to that in any way shape or form, and after that he becomes the stereotypical perfect hero archetype, which I also can't relate with. Yet I still found tactics quite enjoyable, because he was a character that fit in with his story. The story was good, I didn't need to slap my face onto any of its characters, because the game already had its own characters. Your only grievance here seems to be that you personally could not relate with later FF heroes. That's not a flaw in the game.

In FFX, Tidus is only thrown in for absolutely no reason. you could have literally removed him from the opening scene and all references to Jecht having a son, and you'd have a half decent game right there. But He tags along in the group like the low leveled guy in WoW in a raid on stormwind. He doesn't need to be there! He's totally inconsequential to the narrative! he contributes nothing to the plot, and provides an even LESS convincing romance than FF7!

What game were you playing? Without Tidus and any relation to Jecht, you'd have a cardboard cutout villain who nobody cares about until the end when it's finally time to fight him for no reason other than that he's the villain. Auron would not have had a promise to keep to Jecht and wouldn't have remained in Spira as an unsent. Without Auron and Tidus, you'd have a party who goes on believing Yevon's lies, calling the Final Aeon, acomplishing absolutely nothing just like the countless summoners before them. You'd have Yuna never growing a spine. The entire Blitzball torunament bit may as well have been removed, since Wakka and co wouuld've gone in just like every other year and lsot in the first round. Yuna would've likely been captured by the Al Bhed, if not at the game, then at the Moonflow. Rikku never would've joined the party, as she would've been busy celebrating the successful capture of another summoner. Nobody would ever have explained anything throughout the game, since just about every time they did it was for Tidus' sake. I'd go on, but I'm affraid I'd hit the character limit. So I'll jump to the abridged version. Without Tidus, you'd be left with a party of 4 bland forgettable characters with little to no depth or development, or any significant interaction with the story, following a story with no discernable beginning middle or end, and a plot holier than the Pope's hat leading up to the unsatisfying end of doing exactly what everyone expected from the beginning of the game, going out and fighting the equally bland and forgetable enemy for no particular reason outside of the fact that he's the enemy. Changing nothing, and at very best maybe finally seeing some plot with an extremely cliche end of Wakka and Lulu getting together. In other words, an average WRPG. The entire point of most of X's story was seeing things from Tidus' perspective. He seemed randomly thrown in for a very good reason. He was. Sin picked his scrawny ass up, and dropped him in bizarro world where he didn't belong. The plot focused on him finding his place in this world. He's quite relatable if you have any imagination that goes beyond the most basic of hero sterotypes. He was a guy who always lived in the shadow of his father, living an unsatisfying life as nothing more than 'Jecht's son' who then found himself out of place and alone, left to find his place in life. That's actually quite easy to relate to.

And I must agree, getting a bit off topic, so I'll attempt to stop steering it further away now.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Well, lol, I guess that was the fatality of the little debate... anyways -o^

I actually want a Main Character with the carefree attitude of Bartz from FF5.
Although, I can't see how he would become a hero having his attitude, nor the ability to take things serious enough to be considered a serious game, but if they made FF5 remotely serious, I guess they can do it elsewhere as well.

[Leon]

I actually want a Main Character with the carefree attitude of Bartz from FF5.
Although, I can't see how he would become a hero having his attitude, nor the ability to take things serious enough to be considered a serious game, but if they made FF5 remotely serious, I guess they can do it elsewhere as well.

I think Exdeath himself is the balance between seriousness and carefree. The game itself doesn't seem serious, but Exdeath makes the whole game serious. I haven't played the game, but the only funny thing I ever heard from him (and I don't think he was trying) is "Turtle!"

[Angel of Iniquity]

I think Exdeath himself is the balance between seriousness and carefree. The game itself doesn't seem serious, but Exdeath makes the whole game serious. I haven't played the game, but the only funny thing I ever heard from him (and I don't think he was trying) is "Turtle!"

LMAO!
HAHA.
Yea lol, I don't think he was trying to be funny xD
There were serious parts like old mans death and removing the existence of numerous cities.

Also, Gilgamesh made the game a little less serious, all together, it made the game feel light hearted, which I think the genre is missing again.

Sounds weird to say but the game needs to feel, "fluffy," or "light."

Not as serious. Even games like FF7, which I think were meant to be serious still had parts of lightness. I mean,

Spoiler: cross dressing Cloud

reduced the seriousness a little at the time LMAO!
FF12 was also light hearted in a sense, but it didn't utilize enough colors to make it feel soft. FFX did a good job at making the game feel serious and light also. But in comparative to older games, even FF6, the seriousness over weighs the story and causes a dissociative problem with me.
Look at FF13. From beginning to end the game was damn serious. There were funny parts, basically with Vanille and Sahz but, the game was a little too serious. If a game is too bee that serious that early, it should try a little more to break tension here and there. Look at FF8.

Spoiler: SeeD test, dance. The whole missile crisis to the music thingy.

I mean, after a great jump in story progression, especially the serious ones, it is nice on our minds to ease up a little. That's why they also had mini-games in the FF7-X, just incase the story got a little strong, we could take a break.
That's all I think the next FF needs to be a great one.

A great mix of Seriousness, lightheartedness(didn't know was a real word o.o), a great story, and then I'll worry about gameplay cause I actually like all FF gameplay, just some is better than others.

[Henry]

-Job Classes
-Exploring like in PS1 games
-200+ hours gameplay
-Lotsa secrets like in IX Doga & Une music something like that
-NOT FUTURISTIC!!

[markandrewkinzett]

Hard question but it should have these things. 1) A cool central character who is good looking and hard and other side characters to compliment him/her 2)A deep meaningful and emotional story. 3)Plenty of sidequests to keep you playing. 4)An enjoying minigame. 5)Great soundtrack and stunning visuals (particulary in FMV's). 6)A good voice cast. I think that's it I will come back and edit this post if I think of anything else!!!