FF began to suck balls?

[Zargabaath]

I could give one very clear-cut reason why FF Sucks and is NOT the same series a lot of us grew up with: The Big Three are gone. Sakaguchi, Uematsu, and Amano (yeah Amano contributes some art here and there, but he's no longer designing characters). I mean Sakaguchi said the series was in proper hands with Matsuno, and the bigwigs at S-E drove him out.

While I think VIII and IX were "okay" I really think X was the first time they really thought a blend of Boy meets Girl+Quest to Stop the Badguy really clicked with the new generation of Square and that's what they've kept with it. No Sakaguchi, the original creator of these series, to say they're wrong.

Sad, really. The same thing happened with Cartoon Network, with Ted Turner gone, Execs moved in to create the channel THEY wanted, a flimsy Nickelodeon ripoff that was no longer about Cartoons 24/7.

What's interesting is Sakuguchi called FF IX his favourite Final Fantasy and it is the closest to his ideal view of what a Final Fantasy should be.

And at least we have Adult Swim.

[FThomas]

I don't think that drawing a comparison between to FFs is a good idea because they have different flows and ideas behind that I have the tendency to see every game for itself and judge on that.

[Pete]

I would love to see FF's actually return to their roots, like the Nintendo generation.

The Sony-era games were good, hell they were even great games, but they were all super serious. VII did this pretty well, balancing between oh shit lets save the world and having some comedy. VIII was very angst-filled. IX was a nice attempt at going back to the light heartedness, but I wanted to slap Garnet. X was alright, but it just felt awkward at points. XI doesn't count and XII was solid, but the character felt rather flat. Anytime a character came in for comic relief or a lighthearted feel, like a Selphie, who would've been the norm for IV-VI, they get written off as something of a ditz or a shitty character.

I understand that saving the world is serious business, but not everyone can be super serious all the time. This is especially so if the characters are generally in the 18-30 age range. I mean how many of us are super cereal all the time?

[Meier Link]

I would love to see FF's actually return to their roots, like the Nintendo generation.

Old school FTW. I have to completely agree with this statement.

Really to me there was a defining moment in FF history that started the series to the less good side of things and that was the introduction to the PS era. I am not saying FFVII, VIII, or IX where bad games and neither was X or XII. I just think that the focus shifted from a good solid story line with well developed and very diverse characters ruled supreme to how flash can we make a turd and slap the FF logo on it. Lets face it most of the newer games out be considered outstanding RPGs IF (yes that is IF) SE hadn't thrown the FF title on it.

FFXII wouldn't of caught near as much shit if it was titled something other then what it is. I think it is funny because most compairsons strictly come down to how FFs fare up against other FFs instead of the multitude of RPGs related around the same time.

[Cain Highwind]

FFXII wouldn't of caught near as much shit if it was titled something other then what it is. I think it is funny because most compairsons strictly come down to how FFs fare up against other FFs instead of the multitude of RPGs related around the same time.

Yeah FFXII is actually a simplified version of Vagrant Story, another installment of the Ivalice Series. In a way I do like FFXII because playing VS, I just COULD NOT get a hang of all the tricky subsystems of that game with targeting multiple parts. It's probably the only game I've ever reluctantly given up on because of the gameplay. It's a shame because from what I played, the mood and setting and the invoking plot is great, even better than XII's. But again that's because Matsuno retained FULL control of that title.

[Nero]

I like X-2*Then again I am a Yuna and Tidus fan so...*and I'll admit when I first saw it I thought I'd hate XII but the more I read about it the more I wanna play it.It just sounds so fun.

[Zargabaath]

FFXII wouldn't of caught near as much shit if it was titled something other then what it is. I think it is funny because most compairsons strictly come down to how FFs fare up against other FFs instead of the multitude of RPGs related around the same time.

I find it to be a slippery slope when comparing games, more so when they are generations apart; each game is different and should be graded unto itself. Judging a game based off another game or games is silly - the game in judgment is not the game being used as the standard; as to why people do this shows a defficiency in intelligence on the matter. As the capabilities of gaming have progressed there have been higher standard expectations of RPGs or games in general however I would use that standard loosely otherwise greatness could be strictly defined.

Tales of Legendia is not Dragon Quest VIII. Final Fantasy X is not Shadow Hearts: Covenant. Final Fantasy XIII is not Dragon Age: Orgins. Fable II is not Mass Effect. Star Ocean: The Last Hope is not the Star Ocean Series. Breath of Fire III is not the Breath of Fire series. Final Fantasy V is not the Final Fantasy series. Tales of Vesperia is Tales of Vesperia. Valkyria Chronicles is Valkyria Chronicles. Lost Odyssey is Lost Odyssey.

[dapofola]

Well after FF X (The best Final Fantasy in my opinion) square enix has gone down. Final fantasy XI was an MMO, strange, and FF XII was really a 7.5. But, the RE-MAKES of FF VI for the GBA and FF IV for the DS were 8.0 for FF IV and 9.0 for VI (some may disagree with me, though). But FF XIII sold platinum after one day, better than most CD's in the US. Hopefully after 4 years since the last one. On march 9th 2010, we will get the FF of all FF's. FF sucking, depends. But, even when Square Enix makes crappy FF's they still sell well. And now, Square Enix is making Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, Mobilized and reflex in Japan.

[Rydia Lover]

2. The "Empire vs. Rebel" theme is used in Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy VI and to some extent: Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VII, and Final Fantasy VIII. I'll add the whole "it was Star Wars" here. No story that is done now will be 100 percent original, yes there can be similiarities between FF XII and Star Wars but Rogue Galaxy had more similiarities than FF XII to Star Wars. The developers said that they were not influenced, inspired, or took from Star Wars - subject matter closed. In Japan, there was not this problem because Star Wars is not big or as big there as it is in the West, who when playing FF XII will think Star Wars. On a final note, didn't George Lucas borrow heavily from Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress? Yeah, I thought so and I don't hear people bashing Star Wars; maybe in Japan they do because The Hidden Fortress is a Japanese movie I don't know, but if they did that would be hilarious.

well actually i imediately noticed the strong similarities, but that is actually why i really enjoyed the story to this game as i am a HUGE star wars nerd lol.

[Treize]

FF isn't huge in japan like it is here in the states, a lot of other RPGs over there are considered way way better then Final Fantasy.

From the statistics I've seen FF is pretty huge in Japan. I saw that Final Fantasy XIII sold over 1.5 million copies on its first day. That's more than one percent of the population of Japan, and remember, that was only on the first day it released. Final Fantasy X and XII also sold more than 2 million copies in Japan. Also I think for every Final Fantasy game more copies have been sold in Japan than the US despite the US having almost 2.5 times the population of Japan. Finally Final Fantasy is the second best selling RPG franchise after Pokemon, so I believe it is pretty popular. Final Fantasy is bigger in Japan than in the US.

I've probably said this all before, but I still think this is important to consider, and it seems most of the people are just ignoring this. I think that most people are still only considering Final Fantasy XII when they are making this judgment. Just about everyone has to agree that Final Fantasy XII is at least decent, but if you look at the other games between Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy XIII, it is almost all disappointments.

Square-Enix has resorted to re-re-rereleaseing games in order to make profits instead of coming up with new Final Fantasy games in order to make a profit. It seems that rereleasing these games are more profitable than taking the time to come up with a new game even. Final Fantasy IV did not need to be released on the GBA and the DS. Final Fantasy I and II did not need to be released on the GBA and the PSP. Final Fantasy Tactics probably did not even need to be remade. I could maybe go as far to say that Final Fantasy I, II, IV, V, and VI didn't even need these further remakes in the first place because their previous remakes for the Playstation are readily available new for under $20, at least in the US.

Also Square-Enix has started to make bad spin off games, and horrible continuations and side games. The two new Tactics games are pretty bad and have become childish. Dirge of Cerberus is just bad. Crystal Chronicles is pretty bad if you compare it to any game in the main series. As a matter of fact I cannot think of any Final Fantasy game besides Final Fantasy XII that was made in the past 8 years that were at least decent. Final Fantasy X-2, Dissidia or Crisis Core could be considered good if you are into them, I guess, but I am certainly not that interested in any of them. That is possibly 4 "good" games out of the 10 plus Final Fantasy games that have been put out not including remakes. Still none of these games are great, or as good as the previous five games in the series. You could possibly argue for XII, but the others, I don't see an argument.

I was getting overly worked up with Final Fantasy XII earlier when I shouldn't have. What I wanted to mainly talk about in the first place were the games besides Final Fantasy XII, but I got a little carried away.

Unfortunately I've also heard that Final Fantasy XIII isn't that good even. I have actually only heard bad things, but maybe that is to be expected with such a mainstream game? I'm not going to go into details since I have not even played it yet, but I'm almost shirking to play it when it comes out to avoid the further disappointment I'm feeling with this series. I am just hoping it is better than Final Fantasy XII, but that isn't looking to be the case.

[Furore]

Has FF begun to suck balls? No.
Has it fallen from what it once was? It certainly has to me.

I look at it this way. I play any game from I-X and love the story and most of the characters. In the games where the characters were bland, they had different roles that could be chosen to make a new game play considerably differently, but after Final Fantasy III, most games seemed to have characters with more personality.

Then I play Final Fantasy XII. I am greeted by a hugeass desert after a promising opening scene with a character who seems alright. Next character however is a whiney kid. 'Fine' I start to think for myself 'I'm sure some of the other characters will make up for it'. They didn't. Eventually I got some nice scenery, but the bland characters and the political story don't scream Final Fantasy to me like the previous titles. And don't get me started on the gambit system which could make the game like a movie requiring only slight interaction...

[Trodorne]

I’m not really looking for an answer I just want to find out if I’m not alone in this way of thought. But after Final Fantasy 9, the whole game has just gone downhill completely.

I first played FF7 way back in the days and from then it turned me into a gamer. I then played up till 9 and the previous FF’s loving them all in their glory. I played FF10 and although quite enjoyable there was something very wrong. But now, I’m sorry, they have simply just begun to sucked.

FF12 was just horrible... I didn’t even bother finishing it because it just bored me. For some strange reason they went from having a game with a the most amazing narratives, imagination and playability into the same old shit any game developers can make. If you think FF12 has good imagination, think again. It just didn’t feel like a FF at all and I hope older FF players agree with me. I know there trying to keep up with today’s market but why take away things that made the game what it is and change it to fit newer players. What happened to looking after the older and loyal player’s! If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

I know people are going to say they don’t give a **** what this guy thinks but I just want to get some opinions from other FF fans. I’m not trying to start a rant.

rascalz

i agree. but for me ill have to add in VIII. its like the series sold out to appease the crowds. just end the series already. and do table top games for it. that way no more lame games.

[Yesha]

I Love aLL of FF series that I've pLayed.. though, yes.. I agree some series Lacks something.. Like, for exampLe.. FF12 reaLLy has a short story (but it's stiLL okay) and some characters are reaLLy forgettabLe.. but.. that's aLL I can say..

aLL FF series are reaLLy enjoyabLe and never faiLed to show new things, characters and atLeast an interesting story for everyone to pLay..

Over-aLL.. FF stiLL rocks and It's stiLL growing so.. we can expect more things to come from them.. :-)

[bahamuts heir]

I'm not saying it began to suck balls but after 9 square-Enix slowly ruined the series although I do like some of the newer ones like final fantasy dissidia and tactics wotl plus tactics advance 2 Ive never played 11 and I doubt I will soon
let's just hope 13 fixes this problem

[Rydia Lover]

I'm not saying it began to suck balls but after 9 square-Enix slowly ruined the series although I do like some of the newer ones like final fantasy dissidia and tactics wotl plus tactics advance 2 Ive never played 11 and I doubt I will soon
let's just hope 13 fixes this problem

war of the lions is a remake of the original tactics. the only difference is a few new jobs and balthier.

i dont think the series sucks at all, i just think most people here cant live up to change. every final fantasy (with a few exceptions) has alot to offer.

and i dont want to start a fight here but im so sick and tired of people saying how VII was so groundbreaking and original with its stoy when SOO MUCH OF IT WAS borrowed from VI:
gesthalian empire - shinra
returners - AVALANCHE
sephiroth betrays shinra - kefka betrays the emperor
both main characters have a haunted past (or atleast one of them thinks they do lol)

[Dodie16]

I think VII was groundbreaking in that it brought people who never played RPGs to actually playing RPGs. It was the game that could appeal to both hardcore and casual gamers, and I think that's something that is quite difficult to do. Yeah, there are similarities to VI, but since they're both games in the Final Fantasy franchise, I don't have a problem with it, and neither did the game developers.

Like I said earlier, I don't think Final Fantasy is "sucking balls". I've enjoyed all the titles that I have played. I understand why some of the older fans may not like the newer ones, but sometimes you do have to bring reinventions to the series to keep it fresh. I don't see a problem with that.

[Rydia Lover]

I think VII was groundbreaking in that it brought people who never played RPGs to actually playing RPGs. It was the game that could appeal to both hardcore and casual gamers, and I think that's something that is quite difficult to do. Yeah, there are similarities to VI, but since they're both games in the Final Fantasy franchise, I don't have a problem with it, and neither did the game developers.

Like I said earlier, I don't think Final Fantasy is "sucking balls". I've enjoyed all the titles that I have played. I understand why some of the older fans may not like the newer ones, but sometimes you do have to bring reinventions to the series to keep it fresh. I don't see a problem with that.

thats the thing though, alot of the older fans like the newer ones like 12, its all the people who only like VII through X that hate the new games
ive noticed that most of the people like like 12 are older more mature people.

[Zidane77]

I totally know what you're saying, it went downhill from IX.
Some of the games are playable after that but they are not nearly as awesome.

The X games were okay (although X-2 was too much of an perfectionist game with awful music),XII sucked balls i agree (but it had fun battle mode which kept me in it and im winning it for the 3rd time, don't know why, it doesn't deserve it).
The FFVII spinoffs were one of the best ones but had their flaws especially DoC.

I tried the War of the lions and Dissidia and my results were: not FF and quickly stopped playing those awful pieces of junk.
The only tactics game i liked a tiny bit was the one on GBA but i would never play it today,it's was just a one time play-through then i got really bored with it and didn't care for finish it, as it didn't have anything to grab unto.
So basically i just like the FFVII spinoffs and Kingdom Hearts, if it weren't for them i would probably lose interest in the new games.

Has FF begun to suck balls? No.
Has it fallen from what it once was? It certainly has to me.

I look at it this way. I play any game from I-X and love the story and most of the characters. In the games where the characters were bland, they had different roles that could be chosen to make a new game play considerably differently, but after Final Fantasy III, most games seemed to have characters with more personality.

Then I play Final Fantasy XII. I am greeted by a hugeass desert after a promising opening scene with a character who seems alright. Next character however is a whiney kid. 'Fine' I start to think for myself 'I'm sure some of the other characters will make up for it'. They didn't. Eventually I got some nice scenery, but the bland characters and the political story don't scream Final Fantasy to me like the previous titles. And don't get me started on the gambit system which could make the game like a movie requiring only slight interaction...

Well said, although i think the gambit system was not that bad, but the license system was way too short of a deal and the music was crap most of time,especially in Rabanastre and some dungeons.

[vicks and wedge]

the problem stems from everytime a producer makes a classic turn based rpg with....oh no random battles ...the game reviewers crap all over it calling it nothing new and innovative..prompting the producers to try and make new inventive styles. ignoring the legions and legions of classic rpg fans and most horribly robbing us of our most prized posession the final fantasy series.


where it went wrong:
ffx (i dont know how anyone can say ix it follows the success plan)

The problem is this: no world map..yes its that simple!!!
they went away from the tried and true exploration of the world which truly opens up the immagination..finding a new cave, unlocking areas by sea or airship, finding a way to get to another place due to geography. this is an esential piece to what makes these games work.
I may have hated the game if the battle system was not the best ever i mean switching characters mid battle awsome!!

so yes it does suck balls now..admitadly i never played xi or xii but what i see i have no interest in doing so same with xiii. I saw the battle system and again its different!! from what i love in an rpg

i mean come on square enix dont fix whats not broke a recent poll on this forum showed 6-9 being the most popular in the series. those games have the same basic traits with new stories and variations on the power up and abillities system.

at least these games are available on the hand helds i own 1 and 2 on gba (ds)1 and 2 on psp , 3 on ds, 4 on ds remake and gba, 5 and 6 on gba (hopefully ds or psp remakes soon) and now 7 and 8 on psp through plastation network (hopefully 9 soon too as a ps1 classic) i am covered 1-8 the good ones before they f'ed it all up..so keep making new inovative ff titles and i will ignore them....or give the legions of loyal final fantasy fans what they want and make a new ff in the traditions of the old !!!! stop taking us like fools and calling things final fantasy that arent final fantasy like the stupid final fantasy movie...remember all the games like that movie yea thats just like final fantasy...yea....o....k.

[vicks and wedge]

i posted my first critique above before i read much of the posts

to those who defend 12 and and the other titles that some are saying suck:

these games may be good games on their own the problem is they are putting the final fantasy name on things knowing tons and tons of fans will buy it based on it being called final fantasy...we buy these games for that reason alone trying to recapture the great final fantasy expieriences we love only to discover alot of these titles even those in the main series re different games with slight links to what i call true final fantasy whick
i describe in my post above (world map, exploration turn based battles with new twists)

these games may be good but they are not what ppl who have played ff from the start are wanting...

ok everyone back off me a bit...i dont like the neww ff games and i will not play them ..this is my opinon please do not debate my opinion as if they are facts..i like the old school i am nostalgic...ok

to defend my opinion however i want to make a point to maybe help illustrate where i am comming from

1-10 followed a verry simmilar pattern yes they have changed but they have basically stuck to the same pattern...the new ones are different dont try to debat that... they are (11 being an mmo i know nothing about but i dont play mmo) i love the ff expierince i get from 1-10 i dont want a different expierience if i did i would play a different franchise..

please take what i say as an opinion of someone whos been with ff from the begining eagerly awaiting each new installment . if 12 is a good game then good for it to me it does not seem like the ff i like so i wont play and whats sucks balls is that the franchise i love changed...for whatever reason..sales new age gamers whatever the reason it sucks balls that its different......i can crap in a box and call it ff but that dont mean its good..i dont just instantly drool over things that say ff



perhaps thete are two schools of thought ff traditionalists like myself and those who like the newer games....ding ding

[Che]

If you think FF has begun to suck balls, it's probably you. No, really.

Think of every game in the series as being the first in the entire series you've ever played. For the most part, all of the titles are setting the bar when they are released. It's you, the gamer who's played Final Fantasy since the very first one, that are changing, growing older, starting to see patterns, and starting not to get as pumped about them because it'll never be like your first time.

You've lost your sense of adventure and are now just nitpicking shit for no reason.

[Zargabaath]

the problem stems from everytime a producer makes a classic turn based rpg with....oh no random battles ...the game reviewers crap all over it calling it nothing new and innovative..prompting the producers to try and make new inventive styles. ignoring the legions and legions of classic rpg fans and most horribly robbing us of our most prized posession the final fantasy series.

First off, what is so inherently wrong with a game that doesn't have random battles? Personally I am able to flow game to game without a preference - I play the game without a problem if it has random battles or not. Secondly, how do random battles make an RPG "special" or better - what is inherently "godly" about random battles?

Consider that the consumer base has grown up there is a good portion that most likely have acquired new expenses - house, children, car, etc. so they may not have the money or time to "game" as much as they did in the past, when they were young and didn't have as many responsibilities. So the companies must look for new consumers to purchase their product; I believe it was Kitase who said it was normal for old fans to grow out of Final Fantasy and that the series is aimed at the age group of teens to early twenties.

In Final Fanasy XIII, while it doesn't have random battles, at least there is a screen transition if fighting battles without one is a scary proposition.

Also, Dragon Quest VIII for the PS2 was very well received along with the Shadow Hearts series and Dragon Quest IV and Dragon Quest V have also been positively received and they all had random battles with a turn-based system, to name a few - so yeah...

where it went wrong:
ffx (i dont know how anyone can say ix it follows the success plan)

Really? I think FFX being the second highest selling FF kind of says otherwise. As you later mention, the "not-so recent" poll has FFX/X-2 having the second most votes so and on gamespot the game got an average user score of 9.3 from a little over thirty thousand people. Considering how political polls say that the people think this and usually only polled one thousand or less people; a poll of thirty thousand people is very impressive.

The problem is this: no world map..yes its that simple!!!

If you think that the world map is something that made Final Fantasy special that is sad. Final Fantasy did not make the world map; the world map came before Final Fantasy was created. The world map is not that significant of a feature that it would ruin a RPG. Persona 3 and Persona 4, for example, don't have a world map that is explorable, but those games are still good because of what is in the game - the world map was not vital to the nature of the game; more examples would be the Shadow Hearts series.

they went away from the tried and true exploration of the world which truly opens up the immagination..finding a new cave, unlocking areas by sea or airship, finding a way to get to another place due to geography.

Those are all so "compelling" points. Walking through a patch of forest at the edge of a continent really opens the imagination. There was the "search" system on the airship in FFX that opened up some areas and there were areas in FFXII that could be further explored or found anew.

this is an esential piece to what makes these games work.

I think FFX, FFXI, and FFXII worked fine without a world map I didn't notice any glitches; the player could explore the fields of FFXI and FFXII which were massive though the fields in FFX - not so much.

FFX is FFX,not FFIV, FFVI, or FFIX - don't judge a game against another game; the game being judged is not the other game. Judge a game on its own.

I may have hated the game if the battle system was not the best ever i mean switching characters mid battle awsome!!

I agree that FFX did have a very awesome battle system with the ability to save Overdrives and select how to fill up the Overdrive bar - for example.

so yes it does suck balls now..admitadly i never played xi or xii but what i see i have no interest in doing so same with xiii. I saw the battle system and again its different!! from what i love in an rpg

FFXII still has a turn-based system even though it is in real-time - which is why it is called ADB (Active Dimension Battle). A character must wait for a bar to fill up before they can act; this is the same as in past FFs with the ATB system. A difference is in FFXII the action is selected first (pending on how the player played) and then the bar filled up; in FFs with the ATB, the bar filled up and then the action was selected. Both are still turn-based.

In FFXIII the ATB has been changed for the first time since its creation. The ATB bar fills up and the player can select actions that will take up a certain amount of the bar; also, the player has the option to perform an action before the bar has filled up if they want an action done quickly (ex: a heal or revive). The game is still turn-based because the player must wait for the bar to fill up to a certain point before the character can perform anything - it is not a hack-and-slash game where the player must press "x" to swing the weapon.

i mean come on square enix dont fix whats not broke a recent poll on this forum showed 6-9 being the most popular in the series. those games have the same basic traits with new stories and variations on the power up and abillities system.

It is odd how you seemingly overlook that FFX/X-2 had the second most votes, meaning it would be more accurate to say that FFVII-FFX/X-2 are the most popular games from that poll. If they didn't "fix" whats not broken they never would have left the real classic turn-based system showcased in FF-FFIII. Again the series is about switching stuff up, to try new things. Perhaps in a future installment it may have a real classic turn-based system or it may go back to a different version of the ADB system.

....or give the legions of loyal final fantasy fans what they want and make a new ff in the traditions of the old !!!!

That is not the spirit of FF unfortunately and it is unfortunate that a "veteran" would not realize this. Either way go play a series that is repetitive or play the old FFs, though it wouldn't be bad if you started judging the new FFs by themselves instead of irrationally judging them against a game(s) that they are not. Why would somebody judge FFVIII against FFV; FFVIII is not FFV, it is FFVIII. Foolish mortals.

stop taking us like fools and calling things final fantasy that arent final fantasy like the stupid final fantasy movie...remember all the games like that movie yea thats just like final fantasy...yea....o....k.

The title on the gamebox tells me that they are Final Fantasy unless I am reading the gameboxes wrong. Each Final Fantasy game brings the same key aspects that makes the series special in an unique/different way - it is only that some think that those aspects can only be done by "h" and not "u".

i posted my first critique above before i read much of the posts

to those who defend 12 and and the other titles that some are saying suck:

I find how you evaluate games to be of poor quality.

these games may be good games on their own the problem is they are putting the final fantasy name on things knowing tons and tons of fans will buy it based on it being called final fantasy...we buy these games for that reason alone trying to recapture the great final fantasy expieriences we love only to discover alot of these titles even those in the main series re different games with slight links to what i call true final fantasy whick
i describe in my post above (world map, exploration turn based battles with new twists)

I do love people with Nostalgia Syndrome so funny how things most be so strict in what is a Final Fantasy but at the same time they are going against the a key "spirit" of the franchise which is the series reinventing itself in each game, trying new things, mixing old aspects up.

As I said before real classic turn based is seen only in FF-FFIII and FFX however, FFIV-FFIX and FFXII and FFXIII do have a turn based system.

these games may be good but they are not what ppl who have played ff from the start are wanting...

I have beaten all the main series excluding XI and I got from each one something special and enjoyment. Oh no I must be an alien or something or I just don't have silly nostalgic notions of what FF is and what FF can be.
Flow like Spike Spiegel. Also there are many people who started from the beginning and like FFX, FFXI, or FFXII - anomolies are they??

perhaps thete are two schools of thought ff traditionalists like myself and those who like the newer games....ding ding

And perhaps there is another "school of thought" - people who are fans of the Final Fantasy series; whom like all of them and find something great in each game. Fans who aren't blinded by nostalgia or by graphics/new generation. That don't have rigid ideas of FF is and allow the developers to try new things or to mix old things up and to give it an honest chance. Fans who judge each game by itself and not against another FF. I am proudly a part of this "school of thought".

If you think FF has begun to suck balls, it's probably you. No, really.

Think of every game in the series as being the first in the entire series you've ever played. For the most part, all of the titles are setting the bar when they are released. It's you, the gamer who's played Final Fantasy since the very first one, that are changing, growing older, starting to see patterns, and starting not to get as pumped about them because it'll never be like your first time.

You've lost your sense of adventure and are now just nitpicking shit for no reason.

Nicely put. You get two crystal thumbs up from me.

[loaf]

Since every Final Fantasy isn't like VII, they all suck.

Seriously, if you think Final Fantasy sucks now, then stop playing them.

[SuperSabin]

Where do you guys think the series is heading now? I loved FFXIII and I thought the gameplay was great. I'm always going to be a fan of IV, V, and VI the most. All the others are fun to play as well. I don't think any of the FFs suck at all. All you have to do is look at which FFs you like to play and stick with them. For the future FFs and spinoffs, I really would like to see them NOT have anything to do with Cloud and Sephiroth. Those 2 have taken the spotlight longer than need be. People make these characters seem better than they really are and it really irritates FF players who aren't fanboys/girls of mentioned characters who just want to enjoy an FF title. Look at dissidia, I wanted to play the game but theres screenshots of the game both on the box art and the psp bundle case of cloud and sephiroth. That is just annoying. So in summary, enjoy the FF games you like to play and I hope to see new characters that aren't those 2 characters and games that don't spin off of FFVII.

[ZantetsukeN]

A bit of a strong statement to say they 'suck balls', they have just evolved.

There isn't a single FF I didn't like. Sure there are ones I didn't like as much, but they have tended to be older ones.

From VII, the series evolved. They had new ideas, such as materia in VII, Junctions in VIII and Sphere Grid in X, but they have all followed the same idea. I do not believe FF has strayed that much from its roots, just added layers on top of the general formula.

Take XII into account, for example. Some say it didn't feel like a FF, but it all had the same idea. Just with new things added in, such as the Mark hunts, the License Board, Gambits etc. Personally, I loved XII, because it gave me that new twist that FF had needed. After IX, I felt something new needed to happen. But XII was the first one to give me that.

I think some are still stuck in this 'if it isn't broken, don't fix it' idea, but if each game was basically the same with new characters and story, we wouldn't be playing the new ones because we would want something new.

[Zidane77]

What sucked balls was "The Spirits Within" movie and online games made into the series.
They should in my opinion be independent series like Tactics, Crystal Chronicles, Kingdom Hearts etc.

XII kinda was one of the games that sucked balls (compared to others) and basically most of the games since Squaresoft became Enix (except the KH series and XIII which were pretty good).
Also the FFVII stuff that was added was all acceptable except Dirge of Cerberus which should've been a lot better.

But i simply think that none of it really sucks balls except maybe Dissidia, i simply used the word that was entitled in the post

[Xanatos]

First of all, it's really amazing to see how much Final Fantasy has evolved with it's every sequel, constantly raising the bar and setting new standards, being among the top for over 20 years now, that's something you really need to appreciate, not just as Final Fantasy fan, but as a gamer as well. Now, there's a particular sentence that bugs me which usually those who complain about recent games in the series use, "it doesn't feel like Final Fantasy". I never really understood that sentence, which exact Final Fantasy should it feel like, because majority of them feel different to me, though there's still that small part they all have in common, a part that will make me say "Yup, I'm playing Final Fantasy alright".

Which leads me to Final Fantasy XII, a game that many people bash for a reasons unknown to me. I don't think I'll ever understand all the hatred for this game, and reasons for not liking it are silly at best. According to Rascalz, the founder of this thread, only first ten games in the series have an original story, I beg to differ, Final Fantasy XII is one of the rare games in the series that have a fresh and original story. For instance, the essential part of Final Fantasy's I-V story is almost the same, a group of heroes are trying to collect/save the crystals from an evil force, the same thing could be said for the story of Final Fantasy VII-IX, where we have a love story and a teen hero who along with his friends needs to save the world from utter destruction, usually caused by insane villain. In Final Fantasy XII we don't have a single hero, we have a group, most of them just common folk trying to restore their country and prevent a war outbreak. One thing I really love about Final Fantasy XII is how much work and devotion has been put in Ivalice, and I don't mean visually, I mean a detailed history of Ivalice, it's culture, races, the only game in the series that could offer something similar is Final Fantasy IX.

Another thing I can't close my eyes on is all that bitching about the world map, I for once didn't notice that Final Fantasy XII lacks a world map, maybe because it doesn't, for God's sake, you're walking on a huge world map all the time, but this time everything is in it's natural size. As for the battle system, almost the same as in the previous games, you have to wait the bar to fill up to attack, just this time you can actually walk during the battle, you can give you characters commands on your own or let them fight on their own, the choice is yours. Huge advantages are non random battles where you can actually avoid your enemies which makes traveling less tedious, and of course there are huge open spaces, something I'm particulary fond of. Not to mention that this game gives you feeling of accomplishment, everything's harder, from battles to collecting gil. Final Fantasy XII evolved the series in many aspects but still retained the same formula other Final Fantasy games have. And for those who think it doesn't feel like Final Fantasy, different story and characters, music, names, references, countless equipment, magic, monsters, summons, and creatures that appear through Final Fantasy franchise, Final Fantasy XII has all that, same as the rest of games in the series, maybe even more, no, definitely more, so I don't really see how it doesn't "feel" like Final Fantasy.

I don't think Final Fantasy games could stayed at the top if they sucked balls as you said, they're all great (except for Final Fantasy V), the only difference is, you may like it more or less, and remember, SquareEnix can't please it's every fan.

[Zidane77]

W00t?
FFV was a good one

[Trodorne]

Which leads me to Final Fantasy XII, a game that many people bash for a reasons unknown to me. I don't think I'll ever understand all the hatred for this game, and reasons for not liking it are silly at best. According to Rascalz, the founder of this thread, only first ten games in the series have an original story, I beg to differ, Final Fantasy XII is one of the rare games in the series that have a fresh and original story. For instance, the essential part of Final Fantasy's I-V story is almost the same, a group of heroes are trying to collect/save the crystals from an evil force, the same thing could be said for the story of Final Fantasy VII-IX, where we have a love story and a teen hero who along with his friends needs to save the world from utter destruction, usually caused by insane villain. In Final Fantasy XII we don't have a single hero, we have a group, most of them just common folk trying to restore their country and prevent a war outbreak. One thing I really love about Final Fantasy XII is how much work and devotion has been put in Ivalice, and I don't mean visually, I mean a detailed history of Ivalice, it's culture, races, the only game in the series that could offer something similar is Final Fantasy IX.

Another thing I can't close my eyes on is all that bitching about the world map, I for once didn't notice that Final Fantasy XII lacks a world map, maybe because it doesn't, for God's sake, you're walking on a huge world map all the time, but this time everything is in it's natural size. As for the battle system, almost the same as in the previous games, you have to wait the bar to fill up to attack, just this time you can actually walk during the battle, you can give you characters commands on your own or let them fight on their own, the choice is yours. Huge advantages are non random battles where you can actually avoid your enemies which makes traveling less tedious, and of course there are huge open spaces, something I'm particulary fond of. Not to mention that this game gives you feeling of accomplishment, everything's harder, from battles to collecting gil. Final Fantasy XII evolved the series in many aspects but still retained the same formula other Final Fantasy games have. And for those who think it doesn't feel like Final Fantasy, different story and characters, music, names, references, countless equipment, magic, monsters, summons, and creatures that appear through Final Fantasy franchise, Final Fantasy XII has all that, same as the rest of games in the series, maybe even more, no, definitely more, so I don't really see how it doesn't "feel" like Final Fantasy.

I don't think Final Fantasy games could stayed at the top if they sucked balls as you said, they're all great (except for Final Fantasy V), the only difference is, you may like it more or less, and remember, SquareEnix can't please it's every fan.

To me i have no problems with Ivalice. I used to love final fantasy tactics, but im more of a type of gamer that likes job classes and non-steampunk, non-future fantasy gamer.

as for XII. one subject i think a lot of people who dislike the game can agree on. Vaan, he and maybe another character did not need to be in the group at all. most of the characters were brought together cause of the plot entirely. Vaan is just a annoying teen who comes along for the ride.

the monsters is another thing how you have the same monsters with different colours. Red wolf,Brown wolf,Blue wolf..etc.

another part was the gambits system which many people seem to think it was auto pilot for gamers who are severely lazy. I know people get bored of tedious work and just want to advance the story. but its the tedious work in RPG's that made them what they are. i care not if i spend 2 hours a day to grind out more levels to be more prepared for that boss. like if you don't want to control more than one character at once go play final fantasy 13.

There are aspects of every game i like. but characters and story... well thats for you guys to enjoy that. im more of a technical imagination player where i like to pretend the story and not have someone drag me through the story.

To be honest, i stopped buying into the series since 9. no wait, i rented 9. 8 would be the last one. but that was not bought that was borrowed from the movie store and never returned... by the way i should get on that. i played each game through friends and decided yeah not worth buying. I was into final fantasy XI because it promised the old job classes, the game was fun for 3 years but i moved on, mainly it was not meant for solo, and i kept getting stuck with players from other parts of the world, and the auto translator was annoying as hell to use for the simplest of tasks.

the no random battles system was more for a realistic idea of the world, one thing i never got over which i loved in one FF game was 6 when you could have ANYONE! in your party and even if it was 1 person in the party, yeah it was that much harder but the experience you get was worth it and saved you many hours of grinding for exp. if that aspect was in 12, with job classes and allow me to rename my character i would have been a happy camper.

CG cutscenes... useless to me. there is nothing you can't tell me in text. are people not wanting to read anymore? i mean i know people would rather go out for McDonalds than cook, but come on what is wrong with reading. the only reason i see it there is to learn how to pronounce one of the characters names. at least with cut scenes in 2D sprites i could skip the texts to make it go faster.

Everyone keeps saying FF is revolutionary in every game they do. and yet from 1-5 it was not. who cares. technology is changing daily cause people seem to think the fast is not fast enough. Why does everything have to be edgy and different. its like hollywood douchebags who think its a good idea to take out "He-man" from "The Masters of the universe". If you want something that is deep and thought provoking go read a book in the library, or go out for a walk with your friends. i don't know why people look to video games for characters to relate too in order to feel the need to save the world or nation.

so instead of people getting worked up when someone puts down a game just remember its only a opinion. let the game be bashed. the inanimate object won't care, really it won't it does not need defense. These games will sell none the less cause of the Die hard fan base in north america and other parts around the world who refuse to stop buying thinking some how that those creators care what the fans think. when it comes down to it they don't plain and simple, you line their pockets with money. so the fact that people bought into the series they have every right as much as anyone else to complain.

So love the series or hate it. it will be here. if you want to try it out then rent it.

[ZantetsukeN]

Just a couple of things about XII

The Gambits may seem like you can just switch them on and sit back, but they aren't. Like the battle system in XIII, you need to think up combinations that will work, which will require you to either face the enemy or learn more about it. They need a lot of maintenence, like switching things that aren't working, so in effect, you are still fighting the battle for yourself. I think the gambits were a test drive for the developer with FFXIII's battle system, but there aren't a lot of differences really.

I can't see everyone's hate with Vaan. I thought he was a necessary character in the game, not as a lead, but at least he had a backstory. He doesn't annoy me either, so I can't see why he annoys people so much.

Finally, XII's story was probably the fullest story in an FF game. It was one of the few games that actually tells you everything about its world, the inhabitants, different species etc, and quite frankly, I was blown away by how much information is there.