FF began to suck balls?

[Zargabaath]

I was talking about the more recent games like FFVII-FFX because those are mostly my favorites. The initial games are bound to be a little generic. I know that these games share certain themes with other stories, but I was more talking about the execution and the plot. I haven't seen another game that is like FFVII, VIII, or X. Sure, they may share a similar theme with other stories, but their worlds and stories seemed pretty unique to me. Final Fantasy XII on the other hand did not seem as innovative as its predecessors. The world may have looked good graphically, but I did not see much that looked really unique about it. Also the story felt a little bland to me. Maybe it was because it was so much about politics. I'm not sure; it just did not seem as much of a "fantasy" to me. Also FFXII seemed to take a lot from the other games placed in the Ivalice world. These are all opinions, so neither of us are wrong in thinking that the story is either highly original and creative or just an average to maybe a little above average story.

If you say that Final Fantasy XII did not seem to be a "fantasy" then what do you consider Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VIII; regardless of your answer a fantasy is a fiction characterized by highly fanciful or supernatural elements (I used the definition that was most relevant to the series). Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, & Final Fantasy XII are all fantasies - there were automatic guns in Final Fantasy VII & VIII and space shuttles, missles, and a space station in FF VIII which were not in Final Fantasy XII. I'll also like to point out the various mechs/robots in Final Fantasy VII, VIII & X; Final Fantasy XII did have huge airships and fighter ships which were powered by glosair rings i.e., magic.

While I don't know about Final Fantasy VII being unique in the execution of its plot FF VIII and FF X did have uniqueness that I liked about them. There have been many war films done, yet the recently made films, in the scope of cinematography, shouldn't be discredited because the plot had been done before. Anyways there are parts of the plot that make Final Fantasy XII different from the rest.

Ivalice being a world already created was something that set Final Fantasy XII apart from its predecessors. The Ivalice shown in the FFT and Vagrant Story were set during the typical age of degression; Final Fantasy XII was set during the golden age of Ivalice. That is also unique to Final Fanatsy XII from its predecessors because most games in the main series take place during a time when their worlds were in a "dark age".

By the way, where did you stop in Final Fantasy XII?

I just think that the commoner thief wanting to improve the world might be a little overused. He may have had development, but he seems to be the generic type of character who is used in many different games and stories. Also I cannot see how Penelo could not be considered generic. Unless she has some great importance that I missed, or it is near the end of the game, she basically did nothing. She just followed along, and had little to no significance. I could be wrong about her, seeing as I did not finish the game, but I can't see her having too big of a role later on in the game either.

Vaan didn't want to improve the world, he wanted to improve the lives of Dalmascans, though that was ignsificant to what he most wanted to do - to become a sky pirate for certain reasons that I shall not name for possible spoilers. For possible spoilers I won't get into this further but there is a round-about way to say that he wanted to "improve the world". How many times is the story told through the eyes of a commoner who stays a commoner throughout the story and not some legendary, super-powered, more significant or a character with a mysterious past or existence. Vaan is quite different. Penelo, along with Vaan, gave the player the commoner's view of the story and that is where I think you are making an error in judging them. They are not meant to be all important to the story, just to be the eyes for the player and that is one thing different about FF XII from other RPGs - the main character was an observer and not important to the story. It was a different kind of story-telling. Your assumption that all characters must have a certain amount of importance to the story collides with the nature of FFXII where they changed things up.

I was referring to the majority of the later bosses. I don't think that it was that simple to become a power-house. You had to spend time to level all your materia especially if you wanted the extra copies. Also you had to find or work towards getting the best materia and weapons. This may just be me, but I still don't see a way to bypass having to level up your materia to get the extra copies to be a powerhouse. Also getting some of the higher end materia is hard to do or at least it takes time.

It took me around 55 hours for both playthroughs of Final Fantasy VII and my second time I did it quicker and was more powerful. The later bosses where push-overs and very easy to beat; to give you some perspective into how easy it was for me: Safer Sephiroth only had 5 or less turns against me. I did not have Knights of the Round or complex materia combos. During my second playthrough my materia kept leveling up, mastering and copied quite fast. And you don't need extra copies of materia to become a power-house - Final Fantasy VII is just that easy.

I'm pretty sure it is just with Squall. I remember when I usually play, Squall is at a much higher level than all of the other party members, and thus so are the enemies. I guess I could be mistaken, though. Also you cannot get a lot of the higher level spells early in the game to "break" the system. Even later in the game some of them are hard to find. With some of the bosses you aren't going to be able to defeat them easily just with limits. Omega Weapon can still destroy you even if you use your limits. What did make it easy were Holy Wars, but it is not easy to find them without playing the card game.

It was based off the party's level; Squall being higher would make the enemies level higher than the rest of the party. I'm not so sure about not being able to get higher level spells early in the game, also how early are you talking about too? My uncertainty on the aforementioned matter is due to the player being able to get some or all of their final weapons on Disc 2. Also, you can't get higher level spells, weapons or armour early in FF XII either and in FF VIII you can get their final weapons a lot sooner than the final weapons of FF XII. To "break" FF VIII doesn't take too long either - around 55 hours and you would have beaten the game with UBER-POWER. I don't know who is in your party, but with the proper junction set-up, Squall, Irvine, and Zell as your party you will decimate all foes except one, Omega Weapon, with just limits - they are that powerful and are able to dish out insane amounts of damage. On the subject of Omega Weapon, that dives into side-superbosses whom are found in many FF games that are there to test the players mettle and skill who have broken the game. The celestial weapons in FF X made the story bosses and some side-bosses pathetic, however the monsters in the Monster Arena, such as the Paragon would not be so susceptible to an easy defeat with just the celestial weapons- it took even more. While it takes more to defeat the optional superbosses that doesn't mean that the characters aren't broken for an overwhelming majority of the game.

This does not mean that it is going to be easy. I remember when I first played some of my characters were doing 9999 outside of trance and it still took me several tries to beat Necron.

The multiple characters that could do 9999 damage easily was only the tip of the iceberg. Add: auto-regen, auto-haste, some gems that protected against status-affects, auto-protect or auto-shell and you'll be pretty well set. But let me make it even more OP - equip armour that absorbs shadow damage and have Vivi cast Doomsday; Necron takes 9999 and your party is healed making you have two healers and one of them max damages Necron at the same time. As I said it is quite easy to be OP in FF IX and the other FF games but it appears you haven't been able to come across the set-up for them at all. Oh on a final note for FF IX it won't take that long to get to that set-up either: I was a higher level but I beat the game around 52 hours and only 20 minutes longer than my first time, talk about efficiency.

My characters were certainly not like this while I was playing the game. When I beat the game, I don't think my characters were even doing 9999 unless it was an overdrive or something. I still think this takes time because you have to get actually get weapons that would break the damage limit, and then you would have to level quite a bit to get enough spheres on the sphere grid. I would not say it is very easy. Some of the weapons are hard to get, and it will take time to get far enough on the sphere grid.

The celestial weapons you really need are just: Tidus, Yuna, Wakka, and Auron and with them you will crush everything and they are easy to get. The toughest maybe Tidus, but all that takes is skill to get his Sun Sigil. Training in Omega's Cave(?) makes gaining "levels" go by very quickly.

First of all, I don't like games where it takes a lot of time to "break" the system. If you can do just about everything without "breaking" the system, then I would rather not waste my time. Also like I said, I have not finished the game yet, so what I said is probably not accurate with the harder optional bosses near the end of the game. I kind of got sidetracked before. The point I was trying to make was more of the fact that it was not difficult to complete the license board, and once you do complete the license board, your characters are then exactly the same, just with different stats. You cannot say the same with other Final Fantasy games. With that line I was trying to say that this happens naturally in Final Fantasy XII, but not in any other game.

Completing the license board and getting the what is on the licenses are two totally different things. So you may have that license board completed but hardly any of the higher end materials. In the end you would still get the higher-end materials around the same time as in other FF games. In a majority of FF games your characters can be customized to do anything the player wants - you are having a hard time either accepting this or realizing this. In the previous games character "x" can do anything but may not be the best at what "x" was customed for, just like in FF XII where Penelo has the best magic power stat along with Ashe so they would be better at magic than Basch who has the lowest. Or Bash would not be the best tank because he has the lowest vitality stat. RPGs are number games I shouldn't have to repeat that. You may not be aware but how the weapons calculate damage changes from each weapon offering deeper customization (katanas factor in Magic Power so they are not to shabby for mage characters; some poles or staves, unsure, grant Magic Power and mp bonuses to the wielder to make a better mage). I suspect that you really haven't gone in-depth with the customization therefore leading you to the evalution that FF XII is bland.

[Treize]

If you say that Final Fantasy XII did not seem to be a "fantasy" then what do you consider Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VIII; regardless of your answer a fantasy is a fiction characterized by highly fanciful or supernatural elements (I used the definition that was most relevant to the series). Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, & Final Fantasy XII are all fantasies - there were automatic guns in Final Fantasy VII & VIII and space shuttles, missles, and a space station in FF VIII which were not in Final Fantasy XII. I'll also like to point out the various mechs/robots in Final Fantasy VII, VIII & X; Final Fantasy XII did have huge airships and fighter ships which were powered by glosair rings i.e., magic.

Fantasy

6. An unrealistic or improbable supposition.

This is the definition I was referring to. Maybe I should have used the word realistic. It is hard to explain, but the plot seemed more realistic than previous games and I did not like it as much. As I said, it is hard to explain what I am trying to say, so I hope you understand the point I was trying to make now. You seem to really have liked the plot, but people have different tastes, and I did not like it as much as the previous few games. I'm not saying that it is horrible; I'm just saying that in my opinion, it is worse than a majority of the other Final Fantasy games.

By the way, where did you stop in Final Fantasy XII?

I do not remember exactly where I stopped because it was probably two years ago now, but I do know that I had just about the entire license board filled out (as in I had the license and skill, magick, item, etc. =/), so I figured I must have been pretty far through the game. I tried to finish the game a couple of times since then, but I have yet to finish it. The game always turns out to be fun initially, but I eventually get bored and since the time I spend playing games is limited now, I move on to a different game that seems more interesting.

Vaan didn't want to improve the world, he wanted to improve the lives of Dalmascans, though that was ignsificant to what he most wanted to do - to become a sky pirate for certain reasons that I shall not name for possible spoilers. For possible spoilers I won't get into this further but there is a round-about way to say that he wanted to "improve the world". How many times is the story told through the eyes of a commoner who stays a commoner throughout the story and not some legendary, super-powered, more significant or a character with a mysterious past or existence. Vaan is quite different. Penelo, along with Vaan, gave the player the commoner's view of the story and that is where I think you are making an error in judging them. They are not meant to be all important to the story, just to be the eyes for the player and that is one thing different about FF XII from other RPGs - the main character was an observer and not important to the story. It was a different kind of story-telling. Your assumption that all characters must have a certain amount of importance to the story collides with the nature of FFXII where they changed things up.

I realize what you are saying, but that still does not change my opinion of the characters. I still do not like them very much. They were not very interesting, and I do not like how they had little to no role in the plot. If this collides with the nature of the game, then that is a problem and I'm going to like it less. Surely not every change that is made is going to be liked, and this is one of the changes that I do not like. I doubt that you can say that you like every change that was made in this game either.

Maybe this game just seemed easier to me because I battled too much in the beginning. I admit that all of these games can be easy, but Final Fantasy XII wasn't that hard either. Anyway I do not have much of a problem with the game's difficulty. If I compare to previous Final Fantasy games, none of them are very hard except for some of the optional bosses. My problem was that the gambit system allowed for your characters to fight without you and still win. I think it is the easiest when you can win without doing anything.

I understand that RPGs are a "numbers game," and I understand how the battle system works in Final Fantasy XII, but I still do not like that there are no differences between the characters besides the stats. I believe that it is better if they at least have some sort of special attack or some power that makes them unique. If they don't, it makes them seem more generic in my opinion. I'm going to make somewhat of an analogy here.

Sure, you can play Final Fantasy Tactics with all generic characters and be unstoppable, but isn't it more fun to play with at least some of the unique characters that can do special attacks? This may just be my opinion, but I still hold by it and feel that Final Fantasy XII's battle system makes the characters feel more generic than in previous games.

I still do not see how anyone can not see that Final Fantasy is going downhill. All of the games after Final Fantasy X, except for Final Fantasy XII have been bad, and Final Fantasy XII only seems to be average in my opinion. Also I still do not like the 3-6 year wait for average games... I understand that there were staff issues now, but still for this amount of time, the games should be better than what they are. In my opinion Final Fantasy used to be the upper class of RPGs, but recently it has started to fall into mediocrity.