final fantasy 7 paradox!!!!!

[chrono]

if you can bring some one back to life with materia(life 2)

then why couldn't they just bring Aeris back with materia

the paradox also applies to all games where some one dies but there is resurrection magic.

thoughts?

[Victoria]

Resurrection magic doesn't bring someone back from death. It only brings them back from unconscious/KO status. Death is a whole different thing all together and this has been discussed for ages. >_>

[Meigumi]

Well, umm, see.... When party members run out of HP (health points), they are, umm, what? Incurable? Fainted?
And Aeris was stabbed. With a sword. Phoenix Downs, Materia, or summoning Phoenix won't work. See, that's death--you can't cure that, can you?
Life 2, I think, is just a materia that brings someone back into the fight (By that, I mean they had no HP left, and now, they're jumping back in, kicking). Not like death.

=_=

[Polk]

My God, you've found the one logical inconsistency in Final Fantasy 7. Enjoy this freshly baked cookie.

[chrono]

Resurrection magic doesn't bring someone back from death. It only brings them back from unconscious/KO status. Death is a whole different thing all together and this has been discussed for ages. >_>

hmmm......lets think about this. why call it life 2 if it only brings you back from a unconscious/KO status life is the opposite of.....you guessed it death!

also if i am only ko'ed or unconscious why does the game end when my three characters are ko'ed(because i died right?). why cant the party members i am not using just come and wake me up from the ko.

am i not really dead when all my party members get ko'ed or am i just not able to come back from the ko in time so my opponent kills me?

so it seem that death is not a whole different thing(when that lovely music starts playing) and this is a legitimate discussion.

and to James Polk you just saved me a trip to subway for those delicious baked cookies. thank you kind sir

[GypsyElder]

hmmm......lets think about this. why call it life 2 if it only brings you back from a unconscious/KO status life is the opposite of.....you guessed it death!

also if i am only ko'ed or unconscious why does the game end when my three characters are ko'ed(because i died right?). why cant the party members i am not using just come and wake me up from the ko.

am i not really dead when all my party members get ko'ed or am i just not able to come back from the ko in time so my opponent kills me?

so it seem that death is not a whole different thing(when that lovely music starts playing) and this is a legitimate discussion.

NO, your unconscious. What do you think would happen If you were fighting some beast and everyone in your party got knocked out? Do you think the beast would simply leave because your KO'd? It would most likely kill you while your down. Also, if everyone is knocked out who is supposed to use life on you?

[Dodie16]

Well, you bring up a very interesting argument. It really doesn't make a lot of sense that the magic is called "Life" if it only brings your characters back to consciousness. I think that this spell got the name changed to "Raise" in a few other installments of the series, which makes more sense to me.

Oh and as for the whole "bringing Aeris back to life with a Phoenix Down", it's sort of a running gag for Final Fantasy fans (ones who played VII anyway).

[Pete]

The answer is simple. She died in a cut scene. It doesn't matter how beat up you get during the actual game. You see Emerald weapon literally stomp on your characters, and they're fine. But Aeris gets run through during a cut scene and it's game over for her.

It's a pretty standard videogame cliche by now. Even look at Metal Gear Solid. You shoot and get shot by hundreds of bullets in the span of a game, but the only ones that really count are the ones in the cut scenes. Those are movie bullets; they kill people.

[chrono]

NO, your unconscious. What do you think would happen If you were fighting some beast and everyone in your party got knocked out? Do you think the beast would simply leave because your KO'd? It would most likely kill you while your down. Also, if everyone is knocked out who is supposed to use life on you?

you answered one of my questions. you seem to be of the belief that when you die it is not death but a ko and that since your party members are ko'ed the monster just kills you.that seems reasonable but the game does not hint to this at all. to answer you last question you can only use three characters at a time so one of the other members of your party would revive you(that you are not playing with).

just looking for serious thoughts on the subject fellow ff players

[chrono]

The answer is simple. She died in a cut scene. It doesn't matter how beat up you get during the actual game. You see Emerald weapon literally stomp on your characters, and they're fine. But Aeris gets run through during a cut scene and it's game over for her.

It's a pretty standard videogame cliche by now. Even look at Metal Gear Solid. You shoot and get shot by hundreds of bullets in the span of a game, but the only ones that really count are the ones in the cut scenes. Those are movie bullets; they kill people.

you sir are correct

[GypsyElder]

you answered one of my questions. you seem to be of the belief that when you die it is not death but a ko and that since your party members are ko'ed the monster just kills you.that seems reasonable but the game does not hint to this at all. to answer you last question you can only use three characters at a time so one of the other members of your party would revive you(that you are not playing with).

just looking for serious thoughts on the subject fellow ff players

I don't think you need a hint for that, it's kind of common sense EDIT: wtf else would happen?

As for the other members of your team you can't really say, in FF's like VII and IX you only travel with three or four party members, the rest of the time you don't know where the others are, but in XII they're most likely all with you at all times since when you are KO'd you can immediately switch them in. In VII for example you can only switch party using PHS on world map or save point, kind of hinting that the other members are in a different area or further/ farther ahead or behind you in an area. So I think that would explain why they can't immediately help you if everyone is unconscious. By the time they get there you're most likely dead. Just my idea.

Kind of proof that the other members aren't with you all the time, would be that they get to places before you do like in VII.

[chrono]

I don't think you need a hint for that, it's kind of common sense

As for the other members of your team you can't really say, in FF's like VII and IX you only travel with three or four party members, the rest of the time you don't know where the others are, but in XII they're most likely all with you at all times since when you are KO'd you can immediately switch them in. In VII for example you can only switch party using PHS on world map or save point, kind of hinting that the other members are in a different area or further/ farther ahead or behind you in an area. So I think that would explain why they can't immediately help you if everyone is unconscious. By the time they get there you're most likely dead. Just my idea.

Kind of proof that the other members aren't with you all the time, would be that they get to places before you do like in VII.

something is not common sense because you designate it to be common sense(i hate when people do that).

but on the other points in this post i agree and concede

[ViveLaVive]

yea. not so much of a paradox anymore, eh?

[Petros]

Chrono, the answer is pretty obvious and doesn't need much justification.

The Battles are a REPRESENTATION of the fight, people in reality don't have hit points, they don't have magic points, they can't take massive blows and barely flinch, they DIE. The Status effect death is also known in other games as KO it is basically when they run out of HP, representing that they will be Knocked Out. And if "Life" Materia brought people back from the DEAD as such, don't you think there'd be a slight over population problem?

Also if they're not going to call it "Life" what else are they going to call it? "Wake Up?" "Re-Consious?"

[Che]

So if Life doesn't really give you life, does that mean the spell Death doesn't really make stuff die?

[Furore]

Yeah, it just knocks you out. =D
Pity you couldn't choose who died or something though, Aeris > Cait Sith.

[Che]

Yeah, it just knocks you out. =D
Pity you couldn't choose who died or something though, Aeris > Cait Sith.

No way buddy. Aeris was the most worthless character ever. She barely did any freakin damage, and I never used her. Then she died and I was like whatever (as far as a playable character goes). Stupid bitch.

[Furore]

Well Che, whatever turns you on.
While I think cats are pretty chill little creatures, I always preferred gals.

[Rocky]

It's pretty simple why Aeris died. She chose to die.

She forsaw what was going to happen to the planet and she knew that she had to sacrifice her self for the greater good of mankind. Upon the beliefs that the "spirits" return to the earth, aka what the game was talking about throughout the whole time, she realized that she has a strong spirit from being an Ancient and all, and with it she could keep the planet alive from the power of Meteor.

Besides, every time you use a phoenix down or use a Life2 spell, that person chooses to come back to life, because I mean who wouldn't right? Aeris chose not to because she knew that she was more valuable dead than alive. I remember a friend of mine having this discussion before, and he said that in one campaign that he DMed in D&D, he had a character that chose not to come back to life because if that character did, then they would be controlled and brainwashed by the evil protagionist. It's a bit farfetched, but it makes sense, and I think the same thing can apply with Aeris. She knew what she was getting into and didn't want to hurt Cloud, so that's why she left the party to do her thing.

[Che]

Well Che, whatever turns you on.
While I think cats are pretty chill little creatures, I always preferred gals.

Cats are ****ing sexy.

Besides, every time you use a phoenix down or use a Life2 spell, that person chooses to come back to life, because I mean who wouldn't right? Aeris chose not to because she knew that she was more valuable dead than alive. I remember a friend of mine having this discussion before, and he said that in one campaign that he DMed in D&D, he had a character that chose not to come back to life because if that character did, then they would be controlled and brainwashed by the evil protagionist. It's a bit farfetched, but it makes sense, and I think the same thing can apply with Aeris. She knew what she was getting into and didn't want to hurt Cloud, so that's why she left the party to do her thing.

/nod.

[Elaminopy]

Life and Life 2 are supposed to be Raise and Araise. They are that way in the Japanese version. The English translation just gave them the name Life.