Brutal metal

[Raider]

What do yta think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJJrIQsCTcQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJJrIQsCTcQ

i have to admit i do like those two bands and songs

what do you think?

[Sarah]

I have to say I'm a fan. This shit is awesome. HOWEVER, you posted the same link twice. So I have no idea what the other band could even be, but I'm damn curious.

I was actually listening to something somewhat similar in style when I came across this thread. Check out The Red Chord. I'm a big fan of their technical sounding riffs.

[T.G. Oskar]

Well...

First: both links are from the same group.

Second: the entire video is made of crazy chords and guttural voices. And believe me, I've heard my share of crazy chords and guttural voices. I must admit I'm a fan of speed metal (to the chagrin of Dragonforce haters), and the faster the better; but, I do realize the overall song must make some sense.

Look at Pantera, for example, before Dimebag's demise and pre-separation. They are the basic example of the kind of rock you'd probably associate with bikers, for it gives that feel. The music they make uses a combination of fast and slow riffs, where you can pretty much feel the vibrations of the chords provided you get the bass cranked-up and the volume enough to piss half your neighborhood. And at times they delved on guttural voices. But their music makes some sense. As in, you understand the lyrics and the riffs connect one with another, not trying several different tones without coherence.

These guys, IMO, look like a newbie band trying to impress with wild riffs and equally wild screams. There are some few bands that do it much better (I'd advice hearing some Nemesis; you'll be scared when you realize the guttural voice comes from a woman. That's mildly hot, if not entirely hot)

Then again, perhaps that's not their best sample. Try putting more examples, maybe you can convince me of a good song of theirs, but that link you provided makes them no justice.

[Sarah]

Even if they do seem to be a new band, I do like the sound. I'm a fan of dirty, chaotic, new sounding bands. I think it comes from having friends in bands, back in high school. Talk about chaotic and dirty sounding.. haha.

In regards to the voice, I view a guttural voice with no clear definitions of words as just an instrument. I'm sure the longer Suicide Silence is around, the more they'll clean up their vocals. It always seems to happen.

Here are a few other videos from them. (Possible lyrics warning... if you can understand them.)
YouTube - (OFFICIAL VIDEO) Suicide Silence - Destruction Of A Statue
YouTube - Suicide Silence - The Price of Beauty - OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO (WARNING: Gorey)
YouTube - Suicide Silence - No Pity For a Coward (Getting better)

Overall, I think they would be in my rotation of music, but not among my top bands. Probably not even close. Still like it quite a bit, though. Brutal indeed.

T. G., is this the Nemesis you were referring to? They seem okay. I'm always looking for female fronted bands. (I've still got some listening to do.)

[T.G. Oskar]

Well, with a bit more of info I realized something: they sound like Slipknot at the very beginnings, when they still hadn't experimented with Iowa and gone smoother with Duality.

Also, it seems "The Price of Beauty" has a slight bit more sense than the other songs. It was the only one I managed to hear completely; I closed the tab for the other two. Still, it's not very surprising: they still have a lot of work to do to improve, but if they try to make their gig the fact they can work weird riffs and use the guttural voices as an instrument...

If anything, the video/title/lyric? relation is smooth, and the titles are worthwhile, but it ain't something I'll be hearing over and over again.

And yeah...

it's this same Nemesis I was speaking

Notice how, despite how loud it sounds, it has some form of melodic repetition, a degree of order upon all that noisy riffs we all love and like. Plus her guttural sound is actually capable of being understood.

Also, there are quite the bunch of bands that have a lead female singer, and even more that have at least one female in the group (examples: Nightwish, Lacuna Coil, Kittie...heck, even Boston!!) They are just less known than the all-male bands. And usually good to boot; generally that female singer is rather hot to the sight.

Well, maybe not the Lander sisters.

[Clint]

I think I'd rather listen to music then listen to Suicide Silence, or any other "brutal metal" band. That band almost sounds like they wrote ten mediocre songs, and then threw them together as one piece of shit.

Brutal metal sucks anyway. It sounds like a shitty version of black metal, and black metal already sucks.

[Polk]

Ew. Gutteral vocals. The main reason I hate bands like this, and to a much greater extent, Job for a Cowboy. I hate pig vocals. I think they sound like shit. The music just seems pretty random, too. It's like, let's just copy and paste random guitar riffs, put some poorly done blast beats behind it, and have some dude scream over it with super harsh lyrics.

I was actually listening to something somewhat similar in style when I came across this thread. Check out The Red Chord. I'm a big fan of their technical sounding riffs.

The Red Chord? I remember seeing them a couple of years ago at a Halloween show with GWAR. I don't remember their music too much, but if I remember correctly, it wasn't bad. And the guitar player dressed up as a strawberry with Corpse paint on. He became my hero that night.

These guys, IMO, look like a newbie band trying to impress with wild riffs and equally wild screams. There are some few bands that do it much better (I'd advice hearing some Nemesis; you'll be scared when you realize the guttural voice comes from a woman. That's mildly hot, if not entirely hot)

They're completely different styles of metal (excuse me for sounding like a genre asshole right away). The band you're referring to is actually a Melodic Death metal band, much like Children of Bodom. Death core is completely different.

By the way, the band's name is Arch Enemy. The song's name is Nemesis. And yes. She's fantastic.

[T.G. Oskar]

They're completely different styles of metal (excuse me for sounding like a genre asshole right away). The band you're referring to is actually a Melodic Death metal band, much like Children of Bodom. Death core is completely different.

By the way, the band's name is Arch Enemy. The song's name is Nemesis. And yes. She's fantastic.

By all means, no offense taken. Though...if you noticed, both are subgenres forged (by lack of a better allegory...maybe composed?) from the same "parent" (smith? composer?) genre, which is meant to be Death Metal. What I did wanted to point out was: although those are technically different "genres", spawned (ah, much better) from the same main genre of metal, they represent two different takes to quality.

One is really good, the other seems to be retarded. Yet, I can't blame those who hear the second choice; eventually, I might be treated the same by other people. How's the saying: "one man's trash is another man's treasure"? Just tweak the meaning a bit and you'll understand my point.

Also, thanks for the clearing. Points out to how much do I listen to it. Or to any good metal bands around; usually, what I hear is game soundtracks, plus a few bands I've heard every now and then.

[Furore]

That was some crazy shit.
Not what I normally listen to, but interesting nonetheless.
And I think some people need to chill out a bit. Don't like a genre or a particular artist? Don't listen to them.

Oskar summed it up well with "one man's trash is another man's treasure".

[Raider]

sorry here are the one i meantr ot post plus others

YouTube - skinless-endvisioned

YouTube - The Dark Knight- Joker Interrogation Scene Spoof

less brutal

YouTube - Machinemade God - Place Taken

[Chez Daja]

I think I'd rather listen to music then listen to Suicide Silence, or any other "brutal metal" band. That band almost sounds like they wrote ten mediocre songs, and then threw them together as one piece of shit.

Brutal metal sucks anyway. It sounds like a shitty version of black metal, and black metal already sucks.

With all due respect, black metal and brutal metal only sound the same when they're playing it wrong.

I appreciate some Brutal metal, but a lot of the bands in the genre aren't really that great these days in my opinion anyway. I'd say Anaal Nathrakh has very slight influence from Brutal... But I know other people who don't see it.

Try Cannibal Corpse, they have similar vocal styling as well as crazy riffs. Be aware of sexually violent lyrics, though.

[Raider]

i never liked cannibal corpse,


i think to appreciate brutal metal you have to class the vocals as another instrument, people are always going on about how its not music its just noise and you can't call what hes's doing singing

1. It is music, music is defined by the listener
2 your not meant to be able understand what hes's saying
3 you can understand him just as welll as another rapping song

[/rant]

[Craven]

Just a little bit too much for me. ^^;;

2 your not meant to be able understand what hes's saying

That's probably why I didn't like it very much. I like to actually listen the lyrics, has a better sense of soul and meaning.

Anybody can scream, takes a real musician to put soul and meaning into their songs.

It's probably just not my cup of tea. ^^;;

[Raider]

fair enough, i like many things

but i disagree with that, not anyone can scream like that, it takes a hell of a lot to do it, i couldn't do

[T.G. Oskar]

i think to appreciate brutal metal you have to class the vocals as another instrument, people are always going on about how its not music its just noise and you can't call what hes's doing singing

Same thing other people say of all metal overall. Heck, that's what they say about all kinds of rock. It's a double case of observing things outside of the proverbial fishtank: even to most rock fans, Brutal Metal sounds like noise, instead of music. Vocals by themselves are an instrument as much as the guitar or the drums; they are crucial components of virtually any kind of music, from the beginning of time. Perhaps you're right in stating that the grunts should be perceived as part of the mood, the theme of the style of music, but that doesn't mean they'll be appreciated, because every person appreciates all instruments in a different way. While the grunts fit the mood, while those characterize the style of music, they don't seem to benefit them. You can't seem to find any melodical attunement between the grunts and the disparate chords, the kind you notice in most other bands.

Observe it this way:
For a rock band to be a rock band, you need a few things: guitar, bass guitar, drums. The style you represent depends greatly on what do you add, on where do you innovate...heck, even the speed of the riffs.

The lower ends of the rock spectrum would be roughly placed betwee pop rock and alternative. Alternative is very soft, melodical, usually adding acoustics instead of electronics. Pop rock is similar, but a bit more catchy, with a mood of party so to say.

Going up the spectrum, you find things such as the various cores, old-school rock and glam bands, all the way to metal ballads. You tend to feel the vibration coming from those instruments, and the voice of the singers often resides within high tones.

Then, comes metal. To be considered metal, it needs to comply with a set of requirements, most notably: faster riffs than other forms of rock, a variety of pedals to provide different kinds of riffs with purely electronic instruments, amongst others. Now, I ain't a music historian, but I'm sure you'll agree that generally metal sounds "faster" and "louder" than most kinds of rock.

Metal itself is subdivided into sub-genres:
--Speed/Thrash/Power. These bands usually deal with near-impossible riffs and drumbeats, focusing on speed of interpretation over the lyrical content. Metallica and Dragonforce lay on this group.

--Death/Black. If anyone's to blame for the bad rep of metal (speaking in terms of the huge amount of negative promotion; see to it that it works the way it intends), these are the responsibles. The themes of darkness and taboo permeate these groups, where the spectacle they provide and the lyrical content oft supersede the speed or the precise execution of the chords and beats.

Brutal Metal falls outside and in-between both. You can say they took the no-nonsense speed of the first genre, and the grunts and violence of the second, and attempted a revolution in sound; sadly, the end result is they took the wrong things or took things on the incorrect proportion.

Speed metal and power metal depend on execution, on timing. A bad chord, a chord plucked too early or too late ruins the general mood of the song. Brutal Metal sought to make that distortion their spearhead. Not good.

Black and Death Metal use grunts as part of the mood. If they are to interpret vicious and bloodthirsty berserkers, or demons of the lowest pits of Hell, grunts help to visualize that image. Grunts by themselves sound stupid and make no sense. Not good.

If they were to fix the distorted execution, they fall into Speed or Power Metal and the grunts will be seen out of place. To fall into Black or Death Metal, they need the image, and those bands seem to mock the imagery instead of embracing it.

There's nothing bad on listening the bands or trying to experiment: Metal was born out of experimentation. But, sometimes, trying to pull off success with something that might be rather considered a failure doesn't seem to aid the genre itself. The bands don't attempt to portray the image of an instrumental band, where even the vocal chords serve as an instrument and not as a lyrics provider. The grunts are meant to convey lyrics, and since those aren't understood, you can't truly enjoy the words and the song itself seems out of place. The bands try to portray an image of excessive violence, but even violence has a rhythm; the same rhythm they lack.

As a form of personal experience, I listen to metal while visualizing a battle. The battle isn't an actual, real-time speed battle, but one that fits thematically such oft-loved and even more hated series such as DBZ and the Matrix. Each beat signals a strike with a weapon or a technique; when the beats accelerate, trying to match each strike with a martial art strike helps you to visualize the rhythm. Each strum of the chords helps you to visualize the flow of each strike. Now, if you were to listen other bands, you'd see how easily it is to "observe" the rhythm of the music, of the song; hence realizing metal, and rock in general, isn't what some people think (noise) and more what they intend to exalt (music)

Try doing that with Brutal Metal. You fall out of rhythm so quickly, the flow of the imagined battle cuts abruptly.

To end this possibly needless and half-asleep-written rant, I'd like to point out something: if you listen to metal, you probably listen to it because of the rhythm. Humanity feels comfortable with rhythms and sequences; pure and unbridled, undistilled chaos is a concept few humans are capable of comprehending, let alone enjoy. That may be the reason why I feel uncomfortable with Brutal Metal; I don't find a rhythm in the songs. That also doesn't mean that you should feel discouraged to stop listening to it.

[Dimi]

Oskar, you're my hero.

Originally posted by Chez Deja
Try Cannibal Corpse, they have similar vocal styling as well as crazy riffs. Be aware of sexually violent lyrics, though.

I love Cannibal Corpse. Hammer-Smashed Face, I Cum Blood, Blood Drenched Execution, Coffin Feeder, and I Will Kill You are my favorite songs. I usually don't listen to music like this. But they're a pretty good band.

And that clip you posted is okay. I can see where Chez is coming from Suicide Silence having a similar sound to Cannibal Corpse. But I prefer Cannial Corpse then SS's. Ain't nothing better then waking up in the morning to hearing a distorted sound about decapitation and eye sockets while drinking a nice cup of coffee.

Originally posted by Mona Lisa Overdrive
3 you can understand him just as welll as another rapping song

*gasp* No. Just no dude. Never use "rap" and "metal" in the same sentence let alone saying that it's similar to a rap song.

[Raider]

i was slaggin of rap

and oskar....................... wow


thinking of it like that it seems different, but i also thing teh fact that it has no rythm adds to teh just brutal and fell of, going back to that suicide silence song, bludgeoned, he switches between really low pitch grunts and really high pitch screaming, once again as you said it makes it feel out of place but at teh same time it adds to teh effect of teh mish mash of the style.

oh and sorry for the batman spoof, i have problems with my links XD

[Chez Daja]

Good post, Oskar, although I'd like to point out a couple of things...

Black and Death Metal use grunts as part of the mood. If they are to interpret vicious and bloodthirsty berserkers, or demons of the lowest pits of Hell, grunts help to visualize that image.

What are you talking about? I listen to plenty of death and black metals bands and most of them don't even use refences to these types of things.

Let's remind ourselves that black metal and death metal are polar opposite, mostly in terms of vocals. Black metal uses higher pitched sounding screams and grunts and riffs that make less sense.

Death metal use lower sounding growls and more complicated riffs that are easier to understand that those of black.

Whilst I see the rest of your post was well-thought out and pretty much accurate, I have to point out that black and death are far from being the same thing. I don't like when the two are placed into the same category when it is clear to people that listen to metal everyday that they're different.

Other than that, kudos to you for writing that massive post.

[Jin]

i think to appreciate brutal metal you have to class the vocals as another instrument, people are always going on about how its not music its just noise and you can't call what hes's doing singing

That's not the problem. The problem is that it's a shitty instrument. Some people can pull it off and still sound good (although 90% of the time their clean vocals sound better), but in general, it sounds like crap. Cannibal Corpse is a good example. They sound like a goat being thrown into a wood chipper. That's probably what they were going for mind you, but it really doesn't excuse that they sound awful. I mean really, if I started a band and had everything else down save the vocals I could just as easily pay someone who can't sing to perform crappy vocals and claim it's necessary to set the correct mood. And it doesn't matter how hard it is to do; that doesn't make it sound good.

Craaaap.

Oh, and before whining starts, I should note that the above post pertains to my opinions and not a universal truth. "I hate the bands you like!"

[T.G. Oskar]

First and foremost, I think I forgot to mention this: Daisy rocks. Seriously. I Am Not Making This Up.

Now, going to where I wanted...

What are you talking about? I listen to plenty of death and black metals bands and most of them don't even use references to these types of things.

Let's remind ourselves that black metal and death metal are polar opposite, mostly in terms of vocals. Black metal uses higher pitched sounding screams and grunts and riffs that make less sense.

Death metal use lower sounding growls and more complicated riffs that are easier to understand that those of black.

Whilst I see the rest of your post was well-thought out and pretty much accurate, I have to point out that black and death are far from being the same thing. I don't like when the two are placed into the same category when it is clear to people that listen to metal everyday that they're different.

Had to fix something out.

Tells you how "dedicated" I am to the genres themselves. Perhaps it's because of the reputation of the few bands that do use that kind of imagery, but as far as what I have heard, I had deducted most if not all bands use such. Since I'm not a music expert (I actually mentioned that on my post but I used the term "historian" which was rather appropriate for the explanation), I can't say where exactly do bands like Atreyu, Children of Bodom and Dimmu Borgir would fall upon. Heck, it's a bit risky to determine the actual genre of a band such as Cradle of Filth, which does use that kind of imagery (amongst others such as H. P. Lovecraft's CTHULHU Mythos). I spoke of what I heard, and I could presume most bands do intend such imagery to be present.

Then again, that could be influenced by the resident metal listeners, who both loved and satirized that kind of imagery

So...to "remind ourselves", we had to know such terms already. Thanks for pointing that out, ma'am Moderator.

...Honestly, I thought that a half-asleep rant would be full to the brim with inconsistencies, but it seems I've hit the nail pretty much with the right hit, although a bit slanted (the reference ze Chez points out) Then again, pointing this out will attract those who do find that out, so...

[Chez Daja]

Tells you how "dedicated" I am to the genres themselves. Perhaps it's because of the reputation of the few bands that do use that kind of imagery, but as far as what I have heard, I had deducted most if not all bands use such.

No, you are right. A lot of them do use it. Just not most. I must've misunderstood. I "originate" from Eastern Europe so most of my music comes shipped over from there... Or uh, Amazon.

Since I'm not a music expert (I actually mentioned that on my post but I used the term "historian" which was rather appropriate for the explanation), I can't say where exactly do bands like Atreyu, Children of Bodom and Dimmu Borgir would fall upon. Heck, it's a bit risky to determine the actual genre of a band such as Cradle of Filth, which does use that kind of imagery (amongst others such as H. P. Lovecraft's CTHULHU Mythos). I spoke of what I heard, and I could presume most bands do intend such imagery to be present.

For sure. For bands like that, I usually think it's wise to determine genre by album... I don't listen to those, though.

Then again, that could be influenced by the resident metal listeners, who both loved and satirized that kind of imagery

Ah yes, the more popular "METHAL. I LURVE KILLING N BLUDZ" personality.

[Lilium]

I didn't like the band at first when I first heard them, but I kept them on my iPod, and over time, they sort of grew on me. Especially since I started to get more into Death, Black, and Brutal Metal (not as much this one, though). Their videos are good, vocals just crazy, and the music would be great to thrash to in concert.

They do have some... unique videos, though. They are better than a lot of brutal metal out there, though (in my opinion, anyway). I like Cannibal Corpse some, but they're not really one of my favorites. Same goes with Aborted.

[Eternal Romeo]

YouTube - Scent of Flesh -Deform in Torture

YouTube - Aborted - Meticulous Invagination

YouTube - Hypocrisy | Eraser ((One of my all time favorites.))

YouTube - DAATH - Subterfuge


YouTube - Metalocalypse/Dethklok- Duncan Hills Coffee Jingle ((For Laughs)).

[Raider]

ROFL^

This is a good song, but the onky vid could find was teh muppetts


Mutant Christ - Cryptosity

YouTube - A muppet death metal special.

Job For A Cowboy - The Rising Tide

YouTube - job for a cowboy: the rising tide

Bring Me The Horizion (love this band)
YouTube - BMTH Bring me the Horizon - 'Pray for Plagues' Official Video
YouTube - BMTH Bring me the Horizon - For Stevie Wonder's Eyes Only (Braille) Live Video
Not so heavy
YouTube - BMTH- Chelsea Smile

The problem with brutal metal is that it tends to cover a few genres (death metal/death core, grindcore, Trash Metal etc.) This is why i find it so hard to comment on it because i have different tastes.

[ZantetsukeN]

I don't like much of the 'older' Death Metal, I'm more into the newer wave of Death Metal bands. Bands like Bring Me The Horizon (seeing on Thursday), Black Dahlia Murder, Suicide Silence, Job For A Cowboy (seen) and Annotations of an Autopsy (which is starting to be called 'Fringecore' over here in the UK, whether it is or not anywhere else I don't know).

Aside from that I love Cradle Of Filth (I live near Dani Filth!) and Gojira (heaviest band ever).

[Angantyr]

Not really a fan of Death Metal and the videos posted are further reason what puts me off it, nothing personal I just don't like the vocal style. When it comes to Death Metal I'm more into stuff like Belphegor:

YouTube - Belphegor - Hell's Amabassador

More into Doom and Black Metal.

[impureangel]

i love suicide slience i saw them at the mayhem festival them and the red chord tore it up i also just saw belphegor with amon amarth and ensiferum about 2 months ago great show

[supershiva11]

I do like screaming, up to melodic death metal screaming, i just despise when i can't hear what theyre saying. Some types of music where you can't hear a word they speak - grindcore, deathcore , porngrind, br00tal death metal, deathgrind, goregrind, death growl, Xtreme metal. phew.


edit : Aman amarth is awesome, and even though i can only hear some of the words in his vocals, the guitar work, drum work and bass parts are outstanding.

[Musashiden]

Suicide Silence is the shiznit.

If not for the fact that they are hypnotically headbang inducing, then surely for the fact that they used to put Family Guy snippets before every song. The Red Chord is the balls as well. Black Santa FTW!

Though, generally I like my death metal a little more abstract.

Death - Lack of Comprehension
Cynic - How Could I?
Atheist - Elements

The stranger the better .

[Psybadek]

I never really got into that style that much, however I absolutely LOVE Killswitch Engage