Brotherhood of Doom v. The Masters: Open Q&A

[Anomaly]

It's 12:46AM here. I just got home about fifteen minutes ago, time enough to check my mail, kiss the wife, and get my bastard computer started up.

Aside from that, I've had the entirety of a drudgery filled day to contmplate the current situation we seem to find ourselves in. I've been able to read a few posts, and draw a few conclusions. I do however have a few questions.

First off, ToroMor, where are the BOD's balls? I'm well aware not all of your members possess a pair, however I had previously attributed this to them being female, not honorless cowards. When going to war, one must be prepared to meet ones own demise. That you find even the prospect of your destruction so unthinkable is completely laughable in the face of the realities of war. Remember, when we first set out, we wanted to make this battle as like a real war as was possible in the parameters of an RPB.

Another thing I set out from the beginning was that I wanted LocoColt to judge this affair. You wanted Toph. (or have you forgotton?) We were able to get you to settle on Colt, but when he didn't rise to the occasion we were both left in limbo for a third of a year. Like a lot of wars, the real winners and losers don't seem to be judged until LONG after the fact.

Yet we have a decision set down on us, all the same. A decision that I thought was a death nell for the Masters, namely the changing of the judge to your original selection. You see, I thought Toph would rule in your favor, not because of any specific allegence to you, but because when I first established The Masters on this forum she was dead set against our formation and later tried to shut us down for inactivity and a scarcity of our members.

This should have played into your hands. I should've protested as soon as she was selected to judge by the administration.

I didn't however. I didn't for the same damn reason that you didn't raise a fuss when Mage was pretending to be mister assistant. Because you and I both WANT THIS OVER. It was great that we fought to the end, but this war is meaningless if it does not REACH that damnabley elusive conclusion. So I counted down the days to my death, and my death has come.

You get to kill me ToroMor. you get to rip me to tiny shred, or whatever else you feel is a fitting end to my current incarnation. (though I hope you can come up with something more creative than your patheticaly pointless semi-annual Ragnaroks)

But one way or another, I get to write the Brotherhoods death certificate.

I will not accept any other ruling than the first ruling, no matter how ill advised you think it is. Bringing in another judge at this point would only further prolong this debacle, disrespect the adminstrations decisions, and bring into question ANY resulting judgement that might follow this one.

This is my decision on the matter.

If you want to negotiate for a Draw, you can contact me via PM instead of thundering around in this thread and trying to get my attention. This way, I'll actually get a little pop up that tells me you'd like to talk.

[Bryan 2.0]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...right now. Anomaly, I respect your skills and leadership qualities. I've wanted to engage in battle with you ever since I noticed these qualities. Unfortunately, in this war, I was unable to participate due to things going on in my every day life preventing me from having the time to take part.

At one point, I told myself that I was finished with RPB's. I've stayed in the shadows for this entire battle, unable to participate.

It appears now that this entire war has resulted in confusion and an unclear result. I am not happy with this and I haven't voiced it until now. I want this done properly, with clear results.

There was nothing that could bring me from my decision to no longer RPB. However, your recent post has changed that entirely, Anomaly. I now have the time and thanks to you, I now have the motivation.

So shall we try this again? One final battle. You and your best against Toromor and myself. The winning team determines the outcome of this war. It will be easy to judge and the results would be quick. I respect you, yet, I would give anything to battle you. Just you and I. If I can't do that, allow me to slay your best, your strongest.

My hands literally begin to tingle with the thought of you and I battling to the death, though, due to my rank (which I respect), it is not my position to do such a thing.

There are members of your camp that I do respect (albeit a small number), however. I must make this clear. Shelus is at the top of this list. I haven't spoken with him in quite sometime, but I will never forget his skill. He should be commended for that.

[ToroMor]

As I said before, I WILL NOT let our club be destroyed on the basis of this absurdity and nothing will change my stance. Everyone seems to understand that besides you, Anomaly. You even start throwing dirt at us? That's what I call dishonorable. But in respect to our glorious fight, I will restrain from throwing back. There is nothing to negotiate. Either you accept the proposal for a draw or you do not.

If we don't agree with the Masters about a draw or a re-judging, I will object any actions against the Brotherhood. The staff would have to shut us down against our will.

EDIT: Btw, we both wanted LocoColt. I never wanted Toph as a judge.
EDITx2: Merlin, thank you for your proposal. I would really appreciate if you could re-judge the controversial fights. But as of now, it seems like we can't agree on that. If we would get a _real_ verdict that would state our defeat, I would instantly accept it.

[Anomaly]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...right now. Anomaly, I respect your skills and leadership qualities. I've wanted to engage in battle with you ever since I noticed these qualities. Unfortunately, in this war, I was unable to participate due to things going on in my every day life preventing me from having the time to take part.

At one point, I told myself that I was finished with RPB's. I've stayed in the shadows for this entire battle, unable to participate.

It appears now that this entire war has resulted in confusion and an unclear result. I am not happy with this and I haven't voiced it until now. I want this done properly, with clear results.

There was nothing that could bring me from my decision to no longer RPB. However, your recent post has changed that entirely, Anomaly. I now have the time and thanks to you, I now have the motivation.

So shall we try this again? One final battle. You and your best against Toromor and myself. The winning team determines the outcome of this war. It will be easy to judge and the results would be quick. I respect you, yet, I would give anything to battle you. Just you and I. If I can't do that, allow me to slay your best, your strongest.

My hands literally begin to tingle with the thought of you and I battling to the death, though, due to my rank (which I respect), it is not my position to do such a thing.

There are members of your camp that I do respect (albeit a small number), however. I must make this clear. Shelus is at the top of this list. I haven't spoken with him in quite sometime, but I will never forget his skill. He should be commended for that.

You had two chances for this already. One you ignored, and the other you walked out on. No, as much as it pisses me off not to be the one to put you and your leader to rest, it would be unfair to my Masters to toss away this judgement for a chance at vain glory. (though an extremely clever move on your part)

You want to fight me? You can do it to avenge the BOD after your club is destroyed. For now we operate on the parameters already agreed upon in the pre-war planning.

As I said before, I WILL NOT let our club be destroyed on the basis of this absurdity and nothing will change my stance. Everyone seems to understand that besides you, Anomaly. You even start throwing dirt at us? That's what I call dishonorable. But in respect to our glorious fight, I will restrain from throwing back. There is nothing to negotiate. Either you accept the proposal for a draw or you do not.

Then I do not. I thought that was pretty clear. I do not accept a Draw.

Yes if I were in your position I would not accept defeat, but you throw dirt on yourself by acting as if you do not deserve defeat AT ALL. My Masters fought well and they won this war. No if anything it would be unfair to them to have their victory announced and then ripped away by your groups contemptious whining. If you don't want to negotiate for a Draw then I do not see where you're in a position to demand one, or anything else, and actually expect to recieve it. I have never given in to anyones demands.

If we don't agree with the Masters about a draw or a re-judging, I will object any actions against the Brotherhood. The staff would have to shut us down against our will.

And you don't think our destruction would be against our will had we lost? Face it ToroMor, we both knew the risks we were taking going into this. We'd both be sore losers, no matter who lost or under what circumstances. Thats the kind of personalities we both have, and they are necissary to being an effective leader.
Take your defeat with some pride...and come back, if you like, for your revenge.

EDIT: Btw, we both wanted LocoColt. I never wanted Toph as a judge.

Perhaps not you specifically, but I remember when this was first boiling her name was the one your side first suggested. Though I apologize if this was not something handed down from your glorious self.

Merlin, thank you for your proposal. I would really appreciate if you could re-judge the controversial fights. But as of now, it seems like we can't agree on that. If we would get a _real_ verdict that would state our defeat, I would instantly accept it.

Not a chance. I will not accept any further judgement on this battle and will ignore the results of any further such judgement.
I didn't step in and say no to Toph and its led to all of this. I won't make the same mistake twice.

[Bryan 2.0]

You had two chances for this already. One you ignored, and the other you walked out on. No, as much as it pisses me off not to be the one to put you and your leader to rest, it would be unfair to my Masters to toss away this judgement for a chance at vain glory. (though an extremely clever move on your part)

You want to fight me? You can do it to avenge the BOD after your club is destroyed. For now we operate on the parameters already agreed upon in the pre-war planning.

If I must wait in order to take you on, one on one, then that will unfortunately be the case. However, the offer was made and it still stands. It is you who walked away from it this time.

Even if it means taking on each and every one of your Masters, if there was a chance to get to you, I would take it in a heartbeat.

[ToroMor]

I just want to stress one more thing: if I would remotely think that we would have been inferior in the battle, I would not hesitate to accept death for even a millisecond. Even in the face of an unrightful and false verdict. That's the truth, no politics. And - honestly - if the dice would have fallen into our favor (and it is a dice at best), I would have accepted the Masters' proposal for a draw, given the circumstances. Just a personal comment. Anyway.

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A verdict that has been altered forth and back cannot be accepted as final, or even a rightful verdict at all.

Thus, I officially appeal against this "verdict".

Since the Masters are not willing to accept a draw or a re-judgement, I have nothing more to say.
Now it is up to the staff to solve the situation. Give us a rightful decision or shut us down.

[Victoria]

I just want to stress one more thing: if I would remotely think that we would have been inferior in the battle, I would not hesitate to accept death for even a millisecond. Even in the face of an unrightful and false verdict.

So.. what I understand is this: (And my god, what a huge ego of arrogance!)

Regardless of the verdict being rightful, true, false, unrightful, you would accept death.

Yet you label this as false and unrightful. Shouldn't you accept your loss then, from what you had just said? >_>;

I don't know if it's really just me, or the way the things are going on lately, but you seem to just not want to lose, at all.

From what I've read, you say you do not deserve to lose AT ALL, regardless of the type of verdict. At least that's the tone I get.

I mean, you admitted you don't even ponder the thought of your side losing.
That's not honor.. that's just bigoted arrogance. And that disappoints me.

Sure, I know you're probably shocked that you lost to someone... it happens.
But with the experience of loss, you gain strength.

(As Vivi had just said, BOD is not used to losing. Well, it would be very handy to become used to the experience, as it allows you to gain strength in your skills.)
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And another thing. This is not the staff's responsibility. We did not endorse this, nor did we start this. So don't bring us into this for a second time.
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Seriously. You act as if I've changed things over 100 times, when in fact it was only once, and then I firmly decided to return to my original decision. That's all.

You're really throwing things way out of proportion, but that's just my take on this.
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And, by going by your proposal, I will indeed go by the original verdict and shut down the club as agreed by the pre-war discussions.

"But wait! Just have Merlin re-judge the whole thing!"

...That is true. That could happen. However, this is just a repeat of what happened weeks ago. Except instead of no results, there are "bad" results. It saddens me that no one sees this except a few others.

So as a word of advice:

LET THIS END AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE O_O
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Honestly. Just let this die. Do you have any clue how much respect I have lost for some of the BOD members by reading their battles? And even by post-actions? Akira, Toro and Bryan are really the only members left that I respect. But Toro's is lowering ever so slightly.

[ToroMor]

Do I speak Chinese? I made it clear that I think we should have won. I also made it clear that I would have accepted a proper verdict. And I clearly stated that I would have EVEN accepted defeat on the basis of this excuse for a verdict IF I would remotely think that we were inferior. But that's not the case. Is that understandable?

No leader would accept this crap.

And I will not even start to comment on your polemics. Let me instead quote someone else. I'll censor some parts.

Anomaly is a ***.

First Toph says The Masters won. Then Toph says noone won. Then Toph says that his original verdict is crap and based on mininterpretations, but that he will stick to it anyway. Yet the *** still claims to have won honourably and commends Toph sticking to his guns no matter how shitty they may be.

Everything is said and done. I demand a proper verdict.

[ToroMor]

So you shut us down already. And on my accord?? You didn't even have the balls to do it on your own accord.
Ok, you pitiable excuse for a judge, shove this up your ass.

honestly I think a lot of things would have to change on this board before a war would be a truly viable thing

That's the point. It was a mistake to trust anyone here at all. Perhaps I should have known better.

I'm done here.

[Prodigal Madness]

Do I speak Chinese? I made it clear that I think we should have won. I also made it clear that I would have accepted a proper verdict. And I clearly stated that I would have EVEN accepted defeat on the basis of this excuse for a verdict IF I would remotely think that we were inferior. But that's not the case. Is that understandable?

Everything is said and done. I demand a proper verdict.

No offense, but you basically just said you're not going to accept anything other than BoD wins, because it's your firm belief that you should have won. No verdicts will be proper until it's said BoD wins - for whatever reason.

I can understand if you complain you should have won. I can understand saying the way judging was done was ****ed up. I cannot understand someone being pissy being pissy, and saying they'll continue to do so, because they didn't win and MUST win.

On the other hand, if you just got tossed a win, would you honestly give a shot at losing it, for no reason other than to give the other team a shot at "stealing" your victory?

[Zardoch]

I'm sorry Toro, but this is just sad. Toph isn't gonna be backing down from his decision from what I've read so honestly you're all just huffing and puffing. It's becoming childish that shames even me. I'm sorry you can't handle a loss whether it was "right" or not.

[ToroMor]

I'm sorry Toro, but this is just sad. Toph isn't gonna be backing down from his decision from what I've read so honestly you're all just huffing and puffing. It's becoming childish that shames even me. I'm sorry you can't handle a loss whether it was "right" or not.

Hail Anomaly!

I just want to get one thing clear. It was my decision alone to object the "verdict", not the Brotherhood's. So you call me a dishonorable eunuch. I'm not sure if this is serious or rhetorical. Anyway, I'm going to explain my stance to you in this private note.

It's not really serious. It's meant as an attention grabber. You know all about that kind of thing.

First, Toph voted in your favor. I did not complain at all, although I clearly saw that the judgment was crap. And although Toph wrote in his "verdict" that a tie-break was possible (which was contradictory). That alone would have sufficed to seriously question the "verdict". But I did not.

Same on my side of the fence really, though everything was pretty confusing since most of my inforamtion was coming from second and third parties.

Second, Toph changed his mind and stated that it was a draw. I thought, after all, this would perhaps be the best for both sides because no one was glad with the crappy excuse for a judgement.

Same, except I was pissed off that we'd have to devote more time to something I essentially feel is over and has been over since October.

Third. Believe it or not, at the very time that I was writing my confirmation about the tie-break matches, Toph changed his mind again. Just "to get over with it".

That sucks...baddly, and I sympathize with you for it. It's kind of how I feel because I heard it was going to be a draw when I was writing up my acceptance speech for the victory.

This is clearly unrightful. We have all the right in the world to appeal against this "judgement". I would not hesitate to accept doom, if delivered on the basis of something, anything that could remotely be called a judgement. But this absurdity is clearly out of the line.

So. No one of the Brotherhood of Doom was ever saying that he/she would not accept the judgement. They were all waiting for my comment.

Yes, you have every right to appeal, just as if the roles were reversed, you'd have every right to say we were cowards for appealing. It's clan politics, pure and simple, and with our clans mutually on the line, no I don't really fault your words or actions and I hope you don't fault my own.

We do what we must to preserve our followers...and its obvious that this has moved onto being between you and I as leaders as only the most brazen and outspoken of our number have attempted to swing the judgement by their own accord.

It was a tough decision though. My pride as a warrior was conflicting with my obvious reaction as a leader. In my place, at that moment, would you have accepted destruction on the basis of such a farce? I could not. And I never would.

I was hoping that the Masters had enough pride and honor to take the hand that I was offering them with the proposal of a mutually declared draw.

That's all I wanted to say. If you still think this is dishonorable, we're done.

Neither of us are entirely happy ToroMor. I'd say maybe we'd have better luck next time, but honestly I think a lot of things would have to change on this board before a war would be a truly viable thing.

We're not going to get the kind of results we want, no matter what we do now. I could grant you mercy and kick myself later regardless of the results for taking such a risk out of nothing but my own vain sense of honor.
I could simply stick to my own decision and accept that you will fight against it. Really whatever results from that I'd have no right to complain.
Or you could accept your defeat and vow revenge.

At the moment though, we're not even at a stalemate. We're still warring...and it remains to be seen who, if anyone, will be the victor in this situation.

So much for that.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

After putting seven months of my spare time into this war, I am expected to swallow this crap? Never. I am leaving TFF out of protest against this bullshit.
I am sorry for all the participants. It is because of you and our great battle that I have tried so hard to bring this to a befitting end. But I can't take this crap from Toph (and initially, LocoColt) any more.
To those who think that I am just unable to lose: think whatever you want, I don't care any more.

Farewell.

[Anomaly]

...*sigh* why do you have to drag private matters into this as well?
I already said I understand your upset, but your starting to act out of desperation now and I don't like to see it. I don't like to see the person who gets to kill my perfect incarnation sniffling like this. Take a page from Bryan's book. There will be other battles.

But if you really must leave out of protest, at least kill my character before you go. I wouldn't feel right about this if you didn't take that measure of retribution from me.

Like it or not, we are in the closing stages everyone.

If you have a kill post to write, I suggest that you do so now. If you do not write one, I assume the characters will still be regarded as 'dead' but their owners will be able to decide how for themselves.

Once you have a Kill post prepared, IM Toph so that she can unlock the thread (or perhaps easier, she can post the kill herself into the locked thread.)

As for the Annihilation post, since Colt is not here to write it up the intro, I'll handle the entire thing, unless Toph feels like devoting more of her own time to this. I will take into account all Kill Posts and try to give a comprehensive description of the battles outcome before writing the fall of the Brotherhood.

I will be doing this no later than March first, regardless of the amount of kill post that are posted. If thats not a good time frame, speak up now, I'm easy...but I will be wrapping this all up soon.

[Merlin]

I really fail to see the logic in leaving a forum because you're upset with one or two people. I think BoD members should understand that more than anyone. How much shit did they put me through over the years? If its not one group its some other group, or individual trying to start something with me when I was a staff member. Do I take offense at it or take it personally? Nah. You don't know me. No matter what you say about me, its irrelevant. Its part of internet life. There's people you don't like everywhere. I have better things to do than stress myself out over something someone said to me on a forum. But thats just my two cents. ^_^

EDIT: In other news, has anyone bothered to contact Cesar since he got back? Toph was only made the judge because Fuzz couldn't get a hold of Cesar. He's the one you all wanted to judge it originally. If you talk it over with him in a calm manner, he'd probably work with you all on it.

[Sir Kenneth]

The Brotherhood is not afraid to lose. Had we lost and had we been given a proper argument as to why we lost, we would not have made a fuzz. Upon reading, I sent an inquiry to Toph concerning some things I would like for her to explain. It was not a complaint, it was not a request to change the verdict, I just wanted to know why only certain parts of the ruleset we had agreed upon had been taken into consideration when judging the battle between Nekoness and I, and where he had read that Nekoness was walking on water.

Toph never replied to my pm, but what I did see when I logged on to TFF after work, was that the verdict had been changed to a draw, and that we were to get a final result by other means. Then a little while later Toph changes her mind and went back to her original verdict, though acknowledging that the verdict was crap and a lot of things had been missed. Had we however been given a verdict and had our judge been able to explain the verdicts and not changed it twice, we would not have complained. All this matters very little now though. We are leaving TFF and I don't see any BoD member coming back unless something drastic is done about this. If The Masters want this victory, then so be it. It seems like Toph is supporting you in that. Atleast I know that the BoD would never have taken it.

Peace out.

[Victoria]

I just remembered I have to post saying that I am not an admin or moderator of this particular forum, so I have no powers to open/close threads.

Also, I pretty much believe that the BOD would have taken it. And I did reply to your PM. I said "Oh, you're right. I'm sorry about that. I'll skim over the other matches to check things out." and you even REPLIED to that. So I do not see how you said I didn't reply.

And actually I think Bryan isn't leaving TFF. Because you know.. he's a staff member here. >_>; (That, and well... he hasn't quit yet..)

I'm also talking with Cesar right now on facebook. I asked him what his results were after I told him what mine were, and he said "The results would have been the same either way."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...ki/results.jpg

So I can only presume that his overall results matched mine. So he, too, came with the results that TM wins. As far as the individual matches go, however, I dunno. I'll ask if he remembers the names.

Although I'm not sure if you'll even accept his results at this point in time. Do you?

[Anomaly]

*shrug*

All I can say is I'm glad this was the first war. A lot of mistakes have been made, but I think a lot can be learned from this for the sake of future wars.

I just remembered I have to post saying that I am not an admin or moderator of this particular forum, so I have no powers to open/close threads.

I guess we won't have kill posts then, if neither side is willing to push for them. I'll write the Annihilation Post up just for the sake of closing this all out. It really doesn't look like anything else is going to come from this other than a few members bickering back and forth like a bunch of kids at a high school football game about who won, how dumb the ref was/wasn't, and if they'd gone into overtime they'd sort things out (despite the firm belief that the ref was dumb). It's a lot of fuss over nothing really.

[LocoColt04]

All I can say is I'm glad this was the first war. A lot of mistakes have been made, but I think a lot can be learned from this for the sake of future wars.

I could probably quote a HUNDRED other things from this thread.

There are dozens of points I want to touch on.

Hundreds of things I want to say -- nay, need to say.

An apology is worthless, so I won't even try.

So, the reason I choose this specific line to quote is simple: I now know what time of year NOT to plan the end of something this epic. When you manage in retail and are accident prone, the holiday season is a piss-poor time to do anything else.

Bottom line from me; The Masters still would have won in a 3-2 victory. Take it or leave it, but the terms were agreed upon, and I told you all MONTHS ago to find a TEAM of judges to sort through this if I could not return. Obviously, pointing this out is moot, but I still stand by it.

EDIT: Oh and FYI everyone curious: Before Cesar disappeared for months, he told both sides that if he wasn't back soon to find another judge. They never did. Fuzz finally tried to solve it himself even though he had no clue wtf was going on. So who's fault is it that the BoD left? THEIR OWN. Don't blame the staff b/c you didn't bother to find new judges. As mentioned, Syd, Psiko, Toph, Andro, hell even me could have done it. Nobody asked us. Woo. All this over something so easy to solve. Go figure.

I distinctly recall suggesting Syd, Psiko, and Spike, with Merlin and Andro as possibilities.




I would be more than happy to host another war between any interested factions at a later date... but if the writing is to occur in the same time frame, I know now that I will be unable to judge. The summer months are the only time of the year I can really dedicate myself to such a project. The timing was poor, and even though I had no control over my personal circumstances, the fault is still my own for saying I would do something and then failing to follow through.

This is my mess, and I'm not too thick to realize it.

I never did find the DVD that has all my role-playing stuff on it. Six years' worth of information is MIA until I find it. That really pisses me off.

[Victoria]

Well, he said that if he doesn't work tomorrow, he'll get to this/sort it out by then. So we'll see about all that. And yeah, I remember from the beginning, you all said something about this being the first war and to learn about where things went wrong and such.

So, all we can do is wait to see if he goes to work tomorrow or not, and then talk about what went wrong where, etc.

[Victoria]

Check inside your DVD drive. =P
Or.. maybe.. Well. It has to be in some sort of cd sleeve or case. Track them all down and check contents of all blank dvds (unless you labeled it, in which case, don't do this. =P)

Hmm.. There are only so many methods as to help track it down. xD;