Your thoughts on bullying

[Pete]

I noticed a lot of things that were just wrong with the video. For starters, it should have been obvious to the school, that when the video was aired, it was clearly from the perspective of that little weasel, much like a Jackass style kind of prank, like "Oh, I'm gonna go screw with this fat kid, and you can videotape it." That should have been one of the biggest giveaways that the whole thing was planned from the start, meaning that the weasel and is equally weaselly friend should have both gotten into trouble as well.

I have no sympathy for that little kid. As stated by several people, including representatives of the fat kid, he has been bullied by the weasel for a long time, and decided to take matters into his own hands. I feel like he should be commended for this; he didn't do the typical thing for a middle schooler. He didn't go into daddy's closet and find his pistols and shoot up the entire school. He went and just kicked the bullys ass. He stood up for himself! This is one of the lessons that people don't teach their kids anymore, and it's an absolute travesty.

The fact of the matter is that kids should be allowed to stick up for themselves, because there won't always be a teacher or parent to break fights up and to stop bullys from bullying. It would be an ideal, no doubt, to have bullying exterminated, but it's a part of life, and has always been. It doesn't make it right, but it's more or less indoctrinated into society.

Long story short, I think that it's a valuable lesson to fight back against a bully. It teaches something that you really can't learn in a classroom or any of these hyper-sensitive emotional classrooms they have today, where everyone is awesome and everyone shits rainbows. It teaches self sufficiency and self confidence, in that if you stand up to a bully, you can really do anything if you try.

I'm not advocating that we teach kids that the best solution to every problem is a left hook, but rather that sometimes, you just need to stand up for yourself to make your life better.

[Dan558]

I don't really want to get into a big argument but people who think ignoring bullies or telling authorities completely solves bullying are very ignorant. If you think it is that simple you have never faced real bullying, you had a misunderstanding or at most an isolated fight. Either that or you went to some carebear school where bullies are scared off by a soft breeze. Ignoring works to a small point but is hardly a full-on solution for everyone, everywhere.

I have done plenty of fighting back and snitching yet it never stopped until probably about highschool where I saw very little bullying at all. Even if it were true that telling or ignoring bullies magically caused them to stop 100% of the time it didn't seem to stop it from following me everywhere I went because I wasn't a star athlete or an incredibly good looking guy. The only thing that I have found to help is to just hang around someone who gets bullied even more but that's hardly an ideal solution because bullying dosn't stop its just misdirected. Fighting back is more of a temporary solution. First you can't fight everyone, as already shown, you'll get in trouble to the point where it won't be worth it. You'll get just as many "shiners" cept they'll all be on you rather then spread out between several bullies. Besides dumbass bullies always want someone to bully eventually they'll get back around to you, typically they are too dumb to weigh any "risk" you tried to instill in them. Besides unless you are a world class boxer, more likely then not you will be labeled a "spaz" which gives them another reason to bug you, some people just like to see a show and a fight is just that.

Bullying causes people to act differently and can certainly "cause" disorders at least in an indirect way. The potential is in everyone. If someone is depressed, despite having physical/neurological symptoms it's not like babies are instantly depressed from the moment they start breathing, these things surface and a life of stress due to bullying can easily cause bodily stress which makes these disorders surface just like the opposite can keep it at bay. How someone is raised can also easily affect this, if someone has a sanctuary to cool off, return to a "normal" setting this can help. ALSO parents can just as easily teach children to use the magical "ignore them" cure people rag on about. How effective parents are at providing these things varies between families and even environments. People can be conditioned to be very different be it good parenting or asshole bullying.

Bullying should be viewed a lot more harshly then it currently is. I should probably take the magical "ignore it" advice and ignore this thread full of bully sympathizers, hopefully it works, then again there's the whole "fight them" crowd pulling me the other way and I should fight to convince people of the right opinion but it would likely invite more fighting as I've already seen proven in this thread. I've already kinda said I would leave this thread but my morality on the subject is strong.... sigh.

Edit: Best example ever, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, happens to people from wars and disasters there is most definitely a form to some extent that bullying can bring on or "cause". Tell those people their problems could of easily been dealt with by turning the other cheek or blame them for always having it inside them.

[Heartless Angel]

I don't really want to get into a big argument but people who think ignoring bullies or telling authorities completely solves bullying are very ignorant. If you think it is that simple you have never faced real bullying, you had a misunderstanding or at most an isolated fight. Either that or you went to some carebear school where bullies are scared off by a soft breeze. Ignoring works to a small point but is hardly a full-on solution for everyone, everywhere.

Nor is bullying a full on problem or everyone everywhere. Your thoughts and experiences are no more universal than anybody else's. Nobody ever said telling somebody or throwing a punch would magically solve all of your problems. There is no magic solution for dealing with douchebags unfortunately. However ignoring them, and doing whatever is required to get them off your back does alot of people good, and in some cases does solve their problems.

I have done plenty of fighting back and snitching yet it never stopped until probably about highschool where I saw very little bullying at all. Even if it were true that telling or ignoring bullies magically caused them to stop 100% of the time it didn't seem to stop it from following me everywhere I went because I wasn't a star athlete or an incredibly good looking guy. The only thing that I have found to help is to just hang around someone who gets bullied even more but that's hardly an ideal solution because bullying dosn't stop its just misdirected. Fighting back is more of a temporary solution. First you can't fight everyone, as already shown, you'll get in trouble to the point where it won't be worth it. You'll get just as many "shiners" cept they'll all be on you rather then spread out between several bullies. Besides dumbass bullies always want someone to bully eventually they'll get back around to you, typically they are too dumb to weigh any "risk" you tried to instill in them. Besides unless you are a world class boxer, more likely then not you will be labeled a "spaz" which gives them another reason to bug you, some people just like to see a show and a fight is just that.

Most people don't see much bullying in high school. because the useless little shits who do that kind of thing have usually dropped out, been expelled, or discovered drugs and longer have the time or desire to bully anybody. In rare cases, some of them even grow up and stop being stupid, but that one is sadly uncommon. Successfully ignoring them until that point is usually enough to get by. Most everything is a temporary solution. Suspensions, parents grounding their kids and anything else that's a reasonably appropriate punishment isn't going to magically reform an asshole into a good person. He'll back in a couple days to be an asshole again. That's life. Occasionally classic conditioning does sink in, and fighting back or involving authority figures is sufficient, but not always.

Bullying causes people to act differently and can certainly "cause" disorders at least in an indirect way. The potential is in everyone. If someone is depressed, despite having physical/neurological symptoms it's not like babies are instantly depressed from the moment they start breathing, these things surface and a life of stress due to bullying can easily cause bodily stress which makes these disorders surface just like the opposite can keep it at bay. How someone is raised can also easily affect this, if someone has a sanctuary to cool off, return to a "normal" setting this can help. ALSO parents can just as easily teach children to use the magical "ignore them" cure people rag on about. How effective parents are at providing these things varies between families and even environments. People can be conditioned to be very different be it good parenting or asshole bullying.

Bullying alone is very very rarely enough in itself to trigger anything major. People with serious psychological disorders usually have gone through an entire lifetime of ****ed up experiences, most of which dwarf being picked on in 6th grade. Bullying is at best a possible contributing influence, which along with other things can trigger (not cause) a personality disorder in somebody who already had an abnormal mental state.

Bullying should be viewed a lot more harshly then it currently is. I should probably take the magical "ignore it" advice and ignore this thread full of bully sympathizers, hopefully it works, then again there's the whole "fight them" crowd pulling me the other way and I should fight to convince people of the right opinion but it would likely invite more fighting as I've already seen proven in this thread. I've already kinda said I would leave this thread but my morality on the subject is strong.... sigh.

Here's where we hit a snag. Your conclusion is a normative claim, not a factual one. That means to make a valid argument you require at least one normative premise. Even if everything you've said up until this were absolutely true, you've not given an argument for the conclusion that anything should be done. In the end, you're arguing from your own subjective morality. If that's all you have to drive your opinions, then yes, you probably should ignore anybody who disagrees, because you're never going to be able to argue to them that yours is the 'right opinion' as you put it (and rather arrogantly at that considering you haven't even come clsoe to proving it). That's the problem with moral arguments, they only really convince people who already agree with you. Unless you can prove an absolutist theory of morality, you can't go much farther with a moral argument.

Edit: Best example ever, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, happens to people from wars and disasters there is most definitely a form to some extent that bullying can bring on or "cause". Tell those people their problems could of easily been dealt with by turning the other cheek or blame them for always having it inside them.

You're seriously comparing the atrocities of war to having your lunch money stolen in elementary school? Wow, just wow. And go figure, not all vets have PTSD, so once again, there isn't a universal causal relationship between it and any individual experience. Which once again suggests that it's something in the person that causes a given experience to lead to a given result.

To get back to the original question of who is at fault for bullying...

Again, nothing causes anybody to be any specific way, people just are a specific way. Bullying is the fault of bullies. Victims being passive enough to let it happen is the fault of victims. Authority figures sucking at life too hard to stop it is the fault of authority figures. The problem does not lie exclusively in one person's hands.

Systems not being good at stopping them is just an environment in which bullies can suceed. They'd be bullies by personality even if they couldn't get away with bullying, they just wouldn't be as effective at messing with people, which one can make a moral argument for to suggest that that's a good thing, but morality really isn't my cup of tea, so I won't get into that.

[Dark-Knight Luna]

Bullying is a good thing, and while I could go in depth into the psychological or sociological reasoning behind that, I'm not much of a big poster, so I'll scratch the surface and answer any questions you have thereafter.


NOTICE: This is not an invitation to criticize my opinion or argue with me on it or bring in your "morals" crap, or whatever you goody two-shoes call it. Because, frankly, I don't care unless you show me a masters or doctorate in psychology.


Anyways, the reason I say this is simple, it either builds you up, breaks you down which ends in renewal and betterment, or breaks you down and ends in one less weak willed mind on the planet. I myself was bullied, quite a lot, and can honestly say if not for that bullying, I'd be significantly worse off.

As for whose fault bullying is, I can also say from experience, it's the teachers for never LISTENING, and the principal's for never being harsh enough with punishment. It's the parent's fault for raising a child incapable of defending itself and the parent's fault for also not listening should the child say anything. And ultimately, it is the child's fault for allowing it to happen to them in the first place.

Anyways, this is my friend...a recent picture, unfortunately, and he's 17.

SPOILER!!:

My friend here has many saying they have a sudden urge to just punch him in the face when they see him, which is quite unfortunate for him.
Nonetheless, because of the constant bullying and physical abuse, he's probably the most intellectual critical thinker I know.
And I still punch him sometimes too... <3 Playfully, of course. He flinches like crazy xP

[smurphy]

I frankly dont see how bullying can ever be considered a good thing. And justifying it with some Darwinian bullsh*t doesnt help. The strong are strong so they pick on the weak until they become strong enough to stand up for themselves or wither away(the nice way of putting it). I didnt think we as a race were at the pre-Neanderthal stage still.

While I wont go so far as to agree wholeheartedly with Dan558 that bullying can cause disorders as such, I agree it can cause severe behavioral changes in the victim. The most common of which is said person becoming increasingly withdrawn. And most likely remaining with a timid personality for a long time after the bullying has stopped. So thanks to a completely unnecessary hardship these peoples lives are changed. Since they are affected socially, I would think the change is for the worse.

I dont think any excuses can be made for bullies either. The fact that they showed any hint of maliciousness in the first place shows what they are capable of. Just because they may be suffering hardships themselves it serves as no excuse. Many children go through hardships without resorting to malice. And bullying isnt something that can be taught. How many influences in the average childs life depict unwarranted aggressiveness? This malicious behaviour is something bullies develop themselves.

And a lot of people here have touched on how passive people are in reporting bullying. I would go so far as to say for a large minority of people someone bullying another person is like a spectator sport. Something that they find mildly entertaining. Its a shame that the rest are too apathetic to do anything about it.

[Selcopa]

Somebody took Philosophy 2010 Critical Reasoning

:: edit by Meier :: Add more content.

[Dan558]

I'm starting to wonder what people really think bullying is in this thread. It seems that several people believe its something that happens occasionally and rarely is more then words. Do they think that bullying goes to the extent of calling people "smelly-head" and thats what traumatizes people so they become introverted or even psychopathic?

It seems that people severely underestimate the extents bullying can be. I vaguely remember HA or someone else calling him a sociopath so basically his absence of empathy can't really put him in touch with the victims or even the hormonal ape-like bullies. You may claim that having a purely mechanical, outside view makes you very un-biased but bullying is a very emotional thing, factor out that and you miss almost the whole point, therefore you can diagnose all you want spouting off endless psychology babble about the "biology" of it all but you hardly "know" the situation. Same goes for people who havn't experienced bullying.

Also, as stated that it's all biological that kids like the Columbine ones go crazy I would suggest that whether or not it is "caused" by bullying is the important thing but rather that it does "trigger" these dangerous and destructive disorders. Since its so important to define these two terms, its meaningless when considering the results. Biology is something that is tough to fight, almost impossible without the use of drugs, so I believe all the blame placed on the victims is WRONG. It's the assholes who relentlessly pick on others that are the people who are the problems that should be dealt with. If we as a people ever hope to be as advanced as we believe we are, this primitive Darwinism of the physically strong picking on the weak (you hardly see the chess clubs being the typical bullies but surprise surprise the football team fits the profile perfectly) should be abolished. If anyone should be snubbed out in this day and age its the thugs i.e. the bullies. Suggest that it should be the weak who fight for themselves but things on the playground work differently then they do in "the real world" of adults, parents, teachers and society. They should do their part but they rarely do instead they would rather blame the "weak", again, reinforcing the cycle.

[Heartless Angel]

I'm starting to wonder what people really think bullying is in this thread. It seems that several people believe its something that happens occasionally and rarely is more then words. Do they think that bullying goes to the extent of calling people "smelly-head" and thats what traumatizes people so they become introverted or even psychopathic?

It can range between something as insignificant as kids calling each other smelly-heads, to straight out assault. Unless I misspoke or misread other claims, I don't think anybody here has suggested that bullying itself is rare. Dickheads are pretty much everywhere. What I suggested is rare, is people affected by it deeply enough to where they become introverted or sociopathic. Most kids are bullied at some point in time, we're all the new kid at least once. Who the bullies are, who the victim is, and how they deal with it is generally what determines whether it'll continue.

It seems that people severely underestimate the extents bullying can be. I vaguely remember HA or someone else calling him a sociopath so basically his absence of empathy can't really put him in touch with the victims or even the hormonal ape-like bullies. You may claim that having a purely mechanical, outside view makes you very un-biased but bullying is a very emotional thing, factor out that and you miss almost the whole point, therefore you can diagnose all you want spouting off endless psychology babble about the "biology" of it all but you hardly "know" the situation. Same goes for people who havn't experienced bullying.

I openly admitted to being one. And while it's true I don't have an overhwelming ammount of empathy for others, I have been in the position myself. My view isn't strictly outside, but outside views are the ones I choose to base my arguments on, because I deal in the world of facts, not emotions. That isn't to say there's no value to emotions, but when arguing for facts, you can't really apply them. I was disputing a factual claim, which is why I took up a factual stance. Emotions tend to distort the views people have on things, often aggrandizing things that aren't quite as serious as people make them out to be. Yeah, bullying can be serious, bullying can trigger a variety of personality disorders, and generally cause stress which leads to usually temporary symtoms similar to them. On average, 1 in 4 kids are bullied. However 1 in 4 people are not sociopaths or mass murderers. That isn't to say bullying never leads to that and isn't in any way a problem, but it isn't quite as horrible as people seem to be making it out to be. Having had my own experiences with bullies, and hearing others here alone, one can establish that it doesn't effect everybody the same way.

One thing I really think needs clarifying here is the difference between bullying and youth violence. A very very large ammountof bullying is nothing more than kids being assholes calling the wierd kid names, pushing him around, posting nasty comment son his facebook, maybe knocking him down at recess or shoving him and making him drop his books in the hallway. Minor shit, things that kids really ought to just man up and get over. Shit like 6 kids jumping a kid and trying to set him on fire is obviously significantly more serious, shit like that you can't relaly ignore or just put up with. There's a very fine line between what's just 'boys will be boys' behaviour, and serious problems that need to be dealt with. The term bullying in itself doesn't make these distinctions.

Also, as stated that it's all biological that kids like the Columbine ones go crazy I would suggest that whether or not it is "caused" by bullying is the important thing but rather that it does "trigger" these dangerous and destructive disorders. Since its so important to define these two terms, its meaningless when considering the results.

Now there's a nice pragmatic claim. In this case I can completely agree, what I was arguing with with the 'psycho-babble' was a factual claim which I had reason to beleive was incorrect. Pragmatically speaking, yeah, pretty much the same thing, one problem we can fix, the other's kinda set in stone. Again the distinction between serious bullying and the kinda shit that kids just do because they're asshole kids needs to be made when deciding how to handle the problem.

so I believe all the blame placed on the victims is WRONG.

Now I'll have to make a distinction between cause and fault. Who the victim is and how he or she handles things is definitely a part of the cause of things goin horribly wrong like Columbine. Yeah, if you remove the bullies that mae them go crazy, they wouldn't have gone crazy, sure. On the reverse side however, if you remove the mentally unstable individual and repalce him with one who doesn't take them seriously, you also have no crazed shooter. In terms of causality, both are responsible. In terms of whos to blame, the blame should naturally be shifted to the one who had a choice in the matter, in this case the bullies. They shouldn't have been bullies right? At least that's what it seems like to most people. One can also say the crazed shooter had the option of changing their ways and not being a crazed shooter, but we tend not to see that side, because morality points the finger at the kid who was an asshole to begin with. At least some notions of morality do. This is why I stay the hell out of moral discussions, logically uncharted waters devoid of any absolute facts is a bad place for me to go for a logical argument.

[Dark-Knight Luna]

Bullying is quite frequent, assuredly. To think differently it to outright be ignorant and should stop posting in this thread, it's as simple as that. I admit I have several disorders because of what happened, but disorder is way more fun than order

[Pete]

Luna, you're gonna have to add a bit more to your posts in ID.

I honestly think that all parties are responsible for the cycle of bullying, and yet, it can go so much deeper than school and to so many levels beyond it. Obviously the bullies are wrong; they shouldn't be abusing the kids that they do, and in the ways that they do. However, you have to ask the question of why they act the way they do. It's not a justification for their actions, but you have to wonder if things are going on at home, if there's a dad present, is there abuse, or any number of things that might just be a cry for help. Kids act out when they want attention. And then again, some people are just assholes and like to prove they're bigger and stronger.

The kids bullied are also at fault. Why don't they fight back, or tell someone. Too many victims tend to fall into the victim complex, where they just play up the entire "woe is me" card. Maybe there are issues at their homes too. Maybe there's nobody there to teach them how to stand up for themselves or to fight back. Maybe there's nobody there to give a kid some self confidence and basic social skills. Maybe they're just afraid that if they say something, the problem will get worse.

The school systems are to blame, for the most part. School systems often ignore bullying until it's too late, and videos like the one posted show up, or far worse events like Columbine happen. There are also too many teachers who don't give a shit about anything, and just show up to pick up their paycheck and enjoy being untouchable due to tenure and the ridiculous power of the teacher's union. Principals are afraid to make too rash decisions for having the possibility of being sued for expelling a bully, plus they can hide under the veil of ignorance, which really isn't an excuse, but it works just as well. The schools should take reports of bullying seriously, and should report them to the parents of both the victims and bullies, and the parents of the bullies should punish them as such.

It's also the parents fault, probably moreso than anyones. The parents should be teaching their kids self confidence as well as responsibility for ones actions. Parents and their kids should have an open enough relationship, so that they're both able to be honest and open with each other. Unfortunately, such things take time and effort, and apparently that just doesn't seem to happen anymore. The parents should be there to both support and punish their kids for their actions, depending on them, and shouldn't just reward little Timmy because he stopped jamming crayons in his nose. They should also just be there to hug their kids and to toughen them up a little bit. Kids should be taught that they're not God's gift to the world, because when they grow up thinking that they are, they wind up being assholes and going to Duke.

Long story short, we should be looking at ways to stop bullying, and not continually pointing fingers

[sayian]

Last summer i seen this one chubby kid was scared of this older kid the kid was bullying him on the basketball court... i pulled him aside and i said......"man y u scared of him, look, about 2 feet in front of you theres your imaginary line... the next time he crosses that line dont speak,,,, swing as hard as u can as fast as u can and aim at his head and knock him the fu** out"...... that worked for me when i was his age.. some kid was gonna hit me again and i was scared shi*less, but i closed my eyes and swong... then i looked up and saw him on the floor

[Dark-Knight Luna]

Or he misses and gets the shit knocked out of him, seriously. Why would you lower yourself like that? Sure, violence is fun, and sure, I partake in it, but then you're just as guilty as they are, AND YOU HAVE NO HELP WHEN THEY BEAT YOU SENSELESS.

It's smarter to just call the cops. Extreme, true, but they deserve a little time in juvy.

Also, I don't post huge blocks because it's senseless to repost my opinion, I may as well just debate other people's opinions now.

[sayian]

lol... hold on.. u mean to tell me that he should say "hey please wait here for a sec while i call the cops on you". and thats gonna work? idk where u from but here (in the real world), u cant ALWAYS rely on some one to come to your rescue. violence is NOT fun, iv never been a fighter and nor was that kid, but we all atleast once in our lives will experience being cornered and in the heat of the moment when someone is comming to hurt you, YOU BETTER DO SOMETHING. had i not taken a swing at that dude hed whip my a$$. if i missed, maybe id have enough time to swing again, or learn that next time swing faster..... reguardless,,,, id NEVER lower myself and/or advise anyone to sat and cry for the cops.... sorry homie but u keep that openion.

[Furore]

Good call on the police.
I work as security so I need to call them in to fix up any problems beyond what my role entitles me to respond to and I've even had an instance where they took upwards of five hours to arrive while I was holding a guy covered in blood along with a blood soaked hammer.

Really, if you want something done you gotta do it yourself or spend your time wondering why no-one will take care of it for you even if it's their job. I suppose some places might have faster police response times though. :/

[Linus Li Lelouch]

Bullying... I always hated it.

I use to be bullied as a kid, until I lost it in the 6th grade which it pretty much stopped forever, the seeds of a badass were planted and now their in full bloom.

I'm not one to go into theories, but there is no reason for bullying and yeah unlike some of you, I'm going straight into blaming the parents. These parents nowadays and back in the days don't know how to raise their kids, so in turn their kids become renegades and shit like bullying happens. Other people blame it on movies and videogames and other stuff which is also nonsense. You have got to be a pretty weak minded person to let anything on TV that fiction or even a videogame guide your young life into bullying other people. Sorry I find it utterly retarded. I played videogames, watched violent movies, and stuff since I was 4 years old, never once did I try to re-enact anything. Why? Simple fact is I had more common sense than that, and my mom would beat my ass if I did anything stupid (goes into parent raising).

On another note, for the people that says bullying early on toughens them up.... that's bullshit, the bullying nowadays isn't bullying, it's assault and battery, and in some cases it's aggravated assault. I was bullied back in the day, but the shit nowadays is on another level. Kids beating the shit outta other kids, jumping on their faces, putting them in the hospital, and threatening them to not come back to a certain place because they will kill them.

Honestly I feel the kid who killed himself, I mean no one else is going to do a goddamn thing, parents are effing worthless, the cops are limited to just taking statements unless the punk ass parents press charges (which that rarely happens). If I could I'd make a law about bullying with severe punishment, shit like that annoys me, then you people agreeing saying it toughens them up is even more full of shit, let me toughen your ass up then, or better yet, send me your kids and I'll toughen them up for you since your too lazy to effing do it yourself.

No one dares bully me now, it's game on if I ever see it again.

My thoughts on bullying

[Heartless Angel]

I'm not one to go into theories, but there is no reason for bullying and yeah unlike some of you, I'm going straight into blaming the parents. These parents nowadays and back in the days don't know how to raise their kids, so in turn their kids become renegades and shit like bullying happens.

To some extent I'll agree with that, though not so much specfically parents as politically correct pansy ass society in general. There was a time when teachers could haul off and smack a kid upside the head for being a douche. A little classic conditioning at a young age tends to teach lessons rather quickly. Now people don't even accept some parents who use that sort of dicipline, let alone a teacher or anybody else, if a teacher tried that today there'd be a lawsuit for sure.

On another note, for the people that says bullying early on toughens them up.... that's bullshit, the bullying nowadays isn't bullying, it's assault and battery, and in some cases it's aggravated assault. I was bullied back in the day, but the shit nowadays is on another level. Kids beating the shit outta other kids, jumping on their faces, putting them in the hospital, and threatening them to not come back to a certain place because they will kill them.

Then you admit that what you're arguing against is in fact assault, and not bullying. The thread fails to make the dsitinction between the two. The term bullying isn't strictly referring to assault. Bullying toughens kids up. Assault does not. There's a huge difference between the two as you seem to be aware.

Honestly I feel the kid who killed himself, I mean no one else is going to do a goddamn thing, parents are effing worthless, the cops are limited to just taking statements unless the punk ass parents press charges (which that rarely happens). If I could I'd make a law about bullying with severe punishment, shit like that annoys me, then you people agreeing saying it toughens them up is even more full of shit, let me toughen your ass up then, or better yet, send me your kids and I'll toughen them up for you since your too lazy to effing do it yourself.

And now you're trying to force your view by threats of violence? Isn't that kinda hypocritical since that seems to be the very thing you're arguing against? Or at least what you claim to be arguing against, though you yourself have made the distinction between bullying and assault. While you seem to be aware of the difference, you don't seem to acknowledge it when making your argument here.

[Linus Li Lelouch]

Then you admit that what you're arguing against is in fact assault, and not bullying. The thread fails to make the dsitinction between the two. The term bullying isn't strictly referring to assault. Bullying toughens kids up. Assault does not. There's a huge difference between the two as you seem to be aware.

Indeed, you are 100% right, that goes into what I see whenever I go to visit my siblings still going to school, the original form of bullying is gone from my neighborhood.

And now you're trying to force your view by threats of violence? Isn't that kinda hypocritical since that seems to be the very thing you're arguing against? Or at least what you claim to be arguing against, though you yourself have made the distinction between bullying and assault. While you seem to be aware of the difference, you don't seem to acknowledge it when making your argument here.

Slow down there Ghost Rider, I'm not trying to force anything on anyone. Bullying or assault is one party committing, and one party not complying with the person committing. What I suggested was an agreement with both parties for a purpose. Maybe I wrote it wrong, I tend to do that until someone points it out.

[tetsu346]

As a kid i bullied people in elementary and some of middle school. but then i matured have made friends with the people i have bullied. my thoughts on it is that there is no point to and people that do it have no lives and are just retarded.

I see no point in bullying and i feel that the people that are subjected to bullying might suicide because of their self-esteem. all in all bullying is dumb and we shouldnt do it cause it affects people more than we think

[Pipboy2000]

I don't really see the point in people trying to stop bullying. I mean it is a natural thing for us humans to do because we are social animals.

[01habbo]

On the question in the first post on who's fault is it, I blame society. Society itself generally turns a blind eye to bullying, either to fears that they will get bullied themself or to the fact that it is none of thier business so they shouldn't get involved. However if society was different and we did stick up for eachother then the bully would back away. We have a basic human instinct of survival, someone isn't going to continue bullying if they are outnumbered.

I saw a comment in this thread that you are weak if you let the bullying affect you. From my own experience bullying will affect you in one way or another, even if you fight back. I was bullied for 7 years during school, I was brought up to just ignore them, because if you fight back you are letting them get to you. And so I did this for seven years, I completely ignored the insults but I changed as a person I was seen as a cold person in school due to the fact that I had no trust in the people around me, I thought everyone was an idiot. But I did this in order to survive in school. Even though I was mentally fighting the insults the bullies still affected me, you can only fight for so long until you do get affected. Sure I told the teachers but nothing was ever done, and I could never fight physically since I had weak muscles. Throughout school my only focus was to get into college, and after those seven years I had to learn how to interact with people all over again and learn to trust people.

The bullies do this for only one reason, to feel good about themselves, to feel that they are on top and that noone can touch them. But it gave me great satisfaction recently to see that the people who bullied me are now working in dead end jobs while I went ahead and succeeded and went into further education. Sure they affected me in the short term but in the long term I went on to succeed. I believe noone is ever weak for letting bullies affect you, we have emotions it's only natural, just as long as you achieve what you set out to do in the long term then you have already conquered them.