Since they are state laws that legalize homosexual marriage, they only count in that state. Until it's a federal law, states can do whatever they want regarding gay marriage (unless it is already legalized)
Even if it were, that is STILL not a viable option. That would force people to move cross country for a marriage.
Oddly enough, I'm with Sasquatch on this one. Marriage IS a religious institution, despite being recognized by law, its upto the religion/church to decide who gets married, no matter how bigoted/racist etc the church is. The thing is, a gay couple can still be joined together in civil union, just not be 'married'. Theres inheritly no difference between the two, except one is outside religion. Do you expect christian churches to start marrying Hindu? To start marrying muslims? I dont like people trying to guilt me into telling me how I should be running my buisiness. I think since my time on the forums here you know that im very anti-religious. Having said that, you can then understand why im defending the church in this case, its because im honest and I truly think that if you are going to respect secularism, then you need to respect the churches right to decide who they do and do not want to marry.
State laws have to abide by the Constitution regardless. The 10th Amendment gives all states the freedom to establish laws not stated in the Constitution, but only if those laws don't conflict with those presented in the Constitution.Originally Posted by Lacquer Head
Since banning people an equal right to marriage through state law goes against the Equal-Protection Clause and the Full Faith and Credit Clause, banning same-sex marriage under the law is illegal, and there is no doubt about that.
The Constitution is the Constitution. It's written in iron pen, and it's inhumane to take any of our freedoms away from us. Even the little ones.
As for the church denying same-sex partners the right to marry, since a church is a private organization, that's perfectly alright. It's easy to leave a bigoted church and find one that isn't run by homophobic secretly-homosexual pedophiles. However, no government, either federal or state, has the right to deny anybody the freedom to marry.
And the only reason that governments get away with deliberately ignoring selected rights granted by the Constitution is because the government is run by rich people who don't give a shit about freedom, the people, or the law, as long as their pockets are lined.
Welp, rowan said what I was going to say.
Basically,
You can get "married" legally reguardless of your gender, race or religion.
I wonder if the desire to be married in a christian church is really a sideways way of going about rocking the boat and getting some people shaken up.
Then the church shouldn't get tax money from gay or black people? Why pay for an institution who won't see you, that's ridiculous.
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
I find it hard to believe there were no warning signs before this, or that the members were accepting of them even going to that church "as long as they don't get married". There is something missing with this story.
Mississippi Church Rejects Black Wedding - ABC News
Nothing missing. It's just good ol' fashion southern-segregation.
So basically, the only thing we have to go by here is the word of the couple. No others that had any knowledge were interviewed. No documentation was found.
This couple is claiming that they were refused a marriage in that church because of their skin color, and everybody else is surprised by it. That's prettymuch an instant red flag that they're not covering the entire story. But, of course, the entire story wouldn't be as interesting (or draw as many accusations of Southern racism), so instead of actually research and reporting the entire story, they base the entire thing off interviews with the couple.
I'm calling bullshit.
Sig courtesy of Plastik Assassin.
Greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13
The issue is that it isn't a prohibition, it's just not recognized as something that should be protected.
It is recognized as something that should be protected, according to the US Constitution. Just not according to most state and federal law. Then again, since when does government ever abide by the proper law?
That's what i mean lol
This is my take on the subject, I am a Christian and if more Christians would read thier Bible instead of listening to thier preacher this world would be better. God has given everyone free will...a free will to obey his laws or not. I respect everyones free will, even if I don't agree with it. The reason why I respect everyones free will is because it is from God. I love gays, blacks, muslims, Atheists (even the ones that laugh at me and tell me that God is just a imaginary friend for adults) pretty much anybody. To me homosexuality is wrong in my eyes but I still love you like a brother.
I respect peoples differences...doesnt mean I have to agree. Because here is the thing, when I die I don't have to answer for anyone but me. Jesus says love each other...not Love each other except this person and that person.
Friendly neighborhood noobie
3:32 AM 8/3/12 Sasquatch negatively rates me immediately after I unblock his ignore status(ironically, ignoring someone still lets them read what you post on TFF): "Yes, I can see what you post. You ignored me, not the other way around. It's a shame you can't see your own intellect being bitch-smacked."
You're a freak-job; I feel sorry for your mother.. You are incapable of ever posting anything of grace and you are a parasite to society. Your retardation of ever posting a positive thought speaks paragraphs of your worth. The responses you additively conformed to are much in the same as the "Hobaged-facist" extreme views.
I going to say it one more time: "come back with solid evidence that u're conspiracy(bullshit) theories are accurate."
I think explaining how the mayors response to the issue was a "hoax" would suffice...
Last edited by Joxsjua; 08-03-2012 at 04:15 AM. Reason: This was perfectly worded before. I found another glitch to where it will double post a thread. It seems the more I idle chat the bigger waste of time here.
Sir, you have just made my day. Thank you for this because I've never been able to provide proper evidence that not everyone that takes Christianity seriously is borderline ignorant/intolerant.
Sassy whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? You presume this couple is lying but it's your word against theirs when it boils down to it. I don't know.. Just practice what you preach. No need for insults, or name calling. We're all rational people here.
Everyone calm down. This issue deserves better than flinging insults back and forth.
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Ragna, that acutally made me laugh.
My take is as follows, bearing in mind I hold secularism dear and though Agnostic, am one of those who values the idea of freedom of religion.
I feel that a religion should have the right to enforce whatever discriminatory ways they believe inside of their own religion. Don't like it? Find an accommodating religion or different set of beliefs and take solace in the thought that others that matter would probably also dislike their crap. But, I strongly believe people should be allowed to marry on a state or federal level regardless of race, gender or whatever else so long as it's consenting adults who have the capacity to understand their actions. I disagree that marriage should be a religious institution owned by Christianity as it both predates Christianity and wasn't even a major sacrament of Christianity until centuries into the religion. It's because of this that I don't agree that 'civil unions' are about equality - marriage after all is legally binding making it not just an issue of religion. Were it not meaningful in any legal sense I wouldn't care at all.
victoria aut mors
Correct. And my brother snores, and I don't. My eldest brother barely crawled before he walked, whereas I spent ages on all fours. I eat very slowly, my brother was dubbed 'garbage disposal machine' by my father due to the rate at which he ate.You're not taught to breathe, crawl, eat, cry, or many other activities. You don't need to be, because they're naturally imprinted on all of us, without the need to be "learned".
Do I need to go on? The wonderful thing about 'naturalness' is that it has an innate and fantastic diversity. I like women, what's to stop one of my brothers liking men, and why would it matter if he did?
Moreover, why do you feel that the state is barely allowed inside your wallet, but want it involved in the legality of whether two adult, rational human beings can form a legal bond?
Snoring or not, crawling or walking, eating slowly or eating quickly, none of which affect whether or not somebody can reproduce.
Many other species are natural as well, why shouldn't we be allowed to conduct sexual relationships with them?Do I need to go on? The wonderful thing about 'naturalness' is that it has an innate and fantastic diversity. I like women, what's to stop one of my brothers liking men, and why would it matter if he did?
A legal bond ... you mean, like a civil union, which entails all the rights of a marriage, which homosexuals are allowed? Or do you mean the religious bond of marriage, and a church forced by the state to conduct a religious ceremony against its own religion?Moreover, why do you feel that the state is barely allowed inside your wallet, but want it involved in the legality of whether two adult, rational human beings can form a legal bond?
Sig courtesy of Plastik Assassin.
Greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13
Why bring other species into the equation? We're talking about our species - you know? Humans.
Also, you don't need religion for marriage, you can be have a ceremony that's not religious, with a humanist instead of a priest - it doesn't have to involve religion at all, marriage was around long before religion adopted it. Heterosexuals can have a civil union, heterosexuals can get married, why should homosexuals not have exactly the same rights as them?
"Everyone was so happy. 'Great job. You did it. You saved us... all.' There were too many smiles to count.
But now...When I look back... The people who should be here aren't.
The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here."
The former, which does not entail the same rights as marriage (at least here, they are not equivalent in terms of inheritance/next of kin and--crucially--adoption). There's also an element of civil union being a second-best. While I'm not happy with the idea of churches discriminating on the basis of sexuality, I have never suggested that churches be forced to marry people they do not want to. That's an important element of secularism.
(Religious) marriages should not be recognised in law, at all. (State) marriages should be the only register of such relationships, and they should not discriminate on any grounds in any shape or form (baring in mind issues of consent, and excluding family members). In the same vein as getting a birth certificate (state) and then a baptism certificate (religious).
Last edited by Alpha; 08-05-2012 at 10:46 PM.
OP has requested that I close this. I'm at work, so I'll have to go through and assess any need for warnings later.
Sorry, guys.
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HEY DO YOU LIKE MUSIC? Because I make music.
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