...Are you actually that clueless that you didn't even read through the title post?
C'mon man, you can do better than that. If you've really got such a problem, why don't you actually pick up some kind of a valid point and make a debate about it rather than be a total troll about the title of the thread?
In fact, I think it'd be really cool if you read some of the posts and THEN accuse us of being racist... Honestly, you won't find any racist commentary to go off of.
The person in my avatar is me.
THIS SIGNATURE IS VERY DISTRACTINGS
I was the holder of the highest amount of rep that ever lived on TFF. 1788. lolz. I ween.
Why do people think that factual information is "racist"? Why is it that some people think that pointing out poverty, education, drugs, or crime levels among specific ethnic groups is somehow prejudiced, or that recognizing the societal differences between American ethnic cultures equates to "hate"?
Let's just face the facts. Some of the most well-known black spokespeople -- Spike Lee, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson -- are racist themselves, blame their problems on white people, make excuses for black culture, etc. etc. There's a difference in a fight for equality -- which is something that nearly everybody would support -- and a fight for special rights and recognition. There is no difference in racism against any race or in favor of any race, yet racism against whites and in favor of many minorities is not only widely accepted, but supported.
Why are black people more likely to end up in jail than whites? Because they commit crimes. Why are black people more likely to end up as teenage mothers, highschool dropouts, drug addicts, gangsters, and more? It sure as hell ain't white peoples' fault, I'll tell you that much. And honestly, if somebody is ignorant enough to think I'm racist for recognizing the truth, I don't give a damn.
Sig courtesy of Plastik Assassin.
Greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13
What factional information is considered racist? And by whom?Why do people think that factual information is "racist"?
It's only prejudice when it is inaccurate, like the claim I got that Mexicans degenerate every single area they move into in the US, and I appreciate being called a degenerate by the way...Why is it that some people think that pointing out poverty, education, drugs, or crime levels among specific ethnic groups is somehow prejudiced,
Who's saying pointing out social differences equates to hate? What differences are you talking about?that recognizing the societal differences between American ethnic cultures equates to "hate"?
Some of those people are probably racist, but I never heard Spike Lee say anything overtly racist, but I don't know much about those guys.Let's just face the facts. Some of the most well-known black spokespeople -- Spike Lee, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson -- are racist themselves,
The funny thing about those racist you listed however is they their racist ideas aren't as hardcore or outspoken as white racist in America, and while inexcusable, they are not as bad as the average American white racist views.
What excuses for black culture? What is black culture anyway? Isn't there a bunch of black cultures?blame their problems on white people, make excuses for black culture, etc. etc.
A fringe few in the US on all sides fight for special rights. Who are you referring to specifically and why do you think that is a problem?There's a difference in a fight for equality -- which is something that nearly everybody would support -- and a fight for special rights and recognition.
Who of consequence and of power supports racism and racial laws and programs against whites?There is no difference in racism against any race or in favor of any race, yet racism against whites and in favor of many minorities is not only widely accepted, but supported.
What actual statistic shows that? Find me what statistic at the US department of Justice's website that shows that.Why are black people more likely to end up in jail than whites? Because they commit crimes.
Show me the evidence that any of that is true.Why are black people more likely to end up as teenage mothers, highschool dropouts, drug addicts, gangsters, and more? It sure as hell ain't white peoples' fault
What truth is leading you to these stupid ideas?I'll tell you that much. And honestly, if somebody is ignorant enough to think I'm racist for recognizing the truth, I don't give a damn.
I have to agree with Sasquatch on this one. You can't make claims that facts are racist. I did a paper on this, with a very left-wing sociology professor making claims that Hurricane Katrina's events were racist because there were a lot of black people in New Orleans. The fact is that there was a terrible, terrible storm that hit a largely black area. White America did not invent a weather machine to point massive storms at the blacks; it just didn't happen. This is very similar to what is being argued here. It's a fact that more teen mothers are black. It's a fact that there are more black males in jail than any other demographic. This isn't considered racism because the justice system largely prevents falsely accused people from going to jail for crimes they did not commit. A cop may find a broken window from a robbery, and may be racist and pick up a black person found loitering in the area. If they're innocent, then they should be able to get off.
As for the questions that Sasquatch poses, about why there are more minority teen mothers and criminals, the answer isn't because they're (whatever race). It's because in these situations, there are cyclical patterns. If you grow up not knowing who your dad is, chances are he might not have known who his was. Cultural upbringing along with (implied) poverty both play a role. If you have no money to feed your family, you might turn to crime. If everyone else is having sex and having kids, then there's a chance that you might see it as alright, because nobody's telling you it's wrong at 15. If your parents aren't there to discipline and watch your ass because they're both working shitty jobs to try and feed you and your family, then theres a good chance you might get mixed into the wrong crowds. The circumstances often lead to the problems at hand, but at the same time, not all minorities live in the ghetto, do crack and rob places. I'm willing to say that most minorities in shitty situations are good people who are trying to do the best they can with what they've got. It's the dumbasses that ruin it for them and make them look like trash.
On another note, Al Sharpton has called Greeks "Homos" before, and leads crusade after crusade against white people who use their first amendment right. As for Spike Lee, just watch "Do The Right Thing." It has anti-white and anti-police sentiments, making hard working whites look like assholes and police looking like barbarians, while the blacks are saints and martyrs.
I'll sum up the one major scene. A group of black guys go into an Italian-owned pizzeria. One of the guys blasts his boombox, which disturbs the customers. The owner asks him to turn it down. Boombox guy doesn't. Owner asks again. Still blasting it. Owner kicks out the blacks for breaking his rules, AS IS COMMON IN ANY ESTABLISHMENT. A fight ensues and the cops are called. The boombox guy is put in a choke hold by a cop and keeps resisting arrest and being a ****. Because he is being belligerent the cop keeps choking him until he dies.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
If there are more blacks altogether who are teen parents, prove it. If there is more blacks in prisons, as in all types of penitentiaries and that they commit more crime, prove it.
When has something like that ever happened?I'll sum up the one major scene. A group of black guys go into an Italian-owned pizzeria. One of the guys blasts his boombox, which disturbs the customers. The owner asks him to turn it down. Boombox guy doesn't. Owner asks again. Still blasting it. Owner kicks out the blacks for breaking his rules, AS IS COMMON IN ANY ESTABLISHMENT. A fight ensues and the cops are called. The boombox guy is put in a choke hold by a cop and keeps resisting arrest and being a ****. Because he is being belligerent the cop keeps choking him until he dies.
He was paraphrasing a scene from the movie.Originally Posted by vevuxking102
He even said so right before the quote:
Community Manager; Forum Administrator
reppin' SOLDIER since 2004 • CPC8 class of 2009Random;:
pregnancy rates:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C0A9629C8B63
jail:
http://tafkac.org/misc/black_prison_rates.html
it's a movie. the point of the movie is to show the racism of the whites and police officers, explicating how Spike Lee views white people and the NYPD.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
Let's play Priviledged White or Asian Kid Mad Libs!
insert how someone you know is a minority, so you couldn't possibly be racist here I'm white and one time someone called me a insert anti-white epithet. Now that's really racist! I'm not a racist, because I've never used a term like that for someone. Yeah, like, when I walk into the neighborhood of people who don't look like me, I get nervous, but it's because they're so known for insert something "deviant" or criminal here.Seriously, doesn't everyone know that insert one, maybe two black people here did something racist once? That makes him or her, and therefore all people of his or her color, horribly racist! Hey, it's not my fault that slavery happened! Actually, I'd prefer if we'd all forget slavery happened. It was bad and wrong, and it made lots and lots and lots of black people poor and lots and lots and lots of white people rich. That lead to insert statistic supporting "deviant" or criminal behavior of people of color here, but I don't want to acknowledge the reasons for that, just the outcome, because it makes people with tans look worse than my ivory kin. I just want to pretend that because I don't agree with slavery, it doesn't affect us today.
Man, I'm not racist, but when black people suggest that I have a lot of unearned shit, it makes me so uncomfortable, I forget that when I go to apply for a job, my interviewer will probably be from my race and share a lot of my mannerisms, patterns of speech, and values. Sometimes I forget that the laws for prosecuting cases regarding crack cocaine are disproportionately more harsh than those regarding greater amounts of powdered cocaine, which are generally black and white drugs, respectively. If I'm really freaked out (like if they get in my face because maybe I called them "well-spoken", said I wanted to touch their hair, or suggested that they knew another person just because that person is black), I forget that I can always come on the internet and talk to a bunch of kids who, like me, are equally persecuted, just for being white.
insert Whitney-hate here
Alright seriously. I just wish people would try -just try!- to look at things from the perspective of people who didn't grow up just like them. I don't like when people dismiss the concerns of people of color, women, people with disabilities, whatever, just because they've never really given any thought to what it would be like to be in their position.
I should join the Fantastic Four. Flame on!
Sasquatch, I think you misunderstand WHY minorities commit more crime, or at least do not recognize it. It is largely due to the fact that they are of lower income than the average white American. When you start off with 50% of black families not having a father around, you have a raw deal to begin with. Pete did a good job summing it up.
You are correct in that it isn't my fault as a white person, or yours, but there is still racism in the establishment. And when I say establishment, I mean both the white establishment that caricatures blacks as thugs and the black establishment (B.E.T., rap moguls) that actively encourage the thug look. Both are guilty.
If you compared the crime rate of poor white kids and poor black kids, they would probably be similar. The same for rich black families and rich white ones.
Hey! Read my movie blog! http://centralfloridafilmcritic.blogspot.com
If that was meant to defend the idea that blacks are more likely to be teenage mothers, here's what the article says:pregnancy rates:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C0A9629C8B63
The variation among states on all measures is striking. Teenage pregnancy rates in 2000 were highest in Nevada, at 113 per 1,000, and lowest in North Dakota, at 42 per 1,000, well below the national average of 83.6. Abortion rates were highest in New Jersey, with 47 abortions per 1,000 women 15 to 19, followed by New York, with 46 per 1,000; the Connecticut rate was 30 per 1,000. New Jersey also had the highest pregnancy rates among black teenagers, 209 per 1,000; the rate was 167 per 1,000 in New York and not available in Connecticut. New Jersey had the highest percentage of teenage abortions, 60 percent, with New York at 58 percent and Connecticut at 49 percent. Only 13 percent of pregnancies in Kentucky and Utah ended in abortion.
Pregnancy rates for non-Hispanic white teenagers were highest in Arkansas (77 per 1,000) and lowest in North Dakota (33 per 1,000). For Hispanics, the lowest rates were in Mississippi (71 per 1,000) and the highest in Georgia (169 per 1,000). The lowest rate among black teenagers was in Utah (71 per 1,000).
What kind of defense is that? (I mean, if it was defending that position)
This is from 1997, well over 10 years ago, and here's the current Department of Justice statistics:
# The prevalence of imprisonment in 2001 was higher for
-- black males (16.6%) and Hispanic males (7.7%) than for white males (2.6%)
-- black females (1.7%) and Hispanic females (0.7%) than white females (0.3%)
# Nearly two-thirds of the 3.8 million increase in the number of adults ever incarcerated between 1974 and 2001 occurred as a result of an increase in first incarceration rates; one-third occurred as a result of an increase in the number of residents age 18 and older.
The percents aren't that much different, and are due to socio-economic factors, not race.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
Louisiana is basically in the conditions of a third world country (Katrina has only made it worse) and everyone there period is prone to crime.
Just look at Israels treatment of Arabs in the Middle East.
My response can be summed up in your own words, so I'm just going to quote you again, if you don't mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vevuxking102
prove it.
WOW. What the fuck, man?
Okay, so here's how the New Orleans thing works. Roughly seventy percent of the crimes in New Orleans are committed by black people, BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF DISCRIMINATION, IT'S SIMPLE MATHEMATICS. When seventy percent of the population is of a certain ethnicity, it only makes sense that the numbers would line up like that.
But to so blatantly accuse EVERYONE in Louisiana of criminal tendencies? The crime rate wasn't even outrageous until Katrina.
Your methods for debate are severely flawed.
El Wray, along with MANY others throughout the course of this thread since you arrived, has really stated the only thing that needed to be said. The reason there is more "black crime" and "black pregnancy" is because there are more of them in precarious situations where poor choices are likely to be made. That's not a racist statement, it's a statistic.
You're trying to equate statistics with intolerance.
Furthermore, you are so back and forth with what you keep saying that I (along with others who have mentioned it outside the forums) can't figure out what your point really is. You reference sources but fail to make a clear argument. You rebuke points with random factoids and don't seem to have a solid stance. You seem to defend with one post and attack with the next.
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THE SUBJECT?
I'm having a hard time following you.
Clarify this for me, please. Don't quote anything. No statistics. No references. No Wikipedia. I want to hear what YOU have to say so that we may all know exactly what it is you're trying to convey here.
Community Manager; Forum Administrator
reppin' SOLDIER since 2004 • CPC8 class of 2009Random;:
What did I say that made you say what the ****? And don't let the king in the title fool you about my genderWOW. What the ****, man?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orl...ouisiana#Crime
Okay, so here's how the New Orleans thing works. Roughly seventy percent of the crimes in New Orleans are committed by black people, BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF DISCRIMINATION, IT'S SIMPLE MATHEMATICS.
Not of the statistics I've seen say 70 percent of all crimes is done by blacks.
Yes it was, New Orleans has been a poor city for decades. Theft and shootings didn't come because of Katrina.But to so blatantly accuse EVERYONE in Louisiana of criminal tendencies? The crime rate wasn't even outrageous until Katrina.
New Orleans has a high violent crime rate. Homicides peaked at 425 in 1994, a rate of 86 per 100,000 that has not been matched by any major U.S. city to date.[48]
From 1999 to 2004, the homicide rate again increased. New Orleans had the highest homicide rate of any major American city in 2002 (53.3 per 100,000 people) and again in 2003 (275 homicides).[49] It should be stated that the number of homicides has decreased since 1994 - the number of homicides in 2004 was about 275, cutting the 1994 count by one-third.
This is due to socio-economic factors, not race.
Using facts is severely flawed? All you do is make claims.Your methods for debate are severely flawed.
What, no articles and no statistics? They might dampen your world view? How come in poor white countries, like certain countries in Eastern Europe that have not yet modernized are plagued with crime, yet no one says it's because of their skin color, it's socio-economic factors with them. But in the U.S., it's because of skin color. God.
Clarify this for me, please. Don't quote anything. No statistics. No references. No Wikipedia. I want to hear what YOU have to say so that we may all know exactly what it is you're trying to convey here.
The fact is Louisiana is third world, much like Pine ridge or Flint, Michigan. And blacks happen to be the most poverty stricken, hence more crime.
Honestly, what do statistics even matter, whether they are from 10 seconds ago or 10 years ago. The same people are still going to be in jail, and the truth of the matter is that no man (or woman, for all you feminists) is a statistic. There are black people who've gotten thrown in jail for armed robbery, just as there are black men who've got thrown in jail for posession, just like white people have and still do. The real disparity is in white collared crimes, because more often than not, blacks are not in that position in the first place. If you want to know all the stats so badly, you can take the time and google it yourself. I've spent enough time on this site arguing minute details and petty information that I could have written a dissertation. People are stating their opinions on the matter and if they feel that they are or aren't a racist, what should it matter to you?
In no way is this me admitting that I'm wrong. To be honest, I just glanced over the first thing I saw when I googled everything, mostly because I don't care that there are more blacks getting knocked up than hispanics than whites than asians. The real problem is that ****ing 15 year old girls are getting knocked up in the first place, regardless of race. The problem is that people have to resort to crime to feed their families or to afford things because the economy is tanking, jobs are scarce and people have to support more people because their kids are having kids! This is what's wrong with America right now, especially including the fact that we're all sitting here on our asses pointing fingers at the same people we're been pointing fingers at for 300 years.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
Do you understand human language? LocoColt has not once said that the problems in the US are due to skin colour.
He's asking you to state an opinion because you haven't done so. In a debate, you read the topic, give your opinion and then back it up with facts. All you have done so far is ask people to provide facts to back up common knowledge. It really ruins a debte when the opposing side expresses absolutely no opinion and just responds with "prove" it, when even the audience knows it's true. The only opinion you've stated so far is that you think Jews are oppressive which, go figure, is entirely racist.
Why are you even here?
Until now!
I'm still waiting to see what this you actually believe for yourself. All you've been doing is throwing around facts and quotes left and right, but not once have you really stated anything but a counter-argument or posed another argument.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
No, but he's trying to allude to skin color being a factor in crime, when that cannot be construed as the case.Do you understand human language? LocoColt has not once said that the problems in the US are due to skin colour.
Oh, I thought I did. Sorry if I didn't. My opinion is simply that skin color is not a factor in crime rates in places like Louisiana, but the horrible socio-economic factors are. People here tried to say the crime rates were nothing before katrina, but that's completely false.He's asking you to state an opinion because you haven't done so.
If it's common knowledge, why is it not backed up by facts? I gave the articles and statistics, and they back up what I say, but you guys still say I'm wrong, and then tell me to stop using articles and statistics. Um, okay...All you have done so far is ask people to provide facts to back up common knowledge.
It really ruins a debte when the opposing side expresses absolutely no opinion and just responds with "prove" it, when even the audience knows it's true.
Um, nothing is true unless you prove it. I don't want to debate opinions in this case, if you say it's true something does something, prove it. It's the internet, it should take less than five minutes.
Of course, since Judaism is a race, like Christianity, yeah...and I said most of them have an oppressive religious attitude, which is religious, not race, but they are a race, like Christianity. Right.The only opinion you've stated so far is that you think Jews are oppressive which, go figure, is entirely racist.
Bottom line: Crime is a matter of race in the US? Prove it. You people are just being all stupid about this, seriously, are you people this foolish?
Last edited by vevuxking102; 03-24-2008 at 01:36 PM.
Crime/poverty/pregnancy/education statistics by race (showing that specific races have more crime, more poverty, more teen pregnancy, less education), and by quite a few people.You implied it.Who's saying pointing out social differences equates to hate? What differences are you talking about?You show that you don't know much about the people I listed -- and let see something that says that there are such things as "average American white racist views".The funny thing about those racist you listed however is they their racist ideas aren't as hardcore or outspoken as white racist in America, and while inexcusable, they are not as bad as the average American white racist views.Ever heard of Affirmative Action?Who of consequence and of power supports racism and racial laws and programs against whites?
Right. And we're racist because we recognize societal differences between ethnic groups, huh?
Factual defense, backed up by statistics. If the lowest pregnancy rate among black teenagers is nearly as high as the highest pregnancy rate among white teenagers, and more than twice as much as the lowest pregnancy rate among white teenagers, that's a pretty damn good defense. Hence, blacks are more likely to be teenage mothers. Anything else?I'll have to go with Loco's "what the fuck" on this, because your extreme ignorance doesn't need to be pointed out again.Louisiana is basically in the conditions of a third world country (Katrina has only made it worse) and everyone there period is prone to crime.You've yet to prove, or even statistically support, any of your asinine arguments. Instead, you just say "look at this", which is completely irrelevant, and imply that Israelis mistreat Middle Eastern Arabs, despite the huge numbers of Arab Israelis.Just look at Israels treatment of Arabs in the Middle East.
If you want more crime statistics by race, try this -- http://www.vdare.com/sailer/050213_mapping.htm . Even with pretty pictures, easy to understand.
And here are some more, from the Department of Justice -- http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
A factor? No. Nobody here has said that race causes crime. But the correlation cannot be denied.First, it is common knowledge, and second, it is backed up by facts -- which have been presented, multiple times. The only thing you gave, once, was a wikipedia article referring to crime rates in the city of New Orleans. And the one request for you to present your opinion and not the articles and statistics that you're not using anyway was so that everybody here could see YOUR opinion and YOUR views, and why.If it's common knowledge, why is it not backed up by facts? I gave the articles and statistics, and they back up what I say, but you guys still say I'm wrong, and then tell me to stop using articles and statistics.It's the internet, not a post-graduate thesis. But seeing as every argument you disagree with has been supported by outside evidence, you're still prettymuch screwed. The rest of us are still waiting for you to back up your opinions.Um, nothing is true unless you prove it. I don't want to debate opinions in this case, if you say it's true something does something, prove it. It's the internet, it should take less than five minutes.Actually, Judaism is widely considered an ethnicity. Regardless, even if you don't consider it to be "racist", your views are still generalized and prejudiced -- not to mention incorrect and extremely ignorant. I bet all Muslims are terrorists too, huh?Of course, since Judaism is a race, like Christianity, yeah...and I said most of them have an oppressive religious attitude, which is religious, not race, but they are a race, like Christianity. Right.I did just prove -- by citing statistics -- that race and crime in the U.S. are related. Nobody's saying that it's "a matter of race", only that a correlation exists, and that it's not "racist" to recognize the existence of such correlation.Bottom line: Crime is a matter of race in the US? Prove it. You people are just being all stupid about this, seriously, are you people this foolish?
Sig courtesy of Plastik Assassin.
Greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13
Where are these statistics that show a certain race is more prone to these activities and conditions? You've yet to show it. You people even lambasted me for giving actual articles and statistics on the subject, and just asked for my opinion. In discussions such as this, opinions mean nothing.Crime/poverty/pregnancy/education statistics by race (showing that specific races have more crime, more poverty, more teen pregnancy, less education)
No, you people implied it. You people said everyone screams racism and hate when someone points out social and economic differences, yet I've yet to see that.Who's saying pointing out social differences equates to hate? What differences are you talking about?
You implied it.
Enlighten me, then.You show that you don't know much about the people I listed
The average white american racist views are this:and let see something that says that there are such things as "average American white racist views".
1) That the United States is under threat by immigration and other cultures, and if nothing is done about it, the US will be assimilated into a foreign country.
2) That people with other skin colors have only themselves to blame for any social ills that befall them, and nothing should be done to help them, since they are not worth much anyway.
3) Despite their views listed in the second point, they believe that these "inferior" races actually control the United States, and are in a conspiracy of various groups to bring down white people and make the US an oppressive "multi-racial" dictatorship.
(The main goal of such a dictatorship would obviously be to breed white people out of existence, and teach white children it's a-okay to go out with people of another color in schools. Just the horror of it all.)
4) That anglo-saxon and "white Christian" culture must be preserved by all cost, even through violence and intimidation.
(same sort of dumbasses you get mad when someone here in California has a mexican accent or sometimes speaks Spanish).
The idea that affirmative action actually is a tool of blacks and browns to control the US and make special laws for themselves is stupid. The fact is, opponents of affirmative action are usually hardcore libertarians or businessmen, who oppose such actions and laws because it hurts their part of the private sector, and don't give a crap about anyone else.Affirmative Action
They spread propaganda about affirmative action, which white racist are easily attracted too, because they are stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirma...on#Controversy
No, because you say someones skin color makes them more prone to a certain activity. I thought biologist since Darwin's time have debunked such notions, but I guess not.Right. And we're racist because we recognize societal differences between ethnic groups, huh?
Factual defense, backed up by statistics. If the lowest pregnancy rate among black teenagers is nearly as high as the highest pregnancy rate among white teenagers, and more than twice as much as the lowest pregnancy rate among white teenagers, that's a pretty damn good defense.
It doesn't say that at all though. It says this:
>>>The variation among states on all measures is striking. Teenage pregnancy rates in 2000 were highest in Nevada, at 113 per 1,000, and lowest in North Dakota, at 42 per 1,000, well below the national average of 83.6. Abortion rates were highest in New Jersey, with 47 abortions per 1,000 women 15 to 19, followed by New York, with 46 per 1,000; the Connecticut rate was 30 per 1,000. New Jersey also had the highest pregnancy rates among black teenagers, 209 per 1,000; the rate was 167 per 1,000 in New York and not available in Connecticut. New Jersey had the highest percentage of teenage abortions, 60 percent, with New York at 58 percent and Connecticut at 49 percent. Only 13 percent of pregnancies in Kentucky and Utah ended in abortion.<<<
Pregnancy rates for non-Hispanic white teenagers were highest in Arkansas (77 per 1,000) and lowest in North Dakota (33 per 1,000). For Hispanics, the lowest rates were in Mississippi (71 per 1,000) and the highest in Georgia (169 per 1,000). The lowest rate among black teenagers was in Utah (71 per 1,000).
Here's the link again:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C0A9629C8B63
You people really need yoga lessons. It will help you guys put their heads for firmly in your asses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_pr...onomic_factors
What, you mean you don't know about Louisianians economic situation, or that it's conditions are comparable to that of Pine Ridge (do you even know what Pine Ridge is?I'll have to go with Loco's "what the ****" on this, because your extreme ignorance doesn't need to be pointed out again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ri...an_Reservation
Because there is huge numbers of arab israelis, that means they are not mistreated?You've yet to prove, or even statistically support, any of your asinine arguments. Instead, you just say "look at this", which is completely irrelevant, and imply that Israelis mistreat Middle Eastern Arabs, despite the huge numbers of Arab Israelis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ar...bism_in_Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_ci...graphic_threat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r...hts_violations
Getting kicked out of your homes, shot at, having artillery shells blow your neighbors to pieces, just good fun. Geesh.
Hey moron, Steve Sailer is not an qualified source on the subject, he is a racist backwards baboon who does not use science to back things up. I mean actual statistics and articles.
I actually took the liberty to read some more stuff on this Vdare site, and I found:
Promotion of Peter Brimelow and his book "Alien Nation", probably the most hypocritical and stupid crap I've read on the subject of immigration in the U.S.
Racializing the story of Virginia Dare.
For some residents of North Carolina, she has been an important symbol of the state and the desire to keep it predominantly European-American. In the 1920s, a group that opposed suffrage for women feared that black women would get the vote. One group in Raleigh, North Carolina urged "that North Carolina remain white ... in the name of Virginia Dare."[7] Today Virginia Dare's name is used for the anti-immigration group The VDARE Project.
Some people also see her as a symbol of women's rights. In the 1980s feminists in North Carolina called for state residents to approve the Equal Rights Amendment and "Honor Virginia Dare."[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Dare#Symbolism
Some misc. quotes:
"So Virginia Dare could be symbolic of the coming racial nirvana that immigration enthusiasts are forced to start fantasizing about when you compel them to look at the statistical consequences of current policy."
What is racial nirvana in this definition? It links to this page:
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/marriage.htm
I had inserted a few positive remarks about the harmonizing effects of interracial marriage - such as "Intermarriage is what turned the Angles and the Saxons into the Anglo-Saxons.” My correspondent declared my views to be "pure evil."
The overall impact of interracial marriage on the IQ of the children of American mixed marriages is unclear. It might have raised their IQs slightly, since many (but not all) of the non-white spouses are coming from countries where the average IQ is higher than among white Americans. (And we could mimic Canada and make a lot more of an effort to select higher quality immigrants.)
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/whiteness.htm
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/050626_populism.htm
Did you notice he constantly links to articles from the Washington Times? That also blows his credibility off, since the Washington Times is nothing more than right-wing propaganda created by the Moonies, the wacky cult of "Christians" in South Korea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Sailer#Race
"Homosexuality
Sailer has speculated that male homosexuality may be a genetic disease."
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
I guess you glanced over these parts in the article:
The race distribution of homicide victims and offenders differs by type of homicide
For the years 1976-2005 combined -
* Black victims are over represented in homicides involving drugs. Compared with the overall involvement of blacks as victims, blacks are less often the victims of sex-related homicides, workplace killings, and homicide by poison.
* Race patterns among offenders are similar to those among victims.
Although slightly less true now than before, most murders are intraracial
From 1976 to 2005 --
* 86% of white victims were killed by whites
* 94% of black victims were killed by blacks
Stranger homicides are more likely to cross racial lines than those that involve friends or acquaintances
For homicides committed by --
* a friend or acquaintance of the victim, less than one-tenth (8%) were interracial
* a stranger to the victim, one-quarter were interracial
This does not back up your claims at all. Can't you stop doing that yoga and get your head out of your ass?
You people are implying it does. Hell, you just linked to a baboon who claims race is a reason for crime. I guess whites are more likely to commit crimes, because of all the criminal activities that go on in poor Eastern European countries.A factor? No. Nobody here has said that race causes crime. But the correlation cannot be denied.
No they aren't. You people either link to articles that are not backed up by statistics and are just stupid opinions, like yours, or you link to the actual articles which don't even support your claims. This is too funny, you operate like trolls trying to get people to simply rub facts in your face like feces.First, it is common knowledge, and second, it is backed up by facts -- which have been presented, multiple times.
Uh, I linked to many articles. And that specific link you refer to was used to dispell the idea that New Orleans didn't have high crime rates before Katrina.The only thing you gave, once, was a wikipedia article referring to crime rates in the city of New Orleans.
The fact is Louisiana has been crappy for decades.
Sorry, in discussions about crime rates, opinions don't mean anything. It's about the facts. Your opinions on the subject don't affect the reality of the situation, one way or the other.And the one request for you to present your opinion and not the articles and statistics that you're not using anyway was so that everybody here could see YOUR opinion and YOUR views, and why.
So on the internet, you can just claim, and it makes it true? You claim blacks are more prone to crime because they are black, and it's true? Come on, it's the internet...prove it. Google or Clusty or Wikipedia or whatever you use is a click away.It's the internet, not a post-graduate thesis.
Uh....Actually, Judaism is widely considered an ethnicity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_...2Ethnic_Jew.22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism...ws_and_Judaism
How are they generalized, and how are they incorrect?Regardless, even if you don't consider it to be "racist", your views are still generalized and prejudiced -- not to mention incorrect and extremely ignorant.
HAHAHAHAHA, the group of people I'm defending from Israels actions are mostly Muslim, and you try that cheap shot at me? What's next, Islam is a race? HAHAHAHAHAHA!I bet all Muslims are terrorists too, huh?
Idiot.
Uh, you didn't though.I did just prove -- by citing statistics -- that race and crime in the U.S. are related.
But such a correlation does not exist.obody's saying that it's "a matter of race", only that a correlation exists, and that it's not "racist" to recognize the existence of such correlation.
Last edited by vevuxking102; 03-24-2008 at 03:56 PM.
Aren't you the one doing that? You're the one who came out of nowhere and decided to wage war in debate threads. Not the best way to start out on a forum.
Just my two cents, I stopped caring about this topic long ago.
Sorry about this being so long. Figured I might as well just put it into one post and say what I needed to.
Did you even read my last post? The two links I cited with statistical information showing the correlation between race and crime rates? The links previously cited by others showing the correlation between race and crime rates, along with teen pregnancy rates?You were asked for your views on the subject, and until this post, hadn't cited diddly to support any of your arguments. And by the way, anybody who knows anything about research can tell you that wikipedia is nowhere near a reliable source. If you want to complain about opposing arguments not being supported (when they are), don't try to claim the higher ground by citing wikipedia.You people even lambasted me for giving actual articles and statistics on the subject, and just asked for my opinion.You must have forgotten the "Why hide your racist views?" and, even better, "I live in Southern California, which is filled with cowardly racist, who always start off their dumb statements with "I'm not racist...but..." It usually comes from the cowardly white racist, and they say it to me as if I'd agree with their crap, and the ironic thing is...I'm not white! Why preach to the people you hate?"No, you people implied it. You people said everyone screams racism and hate when someone points out social and economic differences, yet I've yet to see that.
Nice try, kid.Comments regarding the racism of people like Spike Lee and Al Sharpton have already been posted. Jesse Jackson isn't much different from Sharpton, and Farrakhan has actually advocated violence against whites for no reason other than to gain power.Enlighten me, then.Wrong. Most sensible people realize that the United States is under threat by ILLEGAL immigration. The U.S. has always been welcome to legal immigration -- hell, even bringing refugees in from many, many other countries. We just don't like it when illegal immigrants come, because they bring with them quite a few other problems. There's no way to say that they're not criminals when their entry into the country is a crime.1) That the United States is under threat by immigration and other cultures, and if nothing is done about it, the US will be assimilated into a foreign country.Wrong. Very few of us evil white people think "they are not worth much anyway" -- we just like the concept of individual responsibility. People with any skin color usually only have themselves to blame, not just those with a different skin color than mine. I don't blame others for the problems I have -- or my race has -- so why am I blamed for the problems of others -- or other races?2) That people with other skin colors have only themselves to blame for any social ills that befall them, and nothing should be done to help them, since they are not worth much anyway.Seriously, where the hell do you get this stuff?3) Despite their views listed in the second point, they believe that these "inferior" races actually control the United States, and are in a conspiracy of various groups to bring down white people and make the US an oppressive "multi-racial" dictatorship.
(The main goal of such a dictatorship would obviously be to breed white people out of existence, and teach white children it's a-okay to go out with people of another color in schools. Just the horror of it all.)Wow, exactly, because the United States has launched genocide after genocide against the whole of North America, cultural wars against rap music and anything latino, and supports the destruction of every non-white civilization around the world. Right, kid. Keep going, this is getting more fun.4) That anglo-saxon and "white Christian" culture must be preserved by all cost, even through violence and intimidation.Most people don't get mad because somebody has a Mexican accent or speaks Spanish -- it's when people can't speak English -- and thus refuse to learn English, then demand that the U.S. adapts to them -- that we get mad.(same sort of dumbasses you get mad when someone here in California has a mexican accent or sometimes speaks Spanish).Wrong again. Damn, you're on a roll. But keep calling opposing views "stupid", it only helps you to gain respect and credibility. Anyway, affirmative action is a program based in racism itself, for the supposed cause of counter-racism. This leads to less qualified applicants being accepted (for loans, colleges, jobs, etc.) because of their skin color. Why is it that racism by whites is evil and wrong, though it hardly exists in America anymore, while racism against whites is socially accepted and even encouraged?The idea that affirmative action actually is a tool of blacks and browns to control the US and make special laws for themselves is stupid. The fact is, opponents of affirmative action are usually hardcore libertarians or businessmen, who oppose such actions and laws because it hurts their part of the private sector, and don't give a crap about anyone else.Of course, everybody who disagrees with a social organized racism program that you agree with is racist and stupid. Wow.They spread propaganda about affirmative action, which white racist are easily attracted too, because they are stupid.Except that nobody here has said that. Keep trying. Nobody's said that skin color makes anybody more prone to anything, just that there's a correlation between skin color and these "certain activities". Not that skin color causes them, only that the statistics are related.No, because you say someones skin color makes them more prone to a certain activity.How is this so hard for you to understand? Let's re-re-organize this for you.It doesn't say that at all though. It says this:
...
New Jersey also had the highest pregnancy rates among black teenagers, 209 per 1,000
...
Pregnancy rates for non-Hispanic white teenagers were highest in Arkansas (77 per 1,000) and lowest in North Dakota (33 per 1,000).
...
The lowest rate among black teenagers was in Utah (71 per 1,000).
Here's the link again:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C0A9629C8B63
Teen pregnancy rates:
Blacks: 71/1000 (Utah) - 209/1000 (New Jersey)
Whites: 33/1000 (North Dakota) - 77/1000 (Arkansas)
Are you STILL trying to say that blacks don't have higher teen pregnancy rates?Yes -- I also know about "Louisianians" (whatever the hell that is) racial differences, especially concerning Nagin's "chocolate city" comments.What, you mean you don't know about Louisianians economic situation, or that it's conditions are comparable to that of Pine Ridge (do you even know what Pine Ridge is?Not necessarily -- because Israel doesn't intentionally and generally mistreat Arabs means they are not mistreated. Counterattacks and national security aren't "mistreatment", and neither are attacks on those who constantly support and participate in the destruction of Israel.Because there is huge numbers of arab israelis, that means they are not mistreated?I suppose it's almost as much fun as having hundreds of civilian women and children slaughtered on buses, mentally handicapped children being strapped with explosive vests, and rockets and mortars being aimed at schools, hospitals, and synagogues.Getting kicked out of your homes, shot at, having artillery shells blow your neighbors to pieces, just good fun. Geesh.Then quit insulting your superiors and start disproving sources presented against your arguments.Hey moron, Steve Sailer is not an qualified source on the subject, he is a racist backwards baboon who does not use science to back things up. I mean actual statistics and articles.Wow. Anything else you got? Maybe some links to truthism, or al-jezeera? You think the Washington Times is "propaganda", but have no problem with the New York Times, which has been shown many times to be extremely biased?Did you notice he constantly links to articles from the Washington Times? That also blows his credibility off, since the Washington Times is nothing more than right-wing propaganda created by the Moonies, the wacky cult of "Christians" in South Korea.No, I didn't -- but I didn't mention it because it has absolutely nothing to do with crime rates by race. Crimes are crimes regardless of motive -- or victim, or reason, or method, or anything else.I guess you glanced over these parts in the article:
The race distribution of homicide victims and offenders differs by type of homicideYou must have missed the statistics cited in the research you were so quick to dismiss, along with the Department of Justice site. Take another look, and you'll realize that they very much do back up my claims -- and really, everybody's claims, except yours.This does not back up your claims at all. Can't you stop doing that yoga and get your head out of your ass?Where have any of "us people" ever said that race causes crime? Could you point this out?You people are implying it does.If you want to bring up other countries and other continents, we can talk about Africa all day long -- or the Middle East, for that matter. But the topic at hand is the United States -- in which, there is a direct correlation between specific races and crime rates. Unless you'd really like to include crime rates (not just numbers, but percentages and rates) from all over the world, but if you know much, you know that they won't help your argument.Hell, you just linked to a baboon who claims race is a reason for crime. I guess whites are more likely to commit crimes, because of all the criminal activities that go on in poor Eastern European countries.The numerous links provided here have backed up everybody's arguments except yours. You've yet to disprove any correlation between race and crime, education, teen pregnancy, or poverty -- while correlation has been proven, you keep arguing against it, with no substance to your arguments except insults.No they aren't. You people either link to articles that are not backed up by statistics and are just stupid opinions, like yours, or you link to the actual articles which don't even support your claims.No, we're just trying to get you to offer any facts to support your arguments. Thought your "trolls" insult is especially comedic, as the only one here who would fit that definition is, well, you.This is too funny, you operate like trolls trying to get people to simply rub facts in your face like feces.Unless they're backed up by facts. Which they are. Keep trying.Sorry, in discussions about crime rates, opinions don't mean anything. It's about the facts. Your opinions on the subject don't affect the reality of the situation, one way or the other.When did I claim that blacks are more prone to crime "because they are black"? Maybe you should argue against what's presented, instead of fabricating opposing arguments.So on the internet, you can just claim, and it makes it true? You claim blacks are more prone to crime because they are black, and it's true?Please don't tell me that you believe that the only thing something takes to be "proven" is a source to back it up. And for somebody that claims that sources cited against you are "propaganda", wikipedia is easy but inaccurate, so I would suggest, if you want to be taken seriously, to start citing other sources. Well, if you want to be taken seriously, I would first suggest changing your views, then citing other sources, but I suppose you should just take what you can get. Uh ... thanks for proving my point that Judiasm is also considered somewhat of an ethnicity and not just a religion. Hence, "ethnic Jews". When are you going to start citing sources that support your primary points, instead of not supporting any of your points or vaguely supporting points irrelevant to the argument?Come on, it's the internet...prove it. Google or Clusty or Wikipedia or whatever you use is a click away.Your quote: "most of them have an oppressive religious attitude". Generalized, incorrect, and most of all, ignorant.How are they generalized, and how are they incorrect?Actually, the group of people you're defending from Israel's actions are mostly Muslim extremist -- which is why Israel is taking any action against them in the first place. But either way, it would be just as ignorant of a generalization as the prejudice you hold against Jews.HAHAHAHAHA, the group of people I'm defending from Israels actions are mostly Muslim, and you try that cheap shot at me?Except I did, by citing sources and statistics. You might want to actually look at them.Uh, you didn't though.Except that it DOES exist, and has been PROVEN to exist by the numerous sources you've been presented with here.But such a correlation does not exist.
Nobody's said that anybody is more "prone" to criminal activities, only recognized the correlation, and the only reasons for this correlation that have been given are non-racial.
The Department of Justice is a "retarded racist" source? You've yet to disprove any argument I've made, which has simply been the existence of a correlation between race and crime/poverty/pregnancy/education.
Last edited by Sasquatch; 03-24-2008 at 06:49 PM.
Sig courtesy of Plastik Assassin.
Greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13
This is idiotic.
Other than Sasquatch, who has made that claim? I said this as a joke originally, but it seems you actually don't understand human language. You haven't understood a single post in this thread at any rate. I still think you're a gag account, because it doesn't seem possible for someone to miss the mark every time.
To accuse LocoColt, of all people, of implying racism is just stupid. I'd say to learn to read between the lines, but first you need to learn to read the lines themselves. Honestly, how your mind functions baffles me.
Last edited by Jin; 03-24-2008 at 05:46 PM.
Until now!
Indeed.This is idiotic.
My rebuttal to that users post is directed only at that user, so why does it matter if he's the only one saying it?Other than Sasquatch, who has made that claim?
I am still new to it.I said this as a joke originally, but it seems you actually don't understand human language.
Uh...in what way?You haven't understood a single post in this thread at any rate
..what mark?I still think you're a gag account, because it doesn't seem possible for someone to miss the mark every time.
You people talk of things, but don't back them up. Can't you simply give an example of what you mean?
To accuse LocoColt, of all people, of implying racism is just stupid.
I didn't. This is directed at that bigfoot guy, who I do not think is racist, but is just misinformed from retarded racist sources. There is a difference.
I'd say to learn to read between the lines, but first you need to learn to read the lines themselves. Honestly, how your mind functions baffles me.
I like to look at reality and see how it is, and then base my views and opinions on it. It is indeed baffling.
Seriously, to stay on topic, if you people think that color determines criminal activity, simply prove it.
Mm kay, I'm a little late, but the "yoga" and "ass" talk needs to stop. Along with the "morons" and the "idiots" and all the other garbage that takes away from the topic and only gets people pissy at you. If flamebaiting is what you came to do, I need you to stop wasting our time.
However, if you'd like to continue your debate, that's fine.
I have no problem with opposing opinions going back and forth over a topic. That's fine, and you all can throw around as many statistics as you want.
But please, no name calling or smack talk.
And let's get back on topic and save the taste of irony for another discussion. Thank you.
Last edited by OceanEyes28; 03-24-2008 at 06:23 PM.
Curious?
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Okay, the name calling stops here. Sorry about that.
I'd like to say two things.
Firstly, Sasquatch is my favorite person at the moment.
Secondly, vevuxking102, if it's not too much to ask, could you give us a brief stat sheet of yourself, just so we can try and understand who you are, where you're from and the like. It might make it easier for us to see why you feel the way you do. I'm not trying to pry, but more often than not this is helpful in understanding perspective.
For instance, both Sasquatch and myself are white males, aged 22 and 21 respectively. He's from Wisconsin, I'm from New York City. We know you're from Southern Cali and that's about it, other than your implications that you're a nonwhite female.
SOLDIERcHoSeNCrao Porr Cock8- Rebels, Rogues and Sworn Brothers
Hold on Vexus, hold on. You're taking this thread seriously and you're getting your info from Wikipedia. At the same time. I'd get failed on any essay I submitted which had the W word mentioned in it. Luckily, the rest of us aren't really taking this seriously, so it's okay.
Here's the thing.
There is a correlation between ethnic minorities and teen pregnancy, drugs, crime, etc. But it's not because of their bodies, they have no innate deficiency (as a whole); it's about where they live. Even in this day and age, ethnic minorities still band together in 'ghettoes'. They can't afford college or healthcare in the US, they make their money from an illegal, underground economy (read: drugs) which their kids get involved in half the time, there's unemployment, and so on.
Take East Harlem in New York. You're born there a third generation Puerto Rican and you see your parents making their money from bagging coke vials (I'm not saying this happens to every P.R...). You grow up thinking this is the norm, despite them telling you it's wrong. They don't have near enough money to send you to college, so why bother with school? You can clearly see that there's a lot more money to be made from coke than from either some shitty job on a building site or from social security.
Either that, or you make a go of it, get all A's while surrounded by crime, guns, and depravation, get a scholarship, and get the hell out. Or you finish high school, get a white collar job (despite your adress being 'East Harlem NY') and try to pull yourself up to middle class and to the American luxuries which await you, such as decent healthcare and a university education for your kids.
The majority take Route A. But they don't do it because some innate Puerto Rican gene tells them to - they do it because they grew up in it, and it's the easiest way to make a living.
Same basic theory applies to most groups, just with tweaks. Illegal immigrant from Mexico lands in US, gets neat job mowing lawns, will not be long until he looks for better ways to make money, will still not make enough money to get either healthcare or education (sorry, America sucks like that, it really does) and so on...
Cheerybye loves
Uh..can you prove that?Hold on Vexus, hold on. You're taking this thread seriously and you're getting your info from Wikipedia. At the same time. I'd get failed on any essay I submitted which had the W word mentioned in it. Luckily, the rest of us aren't really taking this seriously, so it's okay.
I've heard many people claim Wikipedia is discarded as a bad source of information in the American Education System yet I find no evidence of that, and qualified experts in their respected fields actually promote Wikipedia.
No, they don't. It's absolute sin to involve Wikipedia in any kind of academic work - it's a fail even for HNC essays (HNC isn't too fussy). Anybody who came up with academic research which cited Wikipedia (unless it was research about Wikipedia) would be laughed out of their discipline.
Some of the crap on that website is insane. Yes, it's cool if you're wondering, 'Hey, how do blimps work?' of an afternoon, but beyond that, no.
Maybe the 'American Education System' does accept it, but the Scottish Education System (check ma caps yo) does not. Since the Yank academics tend to shove their standards on everybody else since they're the majority in the international arena (read: most money), I'd assume they don't use Wiki as genuine source.
I'd laugh my silly Scottish arse off if they did though, haha.
Whoaspam. Cool.
ps - you didn't provide evidence either. But I'll leave that be.
Really? Prove it. That's all I ask. Another problem with the whole anti-wikipedia argument is that it does not focus on the individual articles, never citing problems with the actual information presented. What kind of argument is that? All wikipedia articles are is citations and sources, so if you have a problem with the individual article, list the problems, don't blast the entire website. Especially without sources.No, they don't. It's absolute sin to involve Wikipedia in any kind of academic work - it's a fail even for HNC essays (HNC isn't too fussy). Anybody who came up with academic research which cited Wikipedia (unless it was research about Wikipedia) would be laughed out of their discipline.
Examples..?Some of the crap on that website is insane. Yes, it's cool if you're wondering, 'Hey, how do blimps work?' of an afternoon, but beyond that, no.
Proof...? The BBC, from the UK, actually reported that Wikipedia is reliable.Maybe the 'American Education System' does accept it, but the Scottish Education System (check ma caps yo) does not.
They actually do though.Since the Yank academics tend to shove their standards on everybody else since they're the majority in the international arena (read: most money), I'd assume they don't use Wiki as genuine source.
That'd make you look like a fool, though.I'd laugh my silly Scottish arse off if they did though, haha.
I have though. What, the links I provided don't actually exist?
ps - you didn't provide evidence either. But I'll leave that be.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061127-8296.html
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2005/...iew051215.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia
http://mashable.com/2007/08/08/wikipedia-color-coding/
http://trust.cse.ucsc.edu/
Last edited by vevuxking102; 03-26-2008 at 08:27 PM.
Vevux...I'm sorry. This'll have to be the end of our fledgling relationship.
It's not you, it's me. It was me who didn't go back and check to see if you'd edited in new sources to make me look like a blind twat.
I'm sorry it has to end this way. I'll always hold a fond memory of you.
And while we're at it, innate defiency of ethnic minorities! Wanna have a go at my argument on that next? You skipped it before.
Last edited by Govinda; 03-26-2008 at 09:04 PM.
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