First a note about left-wingedness
I really can't believe that people are still accepting the propoganda bull-shit* from the cold war. I really don't see why Communism, Socialism and anything left-wing is seen as evil in the United States.
To me, the image of evil conjures several images:
- Satan
- War
- Inequality
Do you really think that Satan supports free health-care and sharing in hell?
"COMMIE, COMMIE, COMMIE!" - Although this is an exaggeration on my part, this is exactly why I don't like to participate in the I.D. forum on TFF. The propoganda that was drilled into every US citizen is probably the longest running propoganda in recent history. Socialism and Communism's key point is equality, no country has ever been communist or socialist, but the closer countries (rather than the ones that claimed to be, i.e. the Soviet Union). Equality can never be branded a bad thing.
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I'm not saying that universal health-care is perfect. To be honest my family have health insurance which is used only for very specialised cases that may not be available quickly on the NHS. However it certainely works better than health-insurance.
On the monetary side of things, we have to remember that there is a world-wide recession. Most things are failing financially, the state of European health-care may have racked up debts, but only a fool would state that those debts are worse than the debts the US have acquired through much less urgent things.
How much do you pay for health-care insurance? If taxes were increased to support a universal health-care system then would it cost as much as private health-care? No.
I can't exactly find who said it, but I think a few people have thrown out the idea that doctors would suffer from universal health care. Take a look at these figures:
Average Salary of a Doctor in the United States
That implies non-nationalised doctors recieve around $144,000 per year. Nationalised doctors in the UK tend to earn around £100,000 a year, about two years ago that would be $200,000 a year, from a nationalised service. Now it's only around $150,000 a year. I can't really see doctor's wages being slashed too dramatically since the average UK doctor gets paid more than the average US doctor.
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Let's look at the entire quote for this one:Originally Posted by Locke4God
What's wrong with that quote (aside from the fact that it's *communist* by trying to get you to help your country.)?
"Ask what you can do for your country."
Would supporting 'Obama-care' not be supporting your country? After all, it supports citizens of the country.
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This is where I expect this post to get long. Griffith you posted a link to a letter from a physician, who I honestly feel is a biased source. This is why.
The physician's opinion on the bill:
It is simply unjust at the moment that any organisation should make a profit out of the 'business' that is life and death. If they're making an absolute fortune then anyone has the right to exploit this wrong-doing.Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!
A committee that will likely judge on these treatments based on people's needs rather than the cost-effectiveness of the entire operation.Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
For this I actually downloaded the Proposed Health Care BillPage 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
It seems that healthcare will in fact be 'rationed' to the point that a family cannot put outragous plastic-surgery appointments into the healthcare system every few weeks. Very few families will come close to the $10,000 mark as the prices that Hospitals currently charge are simply unrealistically expensive. Do you really think it costs $20,000 to pay for bypass surgery? The surgeons are already being paid out of their salary and the equipment used most likely does not come to $20,000. Not to mention that the expensive equipment will get used more than once.
Why should you recieve treatment that you don't need?Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!
Do you mean immigrants, Dr. Fraser? I was quite sure that at the time of establishment, America consisted entirely of immigrants and Native-Americans. Does that mean that only Native-Americans should recieve health-care?Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise
Or is it because they don't pay tax you have an issue with it? Do you really think there will be millions flocking to the US for free healthcare?
Does that mean you trust the health-care companies (who can do that just now) more than the government that you elected?Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
You mean they can't already?Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to you ur banks accounts for elective funds transfer.
So retirees shouldn't be re-imbursed?Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).
Meaning they can stop unfair plans.Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.
Not everybody's first language is English. America, being the 'land of the free' should tolerate that.Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens.
And...?Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
Covered that.Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.
They're still allowed to keep their private-plans. They'll just be on the system.Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.
Prices are already fixed - and they are too high. If one company can convince customers to pay a certain amount then everyone will charge that amount. (Which is weird since everywhere else, people fight to have the lowest prices and hence the largest custom).Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.
Believe it or not but the government are not completely idiotic. They will not dramatically change the pay of doctors as they don't want to have every doctor in the US sueing them.Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)
If the employee still wants private health-care, they still have access. They are simply being put on the system.Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE!
Everybody pays for everybody. There shouldn't be a problem.Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
I thought they had to anyway?Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.
Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.
Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
Since this is a minorty of the people who may use the system, it shouldn't be too much of a burden.Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)
After this point I stopped reading the letter. Since most of the things after it were simply repetition of what had already been said.
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Can I also state that anyone who has not read Arthur Miller's 'Death of a Salesman' should do so before they argue that everyone has the freedom to be as successful or unsuccessful as everyone else.
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