is FFVII THE BEST?!?

[MonStErbro64]

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Guest/Desktop/barrel%20gif.gif[/IMG] whats your favorite final fantasy?

[The_Dream_Recluse]

In my personal opinion FFVII was my favourite, however i don't think it's really fair to compare which one was 'best'. They all bring something different to the series, sometimes for better or for worse. I enjoy VII because it was my first, and i found it to have a deep and meaningful storyline and a cast of interesting characters. I loved the world it was based in, i loved the villain and his personal struggle (even if he did become a little cheesy) and most of all i loved the chocobos! Breeding is probably my favourite feature of the game

[Chocobo_Lover17]

I feel like putting "best" as a label is a little hard to do, but, like you said you usually dub your first as your favorite simply because it's what started it all for you, really got you into the series, and perhaps you feel like you have a certain loyalty to it in a way, you are constantly thinking back to it when you think about why you love Final Fantasy, but indeed they all add something new to the table, and most have things in common, aeons ect.. but in the end they are all final fantasy and we will love them all, although we may not like some aspects of certain ones..its all Final Fantasy in the end..

[NeonLotus76]

It's always difficult for me to choose which Final Fantasy game is the best. I love them all especially III (SNES) and VII (PS1) so it's hard to say which is the best especially when trying to choose between these two

[markandrewkinzett]

Second best FFX SLIGHTLY edges it for me!!!

[Rowan]

FFVII is the best. You are correct.

[Xanatos]

It's due to Final Fantasy VII that JPRG's became popular outside their home country, and for that you have to admire it, as a game though, it has way too many flaws to be called the best.

My favorite one is Final Fantasy IX, mostly due to, aside being a great game of course, nostalgia, and well, the fact that it walked me into world of not just Final Fantasy but RPG in general. That being said, I don't consider it to be the best game in the series, not by a long shoot, that title goes to Final Fantasy XII, a game which in my humble opinion evolved the series in almost every aspect.

[Hero without a Name]

The best is a word that is thrown around a little too much, for example. Is final fantasy the best final fantasy of all time? Depends how you look at it? Is final fantasy VII the best in gameplay? The best in music? Character development? In game play, I'd say yes but that's just my opinion. In character development and music I'd have to give a slight edge to X. But that's just my opinion.

Point is, is final fantasy the best final fantasy of all time? I am a huge final fantasy VII fan and although it has some flaws. The fact that it still talked about to this day and it's over a decade and a half old. Overall, it is the best Final Fantasy.

[Mystyrion]

Yeah, I'd have to agree that most people's favorite final fantasy is their first.

During my first years getting into final fantasy yeah, it was my absolute favorite. The VII collection probably still is my favorite.
But the game alone, I don't know anymore. I enjoy so much of the entire series that it's become too hard to choose a favorite.

If I had to guess it would be something like this
VII > IX > X > XIII
But still none of that is set in stone, I love each game for such a completely different reason.

[foster kid]

let me ask a question here and the anwser to this question will answer your question as well....... What final fantasy game is the only one to get at least 2 movies made about it...... 3 if you count the re-realese..... and has spawned 3 spin offs or whatever you want to call it..... what game has been the biggest cash cow for squarsoft/squarenix?
For over 14 years this game has been talked about countless times by everyone in the gaming business.....even hideo kojima...... When fan boys/girls hear the name of this game 2 things happen.....1 they cream themseves and 2 it sparks up talk of a remake.... which brings me to this..... what game has been petitioned for a remake more times than any other final fantasy? what final fantasy game was chosen to show off the power and tech of the ps3? which ever since then has had almost the entire gaming community dreaming and wanting and talking about a re make and when/if we are ever gonna see it...............the answer?


Final Fantasy 7!!!!!!!

Now tell me somthing, how can some of you sit there and deny that this was the best final fantasy? No other final fantasy game can even come close to the almost godlyness of this game..... yes i know i made up a word or misspelled it sue me........
Now maybe the success of 7 has to do with the face that mostly the worlds grown ups between 20 and lets say 40.....have grown up with this game and hell it was prob their first rpg of any kind. so that could have something to do with it as well. but this still doesn't change the fact that about 97% of gamers who played ff7 love this game and hold it dear to our hearts. and at the end of the day almost everyone still wants our damn remake and square knows it they also have to know that whatever the cost of the remake, they will prob get it all back times 7.......just sayin..... in closing, naysayers please recognize ff7 as what it is.....a fanboys wet dream.... a cash cow...... and the for the states, the start of somthing amazing..... simply put the best final fantasy......

now here is the list of final fantasy games movies and whatever else i have seen...
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 7 crisis core
Final Fantasy 7 before crisis
Final Fantasy 7 Dirge of cerberus
Final Fantasy 7 ....uh the mobile part 2 of dirge of cerberus.....
if my memory serves correct......a final fantasy 7 cartoon in japan
a Final Fantasy 7 anime movie showing the events leading up to the game.
Final Fantasy 7 advent children
Final Fantasy 7 advent children complete
plush toys and action figures
now i hear that someone is attempting to re make 7 using the unreal engine...seen that on facebook........but anyway look at that list.....name another final fantasy with as much or more spin offs or whatever you want to call it........... i hope i prooved my point

[Xanatos]

let me ask a question here and the anwser to this question will answer your question as well....... What final fantasy game is the only one to get at least 2 movies made about it...... 3 if you count the re-realese..... and has spawned 3 spin offs or whatever you want to call it..... what game has been the biggest cash cow for squarsoft/squarenix?
For over 14 years this game has been talked about countless times by everyone in the gaming business.....even hideo kojima...... When fan boys/girls hear the name of this game 2 things happen.....1 they cream themseves and 2 it sparks up talk of a remake.... which brings me to this..... what game has been petitioned for a remake more times than any other final fantasy? what final fantasy game was chosen to show off the power and tech of the ps3? which ever since then has had almost the entire gaming community dreaming and wanting and talking about a re make and when/if we are ever gonna see it...............the answer?


Final Fantasy 7!!!!!!!

No other final fantasy game can even come close to the almost godlyness of this game..... yes i know i made up a word or misspelled it sue me........
Now maybe the success of 7 has to do with the face that mostly the worlds grown ups between 20 and lets say 40.....have grown up with this game and hell it was prob their first rpg of any kind. so that could have something to do with it as well. but this still doesn't change the fact that about 97% of gamers who played ff7 love this game and hold it dear to our hearts. and at the end of the day almost everyone still wants our damn remake and square knows it they also have to know that whatever the cost of the remake, they will prob get it all back times 7.......just sayin..... in closing, naysayers please recognize ff7 as what it is.....a fanboys wet dream.... a cash cow...... and the for the states, the start of somthing amazing..... simply put the best final fantasy......

now here is the list of final fantasy games movies and whatever else i have seen...
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 7 crisis core
Final Fantasy 7 before crisis
Final Fantasy 7 Dirge of cerberus
Final Fantasy 7 ....uh the mobile part 2 of dirge of cerberus.....
if my memory serves correct......a final fantasy 7 cartoon in japan
a Final Fantasy 7 anime movie showing the events leading up to the game.
Final Fantasy 7 advent children
Final Fantasy 7 advent children complete
plush toys and action figures
now i hear that someone is attempting to re make 7 using the unreal engine...seen that on facebook........but anyway look at that list.....name another final fantasy with as much or more spin offs or whatever you want to call it........... i hope i prooved my point

If you look at it's popularity and success than yes, Final Fantasy VII is indeed by far the best game in franchise. Then again, by that logic Twilight might just be the best series of books/movies or Sims the best game out there.

It's funny that you touched popularity and success, but haven't said anything about Final Fantasy VII as a game and why in those aspects it's in your opinion or as a fact the best game in franchise. Now to answer one of your questions, probably the most important one:

Now tell me somthing, how can some of you sit there and deny that this was the best final fantasy?

A game such as Final Fantasy VII that has immense amount of flaws...

- flawed and easily exploited battle system
- worst translated game in main series, overall barely beaten by Tactics
- story full of plot holes, things got worse with all the prequels and sequels, that fans themselves are trying to fill even today
- over 100 well known bugs and glitches, there are even several walkthroughs dedicated to formentioned issue
- horrible graphics even for it's time
- horrible villain that shares way to many similarities with Kefka Palazzo
- A lot used from Final Fantasy VI outside standard Final Fantasy elements

and this is just top of my head

... in my humble opinion (I have to specifically write this as some people think I'm throwing my opinion as a fact) cannot be considered the best game in franchise. Besides, Final Fantasy VII is second best game in franchise according to metacritic and not even close according to creator of Final Fantasy Hironobu Sakaguchi.

Take this as an answer to your question, and not me trying to bash your opinion.

[foster kid]

If you look at it's popularity and success than yes, Final Fantasy VII is indeed by far the best game in franchise. Then again, by that logic Twilight might just be the best series of books/movies or Sims the best game out there.

It's funny that you touched popularity and success, but haven't said anything about Final Fantasy VII as a game and why in those aspects it's in your opinion or as a fact the best game in franchise. Now to answer one of your questions, probably the most important one:



A game such as Final Fantasy VII that has immense amount of flaws...

- flawed and easily exploited battle system
- worst translated game in main series, overall barely beaten by Tactics
- story full of plot holes, things got worse with all the prequels and sequels, that fans themselves are trying to fill even today
- over 100 well known bugs and glitches, there are even several walkthroughs dedicated to formentioned issue
- horrible graphics even for it's time
- horrible villain that shares way to many similarities with Kefka Palazzo
- A lot used from Final Fantasy VI outside standard Final Fantasy elements

and this is just top of my head

... in my humble opinion (I have to specifically write this as some people think I'm throwing my opinion as a fact) cannot be considered the best game in franchise. Besides, Final Fantasy VII is second best game in franchise according to metacritic and not even close according to creator of Final Fantasy Hironobu Sakaguchi.

Take this as an answer to your question, and not me trying to bash your opinion.

One of the main reasons i didn't bring up the gameplay or story or anything is because i was kinda on a rant and i seen that my post was already very long lol I personally have not seen all the problems with the game you have. and graphics really doesn't make or break a game lol i mean obviously since its sold more than any ff game lol. I have not played ff6 yet so i dunno about the villians being alike .... i hope to play it in 2 weeks when i get a psn card ..... i will however agree that the translations has been the biggest failure i have ever seen.
I actually loved the story even though fillers could have been place in there to bring it together more but i really don't have much complaints about it, and i just got done playing it again lol so for me character development and the story is what makes ff7 the best one in my eyes.Sims and twilight may very well be the best......selling but well i can't judge cause i never read sparkly tweenk emo vampires so yea..... Maybe FF7 just came around at the right time and right place who knows......i respect your opinion on the subject....... Hey maybe if they do get there head out of there asses at squarenix and re make 7..... they will obviously fix graphics lol but maybe they will fix the story holes and some other problems others have with it.....
guess we just gotta wait and see ..................

[Xanatos]

One of the main reasons i didn't bring up the gameplay or story or anything is because i was kinda on a rant and i seen that my post was already very long lol I personally have not seen all the problems with the game you have. and graphics really doesn't make or break a game lol i mean obviously since its sold more than any ff game lol. I have not played ff6 yet so i dunno about the villians being alike .... i hope to play it in 2 weeks when i get a psn card ..... i will however agree that the translations has been the biggest failure i have ever seen.
I actually loved the story even though fillers could have been place in there to bring it together more but i really don't have much complaints about it, and i just got done playing it again lol so for me character development and the story is what makes ff7 the best one in my eyes.Sims and twilight may very well be the best......selling but well i can't judge cause i never read sparkly tweenk emo vampires so yea..... Maybe FF7 just came around at the right time and right place who knows......i respect your opinion on the subject....... Hey maybe if they do get there head out of there asses at squarenix and re make 7..... they will obviously fix graphics lol but maybe they will fix the story holes and some other problems others have with it.....
guess we just gotta wait and see ..................

You tried to prove something by mentioning popularity and suscess, unfortunatelly for you, it doesn't work that way, at least not in video game industry. Look at Okami and Psychonauts, both games are considered to be one of the best in their respective genre, despite their reputation and excellent reviews they still sold miserably.

As for the flaws, as I said to another member of TFF recently, you don't really have to take my word on it, everything I wrote can be checked online. Some of those flaws might not bother you, or perhaps another fan or two, but they're still flaws nevertheless and should be taken into consideration when looking at the game as a whole. If and when they do decide to remake Final Fantasy VII, it might end up being a perfect game, right now, it's far from that, thus in my opinion cannot be the best game in franchise.

[foster kid]

You tried to prove something by mentioning popularity and suscess, unfortunatelly for you, it doesn't work that way, at least not in video game industry. Look at Okami and Psychonauts, both games are considered to be one of the best in their respective genre, despite their reputation and excellent reviews they still sold miserably.

As for the flaws, as I said to another member of TFF recently, you don't really have to take my word on it, everything I wrote can be checked online. Some of those flaws might not bother you, or perhaps another fan or two, but they're still flaws nevertheless and should be taken into consideration when looking at the game as a whole. If and when they do decide to remake Final Fantasy VII, it might end up being a perfect game, right now, it's far from that, thus in my opinion cannot be the best game in franchise.

there are alot of games that are like that there called underground hits lol.
you may be right there might alot of flaws i just haven't seen them. they are prob there im not denying it, im just saying i didn't notice that many some of the ones i seen could be over looked. and some i wished was fixed. I agree on the re make as well it just might end up being perfect after all. I mean one thing is certain..... its either gonna be better overall than the original or a complete fail.......and i have said it already and my opinion on this won't change and neither will yours and thats ok. but as i have said.... the only reason i hold it up so hi and thank its such a great game is because it is so close to my heart and it was the first rpg i ever played it turned me into a gamer from playing the first 15 min of the game.......so needless to say my opinion is one sided. I could be wrong about everything i say about the game just like i am wrong about alpha protocol.....i love that game.... the reveiws are horrible it didn't sale well.....my point is it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks about the game, it just matters what you as a individual thinks about it and how you feel about it. I think its great, havn't had as much fun with any other ff as i did with 7 but again haven't played them all and even if i did it prob wouldn't change..... but thats just me. can't help the way i feel.

[Crescent]

let me ask a question here and the anwser to this question will answer your question as well....... What final fantasy game is the only one to get at least 2 movies made about it...... 3 if you count the re-realese..... and has spawned 3 spin offs or whatever you want to call it..... what game has been the biggest cash cow for squarsoft/squarenix?
For over 14 years this game has been talked about countless times by everyone in the gaming business.....even hideo kojima...... When fan boys/girls hear the name of this game 2 things happen.....1 they cream themseves and 2 it sparks up talk of a remake.... which brings me to this..... what game has been petitioned for a remake more times than any other final fantasy? what final fantasy game was chosen to show off the power and tech of the ps3? which ever since then has had almost the entire gaming community dreaming and wanting and talking about a re make and when/if we are ever gonna see it...............the answer?


Final Fantasy 7!!!!!!!

Now tell me somthing, how can some of you sit there and deny that this was the best final fantasy? No other final fantasy game can even come close to the almost godlyness of this game..... yes i know i made up a word or misspelled it sue me........
Now maybe the success of 7 has to do with the face that mostly the worlds grown ups between 20 and lets say 40.....have grown up with this game and hell it was prob their first rpg of any kind. so that could have something to do with it as well. but this still doesn't change the fact that about 97% of gamers who played ff7 love this game and hold it dear to our hearts. and at the end of the day almost everyone still wants our damn remake and square knows it they also have to know that whatever the cost of the remake, they will prob get it all back times 7.......just sayin..... in closing, naysayers please recognize ff7 as what it is.....a fanboys wet dream.... a cash cow...... and the for the states, the start of somthing amazing..... simply put the best final fantasy......

now here is the list of final fantasy games movies and whatever else i have seen...
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 7 crisis core
Final Fantasy 7 before crisis
Final Fantasy 7 Dirge of cerberus
Final Fantasy 7 ....uh the mobile part 2 of dirge of cerberus.....
if my memory serves correct......a final fantasy 7 cartoon in japan
a Final Fantasy 7 anime movie showing the events leading up to the game.
Final Fantasy 7 advent children
Final Fantasy 7 advent children complete
plush toys and action figures
now i hear that someone is attempting to re make 7 using the unreal engine...seen that on facebook........but anyway look at that list.....name another final fantasy with as much or more spin offs or whatever you want to call it........... i hope i prooved my point

Hehehehe. You have.Thoroughly.

[Josh_R]

I wouldn't say that it is the best, but I would say however that is probably the most well known of all of the FF games. While it is personally in my top 5 favorite rpg games I still don't believe it is the best. All games have there flaws, and VII is no different. I think the LoD is world's beyond FFVII by the way.

[loaf]

Foster kid. I can stomp on your statement...

FFVII is not the most money making game in their company.

Alright?

Final Fantasy XI is the most money making game. It still is giving them tons of cash even today. So in that logic, FFXI is the best FF game ever.

[foster kid]

Foster kid. I can stomp on your statement...

FFVII is not the most money making game in their company.

Alright?

Final Fantasy XI is the most money making game. It still is giving them tons of cash even today. So in that logic, FFXI is the best FF game ever.

........really? .......really?......its a friggin MMO of course it banks alot of cash....... you gotta freakin pay for everything.......but hey good point you win.....good game ...... good game

[Crescent]

STUPID, STUPID QUESTION but hey on a side note check out IGN's "Top 100 Video Game Moments of all time"...

[Michael-H]

Big list, its kinda ironic how ff10 was the first to have a sequal direct sequal at least

[Nas Lost]

not in my opinion. then again, your question is an opinionated one.
7 isnt in my top 5.

X- has my favorite music
VI- has my favorite characters
IX- has my favorite story
V- has my favorite gameplay
IV- has a little bit of all of the above(along with VI)

VII has none of those(although the soundtrack was decent)

[nix]

Wow, wow, wow, woooow! wait just a minute... What plot holes does FFVII have? I've played the game countless times (long ago mind you) and cant recall any plot holes..

And Nas, cmon brah FFIV is a piece of crap, next to zero story in the game..

And XII evolved the series alright, into crap stories, crap battles, crap characters, crap freedom. and it set up the same trend for XIII.. I would have been happier going to the store, picking up a piece of crap off the shelf and paying the same price than wasting my time playing those two games.

As for what game is the best, none are, your opinion is all that matters. If you think VII is the best, then so be it, think that, dont knock someone for liking it over another, that mind set is flawed. And thats all that would be flawed..

I personally loved 7, 9 and 10, i enjoyed 7 the most as it lasted longer for me than all of the others and i prefered the world and characters it was set in...

9 was also good but it didnt stay consistent story wise the whole way through like 7 did for me..

Also, These threads are pointless, stop attaching yourself to a product and treating it as your creation and an entity that you must defend verbally over and over..

[Nas Lost]

Wow, wow, wow, woooow! wait just a minute... What plot holes does FFVII have? I've played the game countless times (long ago mind you) and cant recall any plot holes..

And Nas, cmon brah FFIV is a piece of crap, next to zero story in the game..

And XII evolved the series alright, into crap stories, crap battles, crap characters, crap freedom. and it set up the same trend for XIII.. I would have been happier going to the store, picking up a piece of crap off the shelf and paying the same price than wasting my time playing those two games.

As for what game is the best, none are, your opinion is all that matters. If you think VII is the best, then so be it, think that, dont knock someone for liking it over another, that mind set is flawed. And thats all that would be flawed..

I personally loved 7, 9 and 10, i enjoyed 7 the most as it lasted longer for me than all of the others and i prefered the world and characters it was set in...

9 was also good but it didnt stay consistent story wise the whole way through like 7 did for me..

Also, These threads are pointless, stop attaching yourself to a product and treating it as your creation and an entity that you must defend verbally over and over..

i liked IV's story, it wasnt too complex but i like the redemption theme of the deal, and the plot twist of

Spoiler: Golbez being Cecil's brother and not really being a bad guy, just being controlled

and its not just the story i like, but the gameplay and the characters. Rydia FTW>>>>>>

and the music of course

next to zero story would be the first 3 games(in my opinion)

as for 12 and 13, they werent amazing, but they werent crap either. despite 13's flaws im looking forward to 13-2. i guess we can agree to disagree, i respect your opinion.

[loaf]

XII makes VII look like I.

But that's for a different topic.

VII is good but has a lot of flaws.

[nix]

VII is good but has a lot of flaws.

Such as?

[Xanatos]

Such as?

- second worst translation in franchise, barely beaten by Tactics.
- over 100 well known bugs and glitches.
- flawed and easily exploited battle system, while flexible and fun to mess around with it's not really fun to kill your strongest enemies with one punch or two, is it?
- plot holes, the ones I noticed are mostly regarding Cloud and Sephiroth, then again, might not be plot holes per se, but there are quite a few parts, parts important to main story such as Cloud's change of personality, Sephiroth's defeat and immortality, that don't make much sense no matter how you look at it. There's also connectivity issue with other medias in same universe but that shouldn't be look at, VII is a stand alone title despite all of it's sequels and prequels
- horrible graphics which apparently weren't all that revolutionary after all, VII got bitch slapped by Nights Into Dreams as far as graphics goes and that game was released one year before VII
- characters in general, you might like angsty ****ed up teens but that's not really my thing so I'll add this as a flaw. Not to mention a horrible villain who by the way shares way too many similarities with Kefka, has mommy issues and apparently is brilliant and all powerful but get's badly beaten by the same guy three times in a row, also his biggest accomplishment came eight years after original game and even that is not what he was searching for, not by a long shoot according to FF Wiki

I'm sure this is what Loaf is aiming at.

XII makes VII look like I.

This is true on so many levels.

[nix]

- second worst translation in franchise, barely beaten by Tactics.
- over 100 well known bugs and glitches.
- flawed and easily exploited battle system, while flexible and fun to mess around with it's not really fun to kill your strongest enemies with one punch or two, is it?
- plot holes, the ones I noticed are mostly regarding Cloud and Sephiroth, then again, might not be plot holes per se, but there are quite a few parts, parts important to main story such as Cloud's change of personality, Sephiroth's defeat and immortality, that don't make much sense no matter how you look at it. There's also connectivity issue with other medias in same universe but that shouldn't be look at, VII is a stand alone title despite all of it's sequels and prequels
- horrible graphics which apparently weren't all that revolutionary after all, VII got bitch slapped by Nights Into Dreams as far as graphics goes and that game was released one year before VII
- characters in general, you might like angsty ****ed up teens but that's not really my thing so I'll add this as a flaw. Not to mention a horrible villain who by the way shares way too many similarities with Kefka, has mommy issues and apparently is brilliant and all powerful but get's badly beaten by the same guy three times in a row, also his biggest accomplishment came eight years after original game and even that is not what he was searching for, not by a long shoot according to FF Wiki

I'm sure this is what Loaf is aiming at.



This is true on so many levels.

Ok the only translation issue i saw was with the jenova guys in black cloaks, what else was there?

Over 100 bugs and glitches?? besides the 99 megalixers bug what else is there??

the battle system is exploited by vast knowledge and by leveling ALOT, the same with any FF game. im sorry, are you under the impression the FF battle systems are ruled by any element of skill??? They are not, they are all easy..

And your main complaint about Sephiroth is that his gripe is like many others, ive nevwer played FFV/VI due to it never been available in my region (Europe) but i can name numerous games/movies in which villains follow a similar path, they can be classed as character flaws/traits, whats your point?

Gaphics issues? sure but considring the size of the game and hardware available at the time, im sure they did the best they could, i know it didnt bother me at the time. And the FMV's were far above par for a PSX game..

And characters were developed as they were, you may try and slot them into "angsty washed up teens" but that would only slot in Cloud and Yuffie maybe...

Plot holes regarding Cloud and Seph, lets hear them...




Can you please tell me how XII surpassed VII? in story, main character looking out for tifa, XII main charatcer looking out for sister, and dude with fro looking out for son, blah blah blah. XII Sucked! Character wise and story and the summons sucked major balls. It was like a running soap opera i didnt care for... I wish i did, but i guess being enlightened wenches that..

Oh to be older, wiser and drunk.. puhhhhh

[Xanatos]

Ok the only translation issue i saw was with the jenova guys in black cloaks, what else was there?

Over 100 bugs and glitches?? besides the 99 megalixers bug what else is there??

the battle system is exploited by vast knowledge and by leveling ALOT, the same with any FF game. im sorry, are you under the impression the FF battle systems are ruled by any element of skill??? They are not, they are all easy..

And your main complaint about Sephiroth is that his gripe is like many others, ive nevwer played FFV/VI due to it never been available in my region (Europe) but i can name numerous games/movies in which villains follow a similar path, they can be classed as character flaws/traits, whats your point?

Gaphics issues? sure but considring the size of the game and hardware available at the time, im sure they did the best they could, i know it didnt bother me at the time. And the FMV's were far above par for a PSX game..

And characters were developed as they were, you may try and slot them into "angsty washed up teens" but that would only slot in Cloud and Yuffie maybe...

Plot holes regarding Cloud and Seph, lets hear them...




Can you please tell me how XII surpassed VII? in story, main character looking out for tifa, XII main charatcer looking out for sister, and dude with fro looking out for son, blah blah blah. XII Sucked! Character wise and story and the summons sucked major balls. It was like a running soap opera i didnt care for... I wish i did, but i guess being enlightened wenches that..

Oh to be older, wiser and drunk.. puhhhhh

My my, what do we have here. I'm not sure where to begin, I guess XII supremacy is a good start as any.

First of all, you clearly didn't play XII, either that or you don't know shit about it's story, which makes me wonder, how can you compare two games if you lack knowledge about one of those games? Vaan didn't search for his sister, he doesn't have any family to search for, I guess the huge orphan cue wasn't clear enough for you.

As for the comparison at hand, XII has only huge open spaces to roam around, real scale world map, non random battles, gorgeous graphics, excellent voice acting, impressive CGI scenes, but that's superiority from technical stand point, to make this comparison bit more fair I'll rule those elements out.

Now we're left with characters, story, gameplay, music and overall content. While considering those elements, Square decided to pull back from all those cliche and to be honest highly overused parts. Cheesy love story with bit of yaoi there, lame generic villain, angsty teens, one man army and whatnot are all good for Final Fantasy VII, not for XII though.

Protagonist - We have Cloud, a ****ed up angsty teen who wasn't himself through major part of the game both mentally and what he claimed to be, aside strange attraction towards Sephiroth as a leader he caused quite a few problems for the group, making some of the main characters main duty to babysit him. He's arogant, a poser, and probably gay considering he rejected two hot girls and want's to literally be his savior Zack Fair.

Vaan, character who went through a lot of ****ed up things as well seeing as he lost his family, friends, home, watched his brother suffer and eventually die and had to steal to survive, though unlike Cloud he kept his composure. He's a common fella, not your usual one man army protagonist, part of a group rather than leader, optimistic, brave, excited to explore new things and open minded.

Villain - Acording to Square, Sephiroth is by far the strongest being in VII's universe, he's also apparently a brilliant tactician. With that in mind falling for the same trick three times is kinda lame and stupid. Not to mention all those similarities he shares with Kefka. His biggest accomplishment as far as original media goes was burning down a village and killing an innocent defenseless girl, nope, that was actually Jenova, so burning down five house village it is.

Vayne Solidor is unlike any other villain in franchise, he actually had a genuine and selfless goal. His methods may be cruel, but necessary it seems. Great example of a brilliant tactician, after all he managed to fool the entire nation of Ivalice, even God's themselves. Man of pure determination, prepared to sacrifice everything precious to him, to go through hell and all to accomplish his goal and he succeeded at doing so. Even Kefka and Kuja fall short at what Vayne managed to do, while all villains perish his accomplishment is there to stay forever.

Story - Final Fantasy VII - Save the world from big bad guy told bit differently compared to previous game. Typical JPRG story here, couple of teens with emphasis on problems of several individuals told through game. Sadly though, there are quite a few parts left unexplained or given a poor explanation, which resulted with all those theories over the internet, official guides released by Square to patch things down and so fort.

Final Fantasy XII - Somewhat fresh compared to previous games in franchise with emphasis on tyranny, struggle and problems of entire nation rather than few men. The entire cast has something personal on stake here aside the general issue rather than "let's follow the main guy because it's a right thing to do". Subtle love story which I think is better than where franchise has gone after VII just to please mass of teens.

Gameplay - I actually like to mess around with materia system, there are several nifty combinations, but you don't really have to be intelligent to come up with a tactic that will annihilate everything in front of you making this game look like Kirby's Adventure on super easy mode. Place mimic materia along with powerful limit break and that's where game pretty much ends.

On the other hand, gambits give you as much control over your characters and tactics as you want, you may even chose in which manner you want to play this game be it old school or having help of AI. The amount of combinations you can assemble while entering into a battle is simply staggering. You can approach any battle in so many ways without actually triggering a combination where you kill uber powerful opponent in one move or two which is my main issue with materia system.

Overall Content - no contest here, XII features more content than any other game in franchise, and for obvious reason. This game has more references to older titles than IX itself, not to mention sheer amount of weapons, items, information about it's world. Speaking about world history, VII had a great thing going on, it's a shame they didn't explore that area more. You can find out a lot about Ivalice, it's history and locations, such information spans through several games, something VII and it's related media failed to do.

Expect part two Nix, I'm not nearly done, right now I need to rest a bit, long day you know, for now feel free to nitpick what I wrote.

[nix]

My my, what do we have here. I'm not sure where to begin, I guess XII supremacy is a good start as any.

First of all, you clearly didn't play XII, either that or you don't know shit about it's story, which makes me wonder, how can you compare two games if you lack knowledge about one of those games? Vaan didn't search for his sister, he doesn't have any family to search for, I guess the huge orphan cue wasn't clear enough for you.

As for the comparison at hand, XII has only huge open spaces to roam around, real scale world map, non random battles, gorgeous graphics, excellent voice acting, impressive CGI scenes, but that's superiority from technical stand point, to make this comparison bit more fair I'll rule those elements out.

Now we're left with characters, story, gameplay, music and overall content. While considering those elements, Square decided to pull back from all those cliche and to be honest highly overused parts. Cheesy love story with bit of yaoi there, lame generic villain, angsty teens, one man army and whatnot are all good for Final Fantasy VII, not for XII though.

Protagonist - We have Cloud, a ****ed up angsty teen who wasn't himself through major part of the game both mentally and what he claimed to be, aside strange attraction towards Sephiroth as a leader he caused quite a few problems for the group, making some of the main characters main duty to babysit him. He's arogant, a poser, and probably gay considering he rejected two hot girls and want's to literally be his savior Zack Fair.

Vaan, character who went through a lot of ****ed up things as well seeing as he lost his family, friends, home, watched his brother suffer and eventually die and had to steal to survive, though unlike Cloud he kept his composure. He's a common fella, not your usual one man army protagonist, part of a group rather than leader, optimistic, brave, excited to explore new things and open minded.

Villain - Acording to Square, Sephiroth is by far the strongest being in VII's universe, he's also apparently a brilliant tactician. With that in mind falling for the same trick three times is kinda lame and stupid. Not to mention all those similarities he shares with Kefka. His biggest accomplishment as far as original media goes was burning down a village and killing an innocent defenseless girl, nope, that was actually Jenova, so burning down five house village it is.

Vayne Solidor is unlike any other villain in franchise, he actually had a genuine and selfless goal. His methods may be cruel, but necessary it seems. Great example of a brilliant tactician, after all he managed to fool the entire nation of Ivalice, even God's themselves. Man of pure determination, prepared to sacrifice everything precious to him, to go through hell and all to accomplish his goal and he succeeded at doing so. Even Kefka and Kuja fall short at what Vayne managed to do, while all villains perish his accomplishment is there to stay forever.

Story - Final Fantasy VII - Save the world from big bad guy told bit differently compared to previous game. Typical JPRG story here, couple of teens with emphasis on problems of several individuals told through game. Sadly though, there are quite a few parts left unexplained or given a poor explanation, which resulted with all those theories over the internet, official guides released by Square to patch things down and so fort.

Final Fantasy XII - Somewhat fresh compared to previous games in franchise with emphasis on tyranny, struggle and problems of entire nation rather than few men. The entire cast has something personal on stake here aside the general issue rather than "let's follow the main guy because it's a right thing to do". Subtle love story which I think is better than where franchise has gone after VII just to please mass of teens.

Gameplay - I actually like to mess around with materia system, there are several nifty combinations, but you don't really have to be intelligent to come up with a tactic that will annihilate everything in front of you making this game look like Kirby's Adventure on super easy mode. Place mimic materia along with powerful limit break and that's where game pretty much ends.

On the other hand, gambits give you as much control over your characters and tactics as you want, you may even chose in which manner you want to play this game be it old school or having help of AI. The amount of combinations you can assemble while entering into a battle is simply staggering. You can approach any battle in so many ways without actually triggering a combination where you kill uber powerful opponent in one move or two which is my main issue with materia system.

Overall Content - no contest here, XII features more content than any other game in franchise, and for obvious reason. This game has more references to older titles than IX itself, not to mention sheer amount of weapons, items, information about it's world. Speaking about world history, VII had a great thing going on, it's a shame they didn't explore that area more. You can find out a lot about Ivalice, it's history and locations, such information spans through several games, something VII and it's related media failed to do.

Expect part two Nix, I'm not nearly done, right now I need to rest a bit, long day you know, for now feel free to nitpick what I wrote.

Sorry i got XII mixed up with XIII with the sister saving sister thing, both games bored me to hell story wise

And i dont really want you to defend XII, i didnt enjoy it and thats all that matters. Again i can understand that you prefer XII over VII but to make claims like they are better and try and pass it off as fact is just stupid.

I'm only curious about the claims you made regarding VII as a matter of interest.

Ok the only translation issue i saw was with the jenova guys in black cloaks, what else was there?

Over 100 bugs and glitches?? besides the 99 megalixers bug what else is there??

the battle system is exploited by vast knowledge and by leveling ALOT, the same with any FF game. im sorry, are you under the impression the FF battle systems are ruled by any element of skill??? They are not, they are all easy..

And your main complaint about Sephiroth is that his gripe is like many others, ive nevwer played FFV/VI due to it never been available in my region (Europe) but i can name numerous games/movies in which villains follow a similar path, they can be classed as character flaws/traits, whats your point?

Gaphics issues? sure but considring the size of the game and hardware available at the time, im sure they did the best they could, i know it didnt bother me at the time. And the FMV's were far above par for a PSX game..

And characters were developed as they were, you may try and slot them into "angsty washed up teens" but that would only slot in Cloud and Yuffie maybe...

Plot holes regarding Cloud and Seph, lets hear them...

Answer them if you will please.

I played XII up until the end of the rescue mission on the lazer maze airship, think it was the leviathan. It was at that point i realised the story wasnt gonna get much better and i gave up on it as i was bored as **** with the game, nothing was appealing to me, so i packed it in. However since you guys have so much love for it, i might just give it another go

Now again, my perspective, my favourite is VII, i dont deem it the best, nobody can actually make that claim and its silly to argue so. I'm just merely here to gain knowledge on the claims you're making against VII as i truly do not know what you are referring too.

[Nas Lost]

- second worst translation in franchise, barely beaten by Tactics.
- over 100 well known bugs and glitches.
- flawed and easily exploited battle system, while flexible and fun to mess around with it's not really fun to kill your strongest enemies with one punch or two, is it?
- plot holes, the ones I noticed are mostly regarding Cloud and Sephiroth, then again, might not be plot holes per se, but there are quite a few parts, parts important to main story such as Cloud's change of personality, Sephiroth's defeat and immortality, that don't make much sense no matter how you look at it. There's also connectivity issue with other medias in same universe but that shouldn't be look at, VII is a stand alone title despite all of it's sequels and prequels
- horrible graphics which apparently weren't all that revolutionary after all, VII got bitch slapped by Nights Into Dreams as far as graphics goes and that game was released one year before VII
- characters in general, you might like angsty ****ed up teens but that's not really my thing so I'll add this as a flaw. Not to mention a horrible villain who by the way shares way too many similarities with Kefka, has mommy issues and apparently is brilliant and all powerful but get's badly beaten by the same guy three times in a row, also his biggest accomplishment came eight years after original game and even that is not what he was searching for, not by a long shoot according to FF Wiki

I'm sure this is what Loaf is aiming at.



This is true on so many levels.

i co-sign this powerful post.