Okay, allow me to try and explain to you what is pissing me off about Marvel. I am swedish and come from a long line of viking warlords and warriors. They believed in the norse gods and as such, the almighty and powerful Thor. Marvel has taken this mythology and made a mockery of the power of Thor. While he is however depicted as mighty and is also acklnolwdeged as a god, why is it that a mere science experiment such as the Hulk, can even challenge him at best? This is an insult to not only the power of Thor, but the idea of what a god is in the first place.
Thor is stronger than the hulk.
Thor doesn't even need to be "stronger" - I think it's reasonable to assume that the Hulk may actually win a battle of PURE strength. But focusing solely on physical strength completely demeans the livelihood of Thor. Thor's strength is only partially physical; in essence, his greatest assets are his worthiness of the Mjollnir, and the godlike weather control and flight and other such awesome things.
Hulk can't pick that shit up.
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My comic lore stretches about as far as reading wikipedia, so I'm not the best to answer. But my understanding is that the Hulk is pretty much nigh invincible, sort of like the Superman of the Marvel universe, but with trouble on the whole friend or foe detection sort of thing. Given that, it'd make him pretty much able to take on a god. Though from what I also understand Thor is considered one of the strongest in the Marvel universe as well. So they sort of both sit on the top tier.
An amusing video someone made trying to scientifically explain Thor's hammer, which in the movie verse he said what looks like magic to others is just science to them or more accurately one and the same. The short version worked with the explanation that the hammer was made from a dead star, which given it's density to mass ratio would have to make Thor the strongest superhero in the Marvel universe just to be able to hold it. On top of it that, due to the gravity well it would generate due to the enormous mass, any normal humans would be vaporized as their bodies are ripped apart due to being pulled in to the gravity well as incredible speeds literally breaking their bodies down. So not only would he be the strongest, but likely kill everyone that came within like a couple planets distance of him. Fun stuff when you try to apply real world physics to superhero fiction.
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Hulk's strength has no actual limit. At least depending on the particular author. The angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, and being up against somebody stronger than him pisses him off. So he just keeps getting stronger until he wins. The only MArvel character whose powers would really make him a good match for the Hulk, is Juggernaut. As it is written, his power is that, once in motion, nothing can stop the Juggernaut. What that translates to in physics, is infinite momentum. The only exception to this is magic, which doesn't have to follow the laws of physics, but Hulk can't exploit that one vulnerability. Infinite momentum means, infinite impulse. Impulse is average force divided by time, and the time is finite, what this effectively means, is that any force exerted by the Juggernaut in a collision, is infinite. Newton's third law, he can't apply any more force to an object, than that object can return. So effectively, anything he hits, is hit as hard as is physically possible. Juggernaut is also shown to be one of the only characters in the Marvel universe who can actually beat Hulk when it comes down to a battle of force, in World War Hulk, Juggs is actually pushing Hulk back, and no matter how much this pisses him off, Juggs keeps going at a constant rate. Juggs also has regenerative powers, and effective immortality (he's been seen in comics fighting for like, 3 pages as a bloody skeleton before regenerating his entire body).
Thor is cool and all, probably my favorite hero, but his powers aren't top tier.
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I hear people say all the time that the Hulk's power has no limit, but his strength is a direct correlation to his anger, meaning that the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets. Thing is, there is a limitation on anger. There's a point where you become so angry that you snap. That is your anger limit, and there is nothing above that point. Everybody has a limit, and that includes Bruce Banner.
Hulk is portrayed like Superman; an invincible. Invincible is boring. Thor is a god, yet he's made interesting by being given weaknesses and limitations. Hulk is just lazy writing, but the fact is, since Hulk gets stronger through anger, all you have to do is tell him jokes and tickle him during a fight, and eventually, he'll turn back into regular Bruce Banner, and at that point, you just stop on his neck a few times until his head pops off. Thor's strength is not determined by his anger; he's just strong. If you tell him jokes and tickle him in a battle to try to lessen his anger, he'll kick your ass anyway.
Thor is stronger than Hulk. I completely agree with that statement. When Hulk is portrayed stronger than Thor, that's just bullshit lazy writing.
Hulk is a shitty character, very lazy writing, but canon is canon. Hulk was written to explore what lies beyond the breaking point of a human being, some earlier incarnations of Hulk have had limits, but recently there hasn't been a limit shown to how angry he can get. He's pounded the shit out of Galactus, Apocalypse, god tier characters. Thor is a well written character, with flaws and weaknesses. Hulk is a Dues Ex Machina with legs.
For Our Lord Sheogorath, without Whom all Thought would be linear and all Feeling would be fleeting. Blessed are the Madmen, for they hold the keys to secret knowledge. Blessed are the Phobic, always wary of that which would do them harm. Blessed are the Obsessed, for their courses are clear. Blessed are the Addicts, may they quench the thirst that never ebbs. Blessed are the Murderous, for they have found beauty in the grotesque. Blessed are the Firelovers, for their hearts are always warm. Blessed are the Artists, for in their hands the impossible is made real. Blessed are the Musicians, for in their ears they hear the music of the soul. Blessed are the Sleepless, as they bask in wakeful dreaming. Blessed are the Paranoid, ever-watchful for our enemies. Blessed are the Visionaries, for their eyes see what might be. Blessed are the Painlovers, for in their suffering, we grow stronger. Blessed is the Madgod, who tricks us when we are foolish, punishes us when we are wrong, tortures us when we are unmindful, and loves us in our imperfection.
To be honest I'm not overly familiar with both Hulk and Thor outside of recent films, they did make occasional appearance or two in the comics I read, though only briefly. I'm not sure who would win in a fight, though as far as character alone goes I would pick Thor any day of the week.
I see some of you compare Hulk with Superman, I ****ing hate that guy, he's so omnipotent it's not even funny.
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I didnt like the way Hulk just picked up Loki and smashed the shit out of him like he was nothing. Loki is also a god, mind you.
I kinda noticed something through my analysis. Hulk being a product of science smashing the crap out of religious figures (norse mythology was once a strong religious belief), it is almost a collective testament to all that science has achieved over religion. You might call it poetic irony.
I'm not sure I'd call Loki a God. He certainly isn't of the Aesir according to most variants of Thor comics. Really Loki isn't that tough, his power lies in staying out of reach, failing that, he's a divine punching bag.
Don't get me started on Superman... The sad thing is, I've actually always liked Superman comics and JLA stories. His character is solid, it's just his powers that make him so damned boring. It should be noted that there are much better written Superman comics in which he isn't all powerful and actually can be beaten by people who don't keep kryptonite in their pants. Darkseid and Doomsday have both kicked the shit out of Supes in various stories. But Superman isn't even the worst offender in DC. Batman is. No powers. Beats Superman every time they fight. Takes Darksied down without throwing a punch. Can defeat the entire JLA with minimal planning. Can walk out the front door after being captured by the Legion of Doom... Batman wields the power of plot, before which all abilities are meaningless.
For Our Lord Sheogorath, without Whom all Thought would be linear and all Feeling would be fleeting. Blessed are the Madmen, for they hold the keys to secret knowledge. Blessed are the Phobic, always wary of that which would do them harm. Blessed are the Obsessed, for their courses are clear. Blessed are the Addicts, may they quench the thirst that never ebbs. Blessed are the Murderous, for they have found beauty in the grotesque. Blessed are the Firelovers, for their hearts are always warm. Blessed are the Artists, for in their hands the impossible is made real. Blessed are the Musicians, for in their ears they hear the music of the soul. Blessed are the Sleepless, as they bask in wakeful dreaming. Blessed are the Paranoid, ever-watchful for our enemies. Blessed are the Visionaries, for their eyes see what might be. Blessed are the Painlovers, for in their suffering, we grow stronger. Blessed is the Madgod, who tricks us when we are foolish, punishes us when we are wrong, tortures us when we are unmindful, and loves us in our imperfection.
According to norse mythology, Loki is a god. He should be represented as such. During Ragnarok, Loki and Heimdal would slay one another. Calling Loki a divine punching bag is an insult to heimdal the mysterious and powerful gatekeeper.
There is nothing that lies beyond the breaking point of emotion. A breaking point is a climax. There is nothing above that limit. Hulk has a limit, and I don't care if in canon writers state that there is no limit to his power, because even lazy writers write canon stories.
As far as Batman goes, he's smart. He's defeated Superman so many times because he's paranoid and always carries Kryptonite with him. He defeated Darkseid without throwing a punch because he's good at thinking on his feet. He can defeat the entire Justice League with ease because he always has a plan. The entire point of Batman is that you don't have to have superpowers to be the most powerful man on earth. All you need is a brain and a plan. Any abilities that anybody has are completely meaningless if you don't give them the chance to use them.
Regarding Loki, he's still considered a god not because he's Odin's son, but because he's not of Midgard. Probably doesn't matter that he's not from Asgard either.
In Norse mythos, he's quite literally the Trickster God.
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This^Originally Posted by Xanatos
Sums up everything that I know n feel about Hulk and Thor(&Superman!) incl Thor being my preferred choice out of the two. Ive never had any interest in them and haven't watched the Avengers movies either. I dont care tbh.
EDIT: @Rowan dw they're on the same team, even tho he's actually holding up a bag of kryptonite xD Superman's just not up to date like my Batman is heh
Last edited by Crescent; 05-30-2014 at 01:41 PM.
Question here for marvel noob:
Why are the good guys fighting each other?
=S
You seem to think I'm supporting Hulk as a character, Clint, I'm not. I hate the Hulk, on the rare occasion I even read a Hulk story, it's for everything else going on. I already know what Hulk's going to do. He's going to smash everything, make no effort to avoid any attacks, take everything right to the face, and regenerate it like nothing happened, and yell incomprehensibly a lot. As with Superman, there was at some point a solid character concept there, but it was buried in lazy writing to the point that not even Stan Lee could find it at this point.
Loki isn't human, but I wouldn't call him a God either. Hell, I wouldn't call Thor one, at least not in the Marvel universe. Odin himself says that they are not Gods, just superior men. In Asgard, magic and science are the same thing. They aren't supernatural, just more advanced. They live and die just like humans. It just takes longer. Marvel's Thor was only loosely based on Norse mythology, and does not accurately reflect the events of the Poetic Edda, Prose Edda, or any other commonly known writings on the Norse mythos. In Norse mythology, Loki is a Jotuun, just like in the comics. The bastard child of an ice giant. He isn't a God at all, and there's nothing to suggest he was ever worshiped as one. He's a recurring antagonist in many Norse tales.
As for Batman... there's a fine line between being prepared and using intellect to solve problems, and having the power of plot behind you. When you happen to have a can of Bat-Shark Repellant in your pants the day somebody throws you into a shark tank, it's safe to say you crossed that line a while ago. Lex Luthor also carries a piece of kryptonite around. Somehow he always loses it when it counts, and the ****er gave him turbo-cancer. Not Batman. Luthor is depicted as arguably the most intelligent being in the DC universe, but his plans always fall through. Batman's always go off without a hitch.
He beat Darkseid because he found the room full of Deus Ex Machina brand (TM) anti planetary explosives, and was able to decrypt and take over alien technology he'd never encountered and had no precedent for understanding. In a short enough time to threaten Darkseid into submitting.
He beat the entire JLA, because Batman radiates a mysterious aura that renders otherwise competant beings completely retarded for the purpose of falling into his traps.
And on the rare occasion that something lethal even goes in Batman's general direction (Notice how every other DC hero gets shot up like crazy, bombed, lasered, Omega beamed in the face, and god knows what else? Batman cracks a rib every so often or gets hit with a rock), there's always a conveniently placed Kryptonian there to save him.
At least with Iron man you can kinda explain all the contingency plans, since he has 800 different suits, each fitted with dozens of weapons and powers. Batman has one belt. That thing can't hold everything. Does he just go to his desk drawer down in the Bat cave when he's getting ready and think, "You know, I'm really feeling 'shark attack' today... definitely packing the Bat-shark repellant for this one. Even though as far as I know I'm not going to be anywhere near water." I mean comon... Batman is the King of plot power.
Still love Batman though.
For Our Lord Sheogorath, without Whom all Thought would be linear and all Feeling would be fleeting. Blessed are the Madmen, for they hold the keys to secret knowledge. Blessed are the Phobic, always wary of that which would do them harm. Blessed are the Obsessed, for their courses are clear. Blessed are the Addicts, may they quench the thirst that never ebbs. Blessed are the Murderous, for they have found beauty in the grotesque. Blessed are the Firelovers, for their hearts are always warm. Blessed are the Artists, for in their hands the impossible is made real. Blessed are the Musicians, for in their ears they hear the music of the soul. Blessed are the Sleepless, as they bask in wakeful dreaming. Blessed are the Paranoid, ever-watchful for our enemies. Blessed are the Visionaries, for their eyes see what might be. Blessed are the Painlovers, for in their suffering, we grow stronger. Blessed is the Madgod, who tricks us when we are foolish, punishes us when we are wrong, tortures us when we are unmindful, and loves us in our imperfection.
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