Should XI have been numbered in the Main Series?

[Locke4God]

I promise you that I would love this game had I played it. I'm sure that it's done very well for a MMORPG, but as an avid Final Fantasy fan, what I enjoy most about the series is the single player aspect. I love being able to boot up FFV anytime I want, or any of the other games.

Sadly, I can't do that with XI. I have to pay a monthly fee, and is anybody going to be playing XI 10 or 20 years from now? Probably not, which mean the game has no replay value.

For those reasons I just look at 11 as this eye sore that I'll never be able to play, and I can't in my own mind consider it a part of the series proper. I'm just wondering why it wasn't called Final Fantasy Online I, with XIV being called FF Online II.

And I recognize that the series is always changing and that each game is different. I absolutely love that part of it. I'm just a bit depressed that this game is something I will never be able to experience or replay.

[Andromeda]

No replay value? That's a little absolute there. The way that FFXI is so long as the servers are still around you'll still be able to play it. But it is pretty unfair to judge a game's replay value solely based on where you are able to play a decade later. It's not so much about whether you can and have the ability to do so, so much as do you have the desire to replay it. And think of it this way in twenty years your PS2 dies and your PS3 dies and the PS4 doesn't play PS2 games, you can't get the consoles, but you still have FFX. Does its replay value disappear now that you don't have a console that can play the game? No, you still want to play it, just are unable to do so.

It is a MMO, so replay value is pretty much all it has going for it. It is the ultimate form of replay value personified, because you are more or less playing and doing the same things over and over again for years to get different items or level different jobs. And I've played the game for six years and I still go back each time glad and willing. For a MMO you have to have replay value or no one will sit through repeated level, questing, missions and killing of special monsters day in and day out.

And while I may or not agree with Square's decision on its numbering, you have to take into consideration what makes up the main series. When you compare FFXI to the same formula used in every other main series FF game it keeps going with the same formula. It has the hallmarks of a FF and the story. You even had to have a group of party members to do most story events. It is certainly just as deserving to be in the main series as any other of the games.

[Locke4God]

Hummmm,,,, well I appreciate the response and I understand, but I'm just not buying into that. I'm glad it's a great game and you love playing it, but I feel cheated because I'm not going to invest in such a wildly different game. As you said you've been playing for 6 years. I just don't want that. I don't want to set up an account or pay a monthly fee. Final Fantasy has always been a series you sit down, play a 75-110 hours worth of game by yourself with a singular story and you're done. It's not WarCraft. I love that each game is different, but going online crosses a line for me. It's as different to the main series as Dirge of Cerberus, X2, Crystal Chronicals, or Mystic Quest are, and those aren't a part of the main series. I love the game, but the numbering bothers me. I just don't think it should be in the main series.

[Fluffy]

Honestly, I would have preferred it was called Final Fantasy Online, instead of Final Fantasy XI Online.

But I've gotten over it. It really doesn't matter. It's just a name. Or a number, rather.

And lol, yeah. 5+ years of playing a game. No replay value doesn't quite describe it. Maybe you could say it lacks longevity, as it will eventually die, probably never to be seen again. But if there's one thing it has, it's replay value. You do the same things over and over again, many people doing it for years. And many quit and come back later.

Either way, it's not going to change, so I suggest you learn to live with it. It's already titled.

[Andromeda]

FFXI came before World of Warcraft, so you can't really make that a solid comparison.

But sure most people sit down and play a FF game for 40 hours and move on or 80 hours and move on. I have put nearly a 1000 hours into FFX and I've put 200 days into FFXI. It is just a difference of time, but I've still invested and sank a lot of time into a single player game. What you get out of it is what you get out of it and you can play them as much as you play a MMO if you're fanatical about them.

However, would you have the same problem if it was free to play? You could just jump on and play as long as you wanted free of charge? Pretty sure you'd jump on the wagon. The fee is the only thing stopping you not really the fact that is a slightly different genre of RPG. Just because something charges you shouldn't be a factor in discounting it.

You realize that FFXI is Square Enix's most successful and most profitable FF game ever. They publicly announced this fact that FFXI has made them more money than any other single FF game in the history of the franchise. While the name alone is enough, I think part of this is a business and marketing move, which in the end you can't really disagree with. It's more profitable than FFVII one of the best selling games in the franchise. And it'll continue to be so for quite some time until FFXIV manages to over take it until FFXIV is free to pay.

But you can try out FFXI for free for a month and then stop and not pay more than the cost of software or the free PC trial. Then you can say you've played the game and not be missing out on a game in the franchise.

However, FFX-2 is part of the main series as well. Its the only sequel, but it is still part of the main series. And be some technicalities FFVII-Dirge of Cerberus is part of the main series its just under the FFVII Umbrella of games at this point along with Crisis Core and Before Crisis. You can dispute them being part of the main series and I won't really argue too long about it, but FFX-2 for how much people hate it is part of the main series, sequel or otherwise. Just like people think it is should be FF Online its just something you have to get used to. Its the main series and its going to remain that way.

The bright side? Unlike with FFX and FFXII there won't be a 6 year gap between FFXIII and FFXV. Probably just a three year one. ^^; I understand your feelings on the matter, but its a matter of money in most people's eyes more than anything. Money matters, I know. And so all 5 million FF fans won't be playing FFXIV and they'll all say its not a FF game because its a MMO. But its still FFXIV and argue what you will SE's not changing it. It's about the money when you get down to it and not that its an MMO. Because you know those fans would be playing FFXI if it was free and it'd be a huge community and they wouldn't say word one that its not a real FF game.

[Che]

However, FFX-2 is part of the main series as well. Its the only sequel, but it is still part of the main series. And be some technicalities FFVII-Dirge of Cerberus is part of the main series its just under the FFVII Umbrella of games at this point along with Crisis Core and Before Crisis. You can dispute them being part of the main series and I won't really argue too long about it, but FFX-2 for how much people hate it is part of the main series, sequel or otherwise. Just like people think it is should be FF Online its just something you have to get used to. Its the main series and its going to remain that way.

I'd actually rather argue that FFX-2 shouldn't be part of the main series more so than FFXI. **** that game.

[Locke4God]

@ Andromeda - Actually I wouldn't have a big problem if it was free and I could just log on and play. And I'd like to know that if I played in say 15 years, that the servers are guaranteed to be up and running and I could still access the game. That would be ok. Overall it's not really about the money, but about the access. I just want to plug in and play.

In fact, maybe you could tell me, as I really don't know. I'm scared the game really doesn't have a core story akin to the others, with a final boss and that type of thing. Please let me know.

[Che]

The game actually does have a pretty well thought-out story, with bosses, etc. I actually liked doing the mission and quests you have to do to advance throughout it.

[Andromeda]

Yeah, I know that someone would get upset that I'm saying FFX-2 is main series, Che. ^^;

But like Che said there is a main storyline for FFXI. One of the selling points for FFXI is the fact that unlike most MMO there is a solid storyline, with cutscenes. And you know what's even better there are three storylines that are all more or less intertwined together. And even better there are four more storylines that you explore in each of the expansions. But one of the most rewarding things from the story is that as you play through the story you learn so much about the world. All of those things you pass day in and day out not thinking too much about and maybe some times thinking that there much be a story behind it, usually there is a story and you'll get to find out.

The story is why is stick around for the most part in FFXI. I want to play the missions and quests because they continue to expand and grow the world. The last expansion is really fun because you get to learn about the past and travel through the past. So you get to see things you know when they were new and shiny.

And apparently Ultima Online is still running, Ultima Online...it is like one of the oldest MMOs out there. Everquest is still running. So I think it would be safe to say that FFXI will still be running for a while. The only really question mark is what FFXIV does to FFXI since it is going to be the spiritual successor to FFXI in many ways. So a lot of people are going to jump ship to FFXIV. Square may stop updating FFXI, but they could probably keep one server up if it got that bad and use FFXIV to fund a server for FFXI. Though seeing that even if they had like 50,000 people playing FFXI it would probably be enough to fund the servers even without FFXIV supporting it. Also long people play it, its pretty much free money for SE.

[Locke4God]

Good info ladies. And thank you.

I do have one other issue though and it's this. I just finished a 2nd play through of FFVI. Great game. But it took about a year. Yeah I know, but I started last August, played an hour or so per day, and then I had this tiny issue where I got married, so for about 2 months I was engaged with that. Then I played some more, but LOST came back on in January and I dropped it for awhile again. Then finally I picked it up and finished.

The moral of the story is, that I have other things I'm doing. I don't want to have to think about how much I'm paying for my FF account and whether or not I'm using it enough to make it worth the while. I want the freedom to stop playing and come back to it, and I think that's hard to do if you've got a monthly account you have to maintain.

[Victoria]

Uhm...you can cancel FFXI if you're not going to use it that much. Just pay for a month and cancel. Then you have 30 days worth to play. Then you won't have to worry about paying for it each month. Just pay another month when you're ready, and then cancel and repeat, etc, etc...

I could've sworn FFXI had prepaid cards...

[Locke4God]

@ mistress Sheena - yeah I appreciate the advice on that, and I get how it works, but that's a hassle to me. I just want to turn it on and play and that's it. I don't have to pay to play my collection of 1-10 right now.

[Victoria]

Sorry to be blunt here; but... so you're pretty much saying that you're just too lazy, right?
Because free MMOs even require you to sign up for an account.

If you just want to turn it on and play, then perhaps online games aren't for you.

Which is completely fine. Just don't go around saying that FFXI sucks or doesn't deserve to have the roman numeral just because you're too lazy to play it.

Edit: You said so yourself that you would play it if it was for free. Well, if it was free, it would still require you to sign up for an account to login with. Email/User/Password at the minimum. From the sounds of things, it's like you don't even want to do that, either. Which gives me the impression that you're just either way too busy for something that will take just a minute or two out of your time, or are just too lazy.

You make it sound like a huge hassle, but really, renewing/canceling your Content ID (is what it's called) takes about a minute or two. Hell, canceling is a lot quicker than renewing.

Edit 2: Oh! Oh! I know what you can do. You can play Guild Wars. That "MMO" is free. (You just have to pay for the game itself.) (It's more an online RPG with MMO elements. You only see the other players in towns and outposts. Hell, even now you can hire NPC party members to play with that you can control a little bit.)

[loaf]

He would still have to install the game and patches, that takes a whole day! I've said it once before, I know it's the principle of having to pay monthly to play a game. Yea well those servers aren't for free, they have to get paid off somehow. I mean, 50 cents a day isn't that bad.

[Che]

Well. It's part of the main series and that's never going to change. So we can debate it forever, but in reality, nothing happens. FFXI is FFXI. It's an online Final Fantasy. All the crazy things that have happened have pretty much come and gone, since, what it is, is a relationship between you and other people you meet. The first time I met Soumakyou on Midgard, the highest level Dragoon before he quit, or Tarutim the US Black Mage who somehow made it to be the first US player to enter an established JP linkshell is just like finding out why Cloud has qualms with Barret, yet deeper. Those things you'll never get to experience if you didn't play FFXI from the start, because those players have come and gone, but you can still experience people you meet in FFXI, although after 10 years they might not be as spunky. But that's what Final Fantasy is, it's the relationships, adventures, and crazy things you come across while moving through this complex story. That's why FFXI fits in the series.

I'm not really friends with Barret anymore, but I know at least two people I've met in FFXI that I still talk to till this very day.

[Locke4God]

@ Mistress Shenea - You hit the nail on the head. I fully admit online games aren't for me, and that's exactly why I don't like XI being in the main series. It's a completely different animal. I wouldn't want an "action" version of FF to be in the main series either if that makes it more palitable. I just don't like the genre, for a number of reasons, but to me it's just not Final Fantasy.

And I didn't say it sucks. In fact I've gone out of my way to say it was a great game. But I don't think it should have been in the main series either. To me it would be like making Tactics part of the main numbered series. Thank god they didn't do that.

[Victoria]

That's being rather selfish of you. Just because a genre of game isn't for you, you say it shouldn't be part of the main series.. =\

That's like me saying "Oh, I don't like FF12, so that shouldn't be part of the main series."
Honestly.. it's part of the main series. Just deal with it.~

xxx~

[Locke4God]

Well I'm not being snippy. And I don't think it's selfish. Let me see if I can break it down. What if say, they turned Final Fantasy into a first person shooter and called it Final Fantasy XV. Wouldn't that seem a little odd to you? And that's how I feel about it being an MMORPG. It's an RPG I guess, but it's not the same.

And again, it's not that I don't like the game. I LIKE IT! It's a great game.

[Jeordam]

I've never even played FFXI for the simple reason is that it is an on-line RPG. Whether or not it was sequentially numbered is kinda besides the point for me. I was totally on board with Tactics when it came out...at a time when almost everyone hated it.

I'm sure that I would like the game (FFXI), but I just can't fathom paying an on-line fee which I would never fully/adequately utilize. I don't get much time playing, and I spend *all* day on a computer as it is. The last thing that I want to do when I get home is fire up my Kom-puter, and sit there for hours.

The concept for FFXI just seems so.....foreign to me. Unlike Warcraft or some other RTS game, they are designed with the multi-player feature prominantly placed in their program. That isn't so with the (typical) FF games. They are almost exclusively a solo venture...maybe some of you would have a co-pilot to read through the guide or some such, but typically we all go out there on our own and get it done.

We enjoy the story, play, graphics, adventure on our own (like reading a book)...so the fact that this one is designed to *not* be a solo...that's just so strange. But well...there it is.

~Jeordam

[Locke4God]

@ Jeordam - Well said

[Victoria]

They are almost exclusively a solo venture...maybe some of you would have a co-pilot to read through the guide or some such, but typically we all go out there on our own and get it done.

So the other members of the party are just an illusion, then? Cloud is doing stuff all on his own? Same with Squall and Zidane?

Oh wait, they have multiple party members...You may be controlling them all yourself, but hey! They're multiple characters!

And that's the thing about FFXI. Multiple party members. FFXI is party oriented. Just like the previous FF games.

So I have no idea what the heck you're talking about. (Well, I do...but game-wise, it's kind of moot..)

Because think of it this way.

FF1-X2 and 12 = Party system.
FF11...? = .....Oh hay~ Party system~! >_>;

Edit: Also, Locke sweetie, please remember to increase the size of your post count. The post above me is nothing but spam. It's just.. "I agree." Why do you agree? Why is it well said? ...If you have nothing more to say than that, why'd you even post? That's what the "Thanks/No Thanks" system is for.

[SOLDIER #819]

Compared to the feeling I to IX gave me, presently it seems like Final Fantasy is all over the place. I didn't think much of it when I played X-2 (which seemed alright from what I played, honestly), but I think it and the FFVII Compilation had a pretty drastic effect on the way Square-Enix approaches the franchise today. A numbered Final Fantasy is not just a standalone title. It's a long-term investment and a franchise in itself. FFXI and FFXIV are irregular titles that are continually in development and FFX and FFXII each had a spinoff. FFXIII is going to have at least two different takes on its universe last I heard years ago, one of which is a full-fledged PS3 title that could possibly surpass in popularity what it branched off from. They're even going back and reinterpreting older FFs with remakes/sequels/spin-offs.

Whether or not we enjoy the prospect of it, numbered FFs aren't going to follow the old formula of being a single-player experience with a universe exclusive to itself. Somehow, they're going to attempt to bait you into paying more than the traditional cost of a single title. An online game is just one of the ways this effort manifests itself.

[Che]

Blizzard is doing the same thing. The new StarCraft II is going to be split up into 3 games, one for each race. In the end it boils down to money, but to be honest, I don't mind spending money on either company as both are A+ in quality with a pink scratch and sniff sticker and note saying Good Job! from the teacher.

[Jeordam]

So the other members of the party are just an illusion, then? Cloud is doing stuff all on his own? Same with Squall and Zidane?

Oh wait, they have multiple party members...You may be controlling them all yourself, but hey! They're multiple characters!

And that's the thing about FFXI. Multiple party members. FFXI is party oriented. Just like the previous FF games.

So I have no idea what the heck you're talking about. (Well, I do...but game-wise, it's kind of moot..)

Because think of it this way.

FF1-X2 and 12 = Party system.
FF11...? = .....Oh hay~ Party system~! >_>;

Edit: Also, Locke sweetie, please remember to increase the size of your post count. The post above me is nothing but spam. It's just.. "I agree." Why do you agree? Why is it well said? ...If you have nothing more to say than that, why'd you even post? That's what the "Thanks/No Thanks" system is for.

I'm not really thinking party members here. As in a FF game, I can't wait to get enough party members to actually have a descent squad. I love switching out people, and finding stuff for the crew and all that. That part of the FF series really gets me.

When I speak of solo missions...I'm talking about *you* actually holding the controller. At any given time in playing a (typical) FF game, there is only one person controlling the actions of the party. That person is making all the decisions for the party...deciding where to go...or just spending time in some town getting their shopping done or catching up on a mini-game.

I can't be alone in staying up all night because the story was so good...or you had to find a save point out in the middle of no where. I remember once where I had no MP, just enough HP to have people (kinda) alive...and no items. So I limped my way out of this huge cave & all the way back to a town.

What I'm trying to communicate is that FF is classically a solo venture. We (the player) are alone in our enjoyment of it. Much like reading a book. It is something we do on our own...as it becomes impossible for two people to read the same book at the same time. We read it at different speeds, we understand it or imagine it differently. The same goes for the FF games (typically).

I think that this is one of the reasons why we have all gathered here. We each loved the experience and want to share it with another. FFXI was designed in and of itself to have multiple people reading the same book at the same time. Which is cool & fine & whatever, but it just seems different to me from the others.

~Jeordam

[Alpha]

What I'm trying to communicate is that FF is classically a solo venture. We (the player) are alone in our enjoyment of it. Much like reading a book. It is something we do on our own...as it becomes impossible for two people to read the same book at the same time. We read it at different speeds, we understand it or imagine it differently. The same goes for the FF games (typically).

I think that this is one of the reasons why we have all gathered here. We each loved the experience and want to share it with another. FFXI was designed in and of itself to have multiple people reading the same book at the same time. Which is cool & fine & whatever, but it just seems different to me from the others.

I agree with Jeordam on this. FF changes from installment to installment, but the principle behind it does not. FFXI should not have been numerical for this reason, just like FF Crystal Chronicles is not numerical (who has actually played this game?). XI changed platforms momentarily, and while I have little against SE for doing this, it just does not accord with my traditional concept of FF (or just RPGs) as a solo pursuit.

[postalblowfish7]

I just recently played through the Chains of Promathia mission line with a static of friends. Any doubt that FFXI should be a numbered part of the FF series can be completely layed to rest by anyone who gives a damn enough to play it. Seriously, CoP's cutscenes and characters rivaled the FF's series' best and makes the lesser FF games pale in comparison. I laughed, I cried, I enjoyed some of the most intense boss fights I ever have in any final fantasy game.

The best part was me and my friends were the party that overcame all the odds to topple the end boss. I think it's a shame there's a stigma surrounding XI because it's 'online' - FFXII plays almost exactly like XI, only the zones are smaller and your party members are controlled by AI. Not to mention the music's blander, and characters less original.

Now that FFXIV is on the horizon I think there's no question that this is where the FF series was always going to end up: as the forerunner in the RPG arena, no matter what the sub-genre. Denying FFXI as a 'true' FF game now is being like one of those people who said that TV was just a fad, and the automobile a novelty.

The smoking gun, however, is that FFXI was Hironobu Sakaguchi's last 'Final Fantasy' concept, and it was executed by producer Hiromichi Tanaka - the game designer for FFI, FFII, and FFIII. Anyone who actually took the time to play FFXI knows how similar it is to the earliest games in the series, and how in a way purer than the psx fanboy trilogy. So my advice would be to dry your tears and play it, or miss out on one of the finest Final Fantasies I've ever played.