Writers Academy (Previously Demonia)

[Prodigal Madness]

Realism needs to be thrown out. Make it description or something...but this is magic, or whatever the person uses. No where did the tourny say this was to be realistic. And do not, I'm not just complaining... I got 10/10 on that. =/ Especially annoyed with Toph's score though...got docked points off this for staying true to her character...?

Your technique kept me feeling fascinated, I was anticipating the next post but it never came, hence -1 mark, also another mark was lost due to the dark purple's usage. A more neutral colour would've been better owing to the bulk of TFF using the 'Dark' Skin

-1 for not posting? How's that have to do with technique? Also, if anything, the color should be a bonus to my score. I added extra. That's my character(s) color. Almost always do that. Just cause the "bulk"(which how do you know this btw?) use dark skin isn't my problem. =/ Also, there are two people with a score for this rating, but no reason why...

I'm curious as to how Red got a higher score than me... Perhaps you need to go back and read it? He didn't attack once, and got a 4... I got a 2 for doing a basic attack(which isn't supposed to be HIGHLY detailed, but that's cool)... Xeim got a 0...due to no combat having taken place... Which I fail to understand. Loses points cause the opponent never posted? Summons aren't allowed... No where does the BA say making copies of yourself(which in Toph's case is illusion with a spell on it) is illegal. Innovative attack. Got docked points... DH, no offense...modded by cutting the "strings" to the clone(s) when no strings to them were mentioned in the post. Sorry, but adding in effects on what an opponent is doing is moddish. Don't see how DH's attacking giving little room for dodging is bad either. That's smart fighting. =/

Post flow is likewise harsh for getting a 0 for no opponent replying. Also, how can you comment I did bad by not connecting to Red's post when he MODDED in my character when I'd yet to make an intro? If anything, points should have been docked from Red for that. I had made no 2nd reply as he didn't describe the explosion(or anything resulting from that) as I had stated in my spell, nor attacked back. I can understand getting a 0 for not replying when he had.

Again, Use of Envio seemed bad... Xeim, as you say, describes it well...BUT due to their opponent not posting, you only give a 3? Not really fair when beyond their control. Myself, DH, and Toph got fairly low scores with no reason...of which, in my own opinion, we all used/described the zones quite well. =/

Penalties... No offense... Completely stupid. That's what the SCORING is for. The score should reflect the "offense" in the section it goes under... Not deducted from the point score AND get an additional hit after.

Also... Hyz. Why are you complaining about someone complaining? You're doing the same thing you're saying they shouldn't. Toph, at least, has a reason for it. Your post could be considered flame baiting since you're complaining about their post for, basically, no reason. =/

[Xeim]

Wows. This has turned into another minefield... >_< Now, first off, I agree with the arguements at hand. The judging method was flawed. However, let's not all just gang up on Aerif! No judging method was specified so Aeif just came up with something he thought would work (assumption).

Now look at it this way for a second. What is this club full of? Creative people. Some of us already have a way of getting that creativity out in legiable form. Others..are still working on it but it's still there! Now, the problem with creative people (espiecally those who are good at spinning their words)? They like THEIR ideas. And so, when you throw a bunch together....They rip each other apart until they figure out that maybe everything isn't so terrible after all.

So, if we don't figure this out....the club will keep repeating the same fate over and over. Leadership has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Here we have a bit of a flawed judging method. Let's not go ripping each other to pieces over it! My suggestion would be to come up with a sound way to do it. Eliminate pointless catagories, add some in....but as a club....with a reasonable attitude towards the whole thing. And, if you have to sacrifice part of your idea so everything moves along...don't get yourself banned over it. ^^;

Look at the tournament this way- it's our first time writing together. Sure not everyone's participating, but a lot of people are. So, it's a good way for us to get the hang of how we work together. Each "complication" we run into is not some "great-unforseen-wall-that-shall-tear-the-club-apart." It's a...well....how would one put this...good thing. So that we can unify the club a little more. You know?

Now, I know this post will get torn apart for staying relatively calm...but haha....it's merely a suggestion. If you lot want to go at it like wolves be my guest! I'm just here to try and reason!

^_^;

Xeim off to hide in a corner...

--Xeimy--

[Aerif]

In case you haven't all noticed by now, I'm judging by your standards of work, therefore to make slightly more fairer to the underdog. I'm presenting the judging in forms of points to make it easier for myself and to show you where you went wrong, you may not agree with some catergories or with penalties, however I can garauntee that judging without points is the same, the judges think of what's happening, what shouldn't be done and whether they should be penalised.

Writing is an important part of RPB. However so is the battle part, a balance must be acheived. I could always omit the points part but it's the easiest way to show what the judge thought of the posts.

Argument Heated = Yes

Toph, I don't think there's any need to start swearing at a descision you don't like, offer freindly suggestions and they would've been followed. But instead you decided to get angry, as shown in the tone of your writing.

Everybody, just calm down, you wanted results and you got them, they might not be expected but a little tweaking is needed to make a match fair. If the best writer won every time due to another's incompetence (this is just an example) then it wouldn't be fair. My criteria tries to make it fair.

[Hyzenthlay]

Originally posted by Prodigal Madness
Also... Hyz. Why are you complaining about someone complaining? You're doing the same thing you're saying they shouldn't. Toph, at least, has a reason for it. Your post could be considered flame baiting since you're complaining about their post for, basically, no reason. =/

Actually that's pretty much all you are doing. If you wernt you wouldnt have written at all. This whole discussion is about judging and I'm entitled to an oppinion as much as anyone else.

None of you had a problem with Aerif judging before this and she's judged other things. The fact that she gave you low scores is making you angry? Get the hell over it, if I lose then at least I know next time where to improve even if it is a little more... ingenuity.

As I said before all of you are dancing around things like "why have you deducted point for this" and "why did you knock off one for this". The fact is, she didnt consider your post good enough to get full marks, whatever reason that's for. A 9 out of 10 is good enough anyway.

Originally posted by Xeim
Eliminate pointless catagories, add some in....but as a club....with a reasonable attitude towards the whole thing.

Yeah, finally a productive response. As a club we should work out the kinks, I never said Aerif judging was perfect, but maybe she can work on that too? Writing club, judging can be part of that. Aerif judging at some points was a bit too harsh, but it's a judgement non-the-less so stop whining, especially if you won already.

I gave my oppinion on some of the posts before Aerif and I pointed out alot of the things she did, so it's not like you hadn't heard some of it already. Why jump on her when she has a bigger responsibility than any of you? Get over yourselves, you arnt award winning authors or you wouldnt be here. Take the comments in your stride and work on the bad things next time.

Anyway, yay. My judgement is up tonight. It was nice fighting with you darkwolf =]. Thanks.
And, whoever hasnt poste dup their inner Rp profile. Do it soon, =].
Who is the judge of the next tourny rounds, too?

Aimee.

[Storm]

Hello again.

I appologise for being very inactive, when I thought workload would be coming down it sky-rocketed and had assaignments coming out of my ears. And media and multimedia assaignments aren't things that can be rushed or put on last minute like 1000 word essays. I'm not going to say i'll be active straight away just incase theres a second wave, but since it seems things are underway with the tournament I shall stay out of things for the time being and just observe. Thanks for forefeitting me though, Aerif, theres no way I would of been able to do anything with everything else that was going on and its unfair to have my busyness keeping everyone else down.

I guess this is sort of a post to say "don't worry, I halven't keeled over yet!"

[Victoria]

Here's some friendly advice for you.
Ever wondered how the TOA is judged? This is important, so please read. Use this. >_>;

And I'm sorry that I swore. But even though I did, that's still relatively tame compared to how angry I can get. ^^;

You say you did it on our standards of work, but all I really see for the majority (at least in the comments), are things you liked and didn't like about something. =\ Can't really improve someone's writing by only doing things you like.

And it just occurred to me right now. About the world DH and I were fighting in. I wasn't realistic to the world, you said, because I had an MP3 player.

But if you remember, the world itself is in the Avatar world. ...Our characters' existences alone are a paradox to the "realism" of the world. My character operates on the Naruto physics. DH's character is completely original. So, hey, why not just add an MP3 player. >_>; Although it's kind of interesting you bypassed the spaceship. =P

But anyway... there's that.

[Prodigal Madness]

In case you haven't all noticed by now, I'm judging by your standards of work, therefore to make slightly more fairer to the underdog. I'm presenting the judging in forms of points to make it easier for myself and to show you where you went wrong, you may not agree with some catergories or with penalties, however I can garauntee that judging without points is the same, the judges think of what's happening, what shouldn't be done and whether they should be penalised.

Writing is an important part of RPB. However so is the battle part, a balance must be acheived. I could always omit the points part but it's the easiest way to show what the judge thought of the posts.

Everybody, just calm down, you wanted results and you got them, they might not be expected but a little tweaking is needed to make a match fair. If the best writer won every time due to another's incompetence (this is just an example) then it wouldn't be fair. My criteria tries to make it fair.

However, by doing so, you make judging biased. It's *SUPPOSED* to be a set scale that feelings can't get in the way of. The better writer is supposed to win... That's what tournaments are about. Some of us are complaining about the points not due to low scores, but the seeming randomness to it that doesn't show a set scale being used.

[Aerif]

@PM if a set scale was used we'd end up with silly scores, to adjust the scale to the potential of all participants would mean that experts would get 50/50 and new writers would get 0/50 (in comparison). It just wouldn't work.

@Toph 1: The problem with the TOA setup is that I have no idea how Cesar publishes these results, the results need to be public in a way and I haven't found a single piece of published judging. Hence the real problem.

@Toph / spaceship: Er... I had no idea that was a spaceship until a few seconds ago when I went over the thread again. I realised there was something wrong the first time but I just assumed that the 'ship' was just a normal boat. Hm... oops...

As to what you said earlier about mythical/magical themes being presented with modern viewpoints and in a modern time line. It just didn't seem to fit in for some reason, I don't know why, maybe it's because both Kana and Kylista where so polite it seemed almost medeival. I guess it was the speech patterns that did it.

[Victoria]

Perhaps there needs to be separate tournaments. One for "new" writers, and the other for writers like DH, PM, and I. That way it's more "fair". >_>;

And yes, the better writer is supposed to win. And really, I prefer the "hard" way of actually describe what you think of the posts. That way, we actually know what's wrong with what we did, according to your view. Just a single vague comment statement doesn't really help. =\

Although it is my fault, that I only assigned one judge, and not 2-3, as is usually required. =P

Edit: Kana, polite? >_> How is "Damn old man" polite? XD

Edit 2: You want published results? Here. http://thefinalfantasy.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=54280 That's a TOA round that cesar has judged. And note how he just explains his thoughts and such on their writing. No points or anything involved.

[Aerif]

If that's the way you want it judged I can do that. It just looks a little... I don't know what the word I'm looking for is... There's just something about it that I'm not to confident about.

Your last post seemed a bit too sarcastic. But despite the sarcasm it may be a better idea to spread competition out more, more orginisation but things need to have a balance. Like moderation or something.

Since it's easier to keep things consistent I'll judge the final RPB in a manner similar to the others, bearing in mind some of the points you made.

---

And to justifiy the politeness of Kana... Come on, how many young-men say 'DAMN YOU' in great states of anger. That's more polite then I'd expect most people to react!

[Prodigal Madness]

@PM if a set scale was used we'd end up with silly scores, to adjust the scale to the potential of all participants would mean that experts would get 50/50 and new writers would get 0/50 (in comparison). It just wouldn't work.

As to what you said earlier about mythical/magical themes being presented with modern viewpoints and in a modern time line. It just didn't seem to fit in for some reason, I don't know why, maybe it's because both Kana and Kylista where so polite it seemed almost medeival. I guess it was the speech patterns that did it.

So the better writers are penalized for having developed their writing skills? No offense, but just how many tournaments have you been in? I recall none, in over a dozen, that I've been in where the tournaments are done so the "lesser" participants have a shot at beating people that others know are clearly more skilled. That's not the way it works. If you get unlucky enough to be set up against a better writer, you try your best and maybe you'll win. You shouldn't have a shot at winning just because the judge feels you should. Look at Toph and DH, two of the better people, and one gets dropped right off the bat from the first round. No more fair to them, than someone that's not as skilled losing in the first round.

I didn't say anything about modern OR medieval times. I said neither should be penalized as it's not specified tournament. Meaning people with lazers and big time technology could be matched up against a peasant that learned how to use magic.

[Hyzenthlay]

... Judgement is overdue =[.

Anyway. I have no more to say, partially because I really dont understand PM's arguement as he seems to change it, and partially because I feel like circles are being formed. Once again I say though, 'biased' means you take a side that you believe in, you CANT be biased for stating oppinion. That would be called... Whats the word... Oppinion. NOT bias!

"to cause partiality or favoritism in (a person); influence, esp. unfairly: a tearful plea designed to bias the jury." Direct from the dictionary.

Once again, no bias was used.

And why is everybody so fixated on this?
For gods sake, get the results up and the next round going and judge the next round differently =].


Aimee.

[Victoria]

Actually it is part of bias, when the judging criteria is favored for the "underdog", whoever that may be. So by definition, it is partly bias, Aerif practically admitted it with his reasoning.

[Aerif]

Well it is partly biased. I can admit to that, but it's difficult to judge something without being a little bias, it's human nature and the underdog thing wasn't actually implemented, almost everyone was set up fairly. The judging was just slightly harder on those more skilled, though admitadelly it would be difficult to get into the 40's.

PM, you have the argument is about as constant as the changing weather. When I judged your match you sent me positive rep for the judging. Then you argue against the standards. Make up your mind.

Also PM if you where paying attention to other people's posts then you'd realise that I was talking to Toph about the time scale.

Hyz, sorry for not getting the results judged, I really didn't have the time. I'll get them up ASAP

Results

[Hyzenthlay]

It's okay Aerif, they are up now anyway so I'm good and happy. Yeah, I understand what you said about needing a spell check but I dont have word on my laptop, the closest I have is notebook and that's laughable. I'm a terrible speller on here simply because my hands work far to fast for my brain to process and as you can see I constantly change these posts saying things like "changing spelling" and such. In short, I cant spell and I know it.

And the use of enviroment, there wasnt much to say really it was really hard (as I mentioned earlier on in the forum before judging) I tried to include other things such as the log and the crow (which both me and Dark mentioned). Other than those I couldnt see what to write, it was a fairly minimalistic map.

Anyway, thank you for your comments Aerif. Bring on the next round.

Thanks, Aimee.

[Prodigal Madness]

Positive rep because I was partially worried I'd lose due to not posting a second time...

So speaking to Toph about something means I cannot reply to point out the loophole you've made by saying tech is bad, but at the same time, it's modern so magic bending the laws of physics is as well?

Also, how is my argument changing...? The whole thing has basically been, it's biased to a degree that it's unfairly done, and parts of the judging don't make sense.


"For saying in a tournament that the best writer is suppose dto win whilst talking about bias in the same sentence."

And Hyz, before you give bad rep, learn to read. I talked of those in the same post, not the same sentence...and even had I done that, don't see how that's bad. I was saying the current judgments have been done by biased account. Then that the best writer SHOULD win and not be handicapped because of it.

[Hyzenthlay]

And you sent to me "You're complaining...bout someone else complaining... Honestly, c'mon..." when you are, quite franky, doing the exact same in even sending that.

Your arguement changes in the fact that at one point you talk about her deducting a point, as is a judges right. According to Aerif you had already complemented teh judgement. As soon as that is resolved you start on bias, then you speak about bias and say that the better writer should win, implying a bias. So basically, to me, your arguement makes absolutally no sense.

And flaming me by saying I cant read. Tut tut. I wont rise.

I dont want to argue about this anymore. I really am bored with it and it isnt going to change anything.

Anyway, whats happening with the second round? Will DH be judging?
When will we know when we are up next?

Aimee.

[Prodigal Madness]

Again, learn to read. That's not flaming. You seem to be ignoring portions of my posts. Aerif even said I gave good rep for the judgment, not that I complemented it. Which, if you'd read my post, you'd find out why I did.

No... Factually, the writer that is best should win a contest. That's like saying the better team should win in a sports event. How does that NOT make sense? Also, it's not like we saw the judging styles, and that the "worse" writer would be given a bonus in judgment simply for being less skilled...so yeah, I *DID* wait until it was posted before commenting on bias. Jeez, Hyz. Do you ENJOY provoking myself and Toph, or does it just come naturally?


Oh, also, next time I'll make sure to put "stop flaming" instead of explaining why.

[Hyzenthlay]

Okay. Whatever.
I never came in her eto argue with anybody, I dissagreed with the majority.

Well anyway. I thanked Dark, I thanked Aerif. I need to thank PM, I think, for the map.

Can you fill me in now Toph? =]

Thanks, Aimee.

[Victoria]

Fill you in on what, exactly..? You're not being very clear. Unless you mean the Inner RP? or... what? o_O;

Edit: Oh. The tourny. Right, right.

Next round is as follows:

Prodigal Madness vs Hyzenthlay
Toph Bei Fong vs Xeim

The where will be decided in a bit. Although to be sure of the accurate judging, I'm going to have someone else have a go at it. Preferably Spike or Syd.

[Hyzenthlay]

Okie dokie. Thank you Toph. Me and PM eh? Good stuff, I'll have to go all out eh?

Will be nice fighting you PM. Cant wait to see where.

Are spike and syd around enough to give us judging when we need it?
I just, I dont wanna be waiting weeks for a judgement.

When will the arena's be sorted? Though, isnt there only 2 left?

Aimee.

[Red]

how many times will this club have to be re-made until the fighting gets resolved
I blame bad leadership, but I dunno maybe that's just my oppinion.

anyway it appears that no major arguing is going on at the moment, however I think that soon enough more fights will arise. kinda sucks.

[Victoria]

Whoever said anything about remaking this club? Arguing will eventually happen because we're all creative individuals and we all like to see our ideas being used and whatnot. It's not uncommon for arguing to happen. Really, don't let it get to you.

Mistakes happen, leaders aren't all perfect. And it doesn't matter if they're around TFF enough or not. They're on AIM all the time. I can just IM them and they'll come around. Spike usually judges the TOA anyway. And Syd founded the TOA to begin with.

[DragonHeart]

I'd just like to point out on my behalf, it's been a long-standing allowance that in the interest of making a battle more interesting (especially in tournaments), the type of character control I did is allowed as long as it is not said that the opponent is injured by the attack. Toph could have chosen to take an injury that Kylista may not have noticed, but he did not. That was his decision.

And yes, I admit I made one minor spelling error. I noticed it later but I did not want to edit my post because I could then be accused of altering something, as no one set any allowances for mistakes such as the 15-minute rule held to in the official tournaments.

Good luck in the next round Toph.

~DragonHeart~

[Victoria]

Yeah, I was going to talk about that, too, DH, but I forgot all about it. And yeah, I also didn't make clear the editing rule. Hence why I'm getting Spike or Syd to look at it for a second opinion.

I have a feeling if Aerif knew about the allowance of that, you'd have won. And really, Grammar/Spelling shouldn't be a major grading point, even though this is a club to improve your writing.

Edit: Psychosyd says he will have it done by this Tuesday. So I will have the final matches and arenas ready by then as well. =P

[Hyzenthlay]

Are you saying you are having your match re-judged or that you are having another person look at it?
Tuesday, erm. Okay.

Well, this place dies everytime there is no argument going on. Lol, strange.

Aimee.

[psychosyd]

And Syd founded the TOA to begin with.

You do me too much honor... man that was a long time ago ^^

Anyways, I got caught in some things and kind of forgot to get this done, so I'll throw a couple down now as I had a few minutes.

First off, i'm not going to go into SO much detail as maybe would be desired but I will add my 2 cents... you guys make me want to come out of retirement thats for sure.

In the match between Red VS Prodigal Madness I am going to have to agree with the decision made. The reason is I think Red still has some developing to do in his personal style and technique. I felt the overall flow of his posting was a bit rough and there was not as much interest in what I wanted to read.
Prodigal, I would personally recommend not using dark purple text to signify thought or word... it was a bit annoying to highlight because i'm using the TFF Dark skin... but that is more a personal opinion

In the match between DragonHeart and Toph Bei Fong, I found the match harder to judge for sure. I think styles were a lot closer and overall interest was there. That was a big deal for me. RPB is still text based and if the writing is not interesting to read you lose major points for that. I think both writers had some good ideas and solid approaches. I like the clones touch, and I also like DH's response to it. Personally I would overturn the decision and give the win to DragonHeart... again, I don't really want to get MUCH reasoning behind my posts just yet because I don't have time but one of the big ones is Toph's opening post just did not snag me right... that was what did it for me... as there was not a whole lot to work with, and lack of a 3rd post, the opening post just did not quite hit it for me. A different approach or entrance would have been better I believe. Its a shame it ended when it did though, I thought it had potential

Darkwolf and Hyzenthlay

Personally I will just say now there are a lot of good things going on in this battle. Both did some things well. I would also agree with the judgment on this one and say Hyzenthlay did a good job. Part of it was the drama Darkwolf put into his character. I think it was a bit over the top how many times I had to read Darkwolf's character got angrier... I had the idea the first and even second time. The conversation in the start of the battle was a bit silly as well... Hyzenthlay really lost a bit with the whole comrades comment, but I think Darkwolfs response hurt him more as it just continued the idea and seemed to be out of place for his character. I also agree the fireball with sword slashes seemed a bit over the top... Entrance into the actual fighting seemed a bit... odd as well. Again flow issues

So yeah, that's my 2 cents

Oh, and I am pro editing posts as long as its before your opponent posts... again with 4 cents now ^^

-Syd

[Hyzenthlay]

Originally posted by psychosyd:
Personally I will just say now there are a lot of good things going on in this battle. Both did some things well. I would also agree with the judgment on this one and say Hyzenthlay did a good job. Part of it was the drama Darkwolf put into his character. I think it was a bit over the top how many times I had to read Darkwolf's character got angrier... I had the idea the first and even second time. The conversation in the start of the battle was a bit silly as well... Hyzenthlay really lost a bit with the whole comrades comment, but I think Darkwolfs response hurt him more as it just continued the idea and seemed to be out of place for his character. I also agree the fireball with sword slashes seemed a bit over the top... Entrance into the actual fighting seemed a bit... odd as well. Again flow issues

Hmmm, thanks for the comments Syd. I think I get which ones are aimed at both of us, ha ha. Apart from the obviously named ones. Are teh ones in blue to me...? (I changed them to blue in the quote).

As for the conversation, I know exactly what you mean. My character is supposed to be taciturn in the first place so a cosy chat like that shouldnt really have taken place. In all honesty I didnt really paint my character as well in this on as I did in the fights against DH and Slim. I dunno wy I just didnt use about 3/4 of her personality, I'll just have to rectify that and cut out the blabber in the next round.

So uhmmm, what does Syds judgement mean? DH is in and Toph is out or what?

I'm not entirely sure where we go from here. Is it the next round now? I'm eager.

Thanks Syd, Aimee.

[Victoria]

Yeah, as far as the next round goes, I'll put up the threads today. And as far as DH and I go, I'll just let DH advance, because I've been in a blah writing mood lately, so I won't be as good.

You'll know which areas you'll fight in when the threads are up.

Edit: The threads are up.

[Hyzenthlay]

Well, I posted my fisrt post. I'll wait for PM now.
I hope I did your level justice Toph, whilst staying in character obviously. It's a hard stage for somebody who has a phobea of light, =P. She can hardly discribe things lol.

Look forward to your post PM.

Edit: At least for the most part Syd agreed with Aerif, I'd have hated if the whole thing was torn apart. He stuck to alot of Aerifs Judging too, even as far as the purple text. Anyway. Thanks for the map Toph.

I'm sorry you arn't in the tourny.

Thanks, Aimee.