The TFF Council

[Victoria]

Ragna, the TFF Chat should be rather obvious.

It's just a group convo on MSN with fellow TFFers. How can you not seriously know? Besides, you could've asked that in a PM/VM to someone, rather than post spam like that.

And yes, your post is spam. (spam = posts that don't contribute to the topic.)

(You see why Entity wants to limit the numbers? A lot of people creates a lot of chaos and a lot of activity that no one can keep up with!)

Adopt A Newb is CLOSED.

The old system works. We have a list of volunteers. Anyone else who wishes to volunteer, can just say so, and you'll be added to the list. The list is:

Adopters
Azuteor
Mistress Sheena
dragoon
Flaming Ragnarok
Oceaneyes (Maybe)
Unknown Entity

So, either Fate or Myself will create the Adopt-A-Newblet thread in Member Business for Fuzz to link to.


PS: The MSN thread will not be deleted. Archived at most. What's the rush in getting rid of it?

[RagnaToad]

I hope this post is not considered spam, because it is definitely related to this club.

I'm leaving this club. I won't go into detail 'cause it would most likely be seen as trolling or whatever. Apparently, asking a question about one of the topics discussed is reason enough to be warned for spamming. I hope some of the points I made were actually appreciated by some.

peace and good luck making TFF a better place,

Rags

EDIT: The "good luck" comment was not meant to sound ironic.

[Treize]

I can also adopt someone if you need more people. Also what is the next topic that we are going to discuss? The Tier System or Member Recognition?

I came up with an idea for a literature competition. I figured we have one for art, so why not one for people's writting skills? I know it sounds a little like TOA, but this could be more like... an exam question. Like... Decribe a nightmare/fairy/happy world. I always love the nightmare questions. ^^

I think that could be kind of cool, having a writing prompt and then having people write about it. We could also maybe have some sort of free writing and people could write some sort of story and get judged on it. How would we judge these then? Would we have some sort of panel like the Banner Competitions did?

Also I think it would be kind of cool to have some sort of drawing competition. There seems to be several people here who can draw well and I think that this could work.

As for the Tier System, I'm not really sure how that would work. Maybe someone could explain what they are thinking about this in a little more detail. Right now, I'm not sure we would really need something like this. I'm just fine with having the staff and then this club to discuss problems with the forum.

It's sad to see you leaving RagnaToad.

[RamesesII]

Mistress i was talking about a specified time limit on each topic no huffle and cafuffle i mean a direct time limit so we can say right no more opinions etc etc i apologise in advance if you did mention this previously and i missed it.

So on to the next topic Tier system, i well obviously i am thinking of the creator as the first tier along with who ever else she choose ie Fate, Mistress and anyone else i missed and of course staff and those that have been here the longest because of course they have greater knowledge and have the ower to change etc and then that it, but maybe as we start to approach the different ideas such as activities then we could start to designate people to these eg Two people to activities two to compitions a staff member to watch over the adopt a newblet etc

[Meier Link]

Sorry to derail from what Dragoon was saying, but please add me to the list of Adoptors; if that is deemed I am worthy enough. I will leave it at that seeing I am fairly drunk right now and will probably not make much sence otherwise.

[Fate]

Added. And so is Treize.

Adopters
Azuteor
Mistress Sheena
dragoon
Flaming Ragnarok
OceanEyes28 (Maybe)
Unknown Entity
Treize
Meier Link

So, Dragoon, are you thinking of assigning different people here to take care of the different events? That's actually a pretty great idea. It lets us do various activities at once, without them getting too out of control. Of course, we need about two or three people per event so back it up.

[Lavos]

that could work, as long as the people working on their project(s) could sometimes, not constantly, check up with leaders/ other members to determine if these idea's would work, or even if they are possible. That way, we are not totally divided and a group doesn't "solve" a problem that other users majorly disagree on. Something else, If we are divided, we should hold something like the Senate. Because there is an almost zero chance of everyone agreeing to a topic, we hold a vote of all the members. If a certain number, let's say a third+, disagree, we find something else. That way there is (hopefully) no problems. The idea would win fair and square. If It is very close, then we could pull a few random members of TFF and see who likes what. Only like 4 or 5, and only to see what they like, so that we don't get spammed with 5000 posts saying "Does this mean I am in the Council?!?!".

[Furore]

I hope this post is not considered spam, because it is definitely related to this club.

I'm leaving this club. I won't go into detail 'cause it would most likely be seen as trolling or whatever. Apparently, asking a question about one of the topics discussed is reason enough to be warned for spamming. I hope some of the points I made were actually appreciated by some.

peace and good luck making TFF a better place,

Rags

EDIT: The "good luck" comment was not meant to sound ironic.

If you want to help Rags, don't leave.
So what if someone said you were spamming for speaking your thoughts?
Just means some lameass doesn't like your views, and as far as I'm concerned I'm not trolling now as I don't know who it was who warned you for spamming.

Censorship is lame.

WHICH brings me to make a suggestion here. I know it's been shot down before, but why not allow things that are a bit more mature? Just use a disclaimer or something. Every 12 year old kid I know is smart enough to get through the 'security' on porn sites and the like so it's not like any real kids will get exposed to anything they couldn't otherwise see or wouldn't have seen.

Also the favouring of some members is lame. Even if Ragna's post was a one liner, if it was a relevant question it should be fine. I've seen one liners from some regulars which weren't constructive at all and in some cases were downright patronising towards other members.
/end rant

Also, why not a forum mascot to promote forum pride? I'm thinking a personalised moogle, chocobo, cactuar or something. Something no other FF forum will have...

[Victoria]

It was me, and it wasn't because he expressed his views or his opinion or something, so don't get the wrong idea. Don't jump to conclusions to have an excuse to bitch me out.

He asked a question that didn't pertain to the topic of the club.

The way I see it is, if it's something you can VM/PM someone about, why post it?

All his post said was this: "What's TFF Chat? Never heard of it, and I guess you can delete the MSN thread too."

What, pray tell, can we get out of a post like this? Is it a suggestion or an idea that we can discuss? No. It's just a question with a simple response, which I answered. You are forgetting that I answered his question.

And it's just 5 points, not a 34 point official warning. Crying over spilled milk, as I like to call it.

So, bottom line is this:

Ragna's post wasn't a relevant question. Period. End of.

As Nathan had just said; If you want to continue to help, don't leave. Even I don't want you to leave. I mean, if you really want me to, I can get rid of that warning. (even though it's just 5 points.)


Edit: There, I got rid of it. Just be careful of what you post. You don't have to post about every little thing. Some things can be VM/PM'd to people.

[Fate]

Rags, I think that you're really contributing to this club. Aside from that seemingly "spammy" post, you've discussed great, relevant ideas. So, don't leave. You should come back.

[Meier Link]

As for the Tier System, I'm not really sure how that would work. Maybe someone could explain what they are thinking about this in a little more detail. Right now, I'm not sure we would really need something like this. I'm just fine with having the staff and then this club to discuss problems with the forum.

Basicly we are talking demorcracy here, 3 braches so to speak.

I will turn to Us goverment for my example.

Presidents and Cabinent
Congress
House of represenatives

Basicly what I recommended would look like this if you use the above as reference.

Kilala and her chosen few
Older members and respected members
Newer members and ones that are less active.

Hope that clears things up on the 3 tier system that I was talking about.


Silver there are riskey topics and all are labled accordingly. Such as the one over masturbation and the such. [sarcasm] i think the age limit for this forum it 13 so 12 is out of your reach [/sarcasm].

I missed Ragnas post and it was edited before I could read it, so I will not touch this. But really argueing with a mod (who knows the forum rules) is kind of pointless. Still I don't want to see Ragna go, you have some pretty good ideas and could still be very usefull to this thread.

Forum mascot, yay! How about something like a pimp tonebarry?

by fate:
Rags, I think that you're really contributing to this club. Aside from that seemingly spammy post, you've discussed great, relevant ideas. So, don't leave. You should come back.

In the same instance this to could be considered spam, and it is by a club leader. Is this what is going to be used as an example for other members to follow suit? It could also easily be taken to VM / PM.

[Furore]

Forum mascot, yay! How about something like a pimp tonebarry?

THIS ****ER GETS IT!

I was thinking a grunge moogle, but it wouldn't have mass appeal.
I suck at the idea specifics I guess.
Anyways, if someone can come up with a universally liked mascot all we'd need is a decent artist.

[IceColdPillow]

Hm, maybe we should all just stop arguing over little things, and make some progress so we could actually start doing stuff soon. [Sorry for my lack of participation lately, i work alot :/]


Well, the tier system is organized but it has the potential to turn sour, but i'm fine being in the lowly part of the club,every voice counts.
Anyhow, I like the Tonberry idea for our mascot, BUT the ff12 moogles are kinda cute so maybe have a vote at a later time once this councils established.

[Meier Link]

Well, the tier system is organized but it has the potential to turn sour, but i'm fine being in the lowly part of the club,every voice counts.

Quoted for truth, for a 3 tier system to actually work this would have to be how it is. Same as the power fo checks and balances. Maybe I am getting to far into this and making it really complicated. But really the Tier system would only come into affect if we could actually reach a conclusion to vote on.

[Victoria]

Here's an idea:

1. For ease of use, what would you all say to me asking Fuzz to bring back the TFF Chat that the website used to have. (Maybe Ragna was asking about this, rather than MSN group convos, and if he was, I apologize.)

2. Forum Mascot - Hmm... Should maybe have Azuteor draw one out. Like a girl wearing a moogle or tonberry outfit!

3. Tier System - Meier's example is really well done. I remember Laura telling me about it before, and I really liked the sound of it. When Laura gets back, let's see if we can implement it.

Edit: Damnit, stop posting while I'm typing!

Current Topic: Tier System; Sub Topic: TFF Chat Question

[IceColdPillow]

1. Well, I wasnt around when the TFF chat thing was running, but I like that idea better than the whole big MSN mess. we've spent days here mashing ideas on what to do, so opening up TFF chat would make life easier.

3. As long as everyone is heard equally [which has been the case thus far], then the tier system will work. Democracy wins! Go America! xD

[Victoria]

Okay.

TFF Chat: 1 For. (2 if you count me.)

Edit: Just thought of another idea, came from Meier.

4. User Group - When Kilala gets back, suggests a user group be made to make individual threads to keep the ideas nice and tidy.

[RagnaToad]

Sorry for my intrusion, but I won't post anymore after this.

The TFF Chat is an issue again?

I thought the whole reason for me being a spammer was because it was all done. Now it turns out that you guys are discussing exactly what I was asking UE about?

I'm lost.

That said,

good luck.

[IceColdPillow]

BUT, if you look at Sheenas post she apoligized and would remove your warning, plus all the people want you back Ragna! The past is the past, the future is now, so just move on and your ideas are appreciated
I was just late to the debate and kinda brought it up more.

[Victoria]

EDIT: I VM'd Ragna about it, to not detract from the club and bring drama in. Sorry about that. I lost my cool.
----------------------------------------------
Adopters
Azuteor
Mistress Sheena
dragoon
Flaming Ragnarok
OceanEyes28 (Maybe)
Unknown Entity
Treize
Meier Link
Fishie (He IM'd me and wanted to volunteer.)

Make no mistake, the volunteers don't have to be people within the council. If anyone is interested, please PM or VM or IM me and I'll add you to the list.
I also want to make the adoption thread, because I want to make something special for it (...If images are allowed in posts in that forum, anyhow..)

[RagnaToad]

Kilala is going to have some intriguing reading to do when she gets back.

Anyway:

TFF Chat: I liked the old system, but I don't see why Fuzz would simply get it back. There must've been a reason why he removed it. I don't think it takes that much bandwidth from the forums, but I'm not an expert in any way. If he would just get it back, that would be awesome. I don't think it'd cost him anything, in terms of actual money.

Tier System: This kind of frightens me but I force myself to see the importance of such a system in this club. I'm not trying to gain any "power" by any means, but I think the older members should have a heavier vote, or a final say in most of the issues discussed here. It's great that new members have joined this club. It gives us perspective on what the average member wants. But I think older members have their experience working for them. And by older, I only mean forum age. Wouldn't really matter to me if I had the same "rank" as, say, IceColdPillow though.

How's that for spam?

[Furore]

As far as Tiers go I don't think join date should determine status as some members who joined years ago simply aren't too active and may have lost their touch.

I'd propose something a little harder like gauging a user's activity and basing a position on that BUT at the same time offering a higher tier rather than forcing it as some may not desire more power (especially as it usually means more responsibility). I for instance dislike responsibility quite a good deal.

Maybe look at a person's average posts per day and then at the quality of the posts as you wouldn't want a heavy spammer having a bigger say.

[Victoria]

Ragna, that's exactly what the Tier System is...

Older members and the club creators get the most say in the final decision making. I don't know what you thought it was about before, but...what you suggested, is pretty much what it is, lol. ^_^;

And the reason the TFF chat is gone, is because of the forum update. It was just lost in the transition, is all. He can have it back pretty easily.

Edit: Nathan, if the person isn't active, then that person won't have much say. The third tier includes newer members and inactive members, so your point is rather moot. Good suggestion though, so I'll add it to the...rack?

[Furore]

Edit: Nathan, if the person isn't active, then that person won't have much say. The third tier includes newer members and inactive members, so your point is rather moot.

If a model was proposed and I missed it, I apologise, but how does one say whether someone is considered inactive or not? Just to get my understanding up to date.

I just think that current regular posters should be of the highest tier regardless of their join date. Members such as Meier for example seem to be regular good posters yet have only been members for a year or two.

[RagnaToad]

Good point you're making, Silver. I understand the scepticism against basing it on Join Date. I am the first to admit that Join Date means jack, and obviously, Post Count is worthless.

Take me for instance, I joined in 2006, but was inactive for almost a year. That kind of nullifies the Join Date argument.

I have a rather low post count, but I make sure everything I post is worth reading. That makes my posts more valuable.

It's all really subjective. What we should do to make the system right, is do a whole forum background check on everyone.

Or simply dig into everyone's brain and see if their intentions are true.

[Victoria]

Kilala made the model along with Meier. I don't really know what consists of inactive members, you'd have to ask them.

And yes, join date doesn't really seem to be much of a factor, but Meier would be in the 2nd tier, believe it or not. I think if you're here for over a year, you'd be in the 2nd tier, or 3rd if Kilala chose another co-leader. (as Fate said, we need 3, not 2.)

But anyway...other than what the model is, I don't have the information on what consists of an inactive member.

[RagnaToad]

I think I've heard people bring up Laura's absence a few times already, so I'm thinking nothing will actually be done until she gets back.

About the TFF Chat thing (still): Do you need a "go" from the TFF Council to contact Fuzz about it, Sheena? I mean I know you don't, I'm just saying that it wouldn't mess with whatever decision we will eventually make if Fuzz put it back.

About the ranks: How exactly will the difference in rank have an effect on the voting/deciding, if we are even opting for a voting system.

About the mascotte: I would love to see a Moogle style pin-up. No joke. Dead serious. Can't wait.

EDIT: Just realised Sheena actually has more Warning than I do.

[Victoria]

It's not really a voting system, it's more if we can't make a final decision about something.
Also, I suppose I could ask Fuzz about it when I see him on next time. And if people start using the TFF Chat, then that's a cool bonus. =D

[Lavos]

Regarding the whole tier system, Average posts per day also can't be a 100% clue in on who is active or not. Somedays there is just no threads I am interested or have an opinion in posting, but I still surf around and read other posts. I spend on average a good 4+ hours per day on TFF, but my average post per day is .47. My post count is also extreamly low, but the most I have ever been off TFF is a month, and that was WAY back when I first joined. If the site can determine when you were last on TFF, can it also determine how long you have been on total? Just add up the difference of all the "You last logged in at ______". A perfect example would be me and Fate. I joined TFF a few days before Fate. Yes, I was inactive for a month, but then I was on TFF for hours each day (total mind you). Now look at Fates 1200+ posts and my measly 160+. Yes, there is still room for error (spending the whole time playing games, leaving the site open to get a sandwich) but I think it is more reliable than posts per day.

[RagnaToad]

Regarding the whole tier system, Average posts per day also can't be a 100% clue in on who is active or not. Somedays there is just no threads I am interested or have an opinion in posting, but I still surf around and read other posts. I spend on average a good 4+ hours per day on TFF, but my average post per day is .47. My post count is also extreamly low, but the most I have ever been off TFF is a month, and that was WAY back when I first joined. If the site can determine when you were last on TFF, can it also determine how long you have been on total? Just add up the difference of all the "You last logged in at ______". A perfect example would be me and Fate. I joined TFF a few days before Fate. Yes, I was inactive for a month, but then I was on TFF for hours each day (total mind you). Now look at Fates 1200+ posts and my measly 160+. Yes, there is still room for error (spending the whole time playing games, leaving the site open to get a sandwich) but I think it is more reliable than posts per day.

And in your opinion, the time someone has been "online" is what should determine in what tier he is? What if someone is online for 30 minutes a week? Cause that would be enough to post in several threads that are interesting.

I actually think a combination of Join Date and activity in the last month is better than what you're suggesting. I just don't see how someone's time spent on the forum alone can be a way to determine that person's contribution to the forums.

I say a combination of Activity in this thread, Activity in TFF in general this month, and Join Date, since most people don't care for Post Count anyway.