Raising Children!

[RamesesII]

The best way i can think of to start this thread is to tell you the reason behind it.

As some of you may know and for those that don't i am particularly OCD and am very organized, i like everything neat and tidy and things put back after being used or to tidy up after making a mess just ask my wife who is exactly the opposite,and i also like to have my set routine every morning and night. Don't get me wrong this can be a good thing and a bad thing

How does this relate to raising children you ask, well i believe that my habits affect they way i raise my children in fact i know they affect the way i raise my children, yes teaching kids to pick up after themselves and clean up etc is vital and i believe it also teaches discipline and self control so it is good to teach kids these things not to teach them to be OCD necessarily but being neat and tidy,BUT......this is where my habits come in because i am so OCD i feel that i am depriving my children of their childhood and them having fun by making them pack their toys up when i know they are having fun or stopping them playing in dirt when it is part of their growing up hell i am being a hypocritical parent because i used to play in the dirt and run a muck and my parents loved it but they also taught me to pack up after myself and clean up after myself.

This is really personal to me because i don't want my kids to grow up too quick and i feel by letting my OCD traits govern my parenting of them it will make them grow up to fast and become drones like me i don't want that and it sometimes brings me close to tears when i know all they want to do is have fun and i stop them by telling them not to spread dirt every where or dig holes in the garden, i want them to be able to enjoy life and have fun and i want them to know its ok to have fun but in the same token not to be slobs so to speak. I don't ruin their fun all the time, during the day i let them have as much fun as possible and i want to promote their imagination, and i never force them to stop unless it is dangerous or naughty of course, but in the case of night time i believe it is settle down time and like to have the house clean and tidy.

Now don't get me wrong i don't force them to be tidy but at the end of a day i like the house to be tidy so i ask them to clean up and only ask them to take one book at a time etc. I feel bad and sometimes i feel like a bad parent. That's part of growing up and its part of childhood to be able to get dirty and throw your toys everywhere and i am stopping that with my bad habits.

So my first question is 'Do you believe that our bad habits or good habits run through our parenting to our children and deprive them of something or over stimulate them, and where do we or where should we stop and draw the line on parenting with our personalities and or traits.

My second question is Does our upbringing affect the way we bring our own children up, fro example i grew up with a big imagination and my parents let me have fun but they also taught me discipline and enough is enough sort of thing as well as chivalry etc, but my OCD side has overpowered my imagination and creativity and ability to be free which affects my children.

I hope members like Meier and Cheesevixen and ladysilver or anyone else with children can clarify and also contribute to this thread.
On a side note i do realise that i over use the term OCD and obscure its context as an actual disorder but i am using it in a general context.

[Meier Link]

Ok to start off I really want to point out the obvious, a parents job is not just to keep a watchful eye over children; it is to care for them, nurture them, teach them, love them, discipline them and be an example for your child of not only on what to do but what not to do. This is the most simplistic way that I can think of how to break down what being a parent really is and I want anyone that reads this thread to keep this in mind as you make your way through it.

I am going to get this out of the way; one thing that really irks me is when someone that is not a parent / legal guardian tries to tell someone how to raise their child. Until you have a child of your own you experiences are null and void. I am sure as every other parent here will testify being a parent isn’t what we thought it was going to be at all. Good thing is human nature takes control and can help guide you through the changes.

Now to be more on topic. Dragoon, I think your “OCD” is needed for children, it not only teaches them discipline and respect but it also gives them a good sense of proper hygiene. There is nothing wrong with making your child pick up after their selves and honestly the younger you start teaching them how to do so the easier it will make on you further down the line. Personally any time my son gets what I deem to be too many toys out I will make him put a few back, this also helps to teach moderation.

We have period through out the day where we stop what we are doing and clean up, yes I am a big kid and like to play with my sons toys too. But I find that he is willing to help pick up (most of the time) and actually finds enjoyment in doing so.

We have recently started working on him with “Which toys go where” this is something we decided to do in hopes that it will help to develop organizational skill and memorization. It truly is amazing at how fast their little minds soak up tidbits of knowledge like that.

I don’t see why you think you are ruining your kids’ lives, I figure this is just a figure of speech so to say, but it is harsh, almost way too harsh. You should be a little more laxed on yourself; from the examples you provided they seem very common amongst parents. I don’t like my son getting dirty even though it happens more often then not because I know I am going to be the one to clean him up and also try to mend what ever he used to get dirty in the first place. I honestly can not think of any of my fellow friends that are parents that like for their kids to go play in the mud or what not, but kids will be kids and they will do what they do, you stepping in helps to enforce hygiene and obedience.

As for your first question I think this one is kind of a given, yes I do believe that a parents good and bad habits can and will reflect through their parenting, just not all the time. For instance I smoke cigarettes, almost every one knows this, and my son sees this and often wants to imitate me. Given I won’t let him with in a 10 ft radius of a cigarette it still doesn’t reflect well that I am saying it is bad but physically showing him that “it is ok be cause daddy does it.” I know that is not entirely what you where referring to but it is a good example to prove a point. On the other hand I am courteous to my elders, and take actually take the time to be friendly to them and to say hi, my son has adapted this and now anytime he sees some one that is “older then daddy” he makes sure to at least wave if they are looking at him. Children are always watching their parents and learning from them, this applies not only to your teaching habits but also your body language, speech, tones, emotions, reactions, ect ect. Honestly Dragoon I think you have found a good way to parent a child, and you should not second guess yourself, even though I always seem to do so when it comes to raising my child. It is basic human nature to do so.

For the second question, yes I feel the way that a parent was brought up can directly reflect on their parenting skills, but common sense comes into play also. I have taken everything that my parents use to raise me and modified it to the extreme. I took the good and the bad and use it on a daily basis when dealing with my son. I still call my mother and father for advice when things get to carried away. Obviously times have changed over the 27 years that I have been on this planet but the same basic principles still exist. So by modifying what my parents taught me to be current with today society I feel that I am doing a damn good job at what I am attempting to provide. And yes I said attempting, for those that are parents you know what I am talking about. For those that are not but will be one day, you will figure it out; and for those that will never be a parent, don't quote on this trying to make a sny remark you will just look like an ass that has no clue what you are talking about.

On a different note I want to throw this in, the term “Spare the rod, spoil the child” is shit. With out forms of discipline this world would be a lot more chaotic then it already is. This is obvious seeing the state the world is in right now. Yes different offences require different types of punishment, but seriously some times force (in light doses) can be required.

I have a 4 strike system set up with my son, the first is the obvious one “stop doing what you are doing”, the second is scolding, third being “time out” and the forth is the almighty “diaper pop”. I have managed to perfect the art of the “diaper pop”, for those that don’t know this is a variation of spanking that requires a swift and well placed cupped palm on a buttock. With little force the sound of the hand striking the diaper makes a loud pop, and usually the sound alone is enough to frighten a small child and make them think they have just got the beating of a life time. On the down side if done in public it can also come across that you used force in the swat. But as of now my son has learned for the most part that he doesn’t like the 4th option and will generally stop before getting past a time out. There are still some instances thought that require certain steps to be skipped and he has not learned all of those yet, like for instance temper tantrums can easily bypass steps one AND two if they are sever enough.

I wanted to through the previous two paragraphs out there to add to the thread, and see what forms of discipline other parents or will be parents have to offer. I will come back and add more as some more posts build up.

[Rocky]

Before I begin my reply, I know that even though I do not have any children of my own (praise the Lord that some girl wasn't dumb enough to get knocked up by me of all people), but I have been a child care provider for almost a year now, so I believe I do have some valuable insight and experience on working with kids.

Dragoon, I don't think that what you're doing is wrong by saying that you want things to not get messy, I completely understand that. While at work, I am the same way; I don't want children to go home all dirty to their parents and at the same time I don't want to go back to work after dropping off my client/having client get picked up just to clean up after a child. Obviously, I do what I can to keep a child clean, but if a client is having a blast, playing with others in a positive manner, or just generally having a good day and is getting a bit dirty, I'm not gonna put the kibosh to their fun, lol. But in the same token, I make sure that the kids that I work with are doing what their supposed to be doing if their goal is to stay clean or whatnot. A client that I work with several times a week, his goal is to pick up after himself. Granted, to many people this seems like an easy goal, but the child is an 8 year old happy go lucky kid that happens to have autism and ADHD, so obviously some conflicts can occur, but I try my best to stay consistant as possible.

One such example of this is when I worked with my regular client that I discussed earlier. The first thing we normally do when he gets off the bus is we go to the classroom in the center and hang up our coats and backpacks. When I first started working with my client, he would become very upset to the point of crying whenever we put our things away, and it took him dozens of prompts just to get him to finally hang his stuff up. He would scream, cry, curse (like a sailor I might add), and throw himself on the floor, but I held my ground and stood infront of the door to the classroom until he would do what he was told. Nowadays, he has gotten a lot better in that aspect, and requires few prompts to hang up his stuff. In fact I worked with him earlier today and I didn't even have to prompt him once; the two of us just talked about how school went while we walked down the hall and he hung up his stuff by himself, then we went to the gym to play.

On the topic of discipline, yes, it is necessary at times, but from my experience I have noticed that it is all about how you administer the discipline instead of what you decide to do. One of my trademark moves I use is called the "laser beam stare", where I get the client's attention by calling out their name, and once they see me, I bow my a head a tiny bit and give them a stern look of disapproval. Usually for most of my clients, this is a big enough warning to them to stop being naughty. If the shenanigans continue, then I will drop what I'm doing (sometimes I'll drop my clipboard a little harder then normal just to get their attention) and slowly walk towards them. Not only do I have their attention, the slow walk gives time for the clients to de-escalate themselves and the situation at hand. If the situation continues, I will ask the client what they are doing and if they want to stay where they are or try another activity. If they want to stay in the room, then I tell them they need to behave otherwise we're going to do something else. This gets them to settle down and an incentive to continue their activity while being good. Usually I will try to stay away from using force, but there have been times when a client has attempted to hurt property and other clients, so I had no other choice but to restrain a client physically. It's never a good feeling to do so and I feel like I was a terrible staff member afterwards, but it was the only way to keep the client from injuring his self and others. Also, the whole discipline thing thing is very frustrating to me in regards to other staff members as well. Although compared to other staff, I am above average in being stern, but I've had clients that don't know how to cooperate any other way, so it was out of necessity moreso than anything, so occasionally I will have another staff member making a comment about me being "mean". I'm like, "are you serious?" Even though everyone goes through training before working at my job, you can always seperate the "good" workers over the "other" ones, simply through their interactions with other clients and through what kind of schedule of clients they have during the week. When I have a staff that tells me that I am mean, I simply scoff it off, because they have never had to deal with clients that can escalate to situations of violence and resistance like the flip of a switch. I may sound mean, but I do it to protect my client, like out of love, not because I want to.

But back to the first question, do qualities show up in children through their parents? Oh yeah, both good and bad. You can always tell which kids have had a good upbring vs kids that have not. It's very easy to pick out a kid who has always gotten their way, and you can always tell what kind of television that a child is watching just by listening onto their conversation while playing. And not only do qualities show up from parents, they can also show up from their brothers and sisters as well. I have a client that has 8 brothers and sisters. Even under normal circumstances, he is a handful at home because it is a struggle for him to get one on one attention for him and his parents, but add in the fact that he has been accustomed to his household where "the loudest voice is heard" and the fact that he has mild M.R., he will try to get the attention of his parents through screaming, cursing, and kicking others. Now, whenever I work with him, I pick him up from his house and notice these tendancies, and as soon as we drive up to the center, his behavioral problems are completely eliminated; he is getting the attention that he needs, and he is acting in a positive manner. So yeah, that shows up as well.

As for the second question, I can't really answer that one because I have no children as of yet, but due to be being brought up to be polite and share with others, I try to instill that on other clients that I work with if I feel they are having troubles in that department. If a client asks me of something, I will usually give them a look or something, like I want them to say "please" and they most frequently pick up on that. Also, I try to have clients play with others in a group setting, because I feel that the children can learn from each other (yes this can be both good and bad lol) and it's always a great thing to share the imagination with someone.

[Storm]

I'm not a parent and don't plan to be for a very long time, however I hope that my views can benefit you.

So my first question is 'Do you believe that our bad habits or good habits run through our parenting to our children and deprive them of something or over stimulate them, and where do we or where should we stop and draw the line on parenting with our personalities and or traits.

Yes, children definatly pick up on habits, whether they are personality habits or lifestyle. Children seem more impressionable at a young age, however with the right guidance and understanding they will develop their own views on things. One thing that Meier mentioned was smoking. There is scientific evidence to suggest that a child is more likely to drink and smoke if their parents do. This isn't 100% fact though, as my family all smoke, whereas i've never smoked one. I also drink only on some social occasions. As for your OCD habits, I believe that they are probably a good thing. My mum was a bit lax with me being a messy child, and i've come to realise that now that i'm independant. If I was brought up with more of a stricter cleaning schedule, I probably would have adapted easier (that said I am not a slob at all, I just leave the odd but of clutter and am only truely messy when i'm really stressed). Theres no definitive guide to parenting, as children are so diverse in personality that one rule may apply to one but may not apply to another. My mum says she never hit me as a child as I was never naughty enough to deserve it. One of my friends on the other hand is glad that her parents hit her and brought her up tough as she was a complete nightmare (and one of the reasons why she doesn't want kids of her own)!

If you are truely worried about your OCD affecting your child, try to train yourself out of reacting too much if it is something minescule. It's probably hard for me to say, since I don't have OCD, however one of my friends has a cleanliness OCD, and his fiancee (another friend of mine) has a stashing OCD (she won't throw out bottles and leaves about an inch of whatever it is in the bottom). If they can work through their differences i'm sure you can find a way to work your own situation out.

My second question is Does our upbringing affect the way we bring our own children up, fro example i grew up with a big imagination and my parents let me have fun but they also taught me discipline and enough is enough sort of thing as well as chivalry etc, but my OCD side has overpowered my imagination and creativity and ability to be free which affects my children.

I'm not sure on this to be honest, as some people would argue yes and others would argue no. I was brought up only by my mum until the age of 11, and she brought me up with a lot of creativity and freedom. She used to play games with me, influence me to have my own opinions on things, and we've always had a friendship as well as a parent-child relationship. I know that her childhood wasn't quite as sweet as mine as her parents were a lot tougher on her, and from what i've heard her younger brothers were spoilt, and she ended up more rebellious. I think its something which depends on the individual.

You say that your parents brought you up with kindness, and with the discepline needed to teach you wrong from right. Although I don't know personally, I believe you bring yours up in a similar way. The fact that you are wondering whether your OCD has a negetive effect on them or not shows that you care about them, which I believe is the most important thing for a parent to feel. Theres too many kids in the world today who don't have that guidance or the care, and unfortunatly its turning society upside down.

[winterborn86]

I think it's ok for kids to be messy cos it's fun for them, but there still needs to be boundries, for example I let Maria pull any toy she wants during the day, but I will always make her tidy up with me, I let her jump in muddy puddles but only if she is wearing her wellies, I let her play with paint and playdoughs as long as she doesn't throw stuff around and stays on the messy mat whilst playing.

Kids need to have fun but still need to be shown responsibility for clearing up their own mess and needs to learn that there are rules.

With digging in the garden, you could give your kids their own spot, so that they can do what they want in it, aslong as it's not throwing mud and stones around cos that to me would come under naughty, you might see differently tho. That is what I'm planning to do for Maria when I get the garden sorted this year, that way the kids will have their own little fun spot to dig holes in, they may even want to plant flowers in their own little bit, it will be fun for them and you wont have to worry about the rest of the garden dug up.

[RamesesII]

N

ow to be more on topic. Dragoon, I think your “OCD” is needed for children, it not only teaches them discipline and respect but it also gives them a good sense of proper hygiene. There is nothing wrong with making your child pick up after their selves and honestly the younger you start teaching them how to do so the easier it will make on you further down the line. Personally any time my son gets what I deem to be too many toys out I will make him put a few back, this also helps to teach moderation.

I did not think of it like that Meier but now that you mention it it does teach them moderation. I try and teach them to pull one book out at a time read it put i back and then read another.

We have period through out the day where we stop what we are doing and clean up, yes I am a big kid and like to play with my sons toys too. But I find that he is willing to help pick up (most of the time) and actually finds enjoyment in doing so.

We don't have a period during the day as such but mainly at night, yes we have taught our children to pick up their toys (well the eldest two) and i usually help them but the difficult part is keeping their attention on the task at hand quite often they get distracted which is reasonable but with three children, while you are picking up toys with one of them the youngest starts to pull them out again and/or the the other starts to misbehave influencing the good one therefore the whole exercise goes out the window and i end up doing it myself. Although it may seem like i am whinging my point is that it doesn't matter if you have one or seven children it is the principle of trying to get them focused and to do as they are told until the task is finished.

We have recently started working on him with “Which toys go where” this is something we decided to do in hopes that it will help to develop organizational skill and memorization. It truly is amazing at how fast their little minds soak up tidbits of knowledge like that.

We don't really have a specific place for each toy they all go into one of two toy boxes, which we try to teach them that toys from the toy box in their room stay in their room and toys from the lounge room stay in the lounge room.
It is truly amazing how quickly they learn and how good their memory is.

I don’t see why you think you are ruining your kids’ lives, I figure this is just a figure of speech so to say, but it is harsh, almost way too harsh. You should be a little more laxed on yourself; from the examples you provided they seem very common amongst parents. I don’t like my son getting dirty even though it happens more often then not because I know I am going to be the one to clean him up and also try to mend what ever he used to get dirty in the first place. I honestly can not think of any of my fellow friends that are parents that like for their kids to go play in the mud or what not, but kids will be kids and they will do what they do, you stepping in helps to enforce hygiene and obedience.

I just believe that if i am to obsessive with them cleaning themselves or staying out of the dirt that they will grow up to be these people that are OCD and have to wash their hands all the time or are afraid of germs.
I don't mind them having fun in the dirt or splashing in water but when it gets to overboard then i step in and stop them from getting to dirty although i know they are just having fun and they can always get cleaned up but i am still putting a stop to their fun.

As for your first question I think this one is kind of a given, yes I do believe that a parents good and bad habits can and will reflect through their parenting, just not all the time. For instance I smoke cigarettes, almost every one knows this, and my son sees this and often wants to imitate me. Given I won’t let him with in a 10 ft radius of a cigarette it still doesn’t reflect well that I am saying it is bad but physically showing him that “it is ok be cause daddy does it.” I know that is not entirely what you where referring to but it is a good example to prove a point. On the other hand I am courteous to my elders, and take actually take the time to be friendly to them and to say hi, my son has adapted this and now anytime he sees some one that is “older then daddy” he makes sure to at least wave if they are looking at him. Children are always watching their parents and learning from them, this applies not only to your teaching habits but also your body language, speech, tones, emotions, reactions, ect ect. Honestly Dragoon I think you have found a good way to parent a child, and you should not second guess yourself, even though I always seem to do so when it comes to raising my child. It is basic human nature to do so.

I think as parents we always second guess ourselves and ask ourselves am i doing the right thing or should i be teaching them this and not this etc but if we don't second guess ourselves we would not consider other options to raise our children with and therefore we are not opening up differnet opportunities or methods to raise them. I know we had to try several ways to teach our children to be able to sleep on their own confortably in the end we finally went with the controled crying although it sounds harsh its not.

On a different note I want to throw this in, the term “Spare the rod, spoil the child” is shit. With out forms of discipline this world would be a lot more chaotic then it already is. This is obvious seeing the state the world is in right now. Yes different offences require different types of punishment, but seriously some times force (in light doses) can be required.

I have a 4 strike system set up with my son, the first is the obvious one “stop doing what you are doing”, the second is scolding, third being “time out” and the forth is the almighty “diaper pop”. I have managed to perfect the art of the “diaper pop”, for those that don’t know this is a variation of spanking that requires a swift and well placed cupped palm on a buttock. With little force the sound of the hand striking the diaper makes a loud pop, and usually the sound alone is enough to frighten a small child and make them think they have just got the beating of a life time. On the down side if done in public it can also come across that you used force in the swat. But as of now my son has learned for the most part that he doesn’t like the 4th option and will generally stop before getting past a time out. There are still some instances thought that require certain steps to be skipped and he has not learned all of those yet, like for instance temper tantrums can easily bypass steps one AND two if they are sever enough.

I hate it when people glare at you when i you reprimand you child in public i never flog them, but if needed (which in our case usaually is) it is just a light smack on the bum or the hand depending on the case, and people stand there and glare at you as if they are saying OMG they just smacked their child!
Seriously what has the world come to if we are frightened to reprimand our own children in public because of what other people think. Another tactic haha tactic it is likie i am making it sound like a battle, if they decide to through a tantrum we sit them down and start to walk away while of course still keeping an eye on them but it usually works and they tend to get over it and not want to be left behind.

We also have a similar system first we ask them calmly to stop what they are doing, then it is said a bit firmer if continued, then it is count to 3 or 5 then as soon as i get up or head towards them theu usually get the idea and no sooner have i moved then they stop sometimes i try to put a bit of a meanicing frown on my face which tends to always send my wife into fits of laughter which doesn't help when i am trying to be stern, but if all that fails it results in a smack to the nappy region.
We don't imply the diaper pop but generally just a light spank to the nappy is enough the nappy acts as a cushion so it doesn't hurt but it is the shock of the smack that is effective and usually if done with speed and catching them unaware helps as well.
Yes quite often steps have to be skipped if it is more serious like hurting a cibiling or a dangerous act.

I will add another thing, i like to have a set routine set up which i think is crucial my children already know that after dinner it is bath time then we get dressed and read a book. When we wake up of a morning it is straight to the table for breakfats and so on.

On the topic of discipline, yes, it is necessary at times, but from my experience I have noticed that it is all about how you administer the discipline instead of what you decide to do. One of my trademark moves I use is called the "laser beam stare", where I get the client's attention by calling out their name, and once they see me, I bow my a head a tiny bit and give them a stern look of disapproval. Usually for most of my clients, this is a big enough warning to them to stop being naughty. If the shenanigans continue, then I will drop what I'm doing (sometimes I'll drop my clipboard a little harder then normal just to get their attention) and slowly walk towards them. Not only do I have their attention, the slow walk gives time for the clients to de-escalate themselves and the situation at hand. If the situation continues, I will ask the client what they are doing and if they want to stay where they are or try another activity. If they want to stay in the room, then I tell them they need to behave otherwise we're going to do something else. This gets them to settle down and an incentive to continue their activity while being good. Usually I will try to stay away from using force, but there have been times when a client has attempted to hurt property and other clients, so I had no other choice but to restrain a client physically. It's never a good feeling to do so and I feel like I was a terrible staff member afterwards, but it was the only way to keep the client from injuring his self and others. Also, the whole discipline thing thing is very frustrating to me in regards to other staff members as well. Although compared to other staff, I am above average in being stern, but I've had clients that don't know how to cooperate any other way, so it was out of necessity moreso than anything, so occasionally I will have another staff member making a comment about me being "mean". I'm like, "are you serious?" Even though everyone goes through training before working at my job, you can always seperate the "good" workers over the "other" ones, simply through their interactions with other clients and through what kind of schedule of clients they have during the week. When I have a staff that tells me that I am mean, I simply scoff it off, because they have never had to deal with clients that can escalate to situations of violence and resistance like the flip of a switch. I may sound mean, but I do it to protect my client, like out of love, not because I want to.

I also imply the look and when i get up i do it quite quickly and maybe with the stomp of a foot or make a loud noise and it usually gets their attention. I agree with your methods and your reasons if it is to stop injury or breakage of property then of course it is duty of care to do what is required to prevent or avoid the result, and yes it is a bad feeling when you have to use force but after i give my child a smack from doing something very bad i settle them down and explain to them in a calm fashion that that ids the wrong thing or that it is naughty. I find if they are not co-operating or throughing a tantrum to try and distract them for example our son has severe tantrums and the only wy to stop him some times is to say in an excitd tone "Can you hear that, what is that" or "What is that over there" and in some cases as silly as it sounds i have a thing that i do sort of like the claw that Jim Carey does out of Liar Liar where i walk my fingers along a surface and say "Look out the tickle monster is coming" which stops his tantrum and settles him down so i can talk to him and try to communicate with him because as you would know it is near impposible to communicate with a child having a tantrum.