Obama the 45th President of the U.S.A.

[Meier Link]

Ok after all of the hype it is time to play on a technical difficulty.

As we all know Obama is the 44th President, but by all practicle means he wasn't.

First off, Bush left office leaving no official president

Secondly, Biden took his oath of office prior to the Obama mess up.

And lastly, Obama swore in shortly after Biden. The problem is that he messed up on the oath. Technically making his oath null and void. The next eveing he swore in properly. The oath HAS to be word for word.

As law mandates, if there is not a current President the vice-president will assume the roll of Commander and Chief. Hence Biden was the vice president before Obama was swore in, there was no president by a mishap for well over 24 hours making Biden the President for that period of time.

Obviously this is a little on the obsurd side BUT by all practicle means it is true.

I have been hearing this crap for a few days now and want to get your take on it.

:: Please keep in mind that this will be the only thread allowing short posting as long as they are relevent to the thread or prove a point ::

[Sean]

Someone watches too much FOX news imo.

I was tempted to leave it at that, since I have nothing to expand upon, but this is all I've heard from republican after republican, and FOX news covers this so hard it's disgusting.

Obama messed up, I'd assume, out of nerves. He had a lot going through his head at the inauguration, and the slip-up came from Chief Justice Roberts repeating the words back to him in an improper manner, furthering the confusion. And "OMG is he really the president, I mean.. his hand wasn't on a bible during the 2nd oath" bullshit pisses me off. What the **** ever happened to separation of church and state? I'll never understand why we, as Americans, swear an oath on bibles.

[Sinister]

I think you would find this has happened before. I suggest reading of the David Rice Atchison affair.(Which I'm sure our own James K. Polk could tell you more of. Also, if it is true, it makes Obama the 46th President, but then we may have lost count by now, if we go about it like this.) But though these little missteps can only make one acting President and therefore do not actually count on the list of real presidents. As Presidents are by definition elected officials, and not President pro tempore.

-Sin

[Psybadek]

Someone watches too much FOX news imo.

I was tempted to leave it at that, since I have nothing to expand upon, but this is all I've heard from republican after republican, and FOX news covers this so hard it's disgusting.

Obama messed up, I'd assume, out of nerves. He had a lot going through his head at the inauguration, and the slip-up came from Chief Justice Roberts repeating the words back to him in an improper manner, furthering the confusion. And "OMG is he really the president, I mean.. his hand wasn't on a bible during the 2nd oath" bullshit pisses me off. What the **** ever happened to separation of church and state? I'll never understand why we, as Americans, swear an oath on bibles.

All I will say is the separation of church and state is NOT in the constitution and it doesn't mean what everyone want's to believe it means

[Meier Link]

Someone watches too much FOX news imo.

Actually it is every where and alot of Democrats have been screaming the same thing,

I was tempted to leave it at that, since I have nothing to expand upon, but this is all I've heard from republican after republican, and FOX news covers this so hard it's disgusting.

Obama messed up, I'd assume, out of nerves. He had a lot going through his head at the inauguration, and the slip-up came from Chief Justice Roberts repeating the words back to him in an improper manner, furthering the confusion. And "OMG is he really the president, I mean.. his hand wasn't on a bible during the 2nd oath" bullshit pisses me off. What the **** ever happened to separation of church and state? I'll never understand why we, as Americans, swear an oath on bibles.

Placing the hand on the bible has technically never had anything to do with the President being sworn in, it has just been tradition. Hence the escape from religious persicution. There is nothing that requires it. But there is something that requires the oath to be said word for word. Even if the chief justice messed up.

[B]SinB]
I think you would find this has happened before. I suggest reading of the David Rice Atchison affair.(Which I'm sure our own James K. Polk could tell you more of. Also, if it is true, it makes Obama the 46th President, but then we may have lost count by now, if we go about it like this.) But though these little missteps can only make one acting President and therefore do not actually count on the list of real presidents. As Presidents are by definition elected officials, and not President pro tempore.

If you really get into American history this has happened 3 times before Obama, but the difference is they quickly (duing the oath) started over and completed it. Also the vice president in those occasions where sworn in after the President. So by all practicle means he would still be the 45th President.

And Sean I could really care less about it really, I just want to see what everyone's opinions are.

[Sinister]

No, you misunderstand me. President is an elected/appointed official. Biden would have only been an acting President. Not an actual President. Also, Atchison was actually sworn into the office. So it would still be theorhetically 46.

[Walter Sobchak]

This is not technically true. At noon, Obama became President of the United States. The oath did not take place until a few minutes later, but he had become President. The 20th Amendment and Article 2 of the Constitution kind of contradict each other. The oath is needed for the execution of the office, aka the powers of the Presidency. But at noon Obama's term began.

In 1916, the State Department said "there is no interval between the term of one President and the beginning of his successor, although there may be a slight interval when the executive power is suspended". So no, Biden was not President.

[Musashiden]

All I will say is the separation of church and state is NOT in the constitution and it doesn't mean what everyone want's to believe it means

The words "separation of church and state" may not be in the Constitution, but this is:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

First Amendment. Jefferson himself said that this means a "wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world". You can practice however you want, and the government will in no way stop you, because it is not a theocracy. In the Treaty of Tripoli said that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

Whether you like it or not, while the majority of the populace may be Christian, the government as a political body is secular.

Also:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Article 6 of the Constitution. I may be reading it wrong, but the oath of office being sworn with one hand on a bible and being made to say "so help me god" seems like a religious test to me.

Anyway...

I personally think it's hilarious that people are making any kind of big deal out of it. It's ridiculous.

[Govinda]

And?

I can't believe you guys, and your country, appear to be getting so hyped about a technicality. Christ. There are far more important things happening in the world.

[Meier Link]

As stated my OP

Meier
As we all know Obama is the 44th President

I know this to be true, but there is just a bunch of random chatter over the net and on the news, which 99% of the time are severly biased opinions. So I figured it would be a little bit of fun to get some unbiased opinions on the matter.

[Zerobanshee]

either way, he's a human being.

most of us will agree that at least half of our lives, we are stumbling, tripping and falling through our own mistakes. It's no small wonder that Obama slip, too; the fact that Chief Justice Roberts was the one who slipped up first, then repeated the Oath back again caused a small dilemna shouldn't be overhyped.

Yes, a mistake was made. Yes, they respoken the oath. Which shows they corrected their mistake, which should now be overlooked. When you spill milk, you don't sit there and break down the necessary components of how the milk was spilled, why it was spilled, and the necessary precautions you must take to mop up the milk; you grab a mop, and clean up the mess.

[Clint]

The 20th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified on January 23, 1933, clearly states that the president's and vice president's terms end at noon on January 20th, and at that same time, the president and vice president elects' terms begin. The oath means nothing. The only reason why it's still said is because of a 220 year old tradition that was started when George Washington was inaugurated as the first president of the United States on April 30, 1789.

[Musashiden]

The 20th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified on January 23, 1933, clearly states that the president's and vice president's terms end at noon on January 20th, and at that same time, the president and vice president elects' terms begin. The oath means nothing. The only reason why it's still said is because of a 220 year old tradition that was started when George Washington was inaugurated as the first president of the United States on April 30, 1789.

I'd like to see how someone would fare as president if they didn't take the oath of office. I personally think it would be a riot to see a president-elect say "screw you guys, I'm not reciting this shit."

[Psybadek]

either way, he's a human being.

most of us will agree that at least half of our lives, we are stumbling, tripping and falling through our own mistakes. It's no small wonder that Obama slip, too; the fact that Chief Justice Roberts was the one who slipped up first, then repeated the Oath back again caused a small dilemna shouldn't be overhyped.

Yes, a mistake was made. Yes, they respoken the oath. Which shows they corrected their mistake, which should now be overlooked. When you spill milk, you don't sit there and break down the necessary components of how the milk was spilled, why it was spilled, and the necessary precautions you must take to mop up the milk; you grab a mop, and clean up the mess.

edit

Well for the most part I don't see the big deal, it's like you said He's human and made a mistake

[Walter Sobchak]

The 20th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified on January 23, 1933, clearly states that the president's and vice president's terms end at noon on January 20th, and at that same time, the president and vice president elects' terms begin. The oath means nothing. The only reason why it's still said is because of a 220 year old tradition that was started when George Washington was inaugurated as the first president of the United States on April 30, 1789.

The beginning of a term and the powers of the execution of the Office are two different things. If it was "meaningless" Obama would not have done it again.

Article 2 of the Constitution was not repealed upon the passage of the 20th Amendment. If it was just for show, then not only would Obama not have done it again, but neither would Reagan or Eisenhower. And I doubt the shock of the assassination of John F. Kennedy would have left Lyndon Johnson in the mood to take the oath just for show.

[Sinister]

And?

I can't believe you guys, and your country, appear to be getting so hyped about a technicality. Christ. There are far more important things happening in the world.

It's a debate of technicalities, Govinda. For fun only. It was just a debate of proper procedure in Parliamentary locus standi. As for the country debating it...they are doing so because it is an interesting question that either has been raised seldom enough or not at all in remembered past.

It's not a serious concern, I dare say, in either sense. Unless one particular party(which shall go unnamed) is trying to take a jab at another. Which is certainly possible.


Also, I move that this should be relocated to Intelligent Discussion. Any nay-sayers?

-Sin

[Clint]

Article 2 of the Constitution was not repealed upon the passage of the 20th Amendment. If it was just for show, then not only would Obama not have done it again, but neither would Reagan or Eisenhower. And I doubt the shock of the assassination of John F. Kennedy would have left Lyndon Johnson in the mood to take the oath just for show.

If it wasn't for show, then the 20th Amendment wouldn't exist.

[Walter Sobchak]

If it wasn't for show, then the 20th Amendment wouldn't exist.

Simply not true. The 20th Amendment set the date of January 20th, moving it from March 4th to January 20th. The amendment applies not only to President and Vice President, but to Senators and congressmen too. It also sets out the line of Presidential succession, and states that the House of Representatives can appoint a President or Vice President if the need arises.

The 20th Amendment matters, but so does Article 2 of the Constitution. There is a reason Gregory Craig urgently told Obama to retake the oath. If he hadn't done so, there would have been legal challenges on anything he tried to pass.

Constitutional scholars argue about this all the time. Until Article 2 is nullified, it still stands equal to the 20th Amendment. The terms starts at noon, but a President has to take the oath.

When Lyndon Johnson was sworn in, he didn't start a new term. He became the President, but was filling the remainder of Kennedy's term. So there is a difference in terminology when it comes to a Presidential term and the amount of time one holds the Office. If Bush had died in 2006, he would have been elected to two terms. Cheney would have taken the office by oath, and would serve the remainder of the term.

Before the 20th Amendment, a President's term would end at midnight and the next President would not be sworn in until noon. That is one of the reasons the amendment was created in the first place, as well as to reduce the lame duck session.

[Christa Pho!]

Wow, I can't believe the frivolousim of this topic...

To set the record straight, Obama was not responsible for the mishap.
The Chief Justice decided to announce the oath without the actually text being in front of him, and he misquoted the oath.
Obama, having already known the oath, was obviously baffled by this scenario, and tried his best to take the oath.

This however, by no means,insist that Barack Obama was not president at 12 A.M. that day.The only time Joe Biden was "technicially" president, was the time between Biden's oath and Obama's oath.

[sonicisrad]

I don't care what Number President Obama is. He rules, with an Iron Fist baby!! Obama's gonna change the world baby!! And....He's left handed!!! Woohoo!!

[Furore]

I think some technicalities are really a lot less of an issue than some people think. But another thing did come to mind as I read through this thread.

People go on about how he's the first black president. From what I've been reading he should really be called either the first brown or possibly even the first gray president as from what I understand he was the child of a black man and a white woman. Once again, just a stupid technicality. And one that does amuse me on some level, which is pretty sad when I think about it...

Meh.

[Casanova[OCAU]]

Ok after all of the hype it is time to play on a technical difficulty.

As we all know Obama is the 44th President, but by all practicle means he wasn't.

First off, Bush left office leaving no official president

Secondly, Biden took his oath of office prior to the Obama mess up.

And lastly, Obama swore in shortly after Biden. The problem is that he messed up on the oath. Technically making his oath null and void. The next eveing he swore in properly. The oath HAS to be word for word.

As law mandates, if there is not a current President the vice-president will assume the roll of Commander and Chief. Hence Biden was the vice president before Obama was swore in, there was no president by a mishap for well over 24 hours making Biden the President for that period of time.

Obviously this is a little on the obsurd side BUT by all practicle means it is true.

I have been hearing this crap for a few days now and want to get your take on it.

:: Please keep in mind that this will be the only thread allowing short posting as long as they are relevent to the thread or prove a point ::

Yea. Lets kick out a democratically elected leader because he said a couple of words wrong

Jeez you lot (republicans) need to grow a pair and just admit that you lost, because of years of shit policy when it comes to economics, foreign policy and incompetence in dealing with social issues.

A few words mean nothing. Trying to discredit someone saying 'YOORE NAWT MAA LEADERR.. YOO DIDN SAAY IT PROPARLEE' is just retarded. If you're going to try and pick an issue, at least do it over something worthwhile, like you don't agree with his plan of increase govt. expenditure and it should come in the form of tax cuts for the upper classes or something.

So far, he's been action man. Globally speaking, he's already gone a ways to fixing the world's view of the US.

[M16]

The number of liberals/democrats that don't support Bush surprises me. If you look at his policies, and a lot of his programs, they were all very liberal. He was not a conservative Republican.

[Meier Link]

Casanova[OCAU]
Yea. Lets kick out a democratically elected leader because he said a couple of words wrong

When did I ever say that? Points to note in my post

Myself
As we all know Obama is the 44th President

Myself
Obviously this is a little on the obsurd side

Casanova[OCAU]
Jeez you lot (republicans) need to grow a pair and just admit that you lost, because of years of shit policy when it comes to economics, foreign policy and incompetence in dealing with social issues.

Who has denied it? I know I am republican and now support our President as I would support any other US President regaurdless of political alliances.

Casanova[OCAU]
A few words mean nothing. Trying to discredit someone saying 'YOORE NAWT MAA LEADERR.. YOO DIDN SAAY IT PROPARLEE' is just retarded. If you're going to try and pick an issue, at least do it over something worthwhile, like you don't agree with his plan of increase govt. expenditure and it should come in the form of tax cuts for the upper classes or something.

Actually those words mean everything, I guess mandated by the constitution is irrelivant also????? And once agian who is trying to discredit Obama and denie that he is the leader of the U.S.? Your little rant is not really applicable to the conversation that is at hand. You might want to think about what you are reading, or heck just read it all together before making slandurous claims.

The point of the thread is not to discredit Obama in anyway, as stated in the first post that you so nicely quoted and didn't actually respond to correctly, this is a play on technicalities.

[Walter Sobchak]

The number of liberals/democrats that don't support Bush surprises me. If you look at his policies, and a lot of his programs, they were all very liberal. He was not a conservative Republican.

Because invading countries, restricting abortions, and railing against gay marriage are cornerstones of liberalism. You will probably retort with how much spending he did, but the truth is all Republicans are just as big of spenders as Democrats. Reagan made the national debt trendy, after all.

Why is everyone jumping down Meier Link's throat? He has made it known that he is a Republican several times, but he is not an ideologue. I thought it was a fairly good topic to make, especially in comparison to what else floats around here.

[M16]

It's a Democratic ideal to spread our troops. Before the Gulf War, it was almost an exclusively Democratic action to spread troops/go to war. He raised taxes. He raised spending. He formed several new government programs. He spread government size and scope and influence.

Sure, he was anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage. Besides those two, and his energy policies, he was a pretty liberal president.

I wasn't jumping down Meier's throat. I was just commenting on how most people don't know much about Bush.

[Casanova[OCAU]]

Actually those words mean everything, I guess mandated by the constitution is irrelivant also????? And once agian who is trying to discredit Obama and denie that he is the leader of the U.S.? Your little rant is not really applicable to the conversation that is at hand. You might want to think about what you are reading, or heck just read it all together before making slandurous claims.

The point of the thread is not to discredit Obama in anyway, as stated in the first post that you so nicely quoted and didn't actually respond to correctly, this is a play on technicalities.

It was a slanderous rant. Apologies. Long day at work

Anyway, I'm more interested in this last bit. Why are people so obsessed with 'the word of the law', rather than the spirit of it? It's like 'saying' the right oath is more important than following it.

Heck given the rut the US is in now, this is hardly newsworthy IMO. There's a lot of work to be done and hopefully Obama (I actually have no hope he will do this) will actually 'change the game' rather than merely restarting it. The way the world economics is run, where the fundamentals are flawed (market is always > government) etc are ridiculously flawed.

Who has denied it? I know I am republican and now support our President as I would support any other US President regaurdless of political alliances.

Perhaps you shouldn't do that? The democratic process doesn't end after an election. If your leader is an incompetent lying scumbag **** who's out to wreck the world, I'd probably suggest, probably.. opposing him? Rather than simply supporting him because 'he's our president now'.
(I'm only carrying this on because in your custom title, you said you like trolls... and.. I can't help myself)