Music Haven

[Halie]

Welcome to the club, Mr Spike. I also really love Avenged Sevenfolds' 'Dear God'. It actually took me quite a while to adjust to it, because it was so different to the rest of the album. Anyhoo, welcome.

[Mr Spike]

Welcome to the club, Mr Spike. I also really love Avenged Sevenfolds' 'Dear God'. It actually took me quite a while to adjust to it, because it was so different to the rest of the album. Anyhoo, welcome.

Ta for the welcome

Yeah, it is different, but that, in a way, is good. I got annoyed with all the people shouting "OMG Mainstream!!". But, if you think about it, it's completely the opposite. Mainstream would have had all the same kind of songs, whereas it's a complete change in direction from the rest of the album.

What's interesting (and funny) to do is go listen to their first album, and see how much they've changed......

[Halie]

Mm, I do agree that having different styles rather than just one is good, and I enjoy that, but it seemed quite dramatically different to the rest of the of the album at first. 'A Little Piece Of heaven' was also really different, but I fell in love with that one straigh away. Kind of strange...hmm.

Aye, they really have changed, for the better in my opinion. A lot of their old stuff is very similar, whereas I think the new album has a lot more character. City Of Evil was confusing for me. For a while I would get 'Trashed And Scattered', 'Blinded In Chains' and 'Burn It Down' mixed up with each other and I'd forget which was which.

[Mr Spike]

Mm, I do agree that having different styles rather than just one is good, and I enjoy that, but it seemed quite dramatically different to the rest of the of the album at first. 'A Little Piece Of heaven' was also really different, but I fell in love with that one straigh away. Kind of strange...hmm.

Aye, they really have changed, for the better in my opinion. A lot of their old stuff is very similar, whereas I think the new album has a lot more character. City Of Evil was confusing for me. For a while I would get 'Trashed And Scattered', 'Blinded In Chains' and 'Burn It Down' mixed up with each other and I'd forget which was which.

"A Little Piece of Heaven" is brilliant, how many other bands would do a song based on necrophilia?

They really seem to have found themselves now, however, I really liked "Waking the Fallen" however as you said some of the songs did sound quite similar.

It also really annoyed me, when "City of Evil" came out, i knew of people who were saying they were "huge avenged fans" and all they'd heard was "Beast and the Harlot" and "Bat Country" or "Seize the Day". That annoys me for all bands really, people saying they are huge fans and they've heard one song... liking a band is accepting most, if not all of their music.

[Meier Link]

i find it a rarity for a band not to change/ conform their sounds. but i guess thats a fact of life - change its enevitible. sorry for being so random

[Govinda]

Without change though, artists stagnate. Whether or not their change makes them more popular isn't the question; I mean, what if Bowie had stayed at the Ziggy stage? What if Dylan had never stopped writing protest songs? Change is needed. Just sometimes it makes bands more popular, is all.

Well, Chez, I guess the Beatles will continue to fly over your head as all metal and branches of metal fly neatly over mine. Each to their own, makes life more interesting.

[Mr Spike]

i find it a rarity for a band not to change/ conform their sounds. but i guess thats a fact of life - change its enevitible. sorry for being so random

You make a good point there. I cannot (well, off the top of my head anyway) think of a single band or artist that has not changed music style over their lifespan. Whether this is down to changing personal opinion (as was the case with Trivium, for example) or in an effort to fit in and become mainstream is difficult to find.

The best bands are the ones that are able to change sound and STILL sound awesome. I'm thinking Avenged Sevenfold, Atreyu, Trivium (to an extent), Yellowcard.

(For those who haven't a clue about the bands i'm talking about, take my word that they used to be be way different to what they are. Check youtube if you're really interested)

(Did i sound pompous or otherwise stuck up my own arse when i said that?? Sure sounded it to me!!! )

[Halie]

Well, while most bands do change their styles, they don't always turn out for the better. You mentioned Trivium changing a lot, which is true, but in my opinion it wasn't a good change. I much prefer Ascendency to The Crusade. Their latest album went far too Metallica-y I think, and while I do like Metallica, I don't like clones of them.

But take Bullet For My Valentine for instance, their new album is also a lot different to their old, but I think their change was really good and they couldn't have done it better I think. Though I still can't decide which I prefer...they're both really good, and very different. And also, Bullet are like Metallica too, but I think they have their own element that seperates them from what Trivium did.

(And no, it didn't make you sound that stuck up XD)

[Omega Weapon]

i find it a rarity for a band not to change/ conform their sounds. but i guess thats a fact of life - change its enevitible. sorry for being so random

Some people accuse bands of selling out when they have just changed their sound..I totally disagree with that. I think someday they will be bored of what they always do so they will try different genres which a normal thing by the way. nearly most of the bands have done the same thing by changing their sound. in the other hand, some bands are just trying to change their sound just to become more modern, not working though! however, being able to do something else shows that there is talent in a band and an ability to grow.

EDIT: I've just added two tags to this thread!

[You]

Welcome to the club Mr Spike^^ Dream Theatre is an amazing band!!

Well, while most bands do change their styles, they don't always turn out for the better. You mentioned Trivium changing a lot, which is true, but in my opinion it wasn't a good change. I much prefer Ascendency to The Crusade. Their latest album went far too Metallica-y I think, and while I do like Metallica, I don't like clones of them.

Agreed. Its one thing to sound similar to, to be along the same lines. But being a clone is another matter all together.

Some people accuse bands of selling out when they have just changed their sound..I totally disagree with that. I think someday they will be bored of what they always do so they will try different genres which a normal thing but the way. nearly most of the bands have done the same thing by changing their sound. in the other hand, some bands are just trying to change their sound just to become more modern, not working though! however, being able to do something else shows that there is talent in a band and an ability to grow.

Abso-God-damn-lutely! Change is something that is inevitable. Artists are obviously going to get bored playing songs and pieces they are comfortable with and have been doing for years so of course they want to try something new and different, Metallicas St. Anger anyone? Of course the change isnt always percieved as good. However it can help a band grow and become better in the long run. And anyone who says "So-so band sold out cos their style changed" is being silly. Band do not automatically sell out when they change style. Of course so do but often they don't, or at least don't intend to. If a band can change style and still pull off a great album thats when you know they are gonna be among the greats.

[Mr Spike]

Well, while most bands do change their styles, they don't always turn out for the better. You mentioned Trivium changing a lot, which is true, but in my opinion it wasn't a good change. I much prefer Ascendency to The Crusade.

True, Trivium have had alot of criticism aimed at them for becoming "mainstream" however that was firstly a personal choice by the band and secondly because Matt Heafy destroyed his throat..... ouch

But take Bullet For My Valentine for instance, their new album is also a lot different to their old, but I think their change was really good and they couldn't have done it better I think. Though I still can't decide which I prefer...they're both really good, and very different. And also, Bullet are like Metallica too, but I think they have their own element that seperates them from what Trivium did.

Yes, Bullet's change was good. As much as i liked the "The Poison" it didn't really try anything new. The new album, although a change, is a good one - more technical, less screaming, better lyrics.

They have said that Metallica are one of their biggest influences - i seem to remember that Metallica's "Enter Sandman" was the first song he saw on MTV and he got hooked on it (is this right? I can't for the life of me remember). And "Say Goodnight" sounds very Metallica-esq until about 2'30.....

(And no, it didn't make you sound that stuck up XD)

Well, that's always nice!!

Welcome to the club Mr Spike^^ Dream Theatre is an amazing band!!

YahHEEEE!!!

(scuse the random moment.....)

[You]

Yes, Bullet's change was good. As much as i liked the "The Poison" it didn't really try anything new. The new album, although a change, is a good one - more technical, less screaming, better lyrics.

They have said that Metallica are one of their biggest influences - i seem to remember that Metallica's "Enter Sandman" was the first song he saw on MTV and he got hooked on it (is this right? I can't for the life of me remember). And "Say Goodnight" sounds very Metallica-esq until about 2'30.....

Yeah I agree to a certain extent. Its a good album and change is always interesting and nice. But to me the album seemed a bit, I dunno, like they were trying out too many different styles and it almost sounds as if its been over produced, at least imo. The songs are still good, but im still not sure if its better than The Poison.
And one of the reasons for less screaming is Matts surgery at least. I was under the impression that this was one major factor in their change of style, I could be wrong however.

[Mr Spike]

And one of the reasons for less screaming is Matts surgery at least. I was under the impression that this was one major factor in their change of style, I could be wrong however.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure that was a fairly big factor. It's probably from all the smoking he does.....and the drinking, and the.... well, you get my point.

Was it just me, or did his voice sound a bit flat and toneless on Scream Aim Fire? I have their live DVD, and he's a fair decent singer, and the album was a bit of a letdown in that regard.

Here's to hoping that it's due to surgery and not that he can't sing either anymore.

[You]

Was it just me, or did his voice sound a bit flat and toneless on Scream Aim Fire? I have their live DVD, and he's a fair decent singer, and the album was a bit of a letdown in that regard.

Yeah thats because in the Poison they put a load of reverb and effects on his voice to get that sound. In Scream. Aim. Fire. they didnt. But yeah is surgery probably contributed to this too. Shame cos I quite liked it with the effects on.

[Mr Spike]

Yeah thats because in the Poison they put a load of reverb and effects on his voice to get that sound. In Scream. Aim. Fire. they didnt. But yeah is surgery probably contributed to this too. Shame cos I quite liked it with the effects on.

Did they? I had no idea about that.... well, you learn something new every day I guess.

Well, in that case, bring them back! His voice was pretty good in The Poison.

And that brings up another interesting topic: To what extent should albums be altered (like reverb etc) to make them sound good? Surely good bands make it sound good, whereas below-par bands have to get a ton of help to help the album sound good.... what is the take on that?

[Furore]

Some people accuse bands of selling out when they have just changed their sound..I totally disagree with that. I think someday they will be bored of what they always do so they will try different genres which a normal thing by the way. nearly most of the bands have done the same thing by changing their sound. in the other hand, some bands are just trying to change their sound just to become more modern, not working though! however, being able to do something else shows that there is talent in a band and an ability to grow.

EDIT: I've just added two tags to this thread!

I mainly see the difference between a band or artist selling out and changing their sound, being that selling out entails changing both their look and music (and therefore to me their musical integrity) just to appeal to a certain crowd that is larger than most others at any point in time, whereas changing their sound could just mean, literally changing their sound as they want to go in a new direction for whatever reasons they may have not seemingly solely based on reasons such as appealing to a wider audience just to get paid more or a limited form of popularity. Honestly, some bands feel like more of a fad these days. Popular today, unpopular or forced to change whenever the next trends come in...

It could just be me though.

[You]

selling out entails changing both their look and music (and therefore to me their musical integrity) just to appeal to a certain crowd

I never thought of that. Its a very good point and I have to agree.

And that brings up another interesting topic: To what extent should albums be altered (like reverb etc) to make them sound good? Surely good bands make it sound good, whereas below-par bands have to get a ton of help to help the album sound good.... what is the take on that?

Its hard for me to get my thoughts down on this one as I cant find the right words. I think bands are entitled to use as much effects as they like when writing and making music. Effects can help sculpt and change the song to the intended sound and bring out the right messages and feelings. However this can also be done with out all kinds of effects and so on. I personally think they shouldnt be over used and as such be used to enhance and compliment a song or piece of music. If its good effects can make it great or even ruin it. They will never make a really bad song great though.
One thing I dont agree on though is using effects and enhancements to such an extent that the sound and music can only be replicated in a studio. Whats the point in that? There is something more I would want to add but I cant quite word it right. Ill add it in later if I get it.

[Halie]

And that brings up another interesting topic: To what extent should albums be altered (like reverb etc) to make them sound good? Surely good bands make it sound good, whereas below-par bands have to get a ton of help to help the album sound good.... what is the take on that?

I think putting effects on albums is okay. They can really help the sound, and at the end of the day, you want to listen to something that sounds good. Effects can help with that. But I don't like it when they make the vocalist sound like a completely fake robot.

Anyway, take My Immortal by Evanescence for an example. On their album Fallen, there are two My Immortal tracks. One of them has no effects, and it doesn't have any enhancements on it. Whereas, the hidden My Immortal (Band Version) track does have effects put on them. You can tell how by alive her vocals are. Whereas, in the first My Immortal track, her vocals aren't as bright and alive. Don't get me wrong, both versions are brill. But it just proves how a little bit of these effects can do so much good to just one aspect of the song. Brill little machines, those effect things.

[You]

But I don't like it when they make the vocalist sound like a completely fake robot.

But at least thats always funny^^

An interesting question:

From the genre of music you hate the most can you name a band you actually like?

[Omega Weapon]

Effects can help sculpt and change the song to the intended sound and bring out the right messages and feelings

Exactly! I wish I could give you some rep again.

From the genre of music you hate the most can you name a band you actually like?

Hahaha, Well, Like I said before, I don't really care about genres but I don't really like hip hop and rap, I don't need to hear about people killing each other, however, Once in a while I'll find a song from one of these genres that is catchy, but that's as far as it ever goes. None of these artists could ever gain the admiration I have for many artists that perform rock. so, I can't really name a band or an artist that I actually like.

[Confession]

From the genre of music you hate the most can you name a band you actually like?

Easay Peasay.

I really dislike hip-hoppity and RmB But I like 2 bands fromthat genre, N.W.A (******s With Attitude) and The Wu Tang Clan. I like them manly 'cos there songs are catchy, and also they "rap" about funny shit like how they have a worse criminal record then Charles Manson.

[You]

I really like Eva Cassidy, whatever genre she is in, but I dont hate whatever genre she is in. Rap and Hip Hop is the one genre I really dont like but believe it or not I quite like Timbaland, simply because he sings about things other than ass and booty in his songs. Some of them actually put forward a decent message. Plus you have to admit he is a great producer and mixer.

[Chez Daja]

Chairman Meow, looooove that new set you're wearing.

From the genre of music you hate the most can you name a band you actually like?

Hmm. This is tough for me to answer because I like so many different bands... However... I like Keane.
I also enjoy Fear Factory and Chimaira, which apparently isn't really like me. I even like a couple of Ill Nino songs.

Other than that, I like K.T Tunstall and Dir en Grey.

If I think about it, though, the only genre I hate out of the bands I listed above would be Ill Nino's, which is nu-metal. I don't enjoy nu-metal and it usually involves a lot of weird vocals, especially clean ones, which I don't enjoy from a man.

[Furore]

And that brings up another interesting topic: To what extent should albums be altered (like reverb etc) to make them sound good? Surely good bands make it sound good, whereas below-par bands have to get a ton of help to help the album sound good.... what is the take on that?

I think it really depends on the case in question. Some songs by some artists can be improved a little regardless of how talented the musicians are. It could also depend on the exact song in question, as sometimes there's just one song on an album that doesn't feel quite right. With a little fiddling later, it's a more integral part of the album.

Also, there's some bands where no amount of messing around can really save their music, especially those where while the band members may be passionate, they may not have very much talent. Anyone can pick up an instrument, few can master one.

From the genre of music you hate the most can you name a band you actually like?

Emo? No. Not yet, most likely not ever. Unless you count the proper emo music of the past, and in that case I could think of several examples. But then to me, they were different genres, so... no.
Hip Hop? I don't mind listening to some hip hip, or music with hip hop elements. An example would be a few of Gorillaz' songs. I'm thinking Feel Good Inc for starters. It had some rapping in it, and was quite a nice piece of sound. I'm also amazed at some of the Beat Boxers I hear. Some can make the sounds of a few bands, without any instrument other than their own body. That to me is awesome...

[Halie]

Some can make the sounds of a few bands, without any instrument other than their own body. That to me is awesome...

Mm, I agree with that. Beat boxing is a really great talent to have, but it's mainly used in Hip-Hop, which I don't like.

Anyway...I was thinking about this yesterday, about liking a song or two from a genre I dislike. A n RnB type of song came on the car radio, and the woman singing had a lovely voice, I just didn't like the style. And it got me thinking, a lot of these RnB vocalists have great voices, it's just...I can't stand the style.

Even so, I think the best band of Hip-Hop (or whatever genre they're in) would be the Black Eyed Peas. Some of their songs make me laugh...and they're just...weird in my opinion. Meelikes weird things. Although, to be honest, I wouldn't exactly download any of their songs.

EDIT: Oh aye! Thanks for the rep, Omega Mee has to spread around some rep before giving it to you again. I seriously hate that rule...

[SouL[of]SiN]

I would really love to join the club... :-D

What are/is your favourite type(s) of music?
All kinds of DEATH METAL!!
Do you have a particular favourite artist/band? If so, who?
Opeth
Kataklysm
Naglfar
Hypocrisy

How has music affected your life?
Very much...Helps me get throught the stupidity of the world...Gives me fuel for hatred

Have any musical talents?
I play the piano a little bit but not so good

What's your favourite song at the moment?
As I Slither,by Kataklysm

[Meier Link]

I'm also amazed at some of the Beat Boxers I hear. Some can make the sounds of a few bands, without any instrument other than their own body. That to me is awesome...

speaking of beatboxers
this chick is a one woman band in herself. i am sure some have seen her (the ones that live in the states) but others havent
http://www.nbc.com/Americas_Got_Tale...eo/#mea=143861

An interesting question:

From the genre of music you hate the most can you name a band you actually like?

actually i can do this quite easily, willy nelson and garth brooks. the rest are crap to me

[Mr Spike]

From the genre of music you hate the most can you name a band you actually like?

Well, i don't really like Indie stuff (Razorlight, Franz Ferdinand etc) but i admit i do quite likethe band Thursday, who are that sort of Indie style, although they have been classified as post-hardcore as well. Though they are probably the closest thing to Indie i listen to.

Rage Against the machine as well, they do have some (however subtle) rap elements to them as well.

speaking of beatboxers
this chick is a one woman band in herself. i am sure some have seen her (the ones that live in the states) but others havent
http://www.nbc.com/Americas_Got_Tale...eo/#mea=143861

AWESOME!!! Seen a bit of beatboxing before (not live, mind) but that's very impressive!!

[Dimi]

Originally posted by You
From the genre of music you hate the most can you name a band you actually like?

This might sound sad but I like Tim McGraw and Rascall Flats. And I hate country. I despise it. I do think my Nina played a big role when I was younger that had led to this outcome of me not heavily getting into it. Trust me. When you're sitting in a car on a road trip to frickin' Texas with nothing to do but just wait till time passes by and you're listening to "Man, I Feel Like A Woman" hundreds of time, then we'll talk.

But with Rascall Flats, I like their "Life Is A Highway" song. Especially the chorus...


[QUOTE]
Life is a highway
I wanna ride it all night long
If you're going my way
I wanna drive it all night long
/QUOTE]

Haha and the funny thing is I actually get into it if I hear it and do the little country accent. ><


@ Meier (Didn't it used to be Mejer?): Haha The beginning of the clip made laugh when she made that sound before the beat got insane. She's pretty good. I like her name though...Butterscotch.And she's pretty cute. Watch out Cristina Scabbia, I found me my Chocolate Thunda!!!

[Mr Spike]

But it just proves how a little bit of these effects can do so much good to just one aspect of the song. Brill little machines, those effect things.

Yes, enhancements can be beneficial to overall sound, but then again....

Anyone remember this?

Shall i get the WD40?

Joking aside, that's one of the reasons i like to buy live albums wherever possible, as i feel they are a true representation of a band and their talents, whereas in a studio a false impression can be given.

SouL[of]SiN - Howdy. Try "The Absence". Pretty damn good, if i may say so myself.