Moscow Mayor Promises Winter Without Snow

[Che]

Pigs still can't fly, but this winter, the mayor of Moscow promises to keep it from snowing. For just a few million dollars, the mayor's office will hire the Russian Air Force to spray a fine chemical mist over the clouds before they reach the capital, forcing them to dump their snow outside the city. Authorities say this will be a boon for Moscow, which is typically covered with a blanket of snow from November to March. Road crews won't need to constantly clear the streets, and traffic - and quality of life - will undoubtedly improve.

The idea came from Mayor Yury Luzhkov, who is no stranger to playing God. In 2002, he spearheaded a project to reverse the flow of the vast River Ob through Siberia to help irrigate the country's parched Central Asian neighbors. Although that idea hasn't exactly turned out as planned - scientists have said it's not feasible - this time, Luzhkov says, there's no way he can fail. (See
TIME's photo-essay "Vladimir Putin: Action Figure.")

Controlling the weather in Moscow is nothing new, he says. Ahead of the two main holidays celebrated in the city each year - Victory Day in May and City Day in September - the often cash-strapped air force is paid to make sure that it doesn't, well, rain on the parades. With a city budget of $40 billion a year (larger than New York City's budget), Moscow can easily afford the $2-3 million price tag to keep the skies blue as spectators watch the tanks and rocket launchers roll along Red Square. Now there's a new challenge for the air force: Moscow's notorious blizzards.

"You know how every year on City Day and Victory Day we create the weather?" Luzhkov asked a group of farmers outside Moscow in September, according to Russian media reports. "Well, we should do the same with the snow! Then outside Moscow there will be more moisture, a bigger harvest, while for us it won't snow as much. It will make financial sense." (See pictures of Russia celebrating Victory Day.)

The plan was unsurprisingly rubber-stamped this week by the Moscow City Council, which is dominated by Luzhkov's supporters. Then the city's Department of Housing and Public Works described how it would work. The air force will use cement powder, dry ice or silver iodide to spray the clouds from Nov. 15 to March 15 - and only to prevent "very big and serious snow" from falling on the city, said Andrei Tsybin, the head of the department. This could mean that a few flakes will manage to slip through the cracks. Tsybin estimated that the total cost of keeping the storms at bay would be $6 million this winter, roughly half the amount Moscow normally spends to clear the streets of snow.

So far the main objection to the plan has come from Moscow's suburbs, which will likely be inundated with snow if the plan goes forward. Alla Kachan, the Moscow region's ecology minister, said the proposal still needs to be assessed by environmental experts and discussed with the people living in the area before Luzhkov can enact it. "The citizens of the region have some concerns. We have received lots of messages," she told the RIA news agency. (Read TIME's 1991 article "The End of the U.S.S.R.")

With only a few weeks left before winter comes, environmentalists will have to work fast to keep Luzhkov from implementing his zaniest plan to date - and to stop the first snowflakes from wafting down to the city streets.

source: Moscow Mayor Promises a Winter Without Snow - Yahoo! News

How do you guys feel about this? If you're spraying chemicals into the air, wouldn't you eventually be breathing those chemicals in? That can't be good for you. Also, what about the long term effects of it never snowing in Moscow, assuming they can pull it off. Will it affect anyone else? In the next town over, will they just be getting all of Moscow's bad weather multiplied by ten? Is it morally right to mess with the weather?

[smurphy]

If I remember correctly the Chinese authorities tried to control the rain for the olympics in Beijing in 08, but to only minimal effect using the same methods. There wouldnt be much effect to living organisms as the chemicals are released high in the atmosphere and dispersed. A waste of money really.

[Dodie16]

Haha, this seriously sounds like something out of G.I. Joe. Anyone remember that show? Cobra got thier hands on the Weather Dominator, and used it to do all sorts of terrorizing stuff.

If something good can come of it, like this:

Road crews won't need to constantly clear the streets, and traffic - and quality of life - will undoubtedly improve.

..."Then outside Moscow there will be more moisture, a bigger harvest, while for us it won't snow as much. It will make financial sense."

I don't see a problem with having more food production and a higher quality of life.

Also this:

Tsybin estimated that the total cost of keeping the storms at bay would be $6 million this winter, roughly half the amount Moscow normally spends to clear the streets of snow.

If they can save that much money by doing this, then maybe it isn't so crazy.

I think it's an interesting idea that hopefully will get the desired outcomes. Unfortunately, plans do have a way of not going accordingly. Hopefully there have been numerous talks about the pros and cons of doing this, and this isn't some crack-pot spur of the moment type thing.

As stated, I would also be really worried about inhaling some of that stuff they plan on putting in those clouds. I was always told to be really careful when handling/around dry ice, and I wouldn't want to breathe in cement dust. I have no idea what silver iodide is, so I can't comment about that.

I honestly wouldn't try to mess with natural forces, like controlling the weather. However, I do see how this could be beneficial to Russia. If snow is that big of a problem, and there are people trying to fix said problem for the benefit of all who live there, then I say go ahead.

[Govinda]

Don't **** with nature. Just don't. Big Mama Nature will kick your ass for it in the end. That's the rule.

[Che]

Don't **** with nature. Just don't. Big Mama Nature will kick your ass for it in the end. That's the rule.

Do you believe it's like "playing God"? A lot of people make this argument. I used to, but I realized that I don't believe in "God", at least the one from the bible. Maybe we're supposed to figure out how to manipulate and control things such as weather, or terraform planets so that we may expand ourselves and move outward into the universe. If we can successfully control the weather on our own planet with little to no consequences, I really don't see why we shouldn't.

If, however, by doing this over Moscow it somehow affects people elsewhere, then I believe that it's wrong.

[Govinda]

It's not about 'playing God'. It's about the fact that any large scale experiment is just that: an experiment. I don't believe that the earth is a suitable petri dish. Yes, perhaps one day there will be things we need to try out, things with massive benefits; no snow over Moscow is not a massive benefit, really. It's good for the city council's wallet, and for the citizens in the city centre. You say that it'd be wrong if it affected people outwith Moscow, or Moscow itself, adversely; I'm saying this too, but I'm being pre-emptive about it. Not worth the risk.

When they built that giant dam on the Yangtze in China, it slowed the earth and titled it on its axis by roughly one degree. Nobody saw that coming, because there's no way we can ever know what's really going to happen when we mess around with the planet in a big way. Like I say, maybe one day something will be worth the risk.

As for terraforming other planets and expanding, yes, I think that's a great idea. But let's test it out on said other planets, and leave the one we have alone.

[Martin]

I have one thought. Yes maybe, we are supposed to be all knowing and contemplative. And we may be destined to expand... but what exactly is there to tell you either way? There's no markers, no guidelines. Religion gives people that very notion, an answer that's open to intepretation. Personally I think the human race is parasitic in nature and we've done enough damage to warrant our exclusion from migration of planets. It's too easy to see it as an option to just want to up ship and move - when we screwed this up to begin with. 2012 is going to be a fun film aye.

As to regards weather control, I disagree with it. It's artificial, it detracts from nature. And using the food argument is a bit rubbish if you ask me... if this works and it carries on for a few years, they'll naturally start to alter the seasons for bigger harvests and then try to flood free markets with their surplus, economies will become overinflated, other countries will follow suit and then it'll become a mess.

Hey that's just my thought anyway.

[Alpha]

You won't need to worry about breathing things in, because the 'chemicals' they will use will (probably) be just fine dust particulates that are often used as cloud seeders. Water vapour needs something to condense against (like the mirror in your bathroom), and this is, in effect, all they are doing.

As Gov has said, however, I think such large-scale manipulations are dangerous. Moral, I'm not so sure, but dangerous yes. Everything in the natural world is interconnected, like a food web. It only requires one missing aspect to f*ck everything else up. What happens to the rivers that, come spring, will now have 10x as much snow melt, and the places that usually have a good supply, that will have none. What about avalanche risks in the region where all this new snow will land?

It's too much for us to understand. There are connections we will never realise until we start playing around with it, and then it will be too late. What benefits we think will come from this are more than likely to be overshadowed by the disadvantages.

[Clint]

Doesn't anybody else find this suspicious? The mayor of Moscow wants to spray chemicals into the air to "stop it from snowing." The Soviet Union is coming back, and the Russians are spraying chemicals over their people, claiming it to be for preventing snowfall, whereas in reality, the chemicals mix with the people's DNA, causing them to be immune from radiation, nuclear explosions, and fallout from atomic war. They're going to destroy the U.S., U.K., and China, and once again become the dominant superpower.

But in all seriousness, that's really dumbass idea. Not only would those chemicals effect Moscow, it will be carried through wind currents and possibly effect the entire freakin' world. The United Nations have to put their feet down and finally say to Russia, "You assholes are ****ing idiots. You have always been ****ing idiots, so stop with all the pseudoscience, stop trying to pretend that you're smart, take two steps back and literally **** your own face!"

In Soviet Russia, you don't breathe in chemicals. Chemicals breathe in you.

You won't need to worry about breathing things in, because the 'chemicals' they will use will (probably) be just fine dust particulates that are often used as cloud seeders.

That's probably what they're planning, but then again, dust isn't very good for the lungs.

[Rocky]

Hmm, in my opinion I would feel very uncomfortable for trying to change the weather of the earth, even in a small instance of a single city. Like other people have stated earlier, having even the smallest changes in the ecosystems that we live in can have significant effects. Sure, being able to keep lots of snow out of a city is a well-meaning gesture, but having it dump out into the nearby areas surrounding Moscow could be a bad thing. What if it creates a longer winter cycle for the rural areas, which may create less of a harvest for the subsequent seasons?

We may have the ability to control the weather, but we don't have the resources to predict a positive outcome of those actions, which is a scary thing in my opinion.

[Padraic]

I would have to say they're lucky because I. Hate. Snow. Always have, always will. Its so cold and up here there's always snow, and it gets so ****ing cold! Though I wouldn't use their method to stop the snow, imagine the effect on the environment. Also it doesn't sound that plausible. The only good thing about snow is that its good for cushining falls, and leaving moisture in the ground.

[GypsyElder]

http://thepointofitall.files.wordpre...pg?w=185&h=300

Captain Planet does not approve

I think that if it does work, then more people will become accustomed to using it, which can cause extreme problems. Not good. As for the chemicals, I think anything being sprayed into the air, we will eventually breathe. There's no telling what kind of problems it will cause until it is actually done, but then it's probably too late to fix anything. That's why I think it's best to just let nature take its course. I don't think the chemicals they spray are going to effect just Moscow. Is the snow really that big of an issue?, I think that if anything like this should be done, it should be for the purpose of stopping a hurricane or tornado or something (life threatening hazards). They have been able to live with the snowfall till now, they need to just deal with it like everyone else, instead of doing something that can screw us all over, that sounds a little selfish. There's no problem with wanting to improve quality of life, as long as there's not a chance it can effect the whole world.

Controlling the weather in Moscow is nothing new, he says. Ahead of the two main holidays celebrated in the city each year - Victory Day in May and City Day in September - the often cash-strapped air force is paid to make sure that it doesn't, well, rain on the parades

To keep it from raining on a parade? (....)

Moral, I'm not so sure, but dangerous yes. Everything in the natural world is interconnected, like a food web. It only requires one missing aspect to f*ck everything else up. What happens to the rivers that, come spring, will now have 10x as much snow melt, and the places that usually have a good supply, that will have none. What about avalanche risks in the region where all this new snow will land?

It's too much for us to understand. There are connections we will never realise until we start playing around with it, and then it will be too late. What benefits we think will come from this are more than likely to be overshadowed by the disadvantages.