The Linking of Ancient and Modern Mythos with the Modern World

[BregolAlderon]

Looking at all the different mythologies and stories, you seem to see a common factor. There are Heroes, Villains, journeys, and beasts. It can be viewed in The Odyssey, The Lord of the Rings, and even throughout the final fantasy series, and everything they do in these stories seem in the norm for the characters. We read these stories and think about how its possible for these people to leave their loved ones and friends all for the sake of the journey. Its the inevitable hero complex. Ordinary person takes up a seemingly impossible task and enshrine themselves in the immortality of the stories.

But in today's modern world, that's all we think about. The stories. Heroes as we believe are only the Soldiers, Police, Firefighters and even doctors. But we forget that in these stories, it the uncommon folk who grow into the destinies that shape the world. Why does society deem that quest and journey, should be given only to the soldier that the government hires. Why not take it upon ones shoulders to journey out and explore.

My question, I guess, I'm posing to you, is, Why do these stories, have to be just that? It seems to me that, people are to afraid to make themselves into legends. let me know what you think, even if you think I'm absolutely mad.

[M16]

Because people want plot. People want conflict. People aren't interested in ordinary people doing ordinary things. That doesn't make for a good story. A good story consists of interesting characters in plots that pique interest. Would you want to read about a man who goes to work in an office forty hours a week, goes home to his beloved family, then repeats the next week? Conflict is what makes a story.

I would also argue that the greatest stories aren't necessarily those about heroes, but possibly ordinary people placed in extraordinary circumstances.

[BregolAlderon]

Well yeah I understand that the hardcore story is what people want but what I'm saying is that look at The Hobbit. Bilbo was an ordinary guy that went on an extraordinary adventure. Why not have a story of a man working in an office forty hours a week bored out of his mind, just say forget this, I'm gonna throw away technology and go on a walkabout, and actually do it, without people thinking he's lost his mind. And then turn his walkabout into an adventure, get others who share his thoughts join him, and finally end up doing something so amazing he gets immortalized. That's all I'm meaning. If a cop save someone that's his job.

[M16]

So you're asking why, in real life, people don't do those kinds of things? It's most likely because they have other obligations that they can't afford to just ignore. Obligations such as their families they need to provide for, their house that needs payments in order to sustain, interpersonal relationships that require attention. It's awfully hard to just up and away from responsibilities.

[BregolAlderon]

Ok, I understand people do have, responsibilities, such as families and everything, you cant leave when your a father or have a brother or sister that cant take care of themselves.but why cant a person do that if they were by themselves? I mean that's why a lot of people in stories are single. Why would it be a stretch for a 25 year old who is single fresh out of college, bored with his life, no girlfriend no wife, other family members in perfect health, get a passport whatever money he has saved up, and just leave. Make leather tramp the world. Make wandering and exploring his career, have no ties, except to his family. Why does society say something like that is wrong?

[Alpha]

They don't. Case in point, the so-called Hippy Trail of the 1960s and '70s. Western kids (well, young adults) would just leave everything and apparently go and visit 'unspoiled' places and people. Of course that entire notion is absurd, but that's not something for this thread.

Ordinary people can be heroes. It's a matter of perception. I think my little brother is a hero, and he can't even talk (disabled). If you want to see somebody as a hero, then do just that.

[Robbo]

People do it all the time mostly for religion though as a pilgrimage. Although i would say the reason this office worker we are using as an example wouldn't leave everything to explore is mainly because almost everyone is brought up to be materialistic and where is the physical gain in packing up everything and exploring. The money needed to survive is quite high in modern society and if you were out exploring you wouldn't be working or getting income so you would find life incredibly hard. The curiosity of exploring and the feeling is almost the same as going on a holiday abroad.

You leave everyone you know in a different country to see scenery or enjoy a drunken weekend of mayhem. Also i think the Hero part is all about perspective i think a good example is a suicide bomber who most people think is a horrible and merciless person other cultures praise them for acting on a cause and praise them as hero's.

A lot of suicide bombers are young men with college degrees, smart young men who a lot of people would use as examples to people to idolize them and want to succeed as they have and then ill be honest i'm not sure how these young men are influenced to kill themselves and a lot of innocent bystanders my best guess would be that they were manipulated.

May have gone a little off topic but i think thats what you meant in the first post let me know if i'm wrong.

[BregolAlderon]

Well, with suicide bombers, they may be heroes to their people. But it would seem that the people, other than family members, would forget that person a few years down the road. And I totally understand people are raised to be to materialistic, I myself have several computers and game systems, and a cell phone and all the good stuff, but why does everything have be about the money. I mean the hippie trail was well before my time. But you would think that people would still just have an urge to live off the land and all that good stuff, like the Rangers of the North in LOTR. Or how Beowulf traveled the seas, in search of monsters to slay, he still had a home to go home to and obviously family, but he still was a wandering warrior. And I know that it feels like I'm just complaining or what ever, I'm really just letting this stuff out, I'm not always like this, its just that questions build up inside me and I don't really like talking about this stuff with friends and family, because they just say I'm being stupid, and that I should be content with how the way the world is.

[Robbo]

They maybe would've been forgotten if not for the victims of the bombing being mournful of the people involved and placing a monument to the victims at the place it happened which is a constant reminder to all.

[fragdemon]

Some things you might want to look at:

Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces
The Hero with a Thousand Faces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Campbell pioneered the comparative analysis that you are talking about. He was pretty psychoanalytic about it... but using that sort of analysis is one way of thinking about how lessons from these myths might apply to modern living. I am sure there are more recent people writing on Campbell and in his tradition that have other thoughts on the meanings of these myths for modern people.

Originally Posted by: BregolAlderon
Why not have a story of a man working in an office forty hours a week bored out of his mind, just say forget this, I'm gonna throw away technology and go on a walkabout, and actually do it, without people thinking he's lost his mind. And then turn his walkabout into an adventure, get others who share his thoughts join him, and finally end up doing something so amazing he gets immortalized.

You might want to look at Jon Krakauer's Into the Wild
Into the Wild - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's the story of a bright promising college kid who does just that inspired by Thoreau's Walden. It ends, of course, with his death... but he is also being immortalized by this biography. (Also, according to the Wikipedia page, Sean Penn made a movie about this, but I totally missed it). It's the Gilgamesh sort of immortalization.

Now, you also ask "without people thinking he's lost his mind". Krakauer discusses the negative reaction to this kid even while he also discusses the ways in which this kid is a hero. Real living is always complicated, and maybe the thing that you are lamenting is that in the last few centuries we are allowing ourselves to see that.

I think it is very important and meaningful to remember when undertaking a journey that it is somewhat stupid. There is little to gain. It is only with that realistic and full understanding that we can say someone isn't crazy.

Running out into the woods isn't crazy, it's just odd. But thinking that it is normal would be, because it isn't. Thinking that there are no risks would be, because there are. Thinking that everyone will admire you is grandiose.

And thinking that your hero's journey depends on the esteem of others is too unfair to yourself.
____________

Also, I think you have a very incorrect understanding of a lot of these myths. The epic genre especially, these large journeys and quests aren't for an individual's own personal glory. They act within a large network of social and communal obligations.


In the epic the Iliad, the recurring theme is Achilles' wrath. From the proem/invocation to the ending, we just have wrath everywhere. The story closes when Achilles puts away his wrath... people who don't read the Iliad don't know this BUT IT DOES NOT EVEN TELL THE STORY OF THE FALL OF TROY! The climax and resolution of the story is Achilles learning to put away his wrath and to participate as a social being. Even when Achilles thinks otherwise, he is never fighting for himself but for Greece. When he returns Hector's body to his father--recognizing the importance of honoring the customs of even the local enemies--the story is over.

Beowulf slays Grendel and the mother for a community, invited by the local king. Beowulf slays the dragon (and gives his life in the process) for the sake of his duties to his Kingdom.

Odysseus is trying to return home to both family and kingdom.

Jesus dies to save the world. He does not want to ("Let this cup of suffering pass") but he does so out of duty.

Buddha, even when achieving Enlightenment, does not fully embrace Nirvana and give up the world... otherwise he would not go out to teach it. He retains his attachment to making sure he can pave the way for others to follow his path before he finally dies and extinguishes.


When you think about that, it is unfair to dismiss people for being heroic "just because of their job." A police officer WILLINGLY takes on a heroic job, that's more than can be said for Odysseus. A soldier travels to Iraq and dies for the same mixture of desire for personal glory and commitment to civic duty as Beowulf. And if the soldier thinks it is all about himself and his own achievements, he is committing Achilles' folly.

[Pete]

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that so much of it has already been done, and that these epics really do seem to cover just so much in terms of actions and themes. People will be motivated by whatever it is they seek, be it fame, fortune, glory, pride or happiness, and because of that, our actions can always be compared to those of the characters in the epics.

I also feel that we as a society define heroes in the broadest sense of the word, the protectors, defenders and saviors to the rest of us. That's why the police and soldiers and firefighters are so lauded and regarded as heroes. Their jobs involve danger and a higher risk of injury of death than your paper pusher in an office. You can say that the three groups I mentioned are all compelled by a sense of duty or honor, or even pride.

On the other hand, these same groups aren't seen in the same light UNTIL something happens and they have to act. The cop just patrolling the street is viewed as a nuisance, until he catches a criminal. The firefighters just hang out all day until they pull a child from a burning building. At the end of the shift, they take their uniforms off and go back to being anonymous.

The problem with the office worker story, and why it would go over poorly is because it's really such a new concept and doesn't work well with the epic. Paperwork is almost always involved with "stuff." You have paperwork for money, your house, your car, insurance... pretty much all things that were of no matter in ancient Greece, unless it was for a message. In those times, you had what you had, and your things and property were either on your person, in your house or in your hometown. You fought to not only defend your country, but literally everything you own, since if you lost, you'd have everything, including your wife taken.

Because of the society we're in, the office worker with a family is already bound by obligation. He can't just go out to go adventuring, because that doesn't pay the bills. It would be viewed as irresponsible on a number of levels, and would really show how poor the heroes character is.