A lack of confrontation on TFF

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Originally Posted by Marceil

I think there's already plenty of variety for content on TFF.
I've found it to be comparable to every other forum I've been to.

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Oh yeah here's the dreaded quote button. Agreed for the most part on this one. There is a nice amount of things to discuss on this forum, only area that gets to me is general gaming; to put it bluntly it is to broad and good threads get lost in the rifts of times. I would like to see that area broke into sub forums by genra. Atleast that way thread might go inactive for a few but it is not pushed to far down the list that it is forgetten about.

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So when will the plans for an overhall begin?
Should there be a list of practical changes posted up as a poll so the whole forum can participate?

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More then likely if something like this happened it would go down outside of the general populous of TFF to avoid repatition and spamish responces.

I don't think this site needs a full over haul by anymeans. Maybe just a revamp of some of the different areas. It could easily keep the same formating while expanding on a few areas.

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by Gov
Maybe TFF itself hasn't changed that much. Maybe it's just us. It is nice to see that people are contributing to this thread though.

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Yeah I am glad people are, figured it would of been bypassed and ignored as most things are now adays. But then again the select people that I made mention of in the OP that I was expecting to post here have, the few that are gone for now will probably contribute when they come back. I would really like to see some of the newer members out look on this but more then likely will not. Either they will be to affraid to post in here or to lazy to read all that has been covered or if they do, they will read the last few posts and try to carry on from that point with out a full grasp of what has already been stated. Then again the title of this thread is enough to detour some of the newer members from even looking at this thread.

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Perhaps (and I truly never thought I would say this) Richard Nixon has it right.

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[sarcasm ]When was the real Nixon ever in the wrong?[/end sarcasm]

Simply disagreeing with someone is a good source of confrentation as long as flaming and bad forms of baiting are not used. Tends to spice things up and keep conversations from becoming very one sided.




That tends to happen anyway around here. It could start off as a debate or a discussion, but it doesn't take long before someone comes around and ****'s it up lol, believe me I know. Feelings could get hurt, debates while friendly in the beginning could always end up a flamefest and baiting draws in the other members and mods and pretty soon it becomes the latest scoop on TFF, but once a mod sticks a foot in the door and starts shooting warnings and then close the thread, the debate ends, the scoop of TFF ends, and things become dull once again (not that I'm blaming the mods don't get me wrong).

Yeah confrontation is always good, it draws a crowd, it may even become the thing of epicness until something goes wrong and everything is thrown into disarray. As someone said earlier some high level agruments if possible for flamewar status get stopped and closed before they can start, while I think it is a good thing on one side of the coin, on he other side of the coin it misses a chance for TFF as a whole to come together for it. A Couple years ago I remember when the BOD left TFF, EVERYONE showed up for the drama, while it was epic and dramatic, it also brought even the newbs around for it at the time.

What TFF needs is some events that can draw a crowd (members) both old and new, something that will draw there interest. What about something both old and new members can do together? Or even another dramatic event here on TFF to draw the attention? We need ideas people!

In regards to point 1, I have noticed that some users post in an incorrect format to what the topic creator specified for. Also there are a plethora of posts without substance which detracts from creating an intellectual atmosphere.
With point 2 Meier has placed an obvious point.
While there is not a flurry of activity, in large part due to the lack of new games and/or possibly uninteresting topics.
Meier’s last point is the most interesting. I agree that there is little confrontation especially with new members who do not want to create conflict and to be accepted. This attitude is a perfect representation of how the world behaves – by not standing up for their own beliefs so they can appease everyone. This attitude is most prevalent amongst liberal/left people who are overly sensitive to others. They do not want to offend anyone but at the sacrifice of themselves. A great example is Europe, they would rather sweep the problem under the rug then to face, let the problem be appeased in hopes that it will be solved. This tactic was used preceding World War II by England and France and its reward – World War II and the Holocaust.
Personally I do not care about offending others (in certain situations) or dissenting with others. If I have a view that goes against what someone says I will speak out and defend for what I believe in. Finally, people should begin to stand up for what they believe in for if they go on wanting to please everyone they might as well end their existence for they can never please everyone and the only way not to offend anyone is by not living.

I think Nixon is definitely right. Particularly the part where he says there are only 6 good members left. Or that all the "smart" members have the same political view point, and that only ugly members are left on the forums. I think he makes great, valid points, that are not in the least bit arrogant, biased or alienating, which is in similar fashion to most his posts. I'm sure people can really learn, grow, and better themselves from statements like that. I wish we had more members like him! It would be good if more members couldn't make their points without being insulting to the majority of the forum's populace at the same time! (It would certainly raise the controversy level that Meier Link desires.) Indeed, I think I'm going to pay careful attention to everything that this wonderful member says, from now on! EDIT (as per a friend's suggestion): "I want to be more like him; he is my hero!"

I do agree that he has a point about the majority of us posting in this thread getting older, and Final Fantasy becoming less relevant. That is a good point. Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

Kay, now that I can actually be arsed, I'll make a post.

I agree with Bleachie on the whole types of people there are here. And they're usually in little groups, too, or "cliques" shall we say. And it's kinda gay, really, because this isn't a high school, it's an internet forum. We should all skip along to Happyland and be happy with Candy floss in hand. Oh wow, that rhymed.

Or at least, people should just not jet off everytime they're offended in some way. Stand up for yourself, or ignore it. It's really not that hard. I mean, if this was the real world, then it would be a little more understandable to get upset, but it's not the real world, it's the internet. I think some people in particular need to learn that.

As for confrontation, I agree. Only I think there's a balance needed. Because it's nice for people to be upfront and not be so scared about being offensive, but at the same time, it sucks when a person just flat out doesn't give a shit about someone's feelings and thinks they're being funny because of it. Because sometimes it is not. It's just annoying. So yeah, balance needed there.

I think it would be nice if some people stood up for themselves, or at least got a back bone and didn't worry so much about being offensive. It makes TFF a much funner place to come to. For example, the suicide thread. There's no denying that the debates between Sasquatch and Dr. Egon Spengler were fun to read. It may have gotten a tinsy bit flamey at times, but overall it didn't get too out of hand. If people engaged in these kind of debates more often, then there would be more activity and people might want to come here more often.

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Originally Posted by Richard M. Nixon

In a forum full of younger people, they are not going to cause a lot of controversy. For one, they want to be well liked, and they also have nothing to cause controversy about. After all, where is the controversy in eating Cheerios, listening to rap music, and going to middle school?

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I strongly disagree with that. And it's not because I'm young, but because there are plenty of intelligent teenagers on this forum, ones who can have a much more intellectual discussion than some of the adults here.

As for controversy, someone of fourteen or fifteen years could easily create a good debate, one that adults would engage in. I'm not even fourteen yet and I've done it. We're not as unrelatable and "oooh waahhhhh if i say that no1 will lyk meee!!!11!!" as you say we are.

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Originally Posted by Hellfire

I think Nixon is definitely right. Particularly the part where he says there are only 6 good members left. Or that all the "smart" members have the same political view point, and that only ugly members are left on the forums. I think he makes great, valid points, that are not in the least bit arrogant, biased or alienating, which is in similar fashion to most his posts. I'm sure people can really learn, grow, and better themselves from statements like that. I wish we had more members like him! It would be good if more members couldn't make their points without being insulting to the majority of the forum's populace at the same time! (It would certainly raise the controversy level that Meier Link desires.) Indeed, I think I'm going to pay careful attention to everything that this wonderful member says, from now on! EDIT (as per a friend's suggestion): "I want to be more like him; he is my hero!"

I do agree that he has a point about the majority of us posting in this thread getting older, and Final Fantasy becoming less relevant. That is a good point. Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

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Oh, wit.

Right now I am averaging 1.45 posts a day, and the only reason that is so high is because of my postwhoring days of many years ago. I can only think of one person that I probably "ran off", but it was for the good of the forum. If we really wanted to get to the root of why people flee, we could start with you. I know for a fact that there would be 23 more posts here per day if we did not have to read your inane "Wuv, Yer Mom" ending to each post.

The six members is not permanent. It can change, and it does from time to time. It was seven until a few months ago, so we are due for a rebound.

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Originally Posted by Halie

I strongly disagree with that. And it's not because I'm young, but because there are plenty of intelligent teenagers on this forum, ones who can have a much more intellectual discussion than some of the adults here.

As for controversy, someone of fourteen or fifteen years could easily create a good debate, one that adults would engage in. I'm not even fourteen yet and I've done it. We're not as unrelatable and "oooh waahhhhh if i say that no1 will lyk meee!!!11!!" as you say we are.

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You are right. There are teenagers that are smarter than the "adults" here. Just look at the first post I responded to, for crying out loud. That is not an endorsement of the teenagers, however, but a condemnation of the over-twenty crowd.

What could possibly be stimulating in Intellectual Discussion? I could see a teenager taking a crack at evolution, abortion, religion, and gay marriage, but those of us who used to enjoy debating these issues are mostly passed that.

I am sure you think you are very smart, as all teenagers do, but that does not make it true. In my old age, I realize I know less than I thought I did at your age, although I pretended to know plenty. Again, it is not your fault, because your brain isn't fully developed yet and you are still in a very rudimentary educational system. You might find that insulting, as I surely would have, but you really can't keep up with me, Jin, Heather, or the other various members, at least when it comes to any intellectual discussion.

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Originally Posted by Jay/Victoria

I disagree with the first statement, because it is moot as of this point. It may have been chopped up before, but Andro and I saw the amount of damage it caused to the activity, so we pretty much said "screw that" and went back to how it used to be run.

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That is certainly good news. He used such bizarre logic, and I remember before that occurred club membership was a badge of honor.

It is not entirely hopeless, however. Relatively new members, such as Meier Link, Rocky, and James K. Polk, are interesting. But they too tend to be older, so how much longer can we expect them to contribute?

We are never going to get back to the olden days. The days where I would come home from school and post throughout the afternoon and night. I check this place out of habit, but it comes down to checking for visitor messages and activity in my club, or being drawn in to the random General Chat thread. I remember how excited I was when Final Fantasy X comes out. Does anyone really care as much about the next installment?

Here's some confrontation for ya.
Some TFFers (older ones half the time) are too damn proud. I notice they're prone to underestimating other members and in some cases are downright scathing with their usage of derogative comments and at times unwholesome forum tactics.

So what if you listen to some particular rare music or appreciate British humour on the level of a transcendent being? So the **** what if you're a Uni student or are highly qualified? I for one don't give half a flying **** if you feel your political opinion is the be all and end all and feel that many of those who see themselves as some kind of intellectual often have horribly flawed opinions that shine through more than the half polished area on a piece of old silver. What some people feel makes them superior to others really doesn't mean shit most of the time. Yeah, you might have an opinion and a perspective, but so does everyone else. I'm an overly proud arrogant bastard myself half of the time, but even I feel at times that some people need to remove whatever 5 foot long object they have somehow managed to stuff up their anus.

I'll say that there might be just six people on this forum who I see as fresh and worthy of listening to. But it ain't any of those who are sitting stagnant on their own lists.

Not to derail the intellectual post train (but I am, because I'm KEEPING IT REAL), it's just pretty neat that people could really take a good chunk out of their time just by reading or writing one post in this thread. Most people could have made 5+ good-sized posts in that time elsewhere. I bet you guys don't have all that much free time, so this is sorta like putting all your eggs in one basket.

And leaving them to rot. Because no one living outside Vet Land will post here. Discuss physics and free will, Sartre, or help me with my homework instead, you smart devils! :(

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Originally Posted by Silver

Here's some confrontation for ya.
Some TFFers (older ones half the time) are too damn proud. I notice they're prone to underestimating other members and in some cases are downright scathing with their usage of derogative comments and at times unwholesome forum tactics.

So what if you listen to some particular rare music or appreciate British humour on the level of a transcendent being? So the **** what if you're a Uni student or are highly qualified? I for one don't give half a flying **** if you feel your political opinion is the be all and end all and feel that many of those who see themselves as some kind of intellectual often have horribly flawed opinions that shine through more than the half polished area on a piece of old silver. What some people feel makes them superior to others really doesn't mean shit most of the time. Yeah, you might have an opinion and a perspective, but so does everyone else. I'm an overly proud arrogant bastard myself half of the time, but even I feel at times that some people need to remove whatever 5 foot long object they have somehow managed to stuff up their anus.

I'll say that there might be just six people on this forum who I see as fresh and worthy of listening to. But it ain't any of those who are sitting stagnant on their own lists.

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This post has confused me, I admit.

Most people think their political opinion is the be all and end all, because they believe in it and in arguments will fight for it. Being qualified in something does give you an advantage - a mechanic is better than me at cars by a long shot because he/she has studied the mechanics of how those machines work. If I could drive and my car broke down, I'd be useless. I freely admit that. In the same way, I know more than the mechanic about history, politics and the evolution of the French language because I have been studying them for years. If the mechanic keeps himself up to date with current events and has a political opinion, we may be able to debate while he fixes my car, but it would be stupid to deny that I would go in with an advantage. I might not win, but I'd be starting from a better point as I have devoted my time to these things in a way he has not. I know I am a highly opinionated person, and often patronising, but I would sincerely hope that he'd still use his knowledge to repair my car because I could not.

Neither of my parents have any formal qualifications whatsoever, but they are two of the smartest people I know. My mother left school at 15 and ten years later was one of the first female computer programmers working for the Ministry of Defence. My dad, ****, I don't even know if he went to school at all, but he's a Class F steeplejack and scaffolder now (he put the little light on top of Canary Wharf!).

But 'get the stick out of their arse', do you actually mean that people should submit to others in debates? That is not going to happen. This is the internet. People are going to fight their corner.

'What some people feel makes them superior doesn't mean jack shit most of the time.' Of course it doesn't. There are some people on here whose life experience I accept as meaning that they have a more mature outlook than mine (notably Sasquatch for his service), but apart from that, I don't really know what you're saying here. Frequently you insinuate that your job as a security guard is better than my going to university. Does that make you feel superior? If so, and please don't get upset by this, but I think that that is jack shit.

I disagree with you 'not giving a flying ****'. You seem to have worked yourself up a little here, and since I'm assuming that I'm one of the people you're talking about, I find that strange.

But I will admit, it's nice to see that Meier's thread about confrontation is generating that very same thing. At the same time, however, I'd like to suggest that maybe we make a thread called 'A Lack of Cohesion on TFF' and see if the results we get from that would be any more constructive.

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Originally Posted by Govinda

This post has confused me, I admit.

Most people think their political opinion is the be all and end all, because they believe in it and in arguments will fight for it. Being qualified in something does give you an advantage - a mechanic is better than me at cars by a long shot because he/she has studied the mechanics of how those machines work. If I could drive and my car broke down, I'd be useless. I freely admit that. In the same way, I know more than the mechanic about history, politics and the evolution of the French language because I have been studying them for years. If the mechanic keeps himself up to date with current events and has a political opinion, we may be able to debate while he fixes my car, but it would be stupid to deny that I would go in with an advantage. I might not win, but I'd be starting from a better point as I have devoted my time to these things in a way he has not. I know I am a highly opinionated person, and often patronising, but I would sincerely hope that he'd still use his knowledge to repair my car because I could not.

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See, now that's constructive. What if you needed your car fixed though and he made a snide remark before exiting the picture without aiding you? I've seen that scenario a few times here.

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Neither of my parents have any formal qualifications whatsoever, but they are two of the smartest people I know. My mother left school at 15 and ten years later was one of the first female computer programmers working for the Ministry of Defence. My dad, ****, I don't even know if he went to school at all, but he's a Class F steeplejack and scaffolder now (he put the little light on top of Canary Wharf!).

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I also lack any formal qualifications and am making a grand and a half a week. And that's exactly why I feel those who see themselves as superior often aren't. There's more than one path to the end prize.

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But 'get the stick out of their arse', do you actually mean that people should submit to others in debates? That is not going to happen. This is the internet. People are going to fight their corner.

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No, I mean some people should cut the acting superior bullshit. Considering these 'teenagers' aren't even a decade behind the older ones and have most if not all of their forced schooling, I don't really think it matters too much. Submitting to others easily ain't the way as it kills off part of the individual. Like this Zargy guy. I get the feeling he's trying to bug me or someone else through necroposting a lot of the more angry threads, but I live for that shit. It's a good deal more fun than simply reading some of the same old threads. Oh I'll admit a good deal of it is stupid, but then a lot of stupid things are fun.

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'What some people feel makes them superior doesn't mean jack shit most of the time.' Of course it doesn't. There are some people on here whose life experience I accept as meaning that they have a more mature outlook than mine (notably Sasquatch for his service), but apart from that, I don't really know what you're saying here. Frequently you insinuate that your job as a security guard is better than my going to university. Does that make you feel superior? If so, and please don't get upset by this, but I think that that is jack shit.

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No, I haven't insinuated my job is better than your education. I've merely shown that an uneducated ruffian like myself can still get by comfortably and with style. I have fine cigars (including cubans as unlike the US their import isn't restricted here :) ), fine wine, the greatest cheeses etc, it's really more than I could ever have dreamed of. I don't see myself as better than anyone in any way like this, though I do consider myself a lot better than many on some occasions when they feel the need to act superior to others and just plain generally ass-holey. And that's just sad as I'm a real asshole myself half the time. If I feel anyone is all that much more worse than myself, they're pretty ****ing bad.

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I disagree with you 'not giving a flying ****'. You seem to have worked yourself up a little here, and since I'm assuming that I'm one of the people you're talking about, I find that strange.

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Or I could be using more emotive words because my freight delivered 12 bottles of bronze grade or higher wines decided to drop on by. Expect me to act like this for a couple days or perhaps forever if I decide to buy wine at a constant rate. And believe it or not, you're not even in the top three I'm talking about. But one or two of my comments might actually apply to you directly. If you could pick them out, maybe you realise there's truth to some of my words concerning you? I admit to being an ass at times, but a lot of the time I notice people can't admit the same thing too easily. Rest assured that I couldn't really give a **** as I'm not usually targetted too often and even if I was, chances are I'd just ignore you or have fun bringing it under the public's eyes.

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But I will admit, it's nice to see that Meier's thread about confrontation is generating that very same thing. At the same time, however, I'd like to suggest that maybe we make a thread called 'A Lack of Cohesion on TFF' and see if the results we get from that would be any more constructive.

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Meier is easily one of the best members here and I think that any thread he makes will be worth reading. On that note, since he hasn't made such a thread I think it might possibly flop. Cheers and good bye, I must get ready to piss off for work.

Well, I think we have figured it out.

My initial post has led to seven replies (Jay's rebuttal about clubs, Govinda's observation about my post, Hellfire's attempt at snarkiness, my reply to said snarkiness, Silver's diatribe into the wind, Govinda's reply, and Silver's reply to the reply). It is safe to say that by not lying to people, I have jumpstarted TFF. At the very least, I should be commended, and realistically, I should be made admin.

Silver, you need to read my posts better. My list is not stagnant; I mentioned how it used to be seven, but now it is six!

I am not particularly proud of anything. I haven't even graduated college yet, so what would I have to self congratulate myself on? But the problem with being intelligent is that only other intelligent people understand the plight. That is why Heather and I shoot the breeze so often.

It is a bit like being black. I have no idea what they are going through, but the difference is that I don't attempt to say I understand their world.

I left TFF. I didn't. But I did. I disappeared thinking that either the three or four people I missed would come back. Or that the fifty or so people I left would stand up and fill their empty spaces. Neither of those happy occasions came to be. And so I waited and watched.

This place isn't active. I won't say it's for want of drama. This place never failed to generate it's own drama and indeed, drama isn't interesting to me.

It may be for want of character. No real RPs are going that people will participate in continuously. No real new ideas for threads are going. When people do get ideas for threads they forget about them or fail to post.

But mostly... I'm too tired to discuss the 750 billion topics I've discussed on this board, all over again with new people. Even though I'm Taoist, I don't have the patience for that. I saw the Suicide thread come up again... I saw, rather than old people discussing new topics, I see new people discussing old topics...and that...is just disheartening. The ten or twelve people I do know that have stayed...I don't understand how you guys put up with it...

Peace,
-Sin

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Originally Posted by Richard M. Nixon

Well, I think we have figured it out.

My initial post has led to seven replies (Jay's rebuttal about clubs, Govinda's observation about my post, Hellfire's attempt at snarkiness, my reply to said snarkiness, Silver's diatribe into the wind, Govinda's reply, and Silver's reply to the reply). It is safe to say that by not lying to people, I have jumpstarted TFF. At the very least, I should be commended, and realistically, I should be made admin.

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Oh, diatribe to the wind, ****ing ouch. I'm guessing you read it of course but choose to troll in your tedious little fashion rather than attack my words directly. Big man.

The day you become admin is the day I'll leave TFF.

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Silver, you need to read my posts better. My list is not stagnant; I mentioned how it used to be seven, but now it is six!

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It's not your list I find stagnant. It's you and likely several on your list. Always acting the same, your words rife with condescension when you yourself hardly seem anything noteworthy. Or am I wrong? You don't seem to be anybody worth noting.

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I am not particularly proud of anything. I haven't even graduated college yet, so what would I have to self congratulate myself on? But the problem with being intelligent is that only other intelligent people understand the plight. That is why Heather and I shoot the breeze so often.

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I don't think intellect is your plight. I'd be more inclined to think your perceived intellect is your plight in that it closes your mind to other possibilities. That causes you to become just another stagnant individual just like the old foggies convinced that their truth is the truth. And they're just sad.

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It is a bit like being black. I have no idea what they are going through, but the difference is that I don't attempt to say I understand their world.

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Being an ass has nothing to do with skin colour. Like a few things it goes beyond factors such as race, gender and cultural beliefs. Though I'll happily admit in some cases a group with similar views can be a pack of asses.

I as an old poster no longer say much anymore is because there's not really much to be commented on. A lot of the time its just recycled threads we discussed years ago our if I do try to have a little fun it gets ignored our even worse I get warned or something equally as pathetic.

The old ID forum was fun, back with the constant threads debating Christianity and politics that ended up in a huge essay like posts bringing up a lot of interesting points and arguments. That no longer happens anymore, I sift through GC and its mostly full of rubbish threads with article links and the same retarded repetitive comments every bodies heard a million times before.

The game forums are boring as hell, don't get me wrong I could discuss WoW for pages and pages but there is simply no comunity for it here. I don't play much other games to really respond on them. All the FF related topics are just recycled, I sometimes get the motivation to start one but never get around to it. I also watch anime but its different and really don't have much to say on it so I just make the odd post saying what I've recently watched.

I'm going to be honest and admit I don't like much of the new people here and I rather dislike the new generation of Final Fantasy fanbois. Final Fantasy was my childhood but these people are not the same kids I grew up with. I guess it's common amongst all generations but this new generation sucks. I grew up with people like the old crowd of these forums and I can related to them much easier.

If I don't like somebody I won't directly tell them as I'd rather play games with them and test them. I know how trolling works but most people do not understand it in the slightest and get the wrong impression coincidently accusing the trolled as being the trolls. I do consider myself to be a troll BUT I only target other trolls. Most of my trolling however is not done on these forums but I can smell all the ones on this forum from a mile away but most of them are only successful because most people do not even understand it.

Oh Angie...

I can call you Angie, right?
I know exactly how you work and I'll feel free to call you on it directly. Right here, right now. I mean MSN is a better place for it, but since you're not the kind who can reply to someone on MSN I figure I'll call you on it here where you might feel some small need to save face.

Yes, I went out with the girl you liked. I didn't know you liked her at the time, but either way, get over it. In the words of another I'm talking with on MSN who also saw this post:
"So cry me a river.. build a bridge.. and get over it".

Oh and this bit:

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Originally Posted by Angie

I do consider myself to be a troll BUT I only target other trolls.

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Total bullshit. You targetted someone in her own leaving thread who hadn't trolled you in the slightest. Unlike you and myself though, she really doesn't give a shit.
And the only reason I care is the past we had. All those chats on MSN and the like.
But you know, **** it. You're not worth any more of my time after this post.

Um.... what the ****? Haha I am at a loss.

Could we please stay on the topic of talking about ourselves and how we think people on forums perceive us? I mean, that's what we're talking about, right?

Seriously, though? Take it to PM. This is so not the place for all that.

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Originally Posted by OceanEyes28

Um.... what the ****? Haha I am at a loss.

Could we please stay on the topic of talking about ourselves and how we think people on forums perceive us? I mean, that's what we're talking about, right?

Seriously, though? Take it to PM. This is so not the place for all that.

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Not to sound rude Ally but this IS the place for it. I mean this is what the thread is about: A Lack of Confrontation, which just that little debate is part of this topic. I'm not trying to get on the mods or "S-Mods" cases but this is partly the reason TFF is in the shape its in already. Let me reshape what I said: What I mean is that the instant an agrument starts up one of the mods shows up and stops it before it starts. This is what Meier was talking about. While stopping it can be effective and good, the other half of this is that your doing more damage then the agrument taking place. Silver and **&* are confronting each other, that's partly the point of the thread.

And also, PMing serves no real purpose here. I mean who really PM's anymore? If its not in a thread then its obviously in VM's, that way we all can see for ourselves the state TFF is in, can't we not?

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Originally Posted by Angie
I do consider myself to be a troll BUT I only target other trolls.


Noted for truth. I won't bring up my past incidents with you on you trolling me, but hey, you just updated what I wanted to know for awhile, thank you:roll:

Phantom, I'm talking about Silver bringing up shit with Winter and Ann. That's not what this thread is about. Or are you saying we should just cat fight all across the forum? What, you don't get enough of that on MSN?

This is a Final Fantasy forum, not drama club. I'm on staff because I understand that.

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Originally Posted by OceanEyes28

Phantom, I'm talking about Silver bringing up shit with Winter and Ann. That's not what this thread is about. Or are you saying we should just cat fight all across the forum? What, you don't get enough of that on MSN?

This is a Final Fantasy forum, not drama club. I'm on staff because I understand that.

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It's true that Nathan calling out Winter was not in the right, and no I'm not saying that we should just "cat fight" across the forum, so I'm sorry if I made it sound like that, also that was just a little piece of confrontation if you noticed:lol:. Ally, I won't perceive how you think most people on MSN behave, but you obviously have no idea how I roll on MSN, heh at most I hardly chat at all on MSN but hey this IS the internet isn't it? You know? Freedom of Speech and what not?


This is a Final Fantasy forum, not drama club. I'm on staff because I understand that.

I can read, so I can see this is a FF forum, however, and I mean however TFF seems to be much more then any of the boring plain FF alone forums out here on the net, I mean Role playing, Journals, General Chat, ID Forum, and hell even the spammed out Humor and Word Games Forum are like little itsy bitsy pieces of a drama club if you think about it, each with it's on sense of the word "drama", you being on the staff I would think you saw through that much.

I'm on staff because I understand that


Since I know that TFF is a FF forum couldn't I be on staff if I knew that much? There's no need to act all high and mighty just because you think you rate abit higher then the members here. Everybody knows this is a FF forum, if not we would probarly be blind, yes? But after debate after debate here TFF has become more then just a simple FF forum, its more like a hubbed myspace/facebook minus the shoutbox, so you can't say drama doesn't take place here.

Well, drama is a part of life. There's no way around it, no matter how hard you try to avoid it. You can avoid it on forums, but it doesn't make things fun or solvable. Half the time, I don't think people do take it into PMs, therefore, leaves most problems unsolved and then a constant "person 1" vs "person 2" continues. When it gets out of hand with petty insults, then that's when you need to grow the hell up(and when the mods should step in).

Also, it's always been a rule on the forums to not be off topic in threads. Otherwise, you're being no better than noobs that spam the crap out of the boards.

I agree with Ally that those two should take it up elsewhere, but then I agree with Phantom that you can't ignore or avoid the drama on these boards.(edit: unless you're already not apart of it.. or just leave TFF, of course.)

The easiest way to avoid the stupid bullshit drama is simply not to get caught up in it. Drama is almost always an incident between two people, that more often than not stems from some kind of misunderstanding or some other such bullshit.

Being that this is a public forum, we do wind up making friends. However, sometimes when one friend is offended, we take it to an extreme and wind up throwing gas on the fire. Soon enough simple misunderstandings become just plain retarded because someone doesn't understand someone else's sense of humor or whatnot.

The fact of the matter is that we all just have to mind our own business a little more and grow the **** up a lot more.

Wow, S got completely ignored...

I'm going to keep it simple stupid, as I'd rather be asleep in my chair right now. Yell at me for not keeping it in Int. Dis. format if you want to. I really just don't care anymore. I am too old and too busy for that pettiness. Yes, asleep in chair means I'm busy! =D

1. We need confrontation. We need [insert random hot topic].

What I don't understand is why there is always a thread made about what we need, rather than people just moving forward and enacting it. I don't need to check in with anyone to start posting how and what I want to. I just post and it takes or is ignored. That's the way it should be. The hell with this committee mindedness. We need self mindedness- personalities. Stop checking in with everyone else on how to be a person. You might have fun.

(Science... why did I post in here? I should just go make some random topic in stead. I should take my own advice.)

2. I like a lot of the people who are mods, but I disagree with how they enact the rules and some portions of the rules. Things DO need to lighten up. I'm sick of this spam assassin attitude and the idea to nip everything in the bud. Many of the members may still be in high school, but that's no reason to run it like one. I know that is the last kind of place I want to spend my spare time. Let everyone have their one liners (Science bless SAM in days of past for his beautiful one liners!); it's healthy. Let things roam off topic as long as it doesn't go into digging up dirt between people or flaming. Some of the best conversations I've had in my life have been tangents of tangents of tangents of tangents. That's how people work to learn more about others and themselves. Going off topic is the natural way of conversation.

5. I question how much saying forums are dead detours new members. I think the apparently humongous stick up our asses might be scaring them away. I don't think most newbs are that kinky.

A. If individuals are worried about how much people's feelings are hurt, why not make your own support group or be support for those that need it? Teach them how to deal with negative emotions rather than calling for a lockdown. Maybe teach people when and how to use the report button and when to escalate. Don't leave it up to the mods or someone to explain once things get out of hand and people blow up and have "I'm Leaving!!1111!!!111" threads. If you have a concern, you do something about it. Make the place "better" of your own accord.

R. Have some fub. Don't leave silliness to a few select threads or the dreaded Word Games. Throw some humor into everything.

L. I think things were more fun when the EBG and other clans were still alive. Not for the RP sake, but for the sake of belonging. Plus, the videos, pies, and hijinks are still unparalleled today. Also, I loved the making fun of people. Healthy ribbing.

I consider clans to go beyond clubs as it includes people with more diversity than sharing one similar interest or parameter.

***Sarah's bottom line: If you think something needs to be done, do something! Don't post threads calling for others to do this or that. Don't ask others. As long as you don't overstep your boundaries, do it yourself. Lead by example. People will pick up on it eventually. If not, **** em. Keep doing it, anyway.

So much for KISS. I can never make a short post regardless of effort. I sleep now!

OceanEyes I have to confront you with something: You really remind me of my mother, I swear I read that post and that's the first thing that came to mind. Take it as you will.

As a general rule of thumb people are stupid: assume somebody is stupid before you say anything to them. Most of the time they will be and by doing this you essentially solve a lot of problems for later on and if they're not stupid your assumptions will not be wasted.

Confrontation is only worthwhile if you can achieve positive results from it. If you confront somebody knowing they're going to be pissed off at you it is best to not bother unless of course that's what you were trying to achieve. If you think there is something worthwhile to you that can be achieved by such then yes it works.

The Brotherhood of Doom is a perfect example of what a lack of confrontation can do. We by now the smods wanted it gone but for whatever reason chose not to. We knew it, we knew TFF was essentially dead to us and we pretty much knew where the events would lead to. But did that stop them? Rather that kick us nah they had to play stupid little games, yeah we joined in attempt to have a little fun and we were dicked around then eventually lost. I never participated in the event, I didn't want to see us gone from here but what more could you do?

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Originally Posted by Sarah

If individuals are worried about how much people's feelings are hurt, why not make your own support group or be support for those that need it? Teach them how to deal with negative emotions rather than calling for a lockdown. Maybe teach people when and how to use the report button and when to escalate. Don't leave it up to the mods or someone to explain once things get out of hand and people blow up and have "I'm Leaving!!1111!!!111" threads. If you have a concern, you do something about it. Make the place "better" of your own accord.

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That seems like a good idea. We could have our own little "Psychologist group" :lol:. It could be a little bit like mods, only mods are the police are these are the doctors/psychiatrists. And obviously the mods will have power and these guys won't. It might be kind of fun and helpful.

We could get a bunch of people to volunteer for it, I know I would.

Oh no here i go..

Ok main problem i see on this forum is that the mods ARENT doing their jobs to their full potential.

I see dumbass post after dumbass post after dumbass post, which lets face it is just spam attempts at raising their post counts. What can be done about this? its simple really, you delete the post.. warn the member via pm if he makes another stupid post or two after that then you ban him. Now i know thats what you guys eventually might do but, you need to be more harsh and quick with it.

What does the above do? well it gets rid of the idiots and gives new intelligent/fun members hope that they are not surrounded by idiots and they come back, thus increasing the members and nurturing the sophisticated presence here at TFF.

So in my eyes its just mods priorities are out of whack, they should be extra lenient on new members and less hastey to lock threads that are getting a big too heated. The only fun topics i see only end up locked. And dont be all /cryface over banning new members, they can just open a new account and try again.

I come on here now these days to mock these tarded members and try and find an interesting post, not many about these days. Probably deleted or closed ;P

Now all due respect to the mods, i dont mean this to be an attack. I know your just following rules and protocols, main reason i left my super mod role was a result of lame rules getting introduced ;)

And how dare you all ignore the mighty Soldier #819 ! :blowtop:

Oh and if im breaching some sort of forum guideline rule, than all i can say is kiss my ass..

So many posts to read and to agree and disagree with but i will base my post on Meier's original message.

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I have been noticing a trend on TFF and that is that daily user activity is steadily dropping, older members are leaving and registrations are dropping also. I can see this being caused by a few different factors.

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I don't know what it used to be like but every time i log on i see a new member/s but that's not saying they are active. Very few new registrations have i seen that have been active since i have been a member and even then they tend to be in the 15-19 age gap and only interested in spamming or the humor/word games, i admit i am guilty for regular posts in these parts of the forums but i treat this forum as an escape from the real world and try to stay away from the more serious matters in this forum but every now and again i like to add my two bobs worth. I do come here quite often looking for new material and sometimes i am disappointed to find none at all but that just me and my interests that's not to say there is nothing happening at all just nothing that interest me.

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2: New releases to the FF universe are few and far between. I can see this problem resolving itself as XIII and all of its spin off drawing closer to its release date.

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That is true new games will bring more activity and new topics etc but to fully resolve this problem they would have to make game after game after game etc once XIII is released and it spin offs as you put it are as well then the material and topics for it will eventually wear off as some of the others have. I can't say much because i have only played few titles myself and even so they were a long time before a became a member here but any new topic although they relate to the game are usually repeated topics or similar.

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3: People bitching saying the “forum is dead” in multiple threads, this contributes to possible new members being turned away, and instills a thought into everyone’s head that it might be true. This forum is not dead by any means. Sure the post counts have dropped but this site is still active and has a good chance for full recovery and them some. Try visiting some of the other FF forums out there. I mod on 2 different ones and they have an average post count of 3-4 a month.

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I agree this forum is far from dead and that's coming from a noob but... like i said before very few new members are active and even then the concentrate their activity in the humor/word games section but that's not a bad thing but there is rarely new activity in the ID section for example until a few weeks ago, the main stem of the activity is from existing members and even they are rarely on, but since i have been a member i have noticed the moderators and admin increase their activity. As for myself i try to stay as active as possible and will try to for as long as i can but in the end real life situations occur preventing people from staying active like kids etc or relationships and eventually we will leave maybe to reappear through out life.

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4: A severe lack of confrontation.

I will expand on number four seeing I think this could be one of the larger factors as to why activity has dropped.

Out side of a few members of this forum, there is very little controversy. People are more adamant to please then upset another member in fear that they might become “unliked” among the other users. They will quickly agree even if they don’t fully agree with what is being said instead of expanding on the differences in opinions.

Any other forms of confrontation are also shut down quickly and discarded making things very one sided. There have been multiple attempts to try and start some kinds of controversy and they all are dismissed in the blink of an eye.

To me this draws away from the fun that could be had at a forum and basically makes every one out to be clones. The responses I have seen lately in the forum are generic responses from fan boys that too are one sided and leave no room for discussion or debate.

Also I have noticed that when someone says something that is deemed “out of line” they are shot down and treated as an outcast by not only staff (at times) but also other forum members. I find this ridiculous. What is the point in having a discussion on a topic if a person can’t freely express their selves to the fullest degree???

With a tight rope there is little room for fun to be had, and isn’t that part of the reason that people come to this forum is to get away for a little while and have some fun? I know it is part of the reason that I come here myself, even though I find myself starting to lurk more often.

Now before this is taken the wrong way; I am not saying that people should be allowed to fight amongst the forum and if you have taken it that way you are incorrect. I am just saying that certain types of confrentation can be good, they can incite conversation, intrest, and all together raise daily posting of members.

It has been a while since I have seen a thread that actually sparked a heated debate amonst members, with the exception a very very limited few.
Most of what I have seen as of late are either lame spamming attempts, post whoring, or fan boyisims.

So I will stop my rant now because I want to see some of the others opinions before I carry on any further.

So please, discuss.

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I agree with this but i am a culprit for lack of confrontation and will be contradicting myself here. I am not a man of confrontation i don't like i try to avoid it as much as possible whether it be debating or a healthy argument of opinions. I am a yes ma'am three bags full ma'am kind of guy i go with the wind and am withdrawn most of the time but this is now where i am going to contradict myself. The whole existence of man has evolved around confrontations whether it be religion, power, money, opinions etc but it is good to have good confrontation to see peoples perspectives and opinions on certain topics and to interact with each other but it can go over board, which it shouldn't but there are those sort of people around.

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Originally Posted by Meier Link

4: A severe lack of confrontation.

Out side of a few members of this forum, there is very little controversy. People are more adamant to please then upset another member in fear that they might become “unliked” among the other users. They will quickly agree even if they don’t fully agree with what is being said instead of expanding on the differences in opinions.

Any other forms of confrontation are also shut down quickly and discarded making things very one sided. There have been multiple attempts to try and start some kinds of controversy and they all are dismissed in the blink of an eye.

To me this draws away from the fun that could be had at a forum and basically makes every one out to be clones. The responses I have seen lately in the forum are generic responses from fan boys that too are one sided and leave no room for discussion or debate.

Also I have noticed that when someone says something that is deemed “out of line” they are shot down and treated as an outcast by not only staff (at times) but also other forum members. I find this ridiculous. What is the point in having a discussion on a topic if a person can’t freely express their selves to the fullest degree???

With a tight rope there is little room for fun to be had, and isn’t that part of the reason that people come to this forum is to get away for a little while and have some fun? I know it is part of the reason that I come here myself, even though I find myself starting to lurk more often.

Now before this is taken the wrong way; I am not saying that people should be allowed to fight amongst the forum and if you have taken it that way you are incorrect. I am just saying that certain types of confrentation can be good, they can incite conversation, intrest, and all together raise daily posting of members.

It has been a while since I have seen a thread that actually sparked a heated debate amonst members, with the exception a very very limited few.
Most of what I have seen as of late are either lame spamming attempts, post whoring, or fan boyisims.

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I know first hand what this is like. I blame it on established TFF cliques of a few members who like to think they carry authority simply by making their presence in a thread. I've tried to speak up when I see something I don't agree with. The "Breast Thread" is a prime example.

Sure, I expect to be confronted in a reciprocal manner, but it's when no one even seems to consider another's argument, and dismisses it as "idiotic" or "gay" (quotes). I don't seek to fit in. I seek to explain my own opinions, and defend them if they are attacked. Problem is, no one is willing to make concessions, and their are large groups of prominent members who stand on the same side in so many issues, that holding an alternative opinion is almost social suicide, and is certainly daunting.

It seems the way to be liked by such people is to just agree. I say: what the Hell is the point in that? It's a freaking forum, if we are all going to agree then this place will suck.

Alternative arguments are shut down as soon as they arise - within seconds in fact. I've tried to defend mine, but being outnumbered by a mob does not make it very fun.

I suggest these cliques (and don't pretend you don't know who you are) get off their little high horses and get real. Debate is healthy, interesting, FUN. It is not something to be smothered. Go against the grain, even if you friends disagree with what you are saying. That's the freaking point of this place. Don't assimilate.

Alf.

EDIT: Just realised that this sounds kinda angry. I'm not angry, though a little frustrated in the same vein that Meier is expressing. I like to be challenged on an issue, but not when no one actually takes an alternate opinion seriously.

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Originally Posted by Alpha Weapon

I know first hand what this is like. I blame it on established TFF cliques of a few members who like to think they carry authority simply by making their presence in a thread. I've tried to speak up when I see something I don't agree with. The "Breast Thread" is a prime example.

Sure, I expect to be confronted in a reciprocal manner, but it's when no one even seems to consider another's argument, and dismisses it as "idiotic" or "gay" (quotes). I don't seek to fit in. I seek to explain my own opinions, and defend them if they are attacked. Problem is, no one is willing to make concessions, and their are large groups of prominent members who stand on the same side in so many issues, that holding an alternative opinion is almost social suicide, and is certainly daunting.

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Oh, boo ****ing hoo. You know, I don't have a clique problem or try to say stuff to fit in with the rest of the people. I speak what I feel and that's something I wouldn't say for a lot of people on this forum. And it shows. If you took a poll asking who liked me and who didn't you might get 3 or 4 people. In fact, there is one in the TFF member elimination thread. So when I call you gay, I mean you are being gay.

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It seems the way to be liked by such people is to just agree. I say: what the Hell is the point in that? It's a freaking forum, if we are all going to agree then this place will suck.

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Let me just quote something you said earlier in your post right above this.

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I don't seek to fit in.

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I suggest these cliques (and don't pretend you don't know who you are) get off their little high horses and get real. Debate is healthy, interesting, FUN. It is not something to be smothered. Go against the grain, even if you friends disagree with what you are saying. That's the freaking point of this place. Don't assimilate.

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I think you should get off your high horse and quit complaining that you're such a ****ing crybaby that you feel hurt when people disagree with you. There were plenty of people in the Breast Thread that presented you with arguements so that all I had to do was walk in the thread and hit you where it hurts, which I'm surprised you took so seriously in the first place.

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EDIT: Just realised that this sounds kinda angry. I'm not angry, though a little frustrated in the same vein that Meier is expressing. I like to be challenged on an issue, but not when no one actually takes an alternate opinion seriously.

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I actually agree with what Meier and others are saying in this thread, but the Breast Thread was not it. I admire you more than I admire a lot of other people on the forums, Alpha. Considering the fact that you actually have a personality when compared with most members, I will take it. And I think you'll find that when I post I often do it for the sake of comedy. Whether someone else laughs, or just myself. What would you do if your best friend called you gay while you were chillin out playing videogames? Would you run back to your diary and write that you don't fit in?

I honestly admit that I am a poster who is careful with his words and avoids confrontation. I don't want to come out as rude and I do my best to be respectful to others. It's not that I'm trying to please others or make them like me, people deserve respect whether they disagree with you, dislike you, etc.

Confrontation is good, but not all the time. I think the reason why most people are uncomfortable expressing their opinion is because they fear being put down because of it. Sure, you say get "thicker skin," but it is easier said than done. Can't just say it and the person you are talking to will automatically get it. It takes time and guidance from someone with more experience and understanding. There isn't a lot of reassurance that it is safe when there are people who quote everything you say, nit pick at any error he or she can find, and give bad reputation for whatever reason.

Sure, there will be different opinions and disagreements. I understand that. That's life. The problem now is that they are taken too seriously and often misunderstood. Accept it for what it is; an opinion. If someone quotes you or responds to you with a well though out and supported argument, then that obviously shows he or she values what was said. It is in good taste that you respond back.

:lol: My head is messy with ideas. I think it'll take a while to fully type out what I want to say. Hopefully, this will be good for now. I will be back to add more.

I'm just gonna step in here and tell it like it is. I don't see myself as part of any clique here. I do have my friends here, and I do bullshit with them. I do however enjoy busting people's balls when I feel the need arises.

You do have to realize though that a lot of us older members have all been together and have known each other for years. We're all good friends to begin with. And as immature as it may sound, we do feed off of each others energy in certain posts. I don't necessarily think that we get lenience from the mods. I've gotten my warnings before, and I deserved them. I do have good rapport with most of the mods here though. I mean, it happens when you've been on the boards for longer than pretty much everyone else here.

At the same time, I feel that a lot of us do have the same mindset and outlook on the forums, but that's mostly because we've been on this board for as long as we have, we don't take things as seriously... or seriously at all. I post here because I get bored during the day, and I like to just say what's on my mind. If I see something that just seems off to me, or too liberal OR conservative for my tastes, I'll sound off. It's what I do outside of tff as well. It's nothing personal, it's how I am.