Do you believe the world will end in 2012?

Just to make everybody nice and happy...

I read somewhere once that scientists (specifically, virulogists) are certain that with 99.9% probability a mutating virus will be the end of humankind. I'm not talking birdflu, flu pandemics are another kettle of fish.

...so basically everything everywhere is at one point or another going to try and make our species extinct. Hmm.

These theories are not new though, remember that. There was a massive movement who predicted the end of the world in 1984 and cited Nostradamus and Orwell as their proof. And people actually went for this. Then there was the 2000 fiasco, and the reappearance of Nostradamus. And then the subsequent hiding-in-repeated-shame of Nostradamus.

The Bible End Timers have changed too. In the 1960's, the war which sets off the Rapture in the Book of Revelation was to involve Russia and nukes; these days, it's Israel and nukes. The river of blood high as a horse's bridle shite has remained though. I still find that funny.

Anyway. I've lost all faith in anyone or thing who says that the end of the world is coming. They just change their stories to fit the fears and the climate of their times. The Book of Revelation was written for Christians living under Roman rule; Nostradamus was on shrooms.

It's down to us and us alone. Nothing to do with anything mystical, there's no Mayans, no Jesus involvement (another interesting mutation of the Book of Revelation - these days, the anti-Christ is going to 'rise from his seat in the United Nations'. Srsly.) It's us, our wars, and maybe a few diseases or bits of space rock.

And global warming, though I think everybody's past caring about that now, which is truly truly sad. Besides which, it didn't really matter to me in the first place; of far more human importance are the amount of hyped-up wars which are going to appear as the gas and oil reserves fall ever lower.

The Mayans won't be the end of us, God won't, Eros won't. We will. It's just us, and apathy. I don't know how you feel about that, but I get the feeling that some may read that sentence, nod inwardly, maybe think I'm right. I get the feeling that we, as a species, are resigned to apathy now. I mean, look back at this thread. I've seen quite a few posts which tell us just how shit our species is - and that, in itself, is the hallmark of having given up. People think that we, as a kind, are horrible and worthless. Please don't agree with me. We're worth more than that, and if the attitude doesn't change and people don't start thinking we're worth keeping around, well...yeah, it might all be over by 2012.

But mark my words, the Mayans will have had **** all to do with it. It's just us.

So sorry, I'll take my 50. handgun with special hollow point bullets to my temple and go for a trip before I succumb to an airborn Ebola. All other viruses I'd fight as the Tao would dictate. Bird flu(**** you) Sars can kiss my arse. But not Ebola..no, no. First comes that sharp headache, then that fever. Then you melt and hemorhage for the rest of your short life. Just not for me. Personally, I liked my Eros-magnetic-pole-changing-kicking-global-warming-in-to-high theory best. Or it could just ****ing hit the Earth.

Or your favorite Gov, maybe that secret Russian dirty boat will blow covering the world in a miasma of gamma radiation. Maybe yellowstone will blow and the world will freeze to death. This is fun but it's rather like playing darts. Tao only knows...

-Sin

I can't be one to say if the world will end in 2012. I can't tell the future, I don't have the power to. Now I can sit and worry about what others believe will happen, or I can start preparing myself for something others tell me. Or I can just carry on living the same life I always have.

I really just can't be bothered to sit and think about when the world will end or how it ends. It's sort of like trying to figure out how the world BEGUN. No one really knows how the world started to begin with, so how are we so sure we know how its going to finish? I think maybe there have been a few predictions in the past that coincidentally appear to have happened in the future, but I really wouldn't believe everything that is said.

I think the only time the world will officially be destroyed is when the sun expands, or an epidemic similar to "28 Days Later" occurs. But really, I just don’t care for this sort of thing. If the world ends tomorrow, I doubt anyone would be alive to give a toss. Unless there is scientific fact that the world will be ending in my lifetime, I have nothing to worry about.

i really dont think it will be some super virus that will kill man kind, take the plauge for instance im sure the people suffering from that though the world was going to end, but it didnt we adapted and changed ways of living yadda yadda yadda, now lets take a look at the common cold it use to kill people by the thousands and lets not talk about the flu, cancer (which is curible in most cases if caught early enough), all sorts of STD's, and staf infections but all in all we are still here...

and if there was some kind of super virus im sure that we could always resort to some super bubbles like in FF spirits within to keep us isolated.

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Originally Posted by Meier Link

i really dont think it will be some super virus that will kill man kind, take the plauge for instance im sure the people suffering from that though the world was going to end, but it didnt we adapted and changed ways of living yadda yadda yadda, now lets take a look at the common cold it use to kill people by the thousands and lets not talk about the flu, cancer (which is curible in most cases if caught early enough), all sorts of STD's, and staf infections but all in all we are still here...

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For many people that had the plague, they had about a 60% chance of dying once they had it. It wasn't a virus that was air born or was in something that we ate, it was a virus carried by a flea on the back of rats. In the days of the plague, there were plenty of rats around, so yes a lot of people did get infected. And how was the plague dealt with? People were often trapped in their homes left to die, many of the infected were put in hospitals specially built for plague victims, again, left to die. Areas of the city were closed off because so many people were infected, and people were asked to stay in their homes. This meant that even if you were well and someone in your home was ill, you just had to stay inside with them. I remember reading a story once when I was younger, about a girl who had left a part of her town for a day or two to visit a relative, and came home to find her town completely cut off, with a small wall around it, and guards dotted about it. When she asked what was going on, the guards told her she wasn't allowed into the town because their were a lot of infected people. She asked if all the uninfected people had been evacuated, and the guard said no, they would be left to die also. Situations like the above happened extremely often. The plague took about 100,00 people, which was a lot of people for that time.

The common cold still does kill a lot of elderly people, and it will continue to, because there is no cure for it. STD’s have never been deadly. Yes many people with Aids die, but they don’t die from Aids itself. HIV and Aids break down the immune system so that there is nothing left, and when the body is infected with a virus, there is nothing to fight the virus off, so the sufferer eventually dies. I’m ignoring cancer because it’s not a contagious virus.

Even if there was a virus that could wipe out the whole of the planet, I highly doubt anyone could keep that kind of thing under control. They would never be able to cut off the infected completely without having a few infected people slip by. Can you imagine if there was a breakout in America? Or there were cases of a deadly virus reported in France? All surrounding countries would become infected too.

I still think a virus is a possibility that will end mankind.

Well, for sure its a possibility. But its highly unlikely. My reason is, with the advances of medicine and science as a whole, we'll definitely be able to fight off any virus. However, at some stage where the planet may become overpopulated, i wouldn't be surprised if a deadly epidemic was purposely released to kill some.

The human body is an iron armor. What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger...

There has been talk of a virus evolving beyond our medicine, and its likely.

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Originally Posted by Nick

My reason is, with the advances of medicine and science as a whole, we'll definitely be able to fight off any virus.

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We can't cure things we have known about forever. Take the recent staph infection outbreak. Though isolated, that has been a major issue.

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Originally Posted by Nick

As for the collision with andromeda, i doubt thats actually true. Spectrometers have proven, or i learned it weird, that the galaxies originally evolved from a point, and have each moved their separate ways since in a linear path. So how could they collide? I'm intrigued man, explain that..

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I really don't understand the physics of it, so let me give the best example I can think of.

There is no center of the universe, as I understand. While everything in a galaxy revolves around a certain point, galaxies themselves don't revolve around anything in particular, although they move at 600 kilometers per second. The galaxies do not move out in a flat pattern, because it is theorized that the universe is round, meaning if you traveled enough one way you would return, like Earth. Although expanding, these galaxies would move sort of like plates here on Earth, and you know what happens when plates collide.

There is an example of galaxies colliding. The Antennae Galaxies collided about a billion years ago, and they are still colliding. In the future, they are going to combine completely to have a common nucleus, thus becoming one galaxy.

Think of bumper cars. If the ring expanded while you were driving, you are still likely to hit someone.

Some of this is me talking out of my ass, but most of this is source based.

When they say "galaxies colliding" they don't mean they physically crash into each other and blow up. Galaxies are composed of stars light years apart, possibly with their own respective planets. To get a good idea of how likely it is that two stars would actually collide, have you and your friend stand on beaches on opposite sides of the globe. Each of you will toss exactly one grain of sand as hard as you can in any direction. The odds of those two grains of sand colliding is only slightly smaller than the odds of two stars from different galaxies colliding.

When they say collide, it just means that they basically come close enough for their gravitational forces to interact with one another. As El Wray said, this will probably bring them to form one even larger galaxy with an even larger center of mass. Either that or the two galaxies will just pass through each other without too much interaction.

Though, the way i learned things in my physics class, Galaxies only pull apart from each other, and the universe never ceases to expand. The whole universe being round is quite difficult to accept. I may be wrong, and i probably should research this. However, Einstein stated somewhere in his relativity theorem; which by the way, isn't even accepted fully yet, that the Universe is but a endlessly enlarging system. Its interior is vast, and continues to increase over time, having galaxies propelled from one initial point "Big Bang". The Universe being a huge space, ceaselessly expanding its borders.

Those borders, having what is called negligable exteriors. Because as Einstein explains, during science, the system is key, not the surrounding.

I don't know about it, because El Wray explains it extremely well, but i learnt it this way.....

You've never heard the closed-end theory? Once the big bang explodes it's all going to collect and do it over again. Anyone with a simple grasp of physics can tell you that. What does gravity do? It attracts. Now you have a bunch of things floating in space with gravity Including black holes. They're obviously going to over an inordinant amount of time recollect and re-explode. It's a cycle, like most of life! Jeez. The repeling will only last until centrifugal force winds down and motion stops.

Multiple big bangs is still a theory, less accepted than the singular big bang theory last I checked. The fact that the universe is expanding contrary to gravity pulling it together is one of the things that led Einstein to redefine how gravity works, stating that it bends space rather than directly attracts objects together. Of course, it's far more complicated than that, but I'm not a physics student.

Also, it's misleading to claim the universe is round. Round is either a 2 or 3 dimmensional term, something our universe is not. Our universe, as I've been told, is expanding into a fourth dimension and can only be understood by analogy. Take a balloon as a 2 dimensional universe. The inhabitants can only move along the surface area of the balloon and can only comprehend the 2 dimensional surface. The balloon, as it blows up, is expanding into the 3rd dimension, but the inhabitants of the 2 dimensional universe cannot comprehend this expansion, just as we cannot comprehend the expansion of our universe into the 4th spacial dimension. Although it is true that the universe supposedly loops like the balloon would for the 2 dimensional creatures, you can't really say it's round. We can't comprehend what shape it is.

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Originally Posted by Sinister

You've never heard the closed-end theory? Once the big bang explodes it's all going to collect and do it over again.

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Yes. The universe itself is going to come to some sort of end, because it cannot expand forever simply due to the fact that there is only so much energy. I believe in the Big Crunch, which is the idea that the universe will reach a point, and then contract back into the size before the Big Bang, due to reaching critical density. The Big Crunch theorizes that, at this point, our universe would end and another begin.

Of course, this is only one of many theories. There is the idea of Big Freeze or Heat Death, among others. It also depends on how you view the universe: open, closed, or flat. A closed universe would end with the Big Crunch, an open universe would have a Big Freeze or Heat Death, and a flat universe is such a crazy idea that no one knows how it will end.

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Originally Posted by Jintatsu

Also, it's misleading to claim the universe is round. Round is either a 2 or 3 dimmensional term, something our universe is not. Our universe, as I've been told, is expanding into a fourth dimension and can only be understood by analogy. Take a balloon as a 2 dimensional universe. The inhabitants can only move along the surface area of the balloon and can only comprehend the 2 dimensional surface. The balloon, as it blows up, is expanding into the 3rd dimension, but the inhabitants of the 2 dimensional universe cannot comprehend this expansion, just as we cannot comprehend the expansion of our universe into the 4th spacial dimension. Although it is true that the universe supposedly loops like the balloon would for the 2 dimensional creatures, you can't really say it's round. We can't comprehend what shape it is.

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That is the same analogy my Astronomy professor used, and it makes sense. This is why we have so many theories as to the shape and structure of the universe. Its a point that is beyond human grasp, and its doubtful we could comprehend it any time soon.

I didn't imply that it was round, merely that it had centrifugal and centripetal force, which is inherent in particles that have exploded. And you honestly think that once the universe has finished expanding, once all the force of the big bang has wound down, that it's all just going to stay and sit there in dead non-motion for all eternity?

-Sin

That would depend on the distances between objects. If each object is infinitely far from all other objects, the gravitational pull is going to be so insignificant that everything may just continue to float away.

Surely over a certain distance the gravitational pull must be negligible, but for all eternity, it must have some effect, however small. Then the closer the items draw to eachother, no matter how long it may take, the greater the effect, thus, the time of all of this matter recombing would exponentionally decrease the closer all of it begins to gather.

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Originally Posted by El Wray

That is the same analogy my Astronomy professor used, and it makes sense. This is why we have so many theories as to the shape and structure of the universe. Its a point that is beyond human grasp, and its doubtful we could comprehend it any time soon.

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I got it from an astronomy proffessor. Go figure. :P

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Originally Posted by Sinister

And you honestly think that once the universe has finished expanding, once all the force of the big bang has wound down, that it's all just going to stay and sit there in dead non-motion for all eternity?

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No, I don't have an opinion on that. I'm not a physisist or an astronomer. All I know is what I remember from a short astronomy course I took and the gravitational pull of the universe was brought up as a subject for debate in relation to Newton's theory. It was claimed that Einstein's gravitational theory compensated for that and created an acceptable reason why the universe is expanding despite gravity. The validity of that may be in question, but that's what I recal.

Ok, I'm with that part of it. But the force has to wear down, eventually, right? Newton would agree, I think, there exists an opposing force. But I am talking about an unimaginable stint of time. Longer than any single measurement that I care to express numerically. Naturally that length of time reflects the extent of the force, but it's still better than nothing, right? And if we're talking the cessation of universal movement, then I think gravity will come back in a big way.

As far as I'm concerned with this subject is. Judgement day can happen tommorrow, or in a few hours. There is nothing we can do about it. If it's time for all of us to meet our maker so be it. I always felt that my great great great granchildren would live to see it, but not me. However, I may be wrong. It may come sooner then we all think. The mayans have predicted a lot of true things to happen. This could be another one of their predictions to come true.

... wasn't the world 'supposed' to end on 06.06.06? It never happened then, so why should it happen in the future?

i dnt believe it., i heard from sum1 that they heard the world would be hit by a metor in so many thousands of year, dnt mean nofin to me tho i wnt b around to witness it but it wnt happen neway, our technology keeps gettin better we cud jus shoot at it wiv a massive laser gun

Everyone who is saying things like:

-"Well the Mayan calendar ends in 2012, but my calendar ends every year. So just buy them a new calendar."
-"The world didn't end on Y2K, why would it now?"
-"The world didn't end on 06.06.06, why would it now?"

You're all missing the point of the whole Mayan calendar thing. The calendar hanging on your wall is different from the Calendar we use to keep track of time. (365 days of the year) The Mayans predicted there will be no more days after December 23rd, 2012, or something close to that.

Also, just because the world didn't end 6 years ago doesn't mean it can't end tomorrow. Where is the logic in these questions?

Anyway, the big bang theory speculates that after the universe stops expanding, it will then start reversing and implode.

well if you believe in christianity, the Bible says that there will be a Rapture that will last seven years and if the world was supposed to end in 2012 that would mean that the Rapture would have had to start already but i dont think it has because things are still going relatively smoothly in the world. it also says that the anti christ well reveal itself during that time and make averyone belive that he is God and i dont think that has happened yet either. but only ppl who belive in christianity belive this. buts thats just my opinion.

Well, aren't there a ton of ancient civilizations that all freakishly predicted that the world would end in 2012.

Having said that, i find this hard to believe. There is no way of saying how the world will end.

Plague? Think not. Not even with the current NHS....
Famine? Unless global warming gets to us pretty quickly and severely, then no.
Drought? Again, no.
Some kind of asteroid? No, they would have seen it coming from a (million) miles off.
Aliens? Would be pretty cool, but not all alien races will be like that off independence day.

I really find it hard to find any reason as to why the world will end in 4 years time. Sure, it's hard to deny that something like this will happen in the future (talking thousands of years here), but here? Now? Nah.

Nearly two millennia ago the disciples of Jesus of Nazareth asked Him a question that has intrigued people ever since:
"What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (Matthew 24:3, King James Version).

People in every generation since have wondered about this. Will the world literally end? If so, how? Why? And when? What does the Bible really say about this crucial and disturbing question?

Religious people aren't the only ones asking these questions. In recent decades people from many walks of life have expressed concern about the possibility of the end of the world as we know it. Politicians, educators and scientists foresee the potential destruction of our world from a number of causes-including nuclear warfare, environmental disaster, planetary pollution, overpopulation, killer diseases and collision with a comet or asteroid.

I myself am a Christian. I go to a babtist church every Wednesday and Sunday. I believe in the bible. The bible states that there will come a time when Anti-Christ will be the head of a nation. He will say that he will do all this good stuff: unite the world, feed all the starving people, ETC ...; and then will tear the world apart. The man will come from a Muslim decent and deny it.

I believe that this could be the next USA president Oboma.

I do not t=believe that the world will come to an end on 12 21 2012 but it could and will probably be a world wide crisis.

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Originally Posted by Blitz King

The bible states that there will come a time when Anti-Christ will be the head of a nation. He will say that he will do all this good stuff: unite the world, feed all the starving people, ETC ...; and then will tear the world apart. The man will come from a Muslim decent and deny it.

I believe that this could be the next USA president Oboma.

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Alright, Christian eschatologist...lemme point a little flaw in that judgment.

In no part of the Bible does it mention that the Antichrist will be of Muslim descent, unless you have interpreted that a Semite would deny it's heritage as a sign. If that would happen, then you could have a certain hated person be called the Antichrist (and I will not refer to him for fear of Godwin's Law).

As far as I reckon, Christian eschatology isn't very clear on the true nature of the Antichrist. What most Christian believers believe as truth is the following:

--The nation spoken will not necessarily be the United States, but the command of the United Nations. It just happens that the UN headquarters is in New York; it also happens that the current Secretary of the United Nations isn't an American (it's a Korean). It also happens that the United States isn't the ultimate superpotency anymore. The European Union is.

--The mention of the Antichrist speaks of "a common tongue, a common coin". If anything, the European Union is the closest to have such, for having a common language (French), and a common coin (the Euro, which is right now the currency with the most value skipping the Sterling Pound and two other currencies).

If anything, the Christian eschatologists believe the Antichrist will be European, and perhaps of Jewish descent, NOT of Muslim descent. However, there's a little bit more.

Ever heard of Nostradamus? Yeah, to many he's a prophet, to others a charlatan, and yet to others (perhaps including you) as an envoy of the Devil. Yet, most of what he had "prophesized" has turned into a reality.

Or is it? The human mind is quite amazing, you know. Capable of making sense of even the littlest of clues. That is why Dan Brown is so popular right now, because he tied up some historical curiosities, facts and what not, into a fictional setting with haunting ideas to real life. Does that make Dan Brown a prophet, a sage? No little than Nostradamus.

Now, I do tend to believe myself a Christian too, but with a clear line of thought. And each time I hear about the "signs of the Apocalypse", I have to remember these slight lines. Perhaps you've heard this quote, it's in the Bible, though my memory fails to me where it is. It's in the Gospels, if I'm not mistaken. I'll paraphrase it, since I don't remember it from memory (and I remember it in Spanish)

Not even the Angels in Heaven know when the world will end. Only the Father in Heaven knows.

In fact, the book of Revelations gives an advice, not a specific date. It advises to be wary, to beware, for any day the return of Christ would happen.

I say this because eschatology should be taken with an inch of skepticism. There are many ways the world could possibly end. I mean, it's common knowledge the idea of Mutual Assured Destruction. That frightening idea alone throws Christian eschatology off the roof. There's the Large Hadron Collider, there's Anubis looming in the outer rims of space.

And yeah, the title of this thread: the end of the Mayan Fifth age (I reckon it's the fifth age, am I right?)

So I'll say it again, to keep on track: eschatology should be taken with an inch of skepticism. Since such a terrible knowledge can effectively paralyze the mind of the gullible, causing it to act desperately. I'm not telling you "it will not happen", all I'm saying is "it's going to happen, but we don't know when; it's better to be prepared at any moment rather than seeking the clues and then do something right before it's too late."

And, I do believe Obama has an air of Manchurian Candidate. But from that to the Antichrist...that's a very long step. I'd honestly expected Hillary to win, but if this guy has good ideas, let him do them. Just be wary whenever he gains control of the United Nations and forces the US to join the European Union...

Alright, that's going too far.

Well if I were to belive this it would be pretty hard because I deal with proplem when they come and it is kinda hard to think about this. You see I live in the moment not thinking how this will affect me later. But if everything geep going no one will live. Now i am a crishton but i do not belive in the worled will end on 2012

the end of the world? yes.
in 2012? no.
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the world will probably end in 25 century. or far more than that.
but, i'm not that concern about when will the world end, 'cause i know when that will happen i will be dead. so why bother? and it's good enough for me.

There's far too many theories about how the world is going to end. Remember Nostradamus? With 'the world is gonna end in 2000'? And the multiple meteor/comet threats? Not to mention all the talk of climate change, war, scientific 'facts' proving the ultimate end... If technology hasn't advanced to the point where people can predict when they themselves are going to die, and if there's still dispute about the creation of the universe, then I sincerely doubt that anyone would be able to accurately predict when the world is going to end.

And, if I'm wrong, I have the added benefit of not having to live to regret it. :lol:

In one sense, I want to say "wait, the year Britain hosts the Olympics is the year the world goes wrong?"

In honesty, though, I think it'll be another thirty years at least before the world ends. I did hear about the world getting colder in a couple of years, which makes sense to me, but only because the last few years have been much too hot and when I was young, I was fortunate enough to witness a couple of truly white Christmasses.

I don't know whether or not it'll happen. As for the world ending, I'll believe it when I see it. Ironic statement, but there you go.

I don't really think that the world will end in four years. I mean, throughout history, people have been predicting the end of the world countless times, but it never really happened. I don't think this time is any different, really. I don't know when the world will end, possibly even never. It's been here thousands of years, why can't it stay for another thousand or more?