Beyond Death

[Dimi]

Before I start asking questions and stuff, I've been thinking about death for a while. For about several months now. At first I just thought about it all the time. It would just scare me and just thinking about what happens after the and gave me some panic attacks. But as of lately I haven't been thinking a much about it and I'm starting to somewhat accept it and look at it in a different perspective. Its not that I want to die, I don't but I see death in my point of view as a resting. I believe that we're here for a reason and we're supposed to learn things in life and learn stuff about us of who we are. Sounds dumb, I know but maybe I'm just saying this out of fear. Sometimes I think that we're just here by mistake, but then again I think the opposite but my question is this....

1. What do you believe happens after death?
2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?
3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?

And please, don't bash each others beliefs. I know how some people are on here and it gets out of control on threads like these or similar and then ends up closing because some member flamed another member then it gets worse. This is something that has been on my mind for a while and I would like to hear what people's opinions and thoughts are.

(And if this is in the wrong thread, I apologise. Feel free to move it.)

[Furore]

Nice idea for a thread...

1. What do you believe happens after death?

I believe the physical body rots away, and then a part of you goes elsewhere. Like the beginning to a new journey. That said, I have nothing real to base that upon, it's just personal belief. I just get an odd feeling it won't be the end for real, and as such I have no fear of death...

2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?

No fear of death. As I believe it's just the beginning of something else, I'm actually a little excited. And if worse comes to worse, my consciousness will just cease to exist. That don't really scare me neither...

3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?

I believe we can create a reason for our existence, and even in some cases be remembered long after we die. I guess that that the reason for this life is as a test of sorts for whatever awaits us after death. And if I'm wrong? Well I'll find out then. I believe in God strongly though, and do believe we have some use. It's just up to us to find it.

[Sinister]

I believe we go back to where we came from. Do any of you remember where you were before you were born? Do you believe that you didn't have a consciousness until you were birthed? Or do you believe that you always were? Ever slept? Ever remember sleeping? Of course you don't. You don't retain memories because you were completely different. Didn't have the novelty of cranial space to record your deeds.

The comfort...Nothing comes of Nothing. You came from somewhere, maybe you'll do it again?


1. What do you believe happens after death?

When it rains, individual drops fall to earth and to collect. Either they become part of the ocean or the are evaporated and spun from heaven again.



2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?

Of course I fear death. What more an appropos thing to fear? I do not know what happens.


3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?

I hope not.

[ChloChloAriadne]

1. What do you believe happens after death?
--I'm very odd in my beliefs of death.. I believe that this is death. Life is just another term for it. This is a true hell. The place we once were.. Before we died? That had no potential to become this. It had no problems at all. All was perfect.

I believe that after this, we will go onto another stage of hell. Worse or better than this, I'm not sure.

2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?
--No. I don't have any fear of it whatsoever. I'm not scared of dying, nor do I particularly want to at this time.

3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?
-- No.. I don't think we're all here for a reason. I think that maybe we make our own reason. I believe more in the fact that there is ... Something that connects each of us to this world. A thing, a person, anything. That being the reason we live, whether we know it or not. The thing that keeps us here.

[Omega Weapon]

1. What do you believe happens after death?

I believe that once you die that you're just dead. There is no after life and there is no soul that is passed on to an after life. Once you die that is it, it's the end..there is no heaven and no hell to fall back on.

I feel that people created heaven and hell as a safety blanket to make death a little more comforting. It makes people happy to know that when they die it won't be the end but if they follow in the ways of a 'God' that they will be greeted with eternal happiness and if they disobey then they will burn in hell. I feel it is a system created by the weak that cannot accept death for what it is...

2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?

I don't think I fear death...it's going to happen. As far as talking about it, it does make some people uncomfortable but it's a fact of life. but I do fear the way I may die. I do not want to die a horrible death at all.

I think fear of the unknown is natural. It applies to all things, death included. I think it's important to talk about it. It's such a natural part of life that it shouldn't be swept under the rug and ignored.

3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?

I believe we can create a reason for our existence, and even in some cases be remembered long after we die.

Could you ask for a better answer

[Walter Sobchak]

1. What do you believe happens after death?
We get put in the ground. Or burned into ashes and scattered in some trendy place.
2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?
Of course I do. When I die, I am gone. I will never get to live again. I don't want this to end.
3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?
No. As social animals, we are here to reproduce and live in packs. Since human beings possess a certain intelligence, we strive to make more of ourselves. That goes from person to person.

[Jin]

1. What do you believe happens after death?
Simply put, I don't know. There is no proof to go off of, so why pretend I know? I have had no "feelings" to suggest one thing or another, so there's no point basing it off of faith either. It could be Heaven or Hell, Samsara or Moksha, or eternal sleep as I rot in the ground, damned if I know.

2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?
Of course I do. As Sinister said, it is an unkown. Unkown things scare most.

3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?
I have to answer this with virtually the same answer as I did for the first question. There's really no way to know.

[VengefulRonin]

1. What do you believe happens after death?
The soul journeys to...some sort of afterlife. I do believe that humans have souls, it's what sets us apart from animals, gives us the concepts of morals and right and wrong, it's what can make people dance and scream and cry and laugh to music, it's what provides the myriad of intricate emotions. Now of course, I have no idea as to what that afterlife we go to is, nor do I particularly care to formulate an idea.

2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?
Not really. I mean, I want to live a full life and it would suck to die at an early age, but I don't fear it. Whatever happens happens, I suppose that's fate.

3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?

Hrmm, I don't know. The Calvinist catechism (part of some Christian denomonations' doctrine) says that we are put on this earth to "glorify God and enjoy him forever", which sounds like a pretty robotic existence. Funny that in the book of Genesis it says humans are designed to be the caretakers of the earth and nothing about that other stuff. And if that's true...well then, we've pretty much completely failed as a species.

I suppose it's nice for some people to think they're on this earth for a purpose, and I'm sure some are (such as inventors, philosophers, any influential or revolutionary people)...I personally don't care. I'm here, I might as well make the best of it and see what awaits me upon death. There's really no point to even worrying, because we can't ever be certain and it only makes our existence stressful. Like, sure, you yourself can be certain that you're going to the Christian heaven, but has anyone ever come back from there to tell us it exists? No, so as a whole, humanity cannot be certain of what awaits after death. Certainly can't be worse than this messed up world <.<

[Furore]

3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?
No. As social animals, we are here to reproduce and live in packs. Since human beings possess a certain intelligence, we strive to make more of ourselves. That goes from person to person.

I was just wondering about this point, as it seems like a paradox to me. You've said 'no' to the question of if we're here for a certain reason, then go on to say that we are here to reproduce and live in packs.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems a bit warped...

[Hjortkayre]

1. What do you believe happens after death?
In all honesty... I have no idea whatsoever. I have nothing with which to form an opinion except several different religions. The most favourable 'afterlife' to me would be reincarnation. Then, the worst that can happen is you are, say, a tapeworm. If you believe in Christianity, then the worst that can happen is spending eternity in Hell.

2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?
I fear dying. Most people do. Human beings fear the unknown, the unknown is the only thing we are scared of. If you are scared to the dark, it is because you cant see what is out there. If you are scared of spiders, it is because you don't know if they are deadly. If you fear death, it is because you don't know what happens after it.
The thing I fear most about death is how I die. I would rather have a peaceful death than a painful one. I would rather die in my sleep than be murdered.

3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?
Yes, I think we have a reason. I don't know who sets the reason, if it is a God, an almighty being, fate, or even ourselves. But I believe we are here for a reason. The reason may be to live well, to reproduce, or just to carry on DNA, or it may be something else entirely.

[Govinda]

I think that after death, we sleep. Just eternal naptime. My version of heaven. Maybe wake up every now and again to shift the pillow.

I don't fear death. I used to, but then realised that there's no point. It's the ultimate inevitability: YOU ARE ALL GOING TO DIE. So get over it. Live while you can, for the honour of being loved; love in return, and you'll be a happy chappy. Say hi to the seagull on the windowsill in the morning and be glad to be alive. I would fear death if I hadn't learned how to enjoy life - the trees, the cats, and most importantly the people, your family and friends. You're alive, love: bask in that simple fact alone, and do whatever you want with it.

I think we're here to breed. Monkeys on a lonely rock theory - we're here to make more bald monkeys. But since we have the capacity to think, this sentience, we're allowed to make our own meanings - live for whatever we want. Some people live for their work, some for their studies; some live for the sake of others, some live for the things and the people that they love and also for themselves. Just go with the flow, chill, and remember how nice it is to see a blue sky.

This may sound like I'm duping myself into ignoring the futility of all of this, but you need to give life a point lest it overwhelm you.

[Walter Sobchak]

I was just wondering about this point, as it seems like a paradox to me. You've said 'no' to the question of if we're here for a certain reason, then go on to say that we are here to reproduce and live in packs.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems a bit warped...

Okay. I meant that we have no purpose in the sense of otherworldly pursuits. I don't consider reproduction as a "purpose" given to us from a higher power. Dogs and cats do it. Do you see what I am saying? Sorry if it was unclear.

I think we're here to breed. Monkeys on a lonely rock theory - we're here to make more bald monkeys. But since we have the capacity to think, this sentience, we're allowed to make our own meanings - live for whatever we want. Some people live for their work, some for their studies; some live for the sake of others, some live for the things and the people that they love and also for themselves. Just go with the flow, chill, and remember how nice it is to see a blue sky.

This is what I was trying to say, but worded much more eloquently.

I don't see how you can say you aren't afraid of death if you aren't religious, though. Just because death is inevitable doesn't mean I won't use every chance I have to avoid it.

[Sinister]

The problem with your fine theories(addressed more to western culture) is that you don't get consciousness, emotion, feeling and intelligence from this stupid universe full of blind forces that you have painted.

You must realize that there are fashions in the intellectual world and this is merely the view you want to take if you want people to view you as a tough guy, one who doesn't indulge in false hopes and wishful thinking.

The idea that all of this is a lot of flukes is ridiculous. Western man's world is so ****ed up in philosophy that it's conclusions make little or any sense. First it views the world as an artifact and as your bodies as artifacts and now it's saying that all of it had no creator and was the result of some major intrastellar ****-up. Someone should atleast make it consistent.

Western world's mindsets keep building these premises and when they collapse they keep building on the unsteady rubble of their former theories and now all of it should be abandoned and restarted. Philosophically, semiotically, symbolically and even scientifically in most instances, it is all ****ed up.



lol, wow, I've gotten more vocal...normally I wouldn't expend the effort(ultimately, I probably still won't) Futility is often evident to the wise, but for some reason I felt like barking. I said the above in the fervent hope that it would not be reduced to being quoted and made into a bunch of stultifying one-liners or neg reps. Also no offense was intended. Just felt like venting on a subject that always bugged me.

-Sin

[Jin]

I won't give it "one liners" because it was at least thought out well and wasn't some narcasistic attempt to brandish intelligence to losers over the internet, but I do have to disagree with your reasoning.

Simply speaking, the idea that God created us, the idea of samsara, the idea of a natural force, Rta or Tao or whatever one calls it, the idea that one can be enlightened by walking through the streets without even a loin clothe and denying one's self every joy, all of these concepts are ridiculous. I completely agree with you that the idea of the world happening by chance is ridiculous as well, however, any other idea that humanity has come up with is ridiculous as well. I really do think that assuming the human race can even begin to understand where we came from, why and where we are going is arrogant. A non-creation theory is just as valid as every other theory and are all equally ridiculous. Maybe they cancel each other out in that case.

[Sinister]

Well you take me back to my stance in that one thread, what Hume had said, "If it lies within the scope of mankind then it shall be discovered." And your argument and mine, is that it does not lie within that scope. But as I said, might as well make your selection of the best and perhaps the most comforting guess.

Perhaps you are right, but even in all of this conflict of ridiculous ideas of origins, ultimate entities and universal masterminds, one thing is evident. This world wasn't made. It wasn't assembled from parts as a creator would, working from the outside to the inside. It was grown, which is an entirely and altogether different concept. Even the motion isn't an assembly of parts, it's an expanding from something as simple as a seed, which gradually complicates itself. Therefore, we were not born into this world, we grew out of it. If evolution means anything at all, it means that.

Thus if there is a "God" in a traditional or even an untraditional fashion then it is the universe itself. A sentient universe. A consciousness contained with in itself, where even the rocks are alive and conscious to a degree. You think reductionism can reduce everything down to chemistry? You see what your average scientist emplores you to follow is that fundamentally consciousness is just a complicated form of geology and chemistry. So is it that far a step to say that geology and chemistry is a primative form of consciousness?

It's a question of perspective in the end. Either it's, you will someday cease to be and simply melt into a supposed "nothingness" from which all consciousness and life just some how manages to spring from, or you will simply meld back into the fold of the living universe itself.


*sigh* Whew, that was alot of Taoist jargon for one night. Anyway, perhaps I'm far off, but the above is my creedo and my faith.


-Omni

[VengefulRonin]

Well you take me back to my stance in that one thread, what Hume had said, "If it lies within the scope of mankind then it shall be discovered." And your argument and mine, is that it does not lie within that scope. But as I said, might as well make your selection of the best and perhaps the most comforting guess.

Aye, quite true, we really have no way of ever knowing what's beyond death or how the world was made. The best we can create are theories, and even though the Big Bang and evolution are widely accepted, they are still theories. Until we are able to create time machines, we will never be able to prove these theories as 100% correct. Same goes for death, unless someone is able to come back from the other side, we won't know. I suppose it's human nature to want to know where we came from and what will happen to us when we die though.

Perhaps you are right, but even in all of this conflict of ridiculous ideas of origins, ultimate entities and universal masterminds, one thing is evident. This world wasn't made. It wasn't assembled from parts as a creator would, working from the outside to the inside. It was grown, which is an entirely and altogether different concept. Even the motion isn't an assembly of parts, it's an expanding from something as simple as a seed, which gradually complicates itself. Therefore, we were not born into this world, we grew out of it. If evolution means anything at all, it means that.

Thus if there is a "God" in a traditional or even an untraditional fashion then it is the universe itself. A sentient universe. A consciousness contained with in itself, where even the rocks are alive and conscious to a degree. You think reductionism can reduce everything down to chemistry? You see what your average scientist emplores you to follow is that fundamentally consciousness is just a complicated form of geology and chemistry. So is it that far a step to say that geology and chemistry is a primitive form of consciousness?

Haha, reminds me of the planet/lifestream in VII. Although really, it's not that bad of an idea. And what you say about chemistry is true as well. Scientists are constantly studying the human brain and finding all sorts of chemical reactions that cause certain emotions and whatnot. Now I'm not sure about rocks being conscious, since they're not exactly flora or fauna. I don't know, if the entire world is conscious as you theorize, perhaps rocks are like...fingernails? o_O

For all we know, the Force is real and George Lucas was a genius to discover it. I think the world was made, but was it some god who made it? Possibly, possibly not. It could have been a semi-conscious force/entity/oneness that simply set everything into motion and let it go *shrug*

[Bleachfangirl]

1. What do you believe happens after death?
I think we all stop breathing and die. There is nothing after death because you mind stops working. Your brain is a pile of fat and tissue. You no longer exist because your mind, your personality is gone. If you don't exist anymore other than what used to hold your mind, the meat sack that is your body, nothing can actually happen to you. After death, you are gone and that is the end of the story for me, though I'm supposed to be Buddhist...

2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?
Everyone fears dying. I don't fear it because death itself is unknown. That aspect actually intrigues me because as a human, I was born a curious creature that wants to understand what is unknown. I just fear death because I like life and love what is around me and don't want to lose it.

3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?
I believe we are here because evolution put us here. Everything on Earth was created for reasons that I can't figure out. I think the reason everything is created is because there is a purpose for it. You make a bowl because you need something to drink from. Phyto-plankton are flat and umbrella shaped because they need to float. Animals evolve because of certain needs or lack of them. I think that's why we're here.

~
Theories are just ways for us to make up reasons for things we don't understand. I just like them anyway.

[Sinister]

Aye, quite true, we really have no way of ever knowing what's beyond death or how the world was made. The best we can create are theories, and even though the Big Bang and evolution are widely accepted, they are still theories. Until we are able to create time machines, we will never be able to prove these theories as 100% correct. Same goes for death, unless someone is able to come back from the other side, we won't know. I suppose it's human nature to want to know where we came from and what will happen to us when we die though.



Haha, reminds me of the planet/lifestream in VII. Although really, it's not that bad of an idea. And what you say about chemistry is true as well. Scientists are constantly studying the human brain and finding all sorts of chemical reactions that cause certain emotions and whatnot. Now I'm not sure about rocks being conscious, since they're not exactly flora or fauna. I don't know, if the entire world is conscious as you theorize, perhaps rocks are like...fingernails? o_O

For all we know, the Force is real and George Lucas was a genius to discover it. I think the world was made, but was it some god who made it? Possibly, possibly not. It could have been a semi-conscious force/entity/oneness that simply set everything into motion and let it go *shrug*

As for rocks and consciousness, it's all part of the perspective. They're made up of a lot of the same stuff you are. In fact, everything seems to be made out of the same parts, atoms and electrons, matter and energy parts(to take the western "artifact" perspective). Flora and Fauna? If you were a grain of Ecoli living inbetween the villi of the intestines, would you think they were alive or would you merely assume they are part of the scenery. Perception and point-of-view can screw up even the most careful and sceptical logic. We work with everyday, things we don't fully understand or recognize from all points of views, how can you expect anyone to form anything more than a theory using only one perspective?

As for the force being real, that may or may not be, but George Lucas would be second at finding it. Lao Tzu has a better claim and about 2000 years tenure. Lucas merely read up on Taoist, changed the name, added some sorcery and flashy weapons, although, to great effect, I must add.



Also let's take a deeper step, okay? More deeper revelations? Yes please.

Can you describe to a blind person what a bird is without mentioning they're environment? Can you describe what the act of walking is without mentioning the ground? No you can't, otherwise it's just a lot of leg wiggling and wagging. How is it that all of western culture and the greatest majority of mankind can actually still use the word "I" and the word "them". What makes you think you are a seperate entity from your environment at all? What makes you think that your not all one great blob of consciousness and matter?

If pressed, you find you cannot seperate yourself from the things you see. Everything you see is not contained in the proverbial "Out there" because all that you see are those "inanimate" chemicals reacting and firing in your "brain." No one can even "prove" that there really is an outside. That things are seperate. That there are "I"s and "You"s.


Because you see, what really haunts people. What scares them, and the reason this thread was made, is that people think that when they die, that that's it. They'll be locked in the deep dark safe deposit box of death forever.


Do you see how impossible our position is? We are in a position to literally confirm "nothing" in the utmost. You can't confirm or deny what I just said and a lot of it I made up on the spur of the moment. That is where we are. That is the only real answer to the question this thread asks.


-0mni

[VengefulRonin]

As for rocks and consciousness, it's all part of the perspective. They're made up of a lot of the same stuff you are. In fact, everything seems to be made out of the same parts, atoms and electrons, matter and energy parts(to take the western "artifact" perspective). Flora and Fauna? If you were a grain of Ecoli living inbetween the villi of the intestines, would you think they were alive or would you merely assume they are part of the scenery. Perception and point-of-view can screw up even the most careful and sceptical logic. We work with everyday, things we don't fully understand or recognize from all points of views, how can you expect anyone to form anything more than a theory using only one perspective?

That...is actually a very good point. In the book of Genesis, it says that God created Adam from the dust of the earth. Now I'm not saying the Bible is true, but I seem to recall reading in some magazine that if you break man down to his most basic elements, he becomes nothing more than clay or dirt.

As for the force being real, that may or may not be, but George Lucas would be second at finding it. Lao Tzu has a better claim and about 2000 years tenure. Lucas merely read up on Taoist, changed the name, added some sorcery and flashy weapons, although, to great effect, I must add.

Well we can at least credit him for developing the lightsaber then xD

Also let's take a deeper step, okay? More deeper revelations? Yes please.

Can you describe to a blind person what a bird is without mentioning they're environment? Can you describe what the act of walking is without mentioning the ground? No you can't, otherwise it's just a lot of leg wiggling and wagging. How is it that all of western culture and the greatest majority of mankind can actually still use the word "I" and the word "them". What makes you think you are a seperate entity from your environment at all? What makes you think that your not all one great blob of consciousness and matter?

If pressed, you find you cannot seperate yourself from the things you see. Everything you see is not contained in the proverbial "Out there" because all that you see are those "inanimate" chemicals reacting and firing in your "brain." No one can even "prove" that there really is an outside. That things are seperate. That there are "I"s and "You"s.


Because you see, what really haunts people. What scares them, and the reason this thread was made, is that people think that when they die, that that's it. They'll be locked in the deep dark safe deposit box of death forever.


Do you see how impossible our position is? We are in a position to literally confirm "nothing" in the utmost. You can't confirm or deny what I just said and a lot of it I made up on the spur of the moment. That is where we are. That is the only real answer to the question this thread asks.


-0mni

Well...that's a rather bleak perspective, but it actually does make quite alot of sense. Although I'm not sure how nothing is the utmost, it seems to me that oneness would be the utmost. Going along the lines of your theory, we are all the same existence, we are manifested in different ways but all are connected to and originate from the same singularity. And that singularity doesn't end with the Earth, it continues into the reaches of space, thus why they can find elements found on Earth on other planets and gas giants as well.

[Sinister]

Going along the lines of your theory, we are all the same existence, we are manifested in different ways but all are connected to and originate from the same singularity. And that singularity doesn't end with the Earth, it continues into the reaches of space, thus why they can find elements found on Earth on other planets and gas giants as well.

That is probably the single greatest explanation of the Taoist religion I can find. That brought a tear to my eye. That was brilliant! It really was. It could've had more of Taoist details but you captured the simplicty of it all very well.

Now what you said and what I believe may be a vicious horrible falsehood. But so far nothing has been proven and nothing has been disproven. Besides what could offer a sweeter afterlife then that! Become part of the single greatest lifeform ever, no no, to realize that you were part of it all along.

It's a stretch, sure, but when you stretch it out next to all the other religions and theories, who's really the big fish tale and who is the big fish?


Anyway, it's all a lot of fun and neat speculation.


-Sin

[VengefulRonin]

Aha, why thank you ^_^

As you said, it all could be a glaring falsehood, but I really do like the theory. It's actually a rather comforting idea, because after death we will still continue to exist. Our self-awareness might not be present, but our decomposed bodies...our elements...will still be a part of this singularity, just in a different form.

[Jin]

No one can even "prove" that there really is an outside.

This is a subject that's always interested me. Whether or not you and everyone and everything around me actually exists or not. Pardon me for getting into pseudo-sociopathic ideas, but if I hurt you, do you in fact feel pain, or are you just an enviornment reacting to me in a way predetermined or simply due to my perception? Am I the only truly conscience person in this world? I have no proof that you or anyone else is. When I was younger, I used to wonder if I were in an experiment. If an alien race or something of the like put me into a controlled and artificial enviornment to see how I'd react. Like the Truman Show, but without real people. Later, I got into a more abstract concept.

I heard a quote once: "Everything alive is God's personal toy." In the context it was given, it sums up the angle I'm trying to get at. If I am the only conscious one, does that make me God? Are you my creation? Creations of the mind that I interact with. Is this body I use real, or simply the way my mind interacts with my creations? Are my creations "alive" or are they simply figments of my mind that were made for me to interact with?

I could go on forever with this and I may already sound like Charlie Manson, so I'll leave it at that.

[VengefulRonin]

This is a subject that's always interested me. Whether or not you and everyone and everything around me actually exists or not. Pardon me for getting into pseudo-sociopathic ideas, but if I hurt you, do you in fact feel pain, or are you just an enviornment reacting to me in a way predetermined or simply due to my perception? Am I the only truly conscience person in this world? I have no proof that you or anyone else is. When I was younger, I used to wonder if I were in an experiment. If an alien race or something of the like put me into a controlled and artificial enviornment to see how I'd react. Like the Truman Show, but without real people. Later, I got into a more abstract concept.

I heard a quote once: "Everything alive is God's personal toy." In the context it was given, it sums up the angle I'm trying to get at. If I am the only conscious one, does that make me God? Are you my creation? Creations of the mind that I interact with. Is this body I use real, or simply the way my mind interacts with my creations? Are my creations "alive" or are they simply figments of my mind that were made for me to interact with?

I could go on forever with this and I may already sound like Charlie Manson, so I'll leave it at that.

Wow O_O That's a real mind****. Actually, it reminds me of that episode of South Park, Tooth Fairy Tats where Kyle begins to read tons of books about existence/non-existence and he ends up warping space-time.

I've never really thought that much about it, I always figured there are tons of dimensional planes, and what we humans perceive is on our own dimensional plane. For instance, all that we can discover through science, that's on our plane. Now assuming things such as angels, god, devils, ghosts and such are real, they would be in different dimensional planes, ones which would allow the crossover into ours.

One thing I thought of that I would like to add to my simple explanation of Taoism is this: if we are all the same singularity, simply manifest into different forms...the fact that we forms known as humans have cognitive thought would make us...I suppose supreme beings. Or at least we started out as that, anyway. I don't view any species that kills its own over petty things like religion and color and that destroys its own environment supreme. I suppose if you were to try to coincide this with Christianity, Adam and Eve were supreme beings, created to look over this world. But then the Fall came and brought about "sin."

It's said that humans only use 10% of their brains. Whatever this Fall was, whatever this "sin" is that was brought about, is probably related to the other 90% of our brains being inactive. I wonder just what we would be able to achieve and realize if we had 100% cognitive functionality.

[Sinister]

This is a subject that's always interested me. Whether or not you and everyone and everything around me actually exists or not. Pardon me for getting into pseudo-sociopathic ideas, but if I hurt you, do you in fact feel pain, or are you just an enviornment reacting to me in a way predetermined or simply due to my perception? Am I the only truly conscience person in this world? I have no proof that you or anyone else is. When I was younger, I used to wonder if I were in an experiment. If an alien race or something of the like put me into a controlled and artificial enviornment to see how I'd react. Like the Truman Show, but without real people. Later, I got into a more abstract concept.

I heard a quote once: "Everything alive is God's personal toy." In the context it was given, it sums up the angle I'm trying to get at. If I am the only conscious one, does that make me God? Are you my creation? Creations of the mind that I interact with. Is this body I use real, or simply the way my mind interacts with my creations? Are my creations "alive" or are they simply figments of my mind that were made for me to interact with?

I could go on forever with this and I may already sound like Charlie Manson, so I'll leave it at that.

The concept to which you refer is commonly known as Solipsism and is a form of the large branch of philosophies known as Metaphysics. It's a form of pure skepticism and trusting no logical deductions that are derived from sensation. It's pretty neat stuff, really. I've often toyed with that thought, myself, Jin.

So if you are God, Jin, then none of us really matter and certainly death doesn't matter. It's all a game to keep you from getting bored; which is probably true, solipsism or no. But you were right to point out it's sociopathic effects. That's not the effect of believing(or suspecting, as solipsists are more prone to do) solipsism, mind, but acting on it.


-Sin

[Jin]

Ahhh, so there is a name to it, eh? Well thank you very much. Now I can look it up and research it more.

One thing though, when you say that death would not matter in that case, that isn't necessarily true. I still don't know what happens after my mind stops creating the world around me. For all I know, once my avatar dies, my mind ceases being at all. Or perhaps I will simply be, but with nothing around me, being bored once again and deciding to throw myself into a different situation. Mayhaps samsara is planned for me, by myself?

[Sinister]

Mmmm, perhaps. But pay no attention to me, I'm in my cozy spot of trying to disarm death for a past time. It's fun, but rather tiring and you kind of catch yourself saying key phrases like "Then death wouldn't matter!" It's just posturing, just ignore it. lol. Whether death is or isn't the end all be all, I can't help but treat it lightly if for no other reason than my judgmental opinion that death deserves to be treated lightly and mocked when chance is given on the basis that it, already, has mocked too many men... So, in the spirit of that, "O Death be Not Proud!!"

One thing I thought of that I would like to add to my simple explanation of Taoism is this: if we are all the same singularity, simply manifest into different forms...the fact that we forms known as humans have cognitive thought would make us...I suppose supreme beings. Or at least we started out as that, anyway. I don't view any species that kills its own over petty things like religion and color and that destroys its own environment supreme. I suppose if you were to try to coincide this with Christianity, Adam and Eve were supreme beings, created to look over this world. But then the Fall came and brought about "sin."

It's said that humans only use 10% of their brains. Whatever this Fall was, whatever this "sin" is that was brought about, is probably related to the other 90% of our brains being inactive. I wonder just what we would be able to achieve and realize if we had 100% cognitive functionality.

Sorry I almost missed this.

Seperate entities formed from the same living singularities. They would indeed be all gods(or rather, all "God") but would themselves have no single consciousness or particular state or flux of mind... They would be a hive of thoughts, dreams and desires. There would be little individuality, but let me hinge this in a way that I think you might mean.

I have a tree that grows in our Uni courtyard. The thing apples. That's what it does. Thus we name it an apple tree. If the universe is compared to a branching entity, then the thing peoples. Some apples fall from this apple tree I've described and, in turn, actually grow into more apple trees. Where would this metaphor leave us?




-Sin

[VengefulRonin]

Seperate entities formed from the same living singularities. They would indeed be all gods(or rather, all "God") but would themselves have no single consciousness or particular state or flux of mind... They would be a hive of thoughts, dreams and desires. There would be little individuality, but let me hinge this in a way that I think you might mean.

I have a tree that grows in our Uni courtyard. The thing apples. That's what it does. Thus we name it an apple tree. If the universe is compared to a branching entity, then the thing peoples. Some apples fall from this apple tree I've described and, in turn, actually grow into more apple trees. Where would this metaphor leave us?

So we're apples then, aye? Haha, but I see what you're getting at. We are all grown from the same entity, all share elements of it, but at the same time we are our own. Apples may all grow from the same tree and have the same components, but all vary in size and shape. Just like apples, we all come from the same earth but our minds vary.

Taking it a step further, one could liken the universe to a much larger tree and the planets to its apples. Not really the most flattering thing to be compared to, but I suppose it's inevitable due to the limitations of the human mind. I'm sure existence is a much more complex and glorious thing than apples xD

[Sinister]

Most likely so. lol But still, it makes for a pretty cool metaphor. Whether or not all of this is true, it gives us some perspective to live with, some goals to achieve and moreover, something to talk about and all-in-all has just as much a chance as being true as all the above.

*whew*

Lol. I haven't talked this much philosophy in about a year. Fun stuff...

[dimmufan]

1. What do you believe happens after death?
That's hard to say. I don't really believe in a heaven or hell. I do believe in ghosts, though. My best guess is that our souls wander the earth in search of a purpose.

2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?
Most of the time I do, but sometimes I don't. There are times the depression gets the better of me and I start having stupid thoughts. Then there are the times when I'm about to get into shit: when somone's actin like a real badass, or doing soem harm to somebody that I care about, then I let go of tomorrow and live for that moment without any cares of the consequences.

3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?
I used to not think so. Now I do. I believe that the purpose to our existence is different for everybody. Some poeple feel that it is their purpose to save lives while others feel that it is their purpose to destroy lives. Others feel that they should entertain while others find their calling in feeling bad for themselves.

But our ultimate goal in life is to live: to make sure that we will always find a means to survive. We are always finding new ways to better ourselves and in these ways we will find a way to ensure the future of mankind.

[Chez Daja]

1. What do you believe happens after death?

I don't know what happens after death, so I don't know what to believe. We go into the ground, or we're spread around. The thought of not existing is impossible to believe because we have no idea what it is to not exist.

I guess, what sounds most logical to me, would be that we sleep and redream our life again and again without even consciously knowing it. The same thing. Again and again.
Reliving in a dream.

2. Do you or do you not have fear of dying?
Yes and no.

If I was given a horrible terminal illness that I had to suffer through, knowing I was to die within a time period, I would be afraid, scared of everyday being my last.

However, if it was sudden, why would I need to fear death? I'd hardly have time to ponder the situation.


3. If anything, do you believe that we're all here for a certain reason?

Again, I don't know. Nothing sounds logical to me in this sense. I don't think we're here just to reproduce... what's the point of that? Creating more and more life until the world dies from pollution or some such... Just sounds like a shitty reason to live to me.