Abortion: Your Views...

[Unknown Entity]

To me, life starts at conception. If there was no conception, there is no life. Now to take someones life is against the law, and in some countries, you have to pay that life back with your own.

I believe abortion is murder in some cases. If you didn't want to be pregnant, then you clearly did something wrong. Abortion is the last thing you can do to stop a pregnancy, - there are condoms and pills and stuff. However, if the mother is at any danger to the pregnancy, then fair enough. If the mother is way to young to be having kids, fair enough, but keep in mind that if she thought herself big enough to have sex, she should be big enough to have kids.

Not only do I think this, but who would want to put themselves through the abortion process anyway? After watching a video at school of someone having abortion, I was totally shocked and mortified at what I was seeing.

I don't mean this thread to have any offence to anyone. I know I probably wasn't, but please be sensitive, ok?

[L Lawliet]

Some months ago abortion was legalized where I live, before it could only legally happen if the mother was in a life threatening pregnancy. The problem with this is that some younger people might start thinking that abortion is just another form of not having babies just like condoms and pills. I know this might sound a bit absurd but unfortunatly there are people who could think that and do it not even thinking in how it would affect them.
IMO it should only be allow if: the mother's life was in danger; the girl was too young (any age below 17); if she had been raped.

[Phoenix]

I agree totally with L Lawliet. So far as I believe, I feel that abortion should only be permitted if the mother's life is in danger, or if the mother has been raped and feels as though she cannot bring up the child.

[Walter Sobchak]

if she had been raped.

Why? If a fetus is a living thing, being a product of rape does not change this. It is a way of pandering to this imaginary idea that there is moral and immoral abortion.

I am much more worried about the existence of the already living. People are starving, innocent people are being executed, and terrorism continues unfettered. But we need to save unborn babies from families that don't want them in the first place?

I am all for abortion. I would like to see young people be more knowledgeable about condom use, but with abstinence-only education, we don't have it. Forcing a baby to be born to a poor single mother doesn't help anyone. It doesn't help the mother, who has to work multiple jobs to support it, or the baby, who is either put in a foster home or is allowed to walk the streets and be absorbed by a criminal element.

On the other hand, I do personally feel a fetus is "alive". However, the purpose of life isn't to put my beliefs on other people. I leave that for everyone else.

By the way, even though I disagree with all three of you, it is nice to see new blood in ID.

[L Lawliet]

Why? If a fetus is a living thing, being a product of rape does not change this. It is a way of pandering to this imaginary idea that there is moral and immoral abortion...

Actually I think that there are times when it's completly wrong to abort and others where it should be allowes, moral and immoral abortion like you said.
What I meant in my first post is that IMO abortion shouldn't be allowed just because the mother wants to (when I said that people might start seeing aborting just like using condoms). Well, if she was raped then she didn't even have a choice. It's the same as someone pointing a gun at your head and make you raise a child, you didn't ask for it.

[Rainbow4vr]

i belive there are times where is ok and there are times when it is wrong. If your a teenage whore i think it should not happen. Its not a form of birthcontrol and they need to learn that. Now if a woman/girl gets raped then it should be an option, or if there is a medical emergency where the mother wont live then ok. I know there is no way to regulate why women are doing it, if you offer it to one you have to offer it to all. I just wish we can raise our children in the future to be smarter and to use protection.

[Aerif]

Disagrees with post now - okay.

[vevuxking102]

I'm fine with Abortion, as I think a woman should choose. Again, a lot of times this issue gets religious with Christians, but the Bible never actually forbids abortions, but actually promotes them, as in forced abortions. I am of course not for that, but my Christianity aside, I think abortion is good. Though I don't think it should be first thing on a worried womans mind.

[Sasquatch]

I'm with Aerif on this. Just because the child was unwanted -- for whatever reason -- doesn't mean anybody has the right to brutally murder it.

The only -- and I mean only -- way I could support the so-called "right" to abortion is when the mother's life would be in serious danger if the child was carried to full term. And that would be only if the possibility of removing the child alive didn't exist.

I have two serious problems with abortion -- besides the murder, ending of human life, etc. etc. First, the father has no right in the "choice". If a couple is together and the woman gets pregnant, the man has nothing to say about it. It's entirely up to the woman whether to have the child killed or to raise the child with a large percentage of the man's paycheck, taken from him by force. The second and bigger problem I have is that the entire definition of "life" used by pro-choicers has nothing to do with life itself, but the desire of the mother. Murder is still murder, whether somebody wants the victim to live or die.

EDIT:

Again, a lot of times this issue gets religious with Christians, but the Bible never actually forbids abortions, but actually promotes them, as in forced abortions.

Point this out, would you?

[L Lawliet]

I'm fine with Abortion, as I think a woman should choose. Again, a lot of times this issue gets religious with Christians, but the Bible never actually forbids abortions, but actually promotes them, as in forced abortions. I am of course not for that, but my Christianity aside, I think abortion is good. Though I don't think it should be first on a worried womans mind.

What? I know that sometimes it's the "best" option but certainly not good anyway. I may have misunderstood what you meant but you make it sound like it's actually a good thing to do.

[vevuxking102]

Well, what I meant by good was best. Sorry for not clarifying that. Personally, I could never find myself getting an abortion under any circumstances, but that's just me personally, and I don't believe that mindset should be enforced in medical situations.

[Meier Link]

i am going to start by saying, i am deffianantly prochoice, not proabortion. i agree with sasquatch it should be the womans choice not anyone elses (with the exception of life threatening complications)

there are way to many varibles in this subject.

i am on second thought going to stir the pot a little

when you talk about "murdering" the fetus by means of abortion, is that the same as when a woman miscarries and her body naturally aborts the fetus? i know there is the variable of choice in that situation so i relaly dont want to hear you condem me for saying that. the point i am making here is that weather the woman conciously makes that decision or not it is going to happen.

now for more: doesnt the mother have a say so in the goings on with her body and what is contained in it, what makes it moraly wrong for her to do so? say you have a case of the crabs (i know haha yeah i said crabs..... actually no its not because im being serious) they are technicly a living organism so if you go by morality then wouldnt it also be a bad thing to get rid of your crabs?? where does the limitation to morality start and end and who made these decisions for us?????? (try to keep religion out of this one because that would be WWWAAAAAYYYYYY off topic)

now im getting back on my opinion, thats all it is BTW. like i previously stated it should be the mothers choice, as for reasoning it should be one of the 3 that have been stated 100 times over and over again. but all in all since i think it is the womans choice then i shall not pass judgement on her if she decides to do so its her body let her do what she wants with it.........

once again im done rambleing.....

[Aerif]

i am going to start by saying, i am deffianantly prochoice, not proabortion. i agree with sasquatch it should be the womans choice not anyone elses (with the exception of life threatening complications)

I don't know if your joking or not but you contradict yourself several times. Pro-choice = Pro-abortion, pro-choice allows the woman to abort, therefore if your pro-choice then you don't mind abortion. Thus pro-abortion.

Also Sasquatch says that he finds the fact that the woman is the only one with a say in the matter disagreeable. He wants the father to be able to support or not support the choice.

when you talk about "murdering" the fetus by means of abortion, is that the same as when a woman miscarries and her body naturally aborts the fetus? i know there is the variable of choice in that situation so i relaly dont want to hear you condem me for saying that. the point i am making here is that weather the woman conciously makes that decision or not it is going to happen.

Not all pregnancies end in miscarriages though, you say that you don't want to hear the choice argument but that's the main factor. If the doctor says that you may have a miscarriage it does not nesecarilly mean that the baby will die. Also, abortion is the interferance of a woman's womb, it's more natural for the baby to die of natural causes than for a doctor to shove surgical tools up the woman's 'birth area'.

now for more: doesnt the mother have a say so in the goings on with her body and what is contained in it, what makes it moraly wrong for her to do so? say you have a case of the crabs (i know haha yeah i said crabs..... actually no its not because im being serious) they are technicly a living organism so if you go by morality then wouldnt it also be a bad thing to get rid of your crabs?? where does the limitation to morality start and end and who made these decisions for us?????? (try to keep religion out of this one because that would be WWWAAAAAYYYYYY off topic)

A mother shouldn't be able to deny the right of life to her baby just because it is being incubated within her womb. Also, comparing a baby to pubic lice isn't the best metaphor in the world, by definition, 'murder' is the killing of another human being. Killing pubic lice is not murder, whilst killing an unborn baby is.

now im getting back on my opinion, thats all it is BTW. like i previously stated it should be the mothers choice, as for reasoning it should be one of the 3 that have been stated 100 times over and over again. but all in all since i think it is the womans choice then i shall not pass judgement on her if she decides to do so its her body let her do what she wants with it.........

once again im done rambleing.....

Now consider this for a moment, by comitting abortion you are terminating the life of a human being. This human being has a practically unrestricted potential and could grow up to be a lawyer, a doctor, a famous sports personallity. By killing off the fetus, you could be killing off the cure for cancer, the method for practical time travel, the solution to world poverty. Not only is abortion murdering the unborn child, it could also be the deciding factor for millions of lives. You shouldn't be allowed to take that chance, even if abortion wasn't murder to begin with.

[Meier Link]

i realize most of that like i said i was just stiring the pot. in my case like i stated i am not for abortion but i am for the womans right to decide whats going on with her body.

the definition of prochoice varies on personal preference, obviously your veiw on prochoice = promurder/abortion, mine is not as i previously stated. seeing that there is a limitation set to the standard its hard to explain.

i am trying to see others veiws on the topic and trying to broaden the topic a little, i will very clearly say i dont agree with alot of the stuff i stated. BTW sorry i misread what sasquatch posted.

but as for your definition of murder why is the limitation only set to humans? lets say if some one tourchers, beats and decapitates a dog what would you call it?

[Furore]

I'm pro-choice.
I believe the decision should be that of the individual. There would be occasions that the would be human's conditions would really suck if they were born.
Personally I would do my best to protect a child of mine from being aborted, BUT that's just me. The thought of raising a kid one day almost excites me.

But yeah, I couldn't personally justify taking away a person's freedoms no matter how I felt on the matter.

(And on a lighter (non serious, and somewhat horrible) note, abortions could kill 2 birds with one stone. Not only could they stop a child from being born into an unloving family, the meat could be sold cheaply to starving people of poorer nations. Everybody wins!)

[Sasquatch]

when you talk about "murdering" the fetus by means of abortion, is that the same as when a woman miscarries and her body naturally aborts the fetus?

Not at all. There are natural deaths (miscarriage in the womb, natural causes later in life) and murder (abortion in the womb, murder/manslaughter later in life), and there is a huge difference between the two.

now for more: doesnt the mother have a say so in the goings on with her body and what is contained in it, what makes it moraly wrong for her to do so? say you have a case of the crabs (i know haha yeah i said crabs..... actually no its not because im being serious) they are technicly a living organism so if you go by morality then wouldnt it also be a bad thing to get rid of your crabs??

As has been said, please don't try to compare a living human being to a pubic louse.

where does the limitation to morality start and end and who made these decisions for us??????

Human life. If you're trying to equate all life, then there's no difference in me slapping the spider in my shower this morning and me beating a complete stranger to death for no reason.

but all in all since i think it is the womans choice then i shall not pass judgement on her if she decides to do so its her body let her do what she wants with it.........

The child's body isn't the woman's body, and the child's life isn't the woman's life.

but as for your definition of murder why is the limitation only set to humans? lets say if some one tourchers, beats and decapitates a dog what would you call it?

Because the legal and moral definition of murder has prettymuch forever been only regarding humans. If somebody tortures, beats, and decapitates a dog, they would deserve to get the hell beat out of them or face some jail time, but there's a huge difference in decapitating a dog and letting a child be born to the point that his or her head is out of the birth canal and open to the world, then smashing a hose into it and sucking its brain out.

[Meier Link]

ok do not twist my words you are the second person to do that. i never compared a fetus to pubic lice, i compare then sence of moratily and the definition of murder. i was asking about a "lesser form of life" (which is still a LIVING organism) and what the difference is between killing 2 LIVING things

[some guy]

I believe abortion is murder in some cases. If you didn't want to be pregnant, then you clearly did something wrong. Abortion is the last thing you can do to stop a pregnancy, - there are condoms and pills and stuff. However, if the mother is at any danger to the pregnancy, then fair enough. If the mother is way to young to be having kids, fair enough, but keep in mind that if she thought herself big enough to have sex, she should be big enough to have kids.

I believe its only murder if the being is conscious, where as this abortion, the child doesn't really have a say in the deal. You could say that the baby is living, but is it alive? It can't think or act, I realize that yes, its stuck in its mother but if to be murdered, you know your in grave danger, then I don't believe this is the case.

On the contrary to my statement above I do however believe its wrong, for the exact same reasoning, it cannot decide its own fate, technically it's the child that never was. It will never learn, laugh, play, smile, frown, cry or do anything else of any other matter. Saying one person hold the key to death and death is ONLY okay, before they have sex and create this. Until then, its just a simple case of killing someone, you cannot walk the streets and strangle the first person you find, when you find yourself in court explain "It was a 30 year over due abortion", though I probably used that in the completely wrong context. I just felt the need to say it.
But what I'm saying I'm against it, and that I would not plan on doing anything stupid without protection. Not only is that a waste of money but a waste of a human soul.

And what about the pain the women go through? I may not know much on the subject of childbirth but they get morning sickness, and there probably numerous other problems females get, and they're to go through this pain and just get rid of the baby? (that statement only applies if I'm not a moron)

Well thats just one persons opinion...

[Draken Benvolaid]

Personally, I'm ProLife. I can't pick the other as..., I'd be dead if it was...

I was adopted and several of my friends were adopted too.

I can't choose it over life, because it's not just your life you then hold in your hands. You are two for only a short time. If you can't support the child, then give them to adoption groups.

Yes, there is a need for Stem Cell Research, but I think they should use only the necessary (life threatening situations) to obtain cells and strive to make artificial ones in place of natural ones.

There's also a feeling when you are with your child. A sense of being content and being glad they are with you. Not because they are your's or because they have your genes, it's a sense that you are protecting and helping them without a want in return. It's a sense that goes against or even beyond human pride. Maybe it's because you know them as a person, or it's a bond that is even further. I can't explain how I know, but somehow, I do.

[Lucid]

Here's a very good site about abortion and the Bible.
http://www.abortion-and-bible.com/

[Doc Rocco]

I'm anti-abortion. If you look at history of abortion here in Australia, it wasn't legalised until the late 1960's, but only if the mother's life was in danger. It was then allowed if it was for rape or mental health issues. Then any time in the first trimester, and more recently the second, but only in extraordinary circumstances. My point is, if we continue to decrease the restrictions on when a mother can abort a baby, how long is it before we can terminate the life of a human who is already born?

People justify abortions in the early stages of pregnancy as they say an embryo is not human. if we follow this logic, a 35 week old fetus is not human either, as it technically does not become human until birth. You cannot lawfully terminate a pregnancy at that stage, even though the baby is not technically human, so why is an embryo any different?

[ekimeinna]

well... i don't know what's going on to this world...but whatever it is life is so important!! people are not so grateful for what they have right now... they only think that "revenge" is the way they could able to esape problems such as this one... poor little fellas inside a mother's womb.... it's sad that it's over 10,000 babies a year were killed... can you imagine that? and this world is now turning upside down... we are loosing great minds today (if you notice) because we don't know what the future would this little ones have if we let them live... well i got some questions now in my mind, i wonder if those people are happy enough to do this thing to the innocent ones, i don't think they are... second, what if we are the ones that killed and never enjoyed the things that we had now and third, do you think that this world is getting better the more we are doing this...??

i don't mean to offense anyone here... just look around us today... for me, people got a bunch of hatred not love anymore

[Yuki-onna]

I've heard it mentioned a few times, but not expanded on - ADOPTION.

How can you kill a living being inside of you? A part of your own body, growing into a child. This is how you started, too. You were a cell. Than a clump of cells. Then an embryo. A fetus. A baby. A child. An adult. How can you say that it is not life? Even when it doesn't look how you look now, you were once the same. It will grow into a human. Therefore, my view is from the moment of conception, there's a human in your womb. (Well...first...technically, in your ovarian tubes.)

Moving on...I'm against it. You're killing life. And if you pursued with it, there are so many loving couples who can't have children who would have gladly given your child a loving, caring home.

I'm single. I'm poor. This isn't a good time for me right now.

How would you feel if your mother had said that about you? Oh, right, you wouldn't, because you wouldn't exist. Doesn't everyone deserve a chance in life? Even if you're born dirtpoor and you have a crappy start, that doesn't mean you won't make something. How many idols and important people have risen from the slums? Your situation is no excuse for ending an unborn's life. Because there are SO many options that can give your baby a better chance.


But when the mother's life is in danger if she doesn't abort? I don't know. I could see it maybe, but I can't say. And rape? That's very hard. It's not the child's fault how they were concieved. But say you were underage, abused in that manner, and forced to have a child? I don't know how I would feel, because it hasn't happened to me. Those are the only reasons I'd be iffy on. But other than that - it's not birth control. It's murder.

If you didn't want to get pregnant, you should have used birth control. Oh! That would be rubbers, pills, patches, or whatever new fangled hormone releasing device they can shove up your lady parts.

That's my three cents.

[Chez Daja]

If you didn't want to get pregnant, you should have used birth control. Oh! That would be rubbers, pills, patches, or whatever new fangled hormone releasing device they can shove up your lady parts.

I agree with this statement a LOT. Ahem. Throw back "IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK, THOUGH!" How many couples do you know using condoms, pills and patches that actually got pregnant? I can't name a single one. The most unreliable would be the condom, which, yeah, sometimes breaks due to men putting it on poorly... and sometimes it isn't even his fault.
But seriously, if the woman can't take the pill, there are still other options.

You name to me three couples who got pregnant using two or more contraceptives, and I'll admit that I'm a little at fault and being a big-head here.

In a way, I'm pro-life. If somebody I was close to got pregnant, I'd want her to think of all the choices she had before thinking of abortion. Of course... when my mother got pregnant, her parents were so angry. Some younger people are afraid of being disowned due to pregnancy.

I think it was Tiffany that mentioned something like "it's one abortion strike and then that's it." In a way, I can agree with this. I mean, if you're raped, chances are, you're not going to want the baby, you may not even want it inside your body. Basically, saying "women have one chance to get an abortion but that's it". Some women have more than one abortion. Is it just me that thinks that sounds really skanky?

I've had a pregnancy scare. It's not pleasant. I'm not even 20 yet. And yeah, we were protected. I got paranoid, but thinking I might've been pregnant worried the shit out of me. On the other hand, I don't know if I'd be able to cope emotionally with destroying a child. It's a touchy subject and I believe it always will be.

I'm pro-life.

[Maridia]

I'm fine with abortion. Everyone is differant and when it comes down to it alot and I mean ALOT of people aren't fit to be parents. Alot of children from the start have messed up lives and I wouldn't want that to happen if life was so bad for myself that I couldn't support even myself, or a kid obviously. I do know of 1 couple that used protection and still things got ****ed up, but they had a miscarriage. In truth I don't care what any religion says, I'm going to dictate my own life and not listen to what is said to be a sin if you don't follow through with having a baby. Cause unless I'd be lucky I'd work a shit job til I die, the kid would be poor and have a meager household, and it's not beneficial for anyone. Yes the kid would survive but if I couldn't take care of myself how could I take care of a child? I'm 19 and not ready for a kid and don't plan on being one for a long time if ever but I do know if something happened and I was in a position where I was going to be doomed from the start I'd say it's best off to. If she's on birth control and I wrap it tight and she still gets pregnant then I did everything I could and I'll do what it takes to make sure there's no unpleasent surprises for me at the end of it all. Call me greedy but I've seen enough **** ups to become one of them when I have my own agenda in life.

[Lucid]

ALOT of people aren't fit to be parents.

This is the reason why adoption exists.

Besides, even if you can't afford a baby doesn't mean it's a bad thing to have one. There are plenty of things you can do and I'm pretty sure you can even go about getting help from government and stuff like that. Some people just don't even try or care though and that's the sad thing. They'd rather blame their terrible life on the baby rather than their own stupidity, and I'm not talking about rape victims... I'm talking about women who go out just to have a good time and don't bother using protection.

[Maridia]

I see how alot of parents in bad financial ways work. I've seen a handful of people in this town alone adopt kids so they get more financial help from the goverment as they spend it on drugs, cause this town has enough out there. My mom worked in the school system and I heard enough stories about kids who came from broken homes, horror stories and how they somedays couldn't even afford lunch. I'd rather have the kid not be born than have the thought of the baby being brought up in a screwed up home with abuse and drugs then having to not suffer and put up with the bullshit only one day to most likely fall into the pit of being what the step parents are.

[Lucid]

Don't adoption agencies make people go through a HUGE and overbearing process to make sure that they're suitable enough to be parents for the child? And even then, don't they sometimes have social workers come and check on how the child is doing?

From what I've heard, you can't just go out and adopt a kid like buying candy. It's a long process that takes months or years to complete so I don't see how frequent drug users could go about adopting...

Also, just because a child is abused or screwed up doesn't mean it can't turn out to be a good thing in the end.
Plenty of abused children have grown up to become social workers or public speakers in an attempt to help other children.
I'm not saying it happens 100% of the time, but if one of these people can help even one child or get a law changed for the better then at least it's one step closer to helping more children.

[Maridia]

Well I had a kid on my bus who the mother was 25 the father was 60 sooo either they've got a weird way to guage who's okay or they're a bit slack. And if the mom who had falling out teeth from her drug abuse wasn't obvious enough then maybe her latching onto the old man cause of the bank account made it even more apparent. I've seen what adoption agencies let through and let slide, I'm all set thanks. I'll take it pro choice.

EDIT:Sorry the real parents were dead by the way I didn't add that, they were foster parents. The real mom went by OD and dad was killed in prison, all winners.

EDIT PART DEUX: Well take that same story and on the end tack on baby grows up to be a serial killer and mass rapist, instead of curing a disease and blows up a bomb in the middle of a city killing thousands of innocent people. It's just as possible as your story is for curing cancer or a disease. Anyone can grow up to do anything but my lack of faith in humanity makes me more pessemistic towards how I would assume the child grows up. Either way if you look at most people and broken homes you'de see how most of them, at least the ones I've seen end up no better, being just going back to the bottle and aimless jobs working with no thoughts of future, love, or meaning, in any of their existance.

[Bleachfangirl]

Read through all the messages in the thread so far, and I think I'll make a note now.

Adoption is great. Getting a chance at life no matter how bad your roots were (drug addicts, idiots, parents that don't want to be parents, parents that can't handle being parents, and any other type of horrible parent) is just another chance to do what you want. I think chances are nice. Kill the kid and there's no chance or possibility of seeing what could have been.

I don't think abortion is the greatest choice. If it's the sake of your life for the baby's then sure, go for it. But why take away the chance for any child to become a person and experience the world? I don't think it's right for someone else to decide what happens to another living being (I guess that means humans here) without their consent. A developing embryo isn't going to be able to tell a desperate "mother" whether it wants to live or not.

Aborting an unborn baby is still killing in my mind. It's not yet conscious or really capable of thought YET, but it will be. If the kid ends up hating his life so much, he or she'll go and kill himself. It's more likely he or she'll end up happy with a foster family though. A baby is not a legal person yet because it's head isn't out of some woman's womb? Seems like a loophole to say that you can kill if if it isn't all there yet. "It's only a lump of meat if only it's body is out." I can't back up my opinion with real facts, but it just doesn't feel right to kill anything that way. So cold-blooded...kind of like killing an animal.

Reading this over, I don't really know what I meant to say. Just that abortion is not a good thing.