Working Too Hard And Being A Parent. A Father's Struggle

[Dimi]

haha Well not me of course. Got ways to go before I decide to even become one.

Anyways, I was bored and I stumbled across this article that caught my interest when I was searching around the house. Its called "Double Daddy" and its talks about the struggle of fathers wanting to provide for their family financially but its costing them the time they want to spend with their kids. But at the same time they want to spend time with their kids but he might worry about his family's income. Follow? Here's a bit of the article....

They struggle between the responsibilities of work and the needs of their families. They have demanding jobs; they have children.

In some cases, they go to work before dawn, or take work home.

They race home to make it in time for their child's game, concert, or play.

They worry that a business trip might take them awat on their son's or daughter's birthday.

And surprise: they're men.

The Super Mom syndrome has jumped genders. Now it's working men who also want to be great fathers.

What has changed to make the working dad's life more stressful?

More is expected of fathers at home these days-and they expect more of themselves-but the demands of the workplace have, if anything, increased in recent years.

The phenomenon of "daddy stress"-as Forbes magazine dubbed it in a recent cover story-affects men from the executive office to the rank and file, and while a growing number of single dads may feel it most, married fathers are hardly immune.

"It's a familiar theme to women and not to men, and not to men's employers," said Linda Dunlap, chairwoman of the psychology department at Martist College in Poughpkeepsie, N.Y., and an expert on families. "These men are sayin, 'I'm working my tail off to get ahead, for the most part of the family, but I'm not spending time with my family. This doesn't make sense.'"

Ryan Streeter, a research fellow in the Welfare Policy Center at Hudson Insititute in Indianapolis, calls the growing trend of men examining their roles as fathers "a national movement."

"There's been an increasing amount of literature, events, commercials, and public service announcements around the country in the last five years that have targeted the need for fathers to be engaged in their children's lives," Streeter said. "A group of largely men said it's time to take responsibility for their children not only economically, but emotionally and spiritually. Ther'es a nation consciousness around this matter."

The next step has to be a shift in the workplace mentality that says it's OK for a woman to take time off to stay home with a sick child or attend a child's football game, but it's not OK for a dad to do the same thing.

"It's popular to say there needs to be workplace flexibility for men," Steeter said, "but in genral, corporations have the expectation for men to put business over family."

So my questions on the article are this...

1) Do you agree with what the message this article is trying to put out about fathers?

2) Do you believe that men should put work over family? Why or why not?

3) Do you think that for parents, should there be equal parenting roles or should one role be higher then the other meaning for one to care for their children while the other one works and tries to earn the income?

[Bleachfangirl]

1) Do you agree with what the message this article is trying to put out about fathers? It might help that I understood what it was trying to say about them. Fathers need to be in their children's lives? Fathers should be thought to as more than a household's income? Father's are too busy to care for family? I don't know. It just seems like this is saying men are busy, but don't want to be. Depends on the person, but yeah. This is true. Almost all parents want to be a part of their child's life. No caring parent wants to purposely miss out on something important that's going on. Fathers are busy and caring. Mothers are busy and caring too. I agree.

2) Do you believe that men should put work over family? Why or why not?
Depends on the financial situation, but even if the family is about to go bankrupt, the man has to care about his family. "I'm going to work for my boss until he loves me enough to give me a raise" and "Don't talk to me son, I'm busy working" aren't good. Puts stress on the family and makes the father too distant. If all you think about is work, money, and success, you'll end up forgetting what all the work is for. That's not good.

3) Do you think that for parents, should there be equal parenting roles or should one role be higher then the other meaning for one to care for their children while the other one works and tries to earn the income?
Equal parenting roles are nice. Don't want the kids being too distant from any one parent. If just one person makes all the income, there'll also be trouble in the house. If both parents do the same things and all the duties are balanced, both of them should have equal time to spend with their kids and each other. I don't know if that will work out for everyone, but either way, doing things equally is still the right way to do things.


Just odd thoughts. I still didn't understand the message of the article though...

[vevuxking102]

I don't really see the struggle fathers have to go through. They always seem like lazy deadbeats, and worthless parents. I guess I'm just talking on my experiences, but I assume the majority of fathers are simply worthless and say they are struggling because they are lazy. Agree? Or disagree?

1) Do you agree with what the message this article is trying to put out about fathers?

Answer: Not really, it makes it out like fathers want to be parents, when I don't think most do...

2) Do you believe that men should put work over family? Why or why not?

Answer: Sure, if it suits them. Why not?

3) Do you think that for parents, should there be equal parenting roles or should one role be higher then the other meaning for one to care for their children while the other one works and tries to earn the income?

There should be equal. If not, what's the point in there being two parents?

[Violet]

1) Do you agree with what the message this article is trying to put out about fathers? Everyone is a different unique individual. Now days, you can't say it's common for men to be slobs and uncaring. That's a load of bullshit, as this is the new day and age. Not all of us live in quaker land. My brother was a hardworking man and he basically cleaned the house, changed the kids diapers, and cooked. Want to know what his wife was doing? She was sleeping in bed all day. And no, she wasn't sick. My brother was the one who was sick. I don't want to hear this "all men are lazy bastards and deadbeats" shit. If someone thinks like that, then they're just being bitter and should go join a feminist colony.

2) Do you believe that men should put work over family? Why or why not?
I believe there needs to be a sense of responsibility. However, if it's possible for the dad to get a day off on holidays, then he should take that opportunity. If there was no way he could take the day off, then the guilt is not on him unless you want him to lose his job and have even worse family issues.


3) Do you think that for parents, should there be equal parenting roles or should one role be higher than the other meaning for one to care for their children while the other one works and tries to earn the income? Personally, for me, I would rather have my husband work so I could stay home and look after my children. When the kids got old enough to stay home by themselves, then I would go and get a job as well.

[OceanEyes28]

Aw, poor daddies.

And while I agree that there are some shameful fathers in the world, there are also some really good ones. I was blessed with a wonderful father who continues to be someone I look up to, so my first reaction to the article was sympathy.

The ideal situation, in my opinion, would be both mother and father sharing the employment load and still having plenty of time to raise their children. Good luck, right?

My example comes primarily from my father. My parents are divorced and my dad got primary custody of my brother and me. For a couple years, he played both traditional mother and father roles to the best of his ability. He worked hard as a psychiatrist and then he came home and made us dinner (and I mean actually cooked) and cleaned house. Sometimes we had to stay at daycare after school, and we stayed with our mom the weekends he was on call. But I never felt neglected, and I think we really lucked out in our father's ability to make time for us around his job. I wish all kids got the benefit of that flexibility.

I really don't know what kind of person I would be without the influence of my dad and I don't think I'd care to find out. I love my mom, don't get me wrong, but we're talking daddies.

I agree with the article's point that dads can be put under a lot of stress these days. And I agree that employers should be more understanding in allowing devoted fathers time to take care of their kids, especially if it's a single dad like mine.

Work over family? No, I don't think that's best. Careers are important, but my heart goes out to fathers who miss their kids grow up and then realize it when it's too late. Both an occupation and a family contain important events that I think should be experienced equally. I'm hoping to find a balance.

And then I've already mentioned the third question. For me, personally, I don't think I would be satisfied unless I was doing something I love and challenging myself in the workplace, and the kind of guy I find attractive wouldn't be either. But at the same time, I find attentive fathers completely adorable and I'd like nothing less for my own children. It's a hard situation, and that attitude probably doesn't help daddy stress.

Still, it's possible to do both. I've seen it in my own dad and I've seen it with other dads. It's hard to beat a good dad.

[Chez Daja]

Hmph. My dad... well, he was an iffy character. He was this raging alcoholic for a long time... Buuuut... even though that sucked a Hell of a lot, and even though his conversational topics annoy the crap out of me, he's always kind of paid the rent and paid for food here and there so it's not as if he's a jobless slob or anything... He was only super caring of me when I was really little, and when I grew up, we kind of stopped talking, so I don't really have much of an opinion of the message trying to be projected here.

I think caring dads are great, though. I know a few of them who would do anything for their kids and that's awesome in my opinion.

As for number two of your questions, I agree with Ann. I don't think work should come first, but it should be important. Family comes first. But that doesn't mean you don't need a job to protect that family.

As for three, I'm not sure. I think that really depends on the couple... However, I can't really make up an opinion on that because I haven't really been in that situation. When my parent figured it out the first few times, the reuslt wasn't the best it could've been.

I don't really see the struggle fathers have to go through. They always seem like lazy deadbeats, and worthless parents. I guess I'm just talking on my experiences, but I assume the majority of fathers are simply worthless and say they are struggling because they are lazy. Agree? Or disagree?

Disagree. I don't understand what you're getting at here. Surely you know of at least one father that isn't a "worthless jackass". I don't think it's completely responsible to generalize all fathers.

As for the thing about most fathers not wanting to be fathers? I can't agree with that either. I know that a lot of them don't want to be... But then, that's their own fault, isn't it?

I find it really hard to relate to, or to really believe any of your posts in any shape or form. That scares me.

[Dimi]

Orignally posted by Chez Daja
Hmph. My dad... well, he was an iffy character. He was this raging alcoholic for a long time... Buuuut... even though that sucked a Hell of a lot, and even though his conversational topics annoy the crap out of me, he's always kind of paid the rent and paid for food here and there so it's not as if he's a jobless slob or anything... He was only super caring of me when I was really little, and when I grew up, we kind of stopped talking, so I don't really have much of an opinion of the message trying to be projected here.

I'm sorry to hear that Chez. I can totally relate to the "alcoholic" dad thing. I grew up with my dad's alcoholism. He was in and out of jail when I was young. And it did get worse to the point where he had gotten abusive with my mom till she stood up for herself one day and was sent back to jail for a year with "Child endangerment" and "assualt". He really didn't start to change his ways and clean up after going to anger management and willing to work things out with my mom. As of now, his drinking has gotten much better. He slips from time to time but needless to say, I'm glad he's changed for the better.

Between my mother and my father, my mom is the more financial and emotional one than my father is. My dad likes to be in his own little world with happy thoughts. He doesn't like to deal with stuff. I guess it has something to do with his childhood based on few things he's mentioned to me but just viewing at my parents, I can't really say that my father was there for me. I mean, he was there off and on while growing up. He is here much more now then he was. But he wasn't one of those "hard working dads" that didn't have time for me. He had time for the bottle but not for me. Is there anger there? Yeah. Do I hate him? No.

But with my personal life with the topic I've posted, I can't generalize all dads as "deadbeats and worthless." Although my own dad is one, doesn't mean the rest are. Even when I become a father, I would want a better life and a better relationship with my kids then what my father had have with me.

[Furore]

Personally, for me, I would rather have my husband work so I could stay home and look after my children. When the kids got old enough to stay home by themselves, then I would go and get a job as well.

Alrighty. I just have to make sure my work hours aren't too long. <3

1) Do you agree with what the message this article is trying to put out about fathers?

In a lot of cases, yeah. But it depends on the hours they work. There are four hour day, three day a week cases, and twelve hour a day, 7 days a week cases. It also depends on sleeping patterns and other parts of the father's lives. But yeah, some are probably suffering this scenario big time.

2) Do you believe that men should put work over family? Why or why not?

I believe family should come first BUT part of that is making money to support the family. Mainly as the wages can provide the family with more security. It keeps more bases covered.

3) Do you think that for parents, should there be equal parenting roles or should one role be higher then the other meaning for one to care for their children while the other one works and tries to earn the income?

I think this depends on the family in question. Different families would want different things. Some families have worker mums and stay at home dads. Others may have some sort of a balance. Whatever works I guess.

[vevuxking102]

Disagree. I don't understand what you're getting at here.

I'm saying most parents, especially fathers, are worthless. It's one of the reasons I became a Christian, since it teaches family is bad.

Disagree. I don't understand what you're getting at here.

I don't personally, but I'm sure they exist.

I don't think it's completely responsible to generalize all fathers.

What do you mean?

As for the thing about most fathers not wanting to be fathers? I can't agree with that either.

Aren't most children mistakes?

I know that a lot of them don't want to be... But then, that's their own fault, isn't it?

Couldn't they just urge the woman to get an abortion or put the baby on adoption or something?

I find it really hard to relate to, or to really believe any of your posts in any shape or form. That scares me.

Um, okay.

[Sean]

Growing up my dad always worked crazy hours, and I rarely ever saw him awake, because he'd be hopping from second to third shift left and right, so he'd be at work when I came home from school, or he'd be asleep getting ready to go in, ect ect. It wasn't until I was in the 7th grade that I actually ever got to really spend time with my dad; but only because he became disabled due to an accident at work and had two massive surgeries on his spine to repair the damage; both of which left him in pain for the rest of his life.

My teenage years were a bitch because of my dad wasn't on pain killers, then he wasn't. So I either dealt with a dad who was on pain medication (I'm sure you can all imagine what someone on pain killers acts like on a normal basis) or I was dealing with a man who was touchy, bitching about the smallest things, and constantly yelling about something.

That affected me a lot more than I thought it did, and I picked up a LOT of his tendencies into my late teens (my aggression, rage, anger management issues, ect) that I spent the better part of 4 years working on them.

But he was always there for me. I never once wished I had a different father, and I never looked down on him for anything he ever did. Now my dad's 58, is still off-and-on from pain killers, has had 4 strokes, can barely walk, and is starting dementia.

I guess I'd want to be the kind of father he was whenever I have children. He was always there for me enough for it to matter; he took me places, bought me little things here or there (some type of soda, ect) and always made me feel good when I was a kid. I have fond memories of loving my dad dearly, even if I only REALLY saw him once or twice a week.

I already know that, the career path I'm on, will lead me down the same road; crazy, long hours, little home time spent awake, ect, and I only hope I can be as good of a father as my dad was to me.

[Lucid]

I'm saying most parents, especially fathers, are worthless. It's one of the reasons I became a Christian, since it teaches family is bad.

Couldn't they just urge the woman to get an abortion or put the baby on adoption or something?

What? This doesn't make any sense and it doesn't sound very Christian like at all. What kind of Bible are you reading?

My Dad sure as hell wasn't a worthless deadbeat. He gave up his dream of wanting to become a singer in order to get a job that would give him an income right away so that he could provide for his family. He never complained that he had to give up his dream either.

[vevuxking102]

What? This doesn't make any sense and it doesn't sound very Christian like at all.

Uh, why not? The Bible basically says what I say about parenting.

From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two, and two against three. I have come to set son against father. Daughter against mother. And daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. If anyone does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:35, Luke 12:51-14:26

Now of course there are loving and caring parents, but I believe that is in the minority, and I believe Jesus was referring to the majority of parents and families being worthless.

You emphasized the abortion bit of my post, and answered it with, "That doesn't sound very Christian at all." Why not? Just because fat televangelist say Abortion is bad doesn't mean Christianity teaches it is.

My Dad sure as hell wasn't a worthless deadbeat. He gave up his dream of wanting to become a singer in order to get a job that would give him an income right away so that he could provide for his family. He never complained that he had to give up his dream either.

That does sound kind of weird...

[Lucid]

You obviously have no real understanding of the Bible...

That has nothing to do with parenting.
It's talking about how the truth of his message will divide families...as in those who accept his message will be hated by those in his family who don't, or vice versa.

And how can you say what I said sounds weird when you obviously don't understand any of the context of what you're trying to say.

[vevuxking102]

You obviously have no real understanding of the Bible...

That has nothing to do with parenting.
It's talking about how the truth of his message will divide families...as in those who accept his message will be hated by those in his family who don't, or vice versa.

If it meant this, the Bible would say it. But it says Jesus came to divide and destroy the very concept of families. Something I agree with completely. They are worthless.

And how can you say what I said sounds weird when you obviously don't understand any of the context of what you're trying to say.

Because your stories are weird.

[Pete]

Way to take things out of context there, buddy. Here's the entire passage.

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25 “It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!
26 “Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 “What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops. 28 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 “Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 “But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 “So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.
32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 “But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 “For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36 and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.
37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 “And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 “He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

The passage is not referring to a war between families, but rather choosing to love and obey Jesus over each individual family member. It's all about discipleship Just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean it's necessarily true, either. Samson, David and Goliath, etc.

I think most parents do the best that they can for their kids. Yes, there are some deadbeat dads, but even in divorced homes, the father still wants to see his kids if he isn't given custody. What everyone hears about are the outstanding cases of terrible parents. Yes, these people exist, and it's unfortunate, but I'm willing to bet that parents want the best for their children.

I feel that this transcends race, religion, etc, because fathers see their children as their own creation, something that only they could have made, and for most, they want to see that creation grow and prosper. It is natural for both parents to see this creation of theirs have the best life that it can. Granted, parents cannot always be there for their kids, and that's unfortunate, but I'm sure they wish they could be.

I have to say that my father was and still is one of the best. He worked nights until my brother and I were old enough to stay home alone. He'd watch us in the mornings/afternoons and would sleep while we were at school. Then he'd help us with homework or take us to or coach practices. When my mom got home from her job, he'd go to sleep until maybe 11pm, where he'd start his night shift. He did what he had to to make sure that we were financially secure and being watched, WHILE spending quality time with him.

[vevuxking102]

Way to take things out of context there, buddy. Here's the entire passage.

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25 “It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!
26 “Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 “What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops. 28 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 “Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 “But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 “So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.
32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 “But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 “For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36 and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.
37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 “And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 “He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

The passage is not referring to a war between families

But the entire passage you cited says that. I love it how all these American false Christians will read a verse, not like it, and then just reinterpret it to their liking. The hottest spots of Hell await them.

but rather choosing to love and obey Jesus over each individual family member.

It doesn't say that at all. For example, a few desperate false prophets attempt to dismiss this verse claiming that the word 'hate' here really doesn't mean what it says. The problem with this approach boarders on complete deception and the ironic dismissal of the Bible and Biblical scholarship. The word 'hate' here comes from the ancient Greek word 'miseo' which means hate (from the primary 'misos' hatred). If any synonym could substitute for this word, it would come from a word like 'detest,' 'loath,' or 'despise.' Moreover, virtually all Bibles translate the term as hate. To deny this intent means to deny the Bible and the word of Jesus.

. It's all about discipleship Just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean it's necessarily true, either. Samson, David and Goliath, etc.

Well, of course, defend a Book that isn't true to it's word. Right? Everything the Bible says is true.

I think most parents do the best that they can for their kids.

And flying monkeys come from my mouth.

Yes, there are some deadbeat dads, but even in divorced homes, the father still wants to see his kids if he isn't given custody.

So?

What everyone hears about are the outstanding cases of terrible parents. Yes, these people exist, and it's unfortunate, but I'm willing to bet that parents want the best for their children.

No, they want to get something out of them. Usually money.

I feel that this transcends race, religion, etc, because fathers see their children as their own creation, something that only they could have made, and for most, they want to see that creation grow and prosper.

If they see them as their own creation, then Hell awaits them for going against the word of God. And it's just a silly concept as well.

I have to say that my father was and still is one of the best. He worked nights until my brother and I were old enough to stay home alone. He'd watch us in the mornings/afternoons and would sleep while we were at school. Then he'd help us with homework or take us to or coach practices. When my mom got home from her job, he'd go to sleep until maybe 11pm, where he'd start his night shift. He did what he had to to make sure that we were financially secure and being watched, WHILE spending quality time with him.

Right...and if that's true, that's the minority. Since families, as Jesus said, are usually worthless.

[Lucid]

This is starting to sound like less of a religious argument, and more of a "someone has some serious father issues" sort of thing...

Also, I still don't see how you think abortion is okay.

[Pete]

The word hate isn't in that passage at all. The Bible can be interpreted any which way one pleases, which means even people like you can twist it to fit whatever warped logic you wish. This is honestly just as bad as some hicks down south back in the 1800s claiming that slavery is ok because it's in the Bible.

Being a Christian does not mean following the Bible and believing every word as true. Certain sects of Christians, like the evangelicals do and if you are, they good for you, but I'm Roman Catholic. I believe that the Bible was inspired by God, and the are largely used to teach lessons, much like fables.

An example of how the Bible can be interpreted is the story of the father who gives both of his sons a good deal of money. One son goes and invests it in sheep and cattle, the other buries it in the ground. The father is more pleased at the son who spent his money by investing it, because his investments will yield greater profit, as opposed to the money that's sitting there. While this certainly could have happened, the lesson to be learned from it is that money serves no purpose when it's buried or just hidden away; you have to make your money work for you. See? Interpretation of the Bible.

Just because you've gotten a shitty deal from your parents doesn't mean that you have to take it out on everyone else who didn't.

[Cain Highwind]

This is starting to sound like less of a religious argument, and more of a "someone has some serious father issues" sort of thing...

I agree I think something in our topics trigger something angry in her based off past experiences. She takes things WAYYYY over the top seriously.

Well welcome to bannage. If everyone else can please get back on topic, thanks.

[Draken Benvolaid]

My dad explained it as a balancing act.

You need to balance you job with each child, and your establishment(home), your sleep habits, your bills, your free time(if any), and your happiness together.

Figuring out the balance is the easy part, keeping it together is the hard part.