What the hell happened to freedom of speech?

[Unknown Entity]

I could get a crimminal record if I go along with the protest at my old school. I think it's a load of bs. ><

I don't see how I'm doing anything wrong - I'm protesting the schools rights to bring some good to the school. The Headteacher is making plans no one is happy about, so I opened a gateway on Facebook so everyone could submit their opinions. With that, I get a phone call from the Head telling me what I'm doing is wrong.

If I was still at the school, I'd have started another riot like back in the day anyway, so doing it from outside the school makes no difference to me.

I understand it could get dangerous, and she is looking out for people (I respect her for that), but this is how we feel we can show her EVERYONE is against it.

This thread is'nt just about the situation I'm in - it's about all the times you've been let down like I have by something along these lines, or about how shite the government is at tackling issues that the people want to see dealt with.

[RagnaToad]

That's really odd. Did they actually threaten to inform the police or something? I can't imagine why they would do that. You're not even doing a sit-in or anything so it's just weird that the school would have something against a protest that is taken seriously by the protesters.

Isn't school supposed to stimulate assertiveness, individuality, dialogue with opponents and standing up for your rights?

And exactly what are the changes no one seems to want, UE?

I'll get back to this issue when I know exactly what the problem is, since I don't know if you're protest is a serious mature action. Although that shouldn't really matter, protest is a right.

[IceColdPillow]

Thats a load regardless of what the situation is, as long as you stay peaceful, you're aloud to protest anything you want.Governments and authority get so sucked up in their own power [Iran situation], they threaten the protestors with violence.

In america, the first amendement is dead, any word or sentence that offends someone gets you publicly humiliated, job loss or defamation of their own personal life. Everyone should join me for the revolution! xD.
Anyhow, what was your school doing you wanted to protest about?

[Unknown Entity]

And exactly what are the changes no one seems to want, UE?

Well a few things actually.

The Head wants to combine the schools faculties (lesson types), which means loads of the teachers are going to lose jobs. All the teachers on the firing line are the ones who are the face of the school, and... well, just the best at what they do. Also, there is never going to be a right time to sack the teachers for the students: the ones taking GCSEs will be effected. What the Head teacher should have done was offer the teachers voluntary redundancy - the teachers are at the moment being forced from their positions. The decision has not yet been made, however we don't have long left before it is made (Monday).

Secondly, my Head of year sadly passed away in December 2007, and since then a memorial was built in her honor. She gave her best years to that school, and made it what it was. The memorial was made this time last year, yet hasn't been given a place at the school yet - it is still in storage, in a OUT-DOOR SHOWER ROOM, which to me and many others is rather disrespectful.

She also brought up an idea about changing the schools name. The school has forever had the name Haggerston, and to change it isn't right - people know the school as Haggerston.

[Volendral]

Isn't school supposed to stimulate assertiveness, individuality, dialogue with opponents and standing up for your rights?

Actualy, studies show that the exact opposite holds true. Schools, for the most part, make people obey authority figures. So they do as they're told and don't question. It's pretty damn sad.

[RagnaToad]

Well a few things actually.

The Head wants to combine the schools faculties (lesson types), which means loads of the teachers are going to lose jobs. All the teachers on the firing line are the ones who are the face of the school, and... well, just the best at what they do. Also, there is never going to be a right time to sack the teachers for the students: the ones taking GCSEs will be effected. What the Head teacher should have done was offer the teachers voluntary redundancy - the teachers are at the moment being forced from their positions. The decision has not yet been made, however we don't have long left before it is made (Monday).

Secondly, my Head of year sadly passed away in December 2007, and since then a memorial was built in her honor. She gave her best years to that school, and made it what it was. The memorial was made this time last year, yet hasn't been given a place at the school yet - it is still in storage, in a OUT-DOOR SHOWER ROOM, which to me and many others is rather disrespectful.

She also brought up an idea about changing the schools name. The school has forever had the name Haggerston, and to change it isn't right - people know the school as Haggerston.

What is the reason for the teachers losing their jobs? Some necessary changes? School budget?

The memorial thing is not really respectful but it has nothing to do with the rest it seems. So I can see why the Head would see your "little protest" (as they probably call it) as too personal. You should separate personal issues with the school from things like redundances.

And changing the school's name is no reason for protest in my opinion. Things change. It might not feel right to you, but the school's still going to be there when you're not involved with it anymore.

So I agree on the protest against the teachers losing their jobs, but I think you'll be better heard if you just leave those other 2 issues aside. It might look like you're just dissing on the school otherwise.

[Unknown Entity]

What is the reason for the teachers losing their jobs? Some necessary changes? School budget?

The memorial thing is not really respectful but it has nothing to do with the rest it seems. So I can see why the Head would see your "little protest" (as they probably call it) as too personal. You should separate personal issues with the school from things like redundances.

And changing the school's name is no reason for protest in my opinion. Things change. It might not feel right to you, but the school's still going to be there when you're not involved with it anymore.

So I agree on the protest against the teachers losing their jobs, but I think you'll be better heard if you just leave those other 2 issues aside. It might look like you're just dissing on the school otherwise.

I wouldn't mind, but indeed the groups primary aim is to get the Headteacher to keep things the way they are so that no jobs are lost. Also, I'm not the only one who shares these thoughts and ideas - I'm the mug who set up the group on facebook. =/

So far as yet, there isn't a protest planned. There has been talk of one, but no solid plans to actually carry one out. And it's not my "little" protest. XD

The Head just wants to re-structure the school without consulting the students and staff. She has made all these plans, and the students and staff have just got to live with them. Everyone there is crying out for help, but she seems blind to it. I don't think it has anything to do with the funds, because the playground has just been done up with a few fancy flower pots and benches. =/

[Sasquatch]

I'd like to take this topic and branch off of it, if I may. Where it goes, it goes. I'd be happy to make the second part into a new thread, if necessary, or for it to be moved, if deemed necessary.

First, what you need to do, Unknown Entity, is ask that person how exactly what you're doing is legally wrong. If you no longer attend that school, they can't punish you for it anyway -- and there's a difference in, "I think what you're doing is wrong," and, "what you're doing is wrong and illegal." If they think it's wrong, too damn bad for them. I'm sure everybody thinks protests against their policies are wrong. If it's actually illegal (not "against school code/policy", as that's not legally binding to non-students and non-faculty), ask how it's illegal. What laws would be broken, what crimes would be committed, what charges would be brought against you. (Not students or faculty members that participate, but you.)

And if they can't answer that, tell 'em to shove it.

...

Now, onto a broader subject.

...

Protesting, according to the United States Defense Department, is terrorism.

That's right, folks. According to Obama's DoD, participating in a protest is considered "low-level terrorism".

Now, you could say, oh, this has nothing to do with Obama. Unfortunately for that argument, Obama appointed the Secretary of Defense, who appointed his staff, who wrote this test -- the test which refers to participating in protests as "low-level terrorism".

You could also say that this test, and thus the classification of protesting as participating in terrorism, has existed since long before Obama or his Cabinet members took office. In response to that, let me ask: Would anybody really believe that, as much as Bush was scrutinized and accused of restricting freedoms of dissenters and opponents, Bush's DoD could classify protesting as terrorism and nobody would have ever found out about it?

Combine this with Obama's Department of Homeland Security classifying veterans, gun rights advocates, supporters of less federal government control, pro-life advocates, Servicemembers, and nearly every other typically-conservative demographic as more likely to be recruited into extremist radical groups, and you have everything people accused Bush of doing, but this time it's actually happening.

(Oh, yeah -- did y'all hear about the right-wing extremist who shot up the Holocaust Museum in D.C., killing a security guard? Yeah, he wasn't right-wing, he was a socialist, and he hated Christianity. But nooooooo, mainstream media isn't biased or anything ...)

[OceanEyes28]

I did hear about that. I read a page from his blog, too. Pretty scary. Really, though... right-wing, left-wing, socialist, religious or not... I don't think which "team" he was on matters so much as the fact that he was crazy. And I don't know why people needs to group this crazy man with other mostly sane people. The guy probably had Alzheimer's that started in his fontal lobe (judgement, regulates behavior) rather than in the temporal lobe (memory). That can happen. And he was in his 80's. Chances are, he has the disease.

But anyway.

That sucks, Entity. Sorry you're having to deal with all that. I experienced something similar with the college I'm attending now. My department got cleaned out and new people came in. It ended up working out okay for the students, but I know the fired professors felt totally shafted.

And one time I had a math teacher who tried to fail me because she lost my notebook. I was a straight A student, most responsible kid in the class... I turned in the notebook. She had a conference with my parents and the principal and ended up freaking out, screaming, and crying. She wasn't there too much longer.

[Clint]

That's actually quite common, Entity. See, when somebody enters into a school, especially if you're a minor, as you are, the school acts sort of like a courtroom, equipped with it's own set of laws and private security, which is precisely the reason why locker and bag searches are legal even without a permit. In an institution like that, if you say something disrespectful or that goes against the way that they do things, you're in contempt. Challenging school rights is most certainly in contempt of that institution, and even off school grounds, it isn't tolerated lightly.

Every institution in a democratic society respects the rights of individual's freedom of speech and demonstration, but certain institutions, such as a courtroom, a police station, or a school, have restrictions on how much of these freedoms are allowed. If everybody were to speak their minds, it would dishonor everything that those institutions stand for, and therefore lower it's standards. However, if you were to take the matter privately with administration of your school, it would be an entirely different situation.

[Furore]

Is Freedom of Speech actually a truth in any society?
I understand western countries in general seem to have more freedom than other areas, but most places seem to want people shutting up if they say the wrong thing.

To me these days it would seem that Freedom of Speech is allowed where it doesn't cause any undue harm to those in power and is more of a tool used by those in powers to foster an illusion that every citizen is 'free'.

In the US you can go back to the Patriot Act of 2001 and looking through what the changes in law allow the authorities to do, I'd personally hate being around there. No damn privacy. And I've heard some very grisly tales of what happened when people were so much as suspected of having a link to a terrorism...

Australia isn't too good neither though. Instead of having the government spy on us, we're possibly gonna go the route of forced censorship. They started with various art (including movies and games) and of late there was that shit about filtering the internet.

As far as I'm concerned 'freedom of speech' for me is having the ability to tell someone exactly what I want. And some of the time I could get legally punished for it. Thankfully the bullies hired by the authorities aren't always loyal and those that are, aren't always capable.