Is it really heroic to be a murderer???

[winterborn86]

This is about some shootings that happened in the UK and how the guy responsible for it is being branded a "Hero" Sorry theres a little bit to read but below is what happened.

The 2010 Northumbria Police manhunt was a major police operation in North East England in which armed police officers under the command of the Northumbria Police force attempted to apprehend Raoul Moat, a 37-year-old man from Newcastle upon Tyne recently released from Durham Prison. Moat, armed with a sawn-off shotgun, was believed to have shot three people, his ex-girlfriend Samantha Stobbart, her new partner Chris Brown, and a police officer, David Rathband. Brown was killed, while Stobbart and Rathband remain hospitalised, seriously injured. After six days on the run, on 9 July Moat was recognised by police and contained in the open, leading to a standoff. After nearly six hours of negotiation, Moat shot himself in the early hours of 10 July, and was later pronounced dead at Newcastle General Hospital. The operation took place across the entire Northumbria Police area, which covers both the metropolitan county of Tyne and Wear and the rural county of Northumberland.

The manhunt began after the shootings of Stobbart and Brown in the early hours of 3 July 2010 in Birtley, Gateshead. Nearly 22 hours later, the shooting of traffic police officer Rathband parked up in East Denton, Newcastle, was linked to Moat. It soon emerged that Moat was believed to have a grudge against the police after Stobbart had, out of fear, lied to Moat about being in a relationship with a police officer. Shortly after his release, Moat posted threats to police and others on his Facebook profile. Rathband appeared to have been targeted randomly simply for being an officer, while Moat also made further detailed threats in two subsequent letters and several phone calls to police that he would kill any officer that attempted to stop him. A former bouncer and bodybuilder, Moat was reported to be prone to bouts of anger known as "roid rage", due to steroid abuse. Both the police and some of his relatives made several appeals for him to give himself up for the sake of his children. After a sighting on the night of 5 July in an armed robbery at Seaton Delaval on the Northumberland coast, on 6 July it was announced Moat was believed to be in Rothbury in central Northumberland, where the manhunt remained focused with several further suspected sightings, until the final confrontation, beside the river on Riverside, Rothbury.

The manhunt lasted for almost seven days, and was described as the largest in modern British history, involving 160 armed officers and Armed Response Vehicles, many seconded for the operation from several other police forces. Police also used sniper teams, helicopters and dogs, armoured anti-terrorist police vehicles from Northern Ireland, and even a Royal Air Force jet for reconnaissance. In the course of the hunt there were several raids and false alarms across the region. With Moat believed to be sleeping rough, his abandoned camp-sites and property were found as he evaded capture. Two exclusion zones were set up, first around Rothbury, and then the nearby Cragside Estate, while armed guards were also posted outside schools in Rothbury after police revealed that they believed Moat posed a threat to the wider public. Several people were arrested during the hunt and after Moat's death, suspected of assisting him with equipment, information, and in evading capture and selecting targets. Two of these men that were arrested in Rothbury had initially been believed to have been hostages from the Birtley shooting.

On 5 July, Northumbria Police announced it had been informed by Durham Prison on 2 July that Moat had intended to harm his girlfriend, and as a result the force voluntarily referred the case to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC). Following the final confrontation, the IPCC expanded the investigation to include the immediate events leading up to Moat's death, but ruled out investigating how the manhunt itself had been conducted.

Now this man is being called a hero, a legend.

Do you think this is right? I for one do NOT think it is. Below is todays newspaper artical. How is fair on the family who lost a family member? It's disguting and makes me sick that people out there are supporting a murderer, because he shot a policeman and because his ex "deserved" to be shot.

Sick support for killer Raoul Moat | The Sun |News

Whats your opinons for this? Do you agree with his actions? Do you think this man should be known as a Hero?

[Pete]

This is pathetic on so many levels.

1. He was in jail for attacking a child, class act.
2. He killed people in a jealous rage. No ****ing wonder his girl left him.
3. It took THAT much support for a manhunt in a small area. This was a semi retarded roid monkey. He may LOOK like Rambo, but Rambo he is not.
4. People actually sympathize with him? Cops in NY would have put about 50 rounds in him without flinching; Jesse Jackson would come out and cry police brutality, and I would laugh.

I can understand that people don't like cops, but you can't always hate on them every time they do their jobs. People bitch about the job they do, and then get all upset when they don't come to THEIR aid quickly enough, or bitch when there's a crime in their neighborhood. "Oh, where are the cops, oh they're probably out harassing innocent citizens while the real criminals run all over." But then when two crimes happen in a week, it's "Oh, we need more police," and then "Oh thank God the police were here to stop people from breaking in to my house."

They can't win. It's the same anytime a cop has to use his weapon and take a life. The friends and family of the victim will always play the "Oh, my little Johnny could never go on a killing spree. NO, he would never become a serial killer. He was only taking that bloody knife back from the butcher. He's such a good boy."

Case in point, people will see what they want to see, and most people are stupid.

[ZantetsukeN]

In absolutely no sense of the word is that guy a 'hero'. I can't believe people actually sympathise with him. What about the people he killed/injured and their families? He hasn't only ended and shattered lives of the victims, but also destroyed their families' lives too.

It's a shame that some people can sympathise with him, because it just reinforces the fact that there are a lot of stupid people in the world.

[Halie]

Yeah, my dad was telling me about this yesterday. I've seen loads of stuff about it on Facebook, too. All groups saying 'Moaty you legend' and whatnot. Pretty sick, but that's the human race for you . I mean, killing people because your girlfriend cheated on you... talk about a loose cannon. Couldn't he have just screwed some other chick? He works at a friggin night club, not like he had limited access. >.>;

ANYHOO. I thought I'd show this video here about ex-footballer Gazza being interviewed on Real Radio, absolutely off his face, talking about how he knew the guy and whatnot and saying that he could try and talk him out of shooting himself.

YouTube - Gazza interview about Raoul Moat on Real Radio North-East **FULL LENGTH** Paul Gascoigne

Quite frankly, I pissed myself.

Even so, the hilariously drunk Gazza interview aside, best regards to the families who've lost loved-ones.

[Xithor]

How can these people denote him as a legend? He is a murderer and a sick person all together. I don't believe that some people are just twisted and they have no control over it, they make a choice to do the things that they do and there is no getting around that.

He killed people, you can't do that on accident, and you sure as hell can't be a hero by murdering people. Are people that naive these days to call him a hero? I would like to hear what exactly makes him a hero or a legend in their eyes. I'd like to see them talk to the mother of the Chris Brown who was part of the killings that took place and try to call this guy a hero. Can't they step into someone elses shoes for a moment and think about how they would feel if he killed their son or family member. I would want his blood, I'd never hail him as a hero.

If you're going to call him a legend just because he was able to evade the police for so long and draw so much attention that is simply ridiculous. The police are doing their job to the best of their ability but everyone wants to make them out to be the bad guy. Yes some cops are hard headed and stubborn and think they can make or break the rules but most of them are caring people who just want to help. Calling this guy a hero is like cheering on a virus that hits someone and continues to escape the grasp of a talented physician, the virus is killing someone and you're cheering for it? That doesn't make any sense at all. He is more of a coward to me for taking his own life, not man enough to face the consequences of his actions.

EDIT: Just vented a little bit about it on the idiotic facebook page definitely rated R stuff lol

[Unknown Entity]

The support is absolutely twisted and vile. Putting the police officers to one side, this man abused his child, raped and beat his girlfriend, and had served time only to be let out of prison to go on the rampage and attempt to kill three people (one of which was a succeeded murder - the other two remain in hospital). And people are supporting this?

A "hero" is someone you can look up to, and admire because of a good deed(s). Moat isn't a hero. I couldn't care less if this man was mentally challenged - there are millions of other mentally challenged people in the world, but they're not all picking up illegal weapons and killing people.

The police officers are the heroes for doing what they could to bring justice. Now there are reports of the officer who fired the taser at him killed him by making him pull the trigger of the gun he had to his head... the way I see it, he was dead anyway. He had the gun to his head, and I'm pretty sure he'd have pulled it anyway. If there was a chance that he'd survive, he'd be spending the rest of his days going from prison to prison.

How on earth can a monster like Raoul Moat be hailed a hero? - Telegraph

The comments in the facebook groups supporting him sicken me. These people are proper British scum... and I'm supposed to be proud of my country?

[Dodie16]

Honestly, it almost seems like a sick joke, but I'm sure that those people hailing him as a hero really do think he is. I personally don't see how any sane person would even take his side on the matter. It's pretty disrespectful to the families who lost someone or was injured from his actions.

Just finished checking out that FB page, and wow... Seriously? I'm sure they would all be singing a different tune if someone they loved was hurt by that man.

[Furore]

Without even looking into this yet, are normal people calling him a hero or are the chans celebrating him as 'an Hero' (which has a completely different meaning)?

I guess it wouldn't surprise me either way. These days if you're in an authoritative role it seems to be 'cool' for people to hate you for no real reason. The officer who died and his family have my sympathies and I feel anyone glorifying that bastard's actions is almost as much a monster as he is.

[Storm]

As people who know me already know, I am thoroughly sickened by people claiming this monster is a hero. Part of me wonders whether these moronic chavscum know the full extent of this story, as from what I've seen, all the comments are along the lines of "MOATSYY U LEGUND THAT POLICEOFFICA SHUD HAVE DIED NOT U FUK THE POLICE INNITFAKKINMASSIIIIVE".

Moat was a murderer, who assaulted people and raped and beat his own wife. He was a complete lunatic before entering jail and came out still as a complete headcase. He was not a model citizen or a tragic figure. It was annoying me enough when watching Sky News (not my broadcaster of choice, my dad was watching it), where they called his suicide "tragic" and seemed to be sympathising with him over the police. I respect those police officers for putting their lives on the line for bringing justice to this disgusting excuse for a human. They are not the enemy. If the confrontation didn't happen sooner, how many other people could have been caught up in this?

I am repeating the same old as I have done numerous times, but this is something that has been angering me a lot recently. I really worry about the mentality of some of the arseholes in this country. Lets just hope these monster worshippers are all talk like they often seem, and that there won't be a backlash on the authoritive figures of this country.

[che]

Who said he was a hero? The pictures I saw said things like "totally understand your feelings". I can understand that guy's feeling of wanting to kill his ex for cheating on him. The difference, though, is I didn't kill my ex for cheating on me.

The only person here who said anything about hero was the media, who is blowing the fact that his friends are sad he's dead out of proportion. Friends will support friends close to them, just as friends will support the dead police officer, and the dead woman, and the dead new boyfriend.

That being said, the dude was a horrible person. The fact is, people who were friends of the guy are probably closely related to the man in morals, and feel they should support their friend no matter what he did.

Glad it's not just the U.S. for once where some dumb shit is happening. Not that I'm glad it happened at all, but I figured the U.S. would be the source of this from how silly it is.

[Xithor]

Who said he was a hero? The pictures I saw said things like "totally understand your feelings". I can understand that guy's feeling of wanting to kill his ex for cheating on him. The difference, though, is I didn't kill my ex for cheating on me.

The only person here who said anything about hero was the media, who is blowing the fact that his friends are sad he's dead out of proportion. Friends will support friends close to them, just as friends will support the dead police officer, and the dead woman, and the dead new boyfriend.

It's not the article or any of the pictures that are shown in that article that are calling him a hero, what I was referring to and I think everyone else was too was the facebook group. It's titled "R.I.P. RAOUL MOAT YOU LEGEND!". Sickening.

[Jin]

This guy isn't a hero.

In August 1990 an unemployed French nuclear physicist named André Gardes attempted a singlehanded invasion of Sark [a small British dependency in the English channel], armed with a semi-automatic weapon. The night Gardes arrived he put up signs declaring his intention to take over the island the following day at noon. He was arrested while sitting on a bench, changing the gun's magazine and waiting for noon to arrive, by the island's volunteer Constable.

THIS guy is a hero.

[che]

It's not the article or any of the pictures that are shown in that article that are calling him a hero, what I was referring to and I think everyone else was too was the facebook group. It's titled "R.I.P. RAOUL MOAT YOU LEGEND!". Sickening.

Ah, I had not looked at the facebook group.

[Dynamo]

aye, i think it is a little silly that people are branding him as a hero. He is meant to have some mental condition that shoulda been sorted out ages ago, but people didn't think that made him a hero until he killed people.

so do people really think your only a hero if;

you have a mental condition that should have been delt with ages ago and you have killed people ------ if yes, maybe you should go get yourself checked out..

I think people class him as a hero cause of something the police did to him moments before he killed himself (which i have to agree is taking the easy way out (in most cases)), however most of this hasn't been publicly anounce (atleast not what actually happened).. so.. yeah.

I understand there is more to this story then what has been posted and said on the news, but either way killing people over jelousy isn't being a hero reguardless of your state of mind.

now if the same guy killed people that were gonna do harm to millions, would be a different story, however if this was the case would people think he was a hero or would it be safer to place bets on him being classed as a murderer?

[Aerif]

Last night on BBC News 24 they mentioned that the Prime Minister had contacted Facebook about getting the page removed.

Facebook's response: "The page is not violating any of our rules."

I guess the staff at Facebook must be robots.

EDIT: Here it is.

EDIT2: Now it seems to have gone.

[Jin]

I guess the staff at Facebook must be robots.

Wait, you'd prefer that the Facebook staff play politics and remove groups accordingly? Really? I'll just assume I misinterpreted your post, because I can't imagine that that's what you're advocating.

Much as I hate Facebook, the spokeswoman in the article you linked said it well.

[...] But a spokeswoman for Facebook said the page would not be removed on the grounds the site encourages public debate about issues in the media.

She added: "Facebook is a place where people can express their views and discuss things in an open way as they can and do in many other places, and as such we sometimes find people discussing topics others may find distasteful, however that is not a reason in itself to stop a debate from happening.

[Aerif]

Wait, you'd prefer that the Facebook staff play politics and remove groups accordingly?

They already do Jin, search the groups for 'Nazi' or 'Ku Kux Klan'. Do you really think that nobody has tried creating them?

Most of the comments on that page implied is title of 'hero' came from shooting a police officer. It had essentially became a hate group against the police.

[che]

"Facebook is a place where people can express their views and discuss things in an open way as they can and do in many other places, and as such we sometimes find people discussing topics others may find distasteful, however that is not a reason in itself to stop a debate from happening.

Now only if Facebook had forums!

[Dynamo]

well lots more information has been released, not gonna go into full detail as most of it is on this site anyways. Plus FB has alot of it as well.

either way i still don't think what happened is heroic by any means

[Jin]

They already do Jin, search the groups for 'Nazi' or 'Ku Kux Klan'. Do you really think that nobody has tried creating them?

Most of the comments on that page implied is title of 'hero' came from shooting a police officer. It had essentially became a hate group against the police.

You're comparing these people to Nazis and the Klan? Come on. That's a bit much. Regardless, it's Facebook's prerogative whether or not to terminate the group and they should do so only when they believe said group breaks their rules, not when politicians pressure them to. As the spokeswoman said, this group did not break their rules. That doesn't make them "robots". Quite the opposite.

Edit: Also, on the point of semantics, banning Nazi and Klan groups is not playing politics in the sense that I'm using the phrase. I'm certain that Nazi and Klan groups were banned from the get go because Facebook wanted it that way, not because Facebook bowed to government pressure. If that isn't the case, then it still stands that continuing to play politics is not a good thing.

[xXx Rikku xXx]

Nobody will care but i just want to say he was from around birtley area and that where i go to school xD