Happy Jesus' birthday!?

[Hyzenthlay]

Right, this is a relatively simple question...

Who thinks of christmas as a religeous celebration of the birth of Jesus?
On the same note; who sees it as simply a time for family and happiness?

Personally, it's a family time for me. Dispite my family having a highly religeous past and present. I don't celebrate it as the birth of christ.

I'll discuss more after people tell me their views.

So

Do you think of christmas as a religeous celebration of the birth of Jesus?
OR
Do you see it as simply a time for family and happiness?
OR
Maybe a different view altogether.?

Also,

Reasons for your answer.

[Halie]

It's a famblie time for me. None of my family are religious, so ya know. It's more about Santa and cheese, all that stuff. Lots of presents, tea, junk food, and awesome Christmas dinners.

It's pretty stupid, though. Jesus was born in October. Well, if he ever existed, that is. Those silly sausages.

[Sean]

Christmas is that special time of year, when restaurants are insanely busy, I'm stressed to hell from finals/increased work load at work, it's cold as piss outside, snow makes it a pain in the **** to drive, and my toes could run away and I wouldn't even notice.

New Year, on the other hand, is a special time of year where lots of restaurants either close for a week or are just insanely slow, making work non-existent or insanely easy after that holiday rush.

[Storm]

I'm agnostic so I see it as family time. Although the past few years i've been ill and a little solitary. Having a small house being crammed with family (including two crazy twin cousins) isn't that good when one gets as claustrophobic as I do! I still make an effort to see them though. I personally see it as more of a kids holiday too, as I've found as i've been growing older the less I really seem to bother.

Also being the stubborn Brit I am, I find it disgusting how the Romans slaughtered the Pagan and Druid natives of Great Britain to spread Christianity- then took the date of the pagan holiday Yule and said it was Jesus's birthday when it was supposedly in April or October (i've heard various different variations- one was even July). I have nothing against Christians though, so nobody take my view in an offensive manner.

[Hyzenthlay]

LOL, Halie. I read Famblie about 30 times like o.O. Then I thought "OHHHHHH, FAMILY!". ~points at hair~ It isnt all jokes and lies about this type of hair!

Yeah, my parents celebrate it as a religeous time. I see it as entirely family orientated. I dont care much for religeon. It causes rifts and squabbles in my house, I dont even want to go into what it caused in history or at present. So, in short, i'm not as insanely religeous as my family. Therefor I celebrate my family being together and getting on for a day or two. =D

Sean, possibly the most random answer to my question... Ever? From what I gathered, you celebrate things about restaurants . Do you have a love of both busy and slow restaurants? I'm kidding.

EDIT: Storm, I agree with you on the children part. Even though i'm 18 and still feel ripples of excitement and unrest on christmas eve, my brothers dont really care as much. Neither does my elder sister. I guess it all comes down to personality as well as age. All you have to do is think how many adverts for toys there are, though, to realise this is primarily a childs holiday. In the eyes of major corporations, at very least.

I said I wasnt getting into teh history of religeon. So I wont answer what you said. I'll only get mad (not at you, at the history).

[Sean]

Sean, possibly the most random answer to my question... Ever? From what I gathered, you celebrate things about restaurants . Do you have a love of both busy and slow restaurants? I'm kidding.

lol I'm a sous-chef of a restaurant, and I've been working in restaurants for the past 4 years. The Christmas season is always a nightmare because of all the people who book holiday parties, order catering events for their companies, ect ect, coupled with the fact that finals are always right in the middle of the holiday rush... yeah.

New Years Eve is always a jampacked amateur night, and the week following New Year's various restaurants I've been in are either closed or just insanely dead, making that week nice and relaxing compared to how hectic December was.

That, literally, is all Christmas has meant to me for the past 4 years.

[Chez Daja]

Christmas? Oh! You mean that day where I give stuff to people and they give stuff to me.
That in itself should explain how I feel about Christmas.

I'm Agnostic, and whilst it'd be nice to think it was for the birth of Christ, it's not really like I think about that on the day. It's the time that we all eat and give each other stuff. And nobody argues. And somebody else takes care for all the food for once!

[Walter Sobchak]

I'm Agnostic

I'm agnostic

What does the term agnostic even mean? That you don't know if a God exists? If that is the case, then we are all agnostic.

You didnt answer the question, either. So your post is technically spam. You also posted in a provocative tone which, owing to the fact that it's kinda ticked me off, could be construed as flamebaiting. So you have actually broken two forum rules in one post, or thats how I read it.

Sigh. You shouldn't let other people get their kicks for you.

My Christmas celebrations tend to be low key as my family is not particularly religious. We will have a big dinner and then I will go to the movies with people like I do every Christmas. No big deal for me. Festivus is a bigger day for my family, actually.

[Jin]

Why exactly does December 25 have to be the date of Jesus' birth to celebrate it? I've celebrated my own birthday a week before or after the actual date, depending on the circumstances. The expropriation of the date by the Church is irrelevant.

That being said, Christmas is a secular holiday to me and more and more often for the world in general. Family and commercialism come together to make the poor and lonely more miserable than they already are. And that is the spirit of Christmas.

[Zardoch]

Who thinks of christmas as a religeous celebration of the birth of Jesus?
On the same note; who sees it as simply a time for family and happiness?

Why not both? Given that I've only recently became a born-again Christian, I do feel that there is a point where we need to realize that if Christmas becomes a holiday for materialism, people will further stop giving a shit about anyone other than their friends and family. The rampaging crowds of people beating people down to buy things, the selfishness in itself. If we believe Christmas is 'just another holiday', it loses all traditional meaning in it. It would become just another formality.

Now, the only problem I have with Christmas eve and X-Mas day is the 24 hour playing of movies that suck. A Christmas Story? Sucks. The Peanuts movie? Sucks. A Wonderful Life? Great message, acting, etc etc, but still sucks. Same thing for The Wizard of Oz. There's a point where the repetition of such things NEEDS to stop. There are just some traditions I just feel they're forcing out there because people like my parents and around their age orgasmed over such things.

Overall, whatever your religion and what not, people should be reminded to be civilly caring, not worrying about getting the gifts that might be sold out in the next week. Which is why such things like an atheistic sign being placed next to the manger scene is childish, tasteless, and a double standard that honestly has nothing to do with Christmas at all. Next they'll be screaming for a non-religious holiday where they can attack religion and no one will care.

[Govinda]

Next they'll be screaming for a non-religious holiday where they can attack religion and no one will care.

Absolutely. The 16th of June is that day in my house, as it's my birthday. I feel the day of my birth should be marked as a holiday where my household attacks religion.

For me, Christmas is something to do in winter. I love to see everyone who comes home at the same time, like breeding salmon, and with about as much purpose.

In some ways, it makes me feel bad. Merry ****ing Christmas, people of Pyongyang! It's like we're showing off somehow. But the houses are so warm and the foods so filling that we don't care. Maybe the forgetting provides the comfort.

[Hyzenthlay]

Strong, STRONG views there Valkyarc.

I agree with you, to a certain extent. However, I dont believe that it is as selfish as some of your sentences suggest. Maybe I missread what you said, though.
I, for one, hate the notion of recieving presents. It makes me feel unconfortable. I much prefer the feeling of giving one, to make a person happy. I was also discussing this with a number of people in this forum that are, like me, not as religeous as some. Some of them wernt religeous at all. Now I havnt forgotten the religeous background and spirit of christmas. I just dont believe in it myself, this doesnt mean it is just another holiday to me, either. It is the ONLY holiday in which I see my family. I have German and Norwegian (Nordic, if you wanna call it that) blood in me, therefor I never see half of my family. They live far away in distant lands .
My christmas is based around that and not religeon.

I do, however, fully agree with your first statement. People COULD represtent it as both or follow both my options equally. To a certain extent they tie in. The fact that people have talked about it in here, however, validates my question and so vindicates me. =]
I'm not knocking religeon, I cant. My family are HEAVILY religeous... All I'm saying and some of the other are is, it is not for me/us.

I really do admire your strong feelings towards it. I only wish I had the passion to say such things.

[DARKSLAYN]

for 1 thing x mas isnt even the birth of christ......xmas originated from the pagan roman holiday saturnalia infact the original christian records NEVER tell u wen this supposed son of God's b day ........saturnalia was the day wen roman men exchanged gifts got drunk beat their wives and had sex with each other due to intoxcication plus the church banned that holiday and made it religious in the 1800's then called it christmas due to the word christ.

[Hyzenthlay]

for 1 thing x mas isnt even the birth of christ......xmas originated from the pagan roman holiday saturnalia infact the original christian records NEVER tell u wen this supposed son of God's b day ........saturnalia was the day wen roman men exchanged gifts got drunk beat their wives and had sex with each other due to intoxcication plus the church banned that holiday and made it religious in the 1800's then called it christmas due to the word christ.

~Cough~ If you are trying to prove a point then you'll have to try harder.

I never said anything about the bible saying it was Jesus' birthday. I never said that the Pagan Romans didnt invent the holiday.

You didnt answer the question, either. So your post is technically spam. You also posted in a provocative tone which, owing to the fact that it's kinda ticked me off, could be construed as flamebaiting. So you have actually broken two forum rules in one post, or thats how I read it.

Also, the common knowledge of christmas is that it is celebrating Jesus' birthday. The actual date of it, as Jin said, is irrelivant. If the whole world decided that red was blue then it would be blue... End of.

If you reply to this, please, answer the question. Or I'll report the message.

But the houses are so warm and the foods so filling that we don't care. Maybe the forgetting provides the comfort.

I can certainly sympathise with this. I feel the warmth and food very comforting. I wouldnt say I felt guilt or anything, but sometimes I feel people are trying to impress people with what gifts they get or... Whatever.

I just use mine. I generalise... Clothes, games... Shoes. If people ask what I got I never specify. I dont feel the need to, really. Unless they ask me.

[DARKSLAYN]

well srry thats truth but to answer the question family

[Hyzenthlay]

What does the term agnostic even mean? That you don't know if a God exists? If that is the case, then we are all agnostic.

Agnostic is the term used to say that you do not believe in god. However, if evidence were brought your way, you could be swayed by the argument. I suppose it could be said to be a state of having an indifference to religeon. It is often mixed up with Atheism, or being Atheist. This states that you do not believe in god. And you dont believe evidence could ever arrise, therefor saying that god does not and cannot possibly exist.

Sigh. You shouldn't let other people get their kicks for you.

I know, I just get riled up... Sometimes. It isnt often, either.

My Christmas celebrations tend to be low key as my family is not particularly religious. We will have a big dinner and then I will go to the movies with people like I do every Christmas. No big deal for me. Festivus is a bigger day for my family, actually.

Yeah. Big dinners is kinda a big thing, religeous or not. I suppose this is the sort of infomation I want, to find similarities between the two. Dispite, in some cases, the views clashing.
Festivus? Could you explain this to me via a PM or profile message? I'm not familier with it.

EDIT: I actually reversed Atheism and Agosticism... Sorry, I'll correct that... DONE

[Walter Sobchak]

Agnostic is the term used to say that you do not believe in god. However, if evidence were brought your way, you could be swayed by the argument. I suppose it could be said to be a state of having an indifference to religeon. It is often mixed up with Atheism, or being Atheist. This states that you do not believe in god. And you dont believe evidence could ever arrise, therefor saying that god does not and cannot possibly exist.

That simply isn't true. I am an atheist, and I do not believe in a God, but if frogs started to rain from the sky and the Apocalypse was imminent, I would have to be thick headed to deny its transgression. But getting into hypotheticals about the ability to prove the existence or non-existence of a deity is irrelevant, since that isn't a likely scenario.

Jin answered most what I was getting at (there was a time when Jin and I ruled ID, and I miss that), but my point is somewhat different. Admitting you cannot possibly understand the existence or shape a deity would take is one thing, but all of us have our perceptions. Have you ever watched a football game with someone who said they didn't know who would win or by how much? Well, none of us know who will win or by how much. But we have our belief as to who will win and by how much, and that is what really atheism versus theism comes down to.

I am basically stealing all of this from Dawkins, but it makes sense if you really think about it.

[V_Translanka]

I would have to go with Storm on this one. It's the celebration of a stolen pagan holiday. I think the July or June birthday of Jesus is supposedly based on the star that was seen at that time or something...That's what I heard, anyways...

[DARKSLAYN]

true true but then again ur getting off topic

[Hyzenthlay]

I would have to go with Storm on this one. It's the celebration of a stolen pagan holiday. I think the July or June birthday of Jesus is supposedly based on the star that was seen at that time or something...That's what I heard, anyways...

true true but then again ur getting off topic

This is true. Try to stay on topic and answer the question when you post, please. Any other view can be given, I'll read and comment, but I'd appreciate it if you'd stay on topic... Even if only for a paragraph. Try not to get too much into its history either, please. Thats nothing to do with the question.

[darkViVi]

I shit on Jesus

[DARKSLAYN]

dude stay on subject or i WILL report u

[Hyzenthlay]

LMAO

I cant even be angry with that... You cant be funny and annoying at the same time .


Seriously, I'm speachless. Really dunno what to say.

He's right, though. Stay on subject! I'll growl at you and report if need be...

[DARKSLAYN]

i agree that was ver funny and how can u say something if ur speachless but seriously STAY on topic ppl

[V_Translanka]

Wait, what's not on topic about that post of mine...?

So

Do you think of christmas as a religeous celebration of the birth of Jesus?
OR
Do you see it as simply a time for family and happiness?
OR
Maybe a different view altogether.?

I'm fairly sure it would fall under OR #2...>_>

But any reason to celebrate (i.e. get drunk?), especially in the chilly Winters (er...I guess it'd be warm for you freaks in the Southern Hemisphere, huh...>_>), is good enough for me I guess. We always create these things for ourselves, I think. As much as we fight against it, we're a race that belongs together & strives upon our differences...I think...>_>

[loaf]

Christmas is another day to me. Nothing special, to me. Never celebrated it for someones birthday ever. I got presents and then I treat the rest of the day like normal.

[OceanEyes28]

Darkslayn, I do appreciate your enthusiasm, but in the future, report posts and let the staff take care of it. That way, we can avoid tension between members and more off topic posting (and more warnings). Hyzenthlay, I suppose the same message applies to you too. Staff are here for a reason. Take advantage of us (in a good way ).

Darkvivi, you'll be getting a little something for your post, but you saw that coming, I'm sure.

Okidoki. Christmas! I do have an opinion, but I also have a bedtime. So I'll have to come back to this.

[Furore]

To be perfectly honest I never could truly give a damn about Birthdays. And while I believe in God and feel I should respect Him, I somehow doubt he'll give a damn about such earthly customs. If you really want to make the big man happy, do what you think he'd want you to do, be cool to others.

Christmas to me is a time when I can get an awesome buffet cheap. It's a time when I get a ton of presents that are often innapropriate for one such as I (in terms of my character). It's a time when I value a good extended family party and a few friends parties and drink a bit more than I normally would. It's a time I see things I didn't know when I was younger and feel a bit depressed about, before realising that if I had things that way I would have turned out differently and that may be an inferior me. I ****ing *LOVE* the buffets...

[Jin]

Agnostic is the term used to say that you do not believe in god. However, if evidence were brought your way, you could be swayed by the argument.

Uhhh, no. The term "agnostic" is the new way to rebel, now that atheism has become so mainstream and has made a fool of itself on equal grounds with theism. It involves teenagers doing zero research into religious (and often philosophical) thought, deciding they'd prefer to ignore the hassle of meaningful spiritual thought and commandeering a word that they bastardize to mean "indifference", which is a apt way to describe the majority of this generation.

(Before the angry replies start, I would just like to make it clear that this is not directed at anyone specifically. I have no idea your personal reasons for calling yourself agnostic. Just beware that a large percentage of teenagers that use the words to describe themselves are just lazy.)

Agnosticism does not simply involve being indifferent. It involves reaching a point, preferably through philosophical evolution, at which you realize that no one has the answers and that it is impossible for anyone, yourself included to know whether God exists or not (not to mention its nature, should it exist).

Just because some rube says, "duhhh, I don't know," when asked if he believes in God does not make him agnostic.

Boom, thread ruined. Merry Christmas.

[DARKSLAYN]

ya jin u havent read the previous posts STAY ON TOPIC

BUT U DO HAVE A POINT BUT PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC AND ANSWER THE QUESTION