Sobriety (substance or otherwise)

[ultima_trev]

I know this might sound Cliche or even totally uncool/nerdy, but I fail to see society's obsession with intoxication and/or debauchery, and am quite irked that anyone who doesn't partake in such is seen as a low class loser.

Now, I'm not going to preach, "LOLZORZ, NUBODY SHOULD DO DRUGS OR HAVE SEX CUZ IT'S SOOOOOOOOOOO WRONGZZZZZZZZZZ," especially since I've (albeit regretfully) experimented with such things in the past (and thus would make me a hypocrite... And I especially don't like hypocrites.)

Anyhoo... I like to keep my senses and mind sharp (sharp as possible that is, considering I am a clinical nutcase), I like to be aware of EVERYTHING that's going on around me... and intoxication tends to hinder that ability.

I've had friends and family die from intoxication-related circumstances, some from carelessness (drunk driving, etc.), some from a genuine desire to die for the pain of living was too great and thus they ODed. In the later case, I definitely believe one should cease with self-medication and allow themselves to feel the pain. Pain is really the only assurance we have that we're alive, it strengthens us and as I've lived a life filled with far more pain than happy, fluffy times, I'd say it has helped transform me in to the (in my opinion) ubermench that I am today.

So, in my opinion, sobriety (and pain) FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Selcopa]

Sounds kind of emo.

You don't have to get hammered, there's a time and place for that(21st birthday, ect), but you can drink without really impairing your senses, its called not being a bad drinker.

Pain is the only way we know we are alive? lol, sounds like you need a life or something, or a shrink

[Imposter]

Selcopa you sure that you can drink at all without impairing you senses? I'm sure that the change in your blood alcohol level will have an effect somehow, whether it is minimal or not but the change is there.

I'm not sure that pain is the be all and end all of living but I think sobriety is great. I've never been fond of the idea of clouding my judgment or impairing my senses. I think that people can regulate many things with moderation but society as a whole sucks at it. (Case in point all the substance abusers in North America)...So despite there being a 'proper' time and place it clearly hasn't worked.

Anyways I think it is a pretty normal occurrence to have some type of substance abuse involved in the average American family now. I've seen the more negative effects of misuse of substances and it has proved to be a better deterrent than anything else. I don't really go around preaching at people that they shouldn't drink or do drugs because of conviction's sake but I'll never dabble in that stuff myself.

[Selcopa]

I can drink a few beers or a small amount of liquor and have no impairments to my cognitive abilities, judgment, coordination, and motor skills. I have a liver for a reason. Just because you have some alcohol in your system does not mean it is impairing you.

I do agree that society as a whole sucks, especially when it come substance control.

And I want to try a psychedelic at some point, probably shrooms, we'll see if i ever come up with the balls to do it

[OceanEyes28]

Ehh..... while I can have a beer or two and not turn into a complete ****ing idiot, I'm not gonna act like I'm at the pinnacle of my coordination or reasoning - that I haven't been impaired in any way. I'm ingesting a neurotoxin.

Everything in moderation, imo.

I don't like to get wasted because I don't like when I have to rely on other people to do shit like walk. But a couple of beers can be nice.

[ultima_trev]

OceanEyes: If people wanna drink a little or even take a hit or two of the gaunja in their own home, then at that point I got no problem with it... but when they go out into the world and put others (or themselves) at risk, then it becomes a problem (in my opinion).

Selcopa: Straight edge (anti-intoxication/anti-promiscuity) doesn't stem from Emo, rather old school Hardcore Punk (although emo itself is subgenre of Punk). As for me not having a life... working 60 hours per week in IT kinda prohibits me from having one. As for me needed to see a shrink... you're probably right.

[Lily]

why would you want a life of pain to prove you're alive? **** that, I can have great times or just regular chilled out times and know Im alive.

Just because some folk turn into idiots when they drink, doesnt mean that everyone does. We don't all mass brawl in the streets, vomit everywhere etc. Though admittedly I do like a jolly good drink, and I like to get absolutely shit faced. And I feel very much alive the next morning when I have the hangover of doom. Because thats about the only time I want to curl up in a ball and die hahaha. Im not really a social drinker, i wont go out andf just have one or 2, i wont bother drinking at all, but usually about once a fortnight i will get plastered, but I enjoy it. You might not be able to fathom that, but likewise, I cant fathom why someone would embrace having a life of pain. Sod that for a game of soldiers

Nowt wrong with having a drink, if you want to do - but like everything it should be done in moderation

[Unknown Entity]

I don't like being drunk. If it's the right circumstances, being tipsy is as "fun" as it gets for me, but even then I have a deep, nagging worry about pretty much everything. I'm also really frightened of vomit and vomiting, so that's more reason to not get drunk or drink too much. But otherwise, I do enjoy alcohol maybe once or twice a week at a maximum, and is always a really low unit of alcohol.

It's usually always in the form of a Bud, and I've recently got down to my Irish routes and enjoyed a pint of Guinness. I don't touch the harder stuff, but maybe once a month I'll have a single shot Courvoisier or Jack Daniels with Coke.

On that note, at the end of the month, my friends want to drag me out to a few clubs for a drink up... I've already said no because I won't enjoy it, but they keep nagging. >< I hate that.

As for drugs... I've seen what it's done to my friends, and I'll never touch the stuff. About four years ago, I was hanging out with some really cool kids. Then they started doing weed, which I was okay with as long as I didn't get the smell on my clothes for when I went home. Then they got onto more harder things, and even got me to try something (which scared me to death), so just stopped hanging out with them.

At the moment, only one of my friends enjoys weed, and experimenting, and she doesn't always look too well. Sometimes more or less calm and/but confused, but she's not always taking it. Either way, the looking high and ill look doesn't really kick it for me.

[Dan558]

I do think people have an over-fascination in regards to substance abuse. It bothers me too that people will drink or smoke constantly just because they can or even "need" to.

I'm not perfect and I definitely drank and done drugs before and even still do to a limited extent. When I DO drink I only do it to get wasted, otherwise theres no real point. and that only happens like once a month. I don't see the reason to have a beer with dinner every time I can or to sit alone and drink, there are infinitely better tasting drinks out there then anything alcoholic. People who sit alone and drink or have one or two alcoholic drinks at dinner without the intent of going out are alcoholics in my mind.

Like here's a scenario, I'll be talking on msn to a friend and at some point he'll casually mention he's drinking a beer. So i'll ask, "you partying tonight?" he'll say no, so i'll ask "meeting friends tonight?" he'll say no. I'll ask why and hes says something like "why not?". So then he's an alcoholic to me because drinking like that is just stupid and useless. He's not even close to the worst cases I know.

[Selcopa]

I wasn't suggesting that being sober is emo, however this is a very emo statement

"Pain is really the only assurance we have that we're alive, it strengthens us and as I've lived a life filled with far more pain than happy, fluffy times, I'd say it has helped transform me in to the (in my opinion) ubermench that I am today."
It does strengthen us, but the only assurance? I must whole heartily disagree, and call it emo.
Also Gorath, we all need to see a shrink

Ocean you are girl correct? I believe alcohol affects men and women to different degrees? But you could conceivably consume a quantity of alcohol that would not affect your coordination. The concept is the same

[Lily]

Like here's a scenario, I'll be talking on msn to a friend and at some point he'll casually mention he's drinking a beer. So i'll ask, "you partying tonight?" he'll say no, so i'll ask "meeting friends tonight?" he'll say no. I'll ask why and hes says something like "why not?". So then he's an alcoholic to me because drinking like that is just stupid and useless. He's not even close to the worst cases I know.

I dont see the point in that, though i have drank on my own before now - having a really bad day followed by a glass of wine just feels so good hah. I got out of the habit though. My most recent ex was someone who liked to have a couple of beers every so often in the week. And id just be like, why bother?

Its not alcoholism though - it could certainly lead to it, but unless hes waking up thinking I need a drink, or drinking himself pissed every day then its not alcoholism. isnt the limit for men summat like 2 units a day...? cant remember

My dad was/is an alcoholic, dont really talk to him that much and thats definately not something I will ever become myself, it tears families apart. I look at him now and just think gee you look twice your age

Im abit of a hypocrite on drinking I think. Drunk people annoy me unless Im drunk with them hahaha and Il always frown upon someone like my dad having a sniff of alcohol, Id rather just leave the room than have to deal with him or anyone else thats drinking when Im not.

[Selcopa]

Its not alcoholism though - it could certainly lead to it, but unless hes waking up thinking I need a drink, or drinking himself pissed every day then its not alcoholism. isnt the limit for men summat like 2 units a day...? cant remember

1 per hour

For a Carry Concealed Weapon permit you cannot have a trace of alcohol in your system, it generally takes 1 hour to clear a 16 oz beer from your system, but its smarter to wait closer to 2 hours to pick up your gun again, just to be safe.

[Angel of Iniquity]

It irritates me when people need to get drunk or High because their life at the current isn't great, and feel the need to take a substance to feel better. That is weak minded and I can't possibly how people actually like it.

I don't drink cause it tastes gross. I associate it with vomiting and I'm emitophobic sooooo.
And smoking, I practice martial arts and need to keep my air in take as pure as possible.

[Sinister]

I remember in earlier days I was a philosophical Empiricist. I felt that the only way to grow as a human being was to experience one of everything. Well, it sounded like a good idea at the time. And true to, my then, philosophy, after experience came wisdom. I learned that there are somethings in life worth shying away from even if you haven't experienced them.

I used to also have poor regard for my self safety. Throwing myself into danger just to experience different things. Not as a thrill-seeking behavior, mind. It was more in the spirit of a scientific venture.

I remember trying for the first time Nutmeg as a hallucinogen. I measured my doses incorrectly and ended up with a Herculean dose and ODed. You see Nutmeg has an alkaline poison in it known as Myristicin. The OD symptoms of which are generalized pain, fear(adrenal activity, too), tachycardia, muscle spasms and more. I don't have to tell you that back then it was certainly informative and fascinating. But lately I'm not much on such gritty pleasures or experiments.

-Sin

[midgetbob]

It irritates me when people need to get drunk or High because their life at the current isn't great, and feel the need to take a substance to feel better. That is weak minded and I can't possibly how people actually like it.

How is it irritating to you that someone else decides their life dictates that they want a beer or whatnot to make themselves feel better?

With your logic, you'd be irritated that people are taking medication. Their life isn't going so well, so them taking their medication to feel better is irritating.

You could also say that (using your logic) that you'd be irritated that people laugh. Something isn't going so well, so somebody makes them laugh. Whoops... just released some endorphins in the brain and altered their mood.

[Angel of Iniquity]

How is it irritating to you that someone else decides their life dictates that they want a beer or whatnot to make themselves feel better?

With your logic, you'd be irritated that people are taking medication. Their life isn't going so well, so them taking their medication to feel better is irritating.

You could also say that (using your logic) that you'd be irritated that people laugh. Something isn't going so well, so somebody makes them laugh. Whoops... just released some endorphins in the brain and altered their mood.

Listen here KIDDO!

The mentioned people you have posted have mental disorders obviously. Depression is a mental disorder and you DON'T feel as good AS YOU SHOULD BE! Now, the ones I am talking about usually have depression, but they aren't the brightest ingots and find pleasure from Drinking or smoking. Don't reply to me unless you knew what you were talking about...

Oh I'm so sad, I'm going to get drunk as shit. ****ing really? Weakness. We deserve without their pathetic lives, let them fester in their own despair.

I love looking at the serdirances of others.

[midgetbob]

Listen here KIDDO!

The mentioned people you have posted have mental disorders obviously. Depression is a mental disorder and you DON'T feel as good AS YOU SHOULD BE! Now, the ones I am talking about usually have depression, but they aren't the brightest ingots and find pleasure from Drinking or smoking. Don't reply to me unless you knew what you were talking about...

Oh I'm so sad, I'm going to get drunk as shit. ****ing really? Weakness. We deserve without their pathetic lives, let them fester in their own despair.

I love looking at the serdirances of others.

One: you're personal attempts of insulting me by trying to attack my age and maturity level is in vain. I'm far from a 'kiddo' and my reply was merely trying to show you how you're blind accusation that it's irritating that someone wants a drink / smoke / what-have-you shouldn't be any concern of yours. It's not weak willed, it's a choice that they're allowed to make. Especially since half of the statement is legal, and the other half is in a very grey area in many states.

Two: It's NOT obvious that the people I mentioned have mental disorders. As for depression, I've fought that demon and won. I've both been hospitalized and had to see therapists for it; along with a small slew of medications to 'stabilize' myself. Therefor, if I WERE talking about what you ASSUMED I was talking about, I think I have a fairly solid platform to voice my opinion.

Instead, I was showing how your argument could be applied to everyday medication uses. Have a headache? Don't take that Tylenol, or you'd be irritated at them. Stomachache? Better not take that Pepto. Just got a tooth pooled? No codeine for you!

You were stating you didn't understand how someone who had a bad day would want to do something to alter their mood. Everything I just mentioned, including laughing, sex, running and exercise, dancing... the list goes on and on for things that can give you an "endorphin rush" and, thus, alter your mood. So I posed that thinking it's weak willed to try altering your mood to make yourself feel better is in error.

Three: If someone decides to get drunk because they had a bad day, you just said it's better off without them. Let them die then? They're in a bad mood and try making themselves feel better and you think the Vox populi is that the world is better off without them? I can't even begin to describe how much of a grievous error this line of thought is.

Four: If you're going to try insulting someone, at least get the word right.

Five: Don't reply unless you know what you're talking about.



(but not too much... as that'd be altering your mood... and we don't want people irritated with us... let alone believing the world is better off without us!)

[Angel of Iniquity]

One: you're personal attempts of insulting me by trying to attack my age and maturity level is in vain. I'm far from a 'kiddo' and my reply was merely trying to show you how you're blind accusation that it's irritating that someone wants a drink / smoke / what-have-you shouldn't be any concern of yours. It's not weak willed, it's a choice that they're allowed to make. Especially since half of the statement is legal, and the other half is in a very grey area in many states.

Two: It's NOT obvious that the people I mentioned have mental disorders. As for depression, I've fought that demon and won. I've both been hospitalized and had to see therapists for it; along with a small slew of medications to 'stabilize' myself. Therefor, if I WERE talking about what you ASSUMED I was talking about, I think I have a fairly solid platform to voice my opinion.

Instead, I was showing how your argument could be applied to everyday medication uses. Have a headache? Don't take that Tylenol, or you'd be irritated at them. Stomachache? Better not take that Pepto. Just got a tooth pooled? No codeine for you!

You were stating you didn't understand how someone who had a bad day would want to do something to alter their mood. Everything I just mentioned, including laughing, sex, running and exercise, dancing... the list goes on and on for things that can give you an "endorphin rush" and, thus, alter your mood. So I posed that thinking it's weak willed to try altering your mood to make yourself feel better is in error.

Three: If someone decides to get drunk because they had a bad day, you just said it's better off without them. Let them die then? They're in a bad mood and try making themselves feel better and you think the Vox populi is that the world is better off without them? I can't even begin to describe how much of a grievous error this line of thought is.

Four: If you're going to try insulting someone, at least get the word right.

Five: Don't reply unless you know what you're talking about.



(but not too much... as that'd be altering your mood... and we don't want people irritated with us... let alone believing the world is better off without us!)

It seems i may have been beaten and I may have to accept defeat.
But I can only go by what I see.

So instead of dealing wwith the problems, I should just drink? Hide my problems?
If I have a toothache, I will use medication, but not MIND altering medication which is what I was getting at. And it is only to hold me off until I can get it checked. Yes, we can do without them. To bad this isn't like pulse. The weak get eaten...>.>

[che]

It seems i may have been beaten and I may have to accept defeat.

To[sic] bad this isn't like pulse. The weak get eaten...>.>

I think I'll grab a beer.

[midgetbob]

It seems i may have been beaten and I may have to accept defeat.

To bad this isn't like pulse. The weak get eaten...>.>

I think I'll grab a beer.

Beer time.

[Rocky]

I'm really loving the ignore user feature on this forum, I don't ever have to look at messages from that genius 11 year old again.

I think people should live their lives how they want to. It's not good to do illegal stuff because it puts society in danger (drunk driving for instance), but if people wanna drink a few or smoke a blunt, if it's not bothering you then what should it matter? I think people are far too nosy for their own good these days.

EDIT: PS beer me in Che and bob?

[midgetbob]

Consider yourself beer'd my good sir, consider yourself beer'd (beered just looked silly).

[Unknown Entity]

Oh I'm so sad, I'm going to get drunk as shit. ****ing really? Weakness. We deserve without their pathetic lives, let them fester in their own despair.

Actually having a small amount of alcohol can improve someone's mood. If you're in a terrible mood, and then drink, it's not a good idea. But with the right company or entertainment and a mild drink, it can lighten your mood.

Also, earlier this year, my step dad took a huge overdose of pills with some JD, and ended up in a critical, but stable condition in hospital. Was he pathetic? No. He was suffering from depression and had hit a real low patch. And he'd had some alcohol, harder stuff, and it gave him the stupid idea that everyone would be better off without him.

I was, and I'm sure he'd be a little insulted by those comments.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Actually having a small amount of alcohol can improve someone's mood. If you're in a terrible mood, and then drink, it's not a good idea. But with the right company or entertainment and a mild drink, it can lighten your mood.

Also, earlier this year, my step dad took a huge overdose of pills with some JD, and ended up in a critical, but stable condition in hospital. Was he pathetic? No. He was suffering from depression and had hit a real low patch. And he'd had some alcohol, harder stuff, and it gave him the stupid idea that everyone would be better off without him.

I was, and I'm sure he'd be a little insulted by those comments.

Nobody should have to rely on other substances for situations either brought on by themselves or can be changed quickly.
I didn't think people would take the last comments seriously. WHile I really wouldn't care if they did die, I didn't mean it as put, which is why I brought up Pulse, to soften it up.

[Clint]

It irritates me when people need to get drunk or High because their life at the current isn't great, and feel the need to take a substance to feel better. That is weak minded and I can't possibly how people actually like it.

I'd like to quote outspoken drug free WWE wrestler CM Punk, who said:

"I’m Straight Edge for me, so what everyone else is doing, it doesn’t matter. I’ve never been pressured to drink or smoke or anything by any of the boys, and if anything, a lot of them like me because I’m always the designated driver. I’m the one who makes sure everyone gets home alright and I’m happy doing that."

Your choice is your choice, just as anybody's choice to get high or drunk is their choice. You have no say in the matter, and I find it disrespectful that you find it appropriate to patronize anybody who doesn't live their life to your exact standard.

You mentioned mental illness and weak-mindedness as reasons why people take drugs. In my opinion, you're stuck on stereotyping. You have absolutely no idea why people choose to do the things they do.

You also mentioned that their lives are pathetic. That comment is brutally mean, and if you actually believe that, then you're the one with the pathetic life.

As for my stance on sobriety, I don't do any drugs, but I know many people who smoke cigarettes, drink, and smoke pot (and some who grow pot,) but I don't care, and they don't care that I don't partake. I don't stay sober due to some moral code or to place myself on some higher moral standing; it just isn't for me.

[Dan558]

How is it irritating to you that someone else decides their life dictates that they want a beer or whatnot to make themselves feel better?

Probably because beer and many drugs the initial question was about are actually harmful and in a way less natural then the crappy comparisons you listed after (laughter really???). Some people will defend their alcoholism any way they can just because they can, jeez. More along the lines I'm sure he was thinking when Angel initially posted this was something like smoking. Here's the scenario as to why its dumb. "Jeez I'm feeling bad today, better suck on a poison stick (cigarette), that most definitely ends up hurting me wayyyy more then the initial stress relief I have convinced myself It gives because of the nicotine". I know the go to argument for idiots is that Indians and stuff used tobacco but that stuff was way different (and still stupid). Beer and many other drugs are basically the same thing. Denial seems to be the way that addicts and simpletons (rather then a more flame-inviting accurate word) deal with substance abuse.

The OP question asked opinions so when you saw a differing one you had to blow it way out of proportion just because you handle things differently (and arguably the wrong way given your abrasive stance)

[Angel of Iniquity]

Your choice is your choice, just as anybody's choice to get high or drunk is their choice. You have no say in the matter, and I find it disrespectful that you find it appropriate to patronize anybody who doesn't live their life to your exact standard.

I don't care if everybody suffers an unimaginable death. I don't, that's me. I can drown a newborn in acid, again, that's me.

My opinion is my opinion, just as it is others opinions to agree against mine. You have no say in that matter and ultimately no reason to quote me correct?

Big deal, everybody should die. You wouldn't say anything towards it unless I point out a group ehy? Americans should die. Now, are you angry?

Think about it, if I say something, it is probably not in sync with your view, or may it be serious in which I am usually not*point to my american post*

Those who drink because they have a bad life aren't thinking how to help their lives, they are hurting themselves and others.

Instead of moping in their despair, they should find a way to fix it.

[Dan558]

I don't care if everybody suffers an unimaginable death. I don't, that's me. I can drown a newborn in acid, again, that's me.

My opinion is my opinion, just as it is others opinions to agree against mine. You have no say in that matter and ultimately no reason to quote me correct?

Big deal, everybody should die. You wouldn't say anything towards it unless I point out a group ehy? Americans should die. Now, are you angry?

Think about it, if I say something, it is probably not in sync with your view, or may it be serious in which I am usually not*point to my american post*

Those who drink because they have a bad life aren't thinking how to help their lives, they are hurting themselves and others.

Instead of moping in their despair, they should find a way to fix it.

I`m gonna say these and disarm them before people go again on a tangent against Angel.

``Big deal, everybody should die. You wouldn't say anything towards it unless I point out a group ehy? Americans should die. Now, are you angry?``
- Hes not saying HE wants to kill everyone so you can`t claim his opinion invalid because he wouldn`t be hurting anyone with a life choice. So don`t go there

Otherwise hes exactly right. Several people attacked him for his view before but in essence they were betraying their own opinion about not judging people on their decisions. He`s allowed to think that people who drink to solve problems are stupid just as stupid people are allowed to drink to solve their problems.

[che]

You guys have the weirdest, most illogical ways to explain things. I don't even know if you know half the shit you're talking about sometimes.

• Nobody thinks anyone who stays sober is a douche for it. If they do, then they're the douche.
• You aren't better than anyone for being sober. If you think so, you're a douche.
• Some people abuse alcohol and other drugs. Duh.
• People who drink because they have a problem aren't going to find any answers by getting wasted every night. Duh.
• Not everyone who drinks does it because they are depressed or have a problem. You're a douche if you think so.
• Angel of Iniquity or anyone else is entitled to his or her own opinion and can do whatever they want, until it starts involving and or harming other people.

I hope this clears some things up.

[Dan558]

You guys have the weirdest, most illogical ways to explain things. I don't even know if you know half the shit you're talking about sometimes.

• Nobody thinks anyone who stays sober is a douche for it. If they do, then they're the douche.
• You aren't better than anyone for being sober. If you think so, you're a douche.
• Some people abuse alcohol and other drugs. Duh.
• People who drink because they have a problem aren't going to find any answers by getting wasted every night. Duh.
• Not everyone who drinks does it because they are depressed or have a problem. You're a douche if you think so.
• Angel of Iniquity or anyone else is entitled to his or her own opinion and can do whatever they want, until it starts involving and or harming other people.

I hope this clears some things up.

Not sure who you are calling out (but I`m leaning towards Angel and I) but basically Angel stated your 3rd and 4th point and all of a sudden people took it to heart and started blowing it out of proportion.

Basically he stated people who self-medicate with bad drugs (the kind this thread was about) don`t garner much respect from him. Then people started attacking him listing real "good" drugs that solve problems and even silly way off topic ones like endorphins released from the body (water must be a *bad* drug too that Angel was certainly against duhhhhhhh it has a chemical structure)

We get it, people like to drink. We arn`t condemning you to the lowest circle of hell or hunting you down in the night because you choose to drink wildly it was an opinion but people then didn`t like his opinion because it clashed with their own. So then they try to discredit his opinion with wild accusations and exaggerations. You would think he was on trial for murder and had to get 8 lawyers to review his post before he posted his own opinion without it being torn apart for no reason other then its not the same as theirs.

As for my own opinion that may have been lost in this. I drink sometimes, I know it dosn`t solve anything and that's not why I drink but I also don`t think people should drink just because they can. Drink to have a good time once and awhile but being constantly buzzed makes no sense in so many ways to me. When people drink for no reason other then they can that`s when people border on alcoholism IN MY OPINION (please God read that as I know its not the "medical" definition of alcoholism.)

*Please don`t judge me on the bothersome things Angel is doing now, nobodies perfect, that goes for me and him*